Are you anti-religious?

[Undesired Walrus]

I have great respect for religion.

Despite all the battles, all the pointless wars, all the blood spilled, and all the minds tipped on their heads, I see it as a fascinating invention of the Human Race.

I cherry pick many bits from the Koran, Bible, and other and apply them to my life.

I'm not anti-religious at all.

[bjornart]

That's a very black and white poll you've got there. How religious of you.

I voted 'yes', as I felt it was closest to my real opinion, 'somewhat'.

[SusanB-M1]

No, I am not anti-religious, because there is no world-wide organisation, complete with support structures etc; nor will there be for a long time to come. While we wait for worlld-wide Humanism (or whatever they choose to call it) we can only hope that goddidit claims diminish at a faster and faster rate.

I note on the news this morning that a large number of people died at a funeral service in a church which collapsed as a result of the earthquake in Peru. The priest escaped. I wonder what they'll make of that.

[Kahalachan]

I'm anti-cult, not anti-religion.

People always try and equate the two. Membership to a religion is defined by devotion to the ideology. Membership to a cult is defined by devotion to the group.

There's lots more to it than that.

There are strong social pressures in cults which are absent in religion. You can deviate from a religion and branch off and make your own. Been done many times in history. Abandoning a cult comes with harsher consequences from the group.

In many times a church or temple itself can become a cult which is dangerous. Atheists can form cults too.

Isolating the commonalities, I oppose group think and dogmatism. I oppose the suppression of the intellect and our ability and freedom to question. These things are also seen in racist groups or any kind of hate group.

[H3LL]

Deleted because I wrote drivel.

[Mangafranga]

"I'm just not a hateful person." is the planet X option? (i.e. I don't know why it is an alternative to "yes" or "no", so if someone gave that answer I might say, "That's nice. So what is your answer to the question?")

[Ratatoskr]

It's not that I hate religion, it's just that I hate all the monstrosities that are being done in the name of religion.

Numerous wars and murders being ordered in the name of God is a truly terrible thing to think of.

On the other hand, many "rules" that comes from religion are rules that many people should be following, like not to hurt other people, be kind, try to help those in need etc.

[Bikewer]

I don't hate religion, but it's excesses are manifest. Rather, I feel somewhat saddened and frustrated that such a large percentage of humans clings to superstitious nonsense.

[plumjam]

Originally Posted by SusanB-M1

I note on the news this morning that a large number of people died at a funeral service in a church which collapsed as a result of the earthquake in Peru. The priest escaped. I wonder what they'll make of that.

I was wondering how long it would take for a 'humanist' to express their satisfaction at this event.

[T'ai Chi]

I'm still looking for that civilization that doesn't have religion at its center.

Maybe it is in one of those infinite multiverses.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by NorwegianSquirrel

It's not that I hate religion, it's just that I hate all the monstrosities that are being done in the name of religion.

Numerous wars and murders being ordered in the name of God is a truly terrible thing to think of.

Ah, but is not the main phrase here, 'In the name of God'? Is it not just human imperfections flying under the banner of a God? Human imperfections that will always exist?

For example, I am very critical of Qutbism and radical Islam. But I have to ask, more remind myself;

Is there one aspect, one feature, one ideal of that ideology that has not been put into force by a Godless movement in the past?

I struggle to find even one.

[Ratatoskr]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Ah, but is not the main phrase here, 'In the name of God'? Is it not just human imperfections flying under the banner of a God? Human imperfections that will always exist?

For example, I am very critical of Qutbism and radical Islam. But I have to ask, more remind myself;

Is there one aspect, one feature, one ideal of that ideology that has not been put into force by a Godless movement in the past?

I struggle to find even one.

So, how do we know that an action "in the name of God" is based on religion, not just "camouflaged" as a religious act?

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by NorwegianSquirrel

So, how do we know that an action "in the name of God" is based on religion, not just "camouflaged" as a religious act?

Hmmm.. I guess none of us will ever know. Did the pope at the of the crusades have a fantasy about 'God' that made him commit this act? Maybe. Or did he just have a small genital?

It may be too juvinial a metaphor, but often when we stub our foots on doors or chairs, and we have unbearable, unjustified pain, we tend to blame the unthinnking, unemotional chair without a motive, rather than our own human heedlessness and frailties thst led to such a silly accident.

[Ratatoskr]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Hmmm.. I guess none of us will ever know.

I think that's the problem. When we can't decide whether an act is based on religion or something else, how can we blame religion?

[politas]

Originally Posted by NorwegianSquirrel

I think that's the problem. When we can't decide whether an act is based on religion or something else, how can we blame religion?

If religion is used as a justification for a harmful act, then at the very least, the religion is an enabler of harmful acts, and thus has at least some portion of blame.

[Ratatoskr]

Originally Posted by politas

If religion is used as a justification for a harmful act, then at the very least, the religion is an enabler of harmful acts, and thus has at least some portion of blame.

If I believe my cat told me to strangle somebody, it's not my cat who is to blame, is it?

[Civilized Worm]

I hate religion. It frustrates me greatly that in this day and age people still believe in ancient superstitions, and create new ones, with religious superstitions being the most widespread and destructive.

[baron]

I didn't take part in the poll because it's way too polarised and therefore meaningless.

I'm not anti-religious per se. If someone spends time examining evidence and information and from that makes a decision to follow a religion then that's their choice and although I disagree with their conclusion I have no particular objection to them doing so.

What I do find irritating (sometimes infuriating) is how the vast majority appear to embrace religion unconditionally and unthinkingly. They will happily gear their entire lives around something to which they've applied no critical thought whatsoever. They put more thought into what they're going to have for dinner than the belief structure by which they live their lives.

[politas]

Originally Posted by NorwegianSquirrel

If I believe my cat told me to strangle somebody, it's not my cat who is to blame, is it?

Strictly, no. It is your ownership of a cat and what cat ownership means to you that is partly to blame.

However, cats are separate entities, not a set of rules, beliefs and guidelines generally considered to be a source of moral judgment, so the comparison is not entirely apt.

Religions are a set of rules, beliefs and guidelines commonly considered to be a source of moral judgment, so a religion which can be used to justify a harmful act is partly to blame.

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by Civilized Worm

I hate religion. It frustrates me greatly that in this day and age people still believe in ancient superstitions, and create new ones, with religious superstitions being the most widespread and destructive.

Beer can help with this hate. So can unbunching your panties.

DR

[ImaginalDisc]

Good question; bad poll. I'm a mild anti-theist. I think religion should be relegated to the garbage bin of history, and religious beliefs should be mocked, ridiculed, and picked apart until the judgmental, hateful, and power hungry no longer are able to hide behind them. However, I'd never support an effort to make religion illegal, or to legally marginalize religious people in any way.

[RandFan]

Agreed, bad poll. I can't answer.

When I came to this forum I argued passionately that religion is a net good. Now I honestly don't know.

Religion is perhaps human kinds greatest mirror and catalyst. It is profane and vulgar in the worst possible of ways. It is also sublime.

If we could magically get rid of religion tomorrow there would still be war, hatred and all other negative human attributes. Would they be less? I honestly don't know but I suspect so. There would still be charity. Would there be less? I don't know but I suspect so.

In the end, after having intently studied the situation for the last 5 years, I would really prefer to get rid of religion. That's just a personal feeling at the moment subject to change.

[Undesired Walrus]

Alright alright bad poll. I'm crap, you are all great....

On the issue of war, well... it depends does it not?

In the 80's, a christian student at the East London Uni was allegedly murdered by a group of Islamists. Ed Hussain (Who quit radical Islam at the time) heard the crowd shout 'Allah Hu-Akbar' before the student was stabbed. Killed because he disrespected the Islamist who killed him.

Now, If the murderer said years and years later, in jail, 'It wasn't me, it was my religion', wouldn't it be incredibly detrimental to society to go 'He's right! We shouldn't be blaming him! It was his religion!'.

Like a father who hits his child after a stress filled day at work, the man who is to blame is the man.

When a child commits suicide, can the father blame his busy job for not 'listening to my daughters cries for help'?

I really have to accept that it is not Religion who is flawed, but Humanity.

But one thing that really bugs me is people suggesting EVERYTHING in religion is bad and not worthy of attention. When I read a chapter in the Koran once, it really made me think that I sleep in bed at night and wake up in the morning without thinking how much pain and hostility there is in the world at those times. 'Do these people feel safe in the nighttime, when they are sleeping? Do they feel safe, in the daytime?'

[triadboy]

Religion was born in the primitive mind and needs to be phased out. Hopefully all this attention religions are getting now will spell their deathknell.

I hope Xians fascination with moving OT/NT studies out of the church and into a public forum will finally open people's eyes.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

I really have to accept that it is not Religion who is flawed, but Humanity.

Is it flawed philosophically? (no, religion is not monolithic but you get the idea).

Religion is often dogmatic and slow to change. It gives license for much evil in the world. It gives license for people not to think critically.

I don't think you can so easily excuse religion.

[Hokulele]

I went with the "not a hateful person" option. Although I have seen religion used as a shield and excuse for horrible behavior, as mentioned previously, that may be due more to human nature than religion per se. The horrible behavior would continue without the excuse.

The only reason I have never dismissed religion out of hand is that I have met too many people who have had experiences that they found utterly convincing. Please note, I am using this in the broadest definition of religion, and am not talking strictly about "God" or any particular god. One encounter was with a Buddhist monk in Japan talking about his search for enlightenment. Another was with a Christian minister who had a calling from her god. Since I have never had any experiences remotely similar, who am I to judge?

Again, since these experiences cross many different branches of faith, I see them more as an argument against the existence of any one god, but an argument for faith in general. Sure, it may have a biological source (and probably does), but that does not negate the experience, or trivialize the faith that person has.

[Civilized Worm]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

I really have to accept that it is not Religion who is flawed, but Humanity.

I'd argue that religion is one of humanity's flaws.

[Hourglassmemory]

I could very well live in a society without religion. If that makes me anti-religious, then yes I am.
In fact I long for one.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by Civilized Worm

I'd argue that religion is one of humanity's flaws.

But Worm, is not the argument often held, especially in the God Delusion, that when one cherry picks certain parts of the bible such as 'Turn the other cheek', and ignoring the horrific parts such as 'Kill everyone', that proves they do not derive this inspiration of goodness from God, but from their own good conscience, burning in their chest somewhere. If this argument is to be legitmate, would not the exact same be argued for the wicked parts?

I'm afraid that this may be a long-debunked comparison, but what about the Japanese suicide bombers in WW2? They followed no God, but their leader, the physical, living version of a God.An example of Human weakness, rather than the weakness of the book?

I also worry that perhaps I do not hate religion because I went to a Catholic school, with one intelligent priest in particular who was always a good man to me and my family when nobody else was. Bought me my first pint too! I remind myself that it doesn't make it true, but I do feel like I'm crapping all over him when I sometimes think, 'All religion is bad'.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by Hourglassmemory

I could very well live in a society without religion. If that makes me anti-religious, then yes I am.
In fact I long for one.

Sounds a lot like one who longs for a Caliphate...

I also have an objection, that when one sees an intelligent person who believes, we are often to judge that she is intelligent purely through education, science and reason, and perhaps not taking into account that the intelligence may be from the study of the book and the theology of how one exists. When one sees a unitelligent person who believes, we are often to judge they are unintelligent through the study of the book, not by anything else that may have happened in their life.

Taking things by face value does no help.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Religion to me represents ignorance. I realize that is offensive to 95% of the world or however many people believe in deities but were I to say believing in Zeus as the wielder of lightning bolts represented ignorance or believing a witch's curse gave you TB represented ignorance there would be a lot fewer people offended.

It's hard not to be against ignorance.

Edited to add, intelligence and ignorance while sometimes are related, they aren't always.

Edited to add, just this morning channel surfing to check the news to see if the world had yet blown up, I stumbled on some preacher telling people if they were poor, "they took a wrong turn somewhere". He then went on to suggest sending money to his 'church' was a way to gain back the Lord's favor.

[Wheezebucket]

I don't care for religion, no.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by plumjam

I was wondering how long it would take for a 'humanist' to express their satisfaction at this event.

That's a twisted interpretation if I ever saw one.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by NorwegianSquirrel

It's not that I hate religion, ....

I'm not sure "hate" is the equivalent of "anti".

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by triadboy

Religion was born in the primitive mind and needs to be phased out. ....

That's similar to how I view it.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

Religion to me represents ignorance.

Though I'm tempted to agree I find this a bit simplistic. Religion has funded many scientific endeavors. When the results of those endeavors did not conflict with religion then religion embraced the conclusions. Many institutions of higher education were started by religion. My elementary and other schools in third world countries were started and funded by religion.

I can't accept your proposition.

[Hindmost]

Not really anti-religious, I just don't believe in religion. Religion tells you what to think, what to do and NOT to question dogma. I can never agree with anything that tells me to stop thinking. As long as someone's religion doesn't interfere with me, I will accept that person's right to their beliefs.

However, religion is judgemental by its nature and elitist by its nature. Every religious sect thinks they are better than the rest...otherwise they would all meld into one big giant group. I just can't take that attitude seriously.

glenn

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by RandFan

Though I'm tempted to agree I find this a bit simplistic. Religion has funded many scientific endeavors. When the results of those endeavors did not conflict with religion then religion embraced the conclusions. Many institutions of higher education were started by religion. My elementary and other schools in third world countries were started and funded by religion.

I can't accept your proposition.

People were responsible for those things, Rand, not belief in deities.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

People were responsible for those things, Rand, not belief in deities.

Agreed. Hitchens makes an excellent argument in your defense. One that I agree with (to a large degree).

The problem that you are missing is that religion is a catalyst and the aspects of religion that facilitate religious evil also come to bear for advancing understanding.

You can't really have it both ways. You can argue that religion is a net evil or that it facilitates more ignorance than understanding but not one to the exclusion of the other.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by RandFan

Agreed. Hitchens makes an excellent argument in your defense. One that I agree with (to a large degree).

The problem that you are missing is that religion is a catalyst and the aspects of religion that facilitate religious evil also come to bear for advancing understanding.

You can't really have it both ways. You can argue that religion is a net evil or that it facilitates more ignorance than understanding but not one to the exclusion of the other.

Sure I can have it both ways. Religion is a reflection of culture. We have good people and bad people with most in between. If people didn't have organizations built around beliefs, there would just be more built around all sorts of other common interests.

What I think needs to go are the magical beliefs. Like Triadboy put it, I view beliefs in gods as a part of human sociocultural development. Once we grow up, we'll figure out it was childish to believe in gods.