How come naming your baby is not child abuse?

Undesired Walrus · 24th August 2007, 02:56 PM

It seems to me, that going by the logic of calling your baby, 'A Muslim baby' or a 'Christian baby', giving him a name that is the sole signifier of what he/she is, is surely child abuse?

A person can always fall out with religion, they don't have to sign documents to be free of it.

A person has to do documents to change their name, and if they have a surname changed, they have to feel guilty because of their parents??

quixotecoyote · 24th August 2007, 02:59 PM

I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you.

I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something.

Skeptical Greg · 24th August 2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you.

I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something.

Wouldn't that be confusing to have all these kids running around named Something ?

Mid · 24th August 2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Diogenes

Wouldn't that be confusing to have all these kids running around named Something ?

How about child 1, 2 etc. Also when child 1 picks a name child 2 could become child 1 so they would feel a bit special too

skeptifem · 24th August 2007, 03:17 PM

i do feel that saying a kid is a certain religion is incorrect- though not abusive. so i dont think its quite the same.

Safe-Keeper · 24th August 2007, 03:36 PM

While I realize the OP was probably sarcasm, he's not far off. I think it could actually be a good idea to give kids generic first names based on certain attributes and conditions (the way Icelanders give their kids last names based on set rules), for then to have them choose their own names come their coming of age. I wouldn't dislike it at all.

The only problem is that when your coming of age comes around, you've usually gotten used to your name to the degree where you want to just hold on to it. I've always been keen on changing names from Øyvind to Odin (an actual Norwegian name - 1 100 Norsemen currently are named Odin), but never wanted it enough to discard my current name. If I didn't have a real name to begin with, just a placeholder name, it'd have been a lot easier.

So yes, the idea has merit.

Quote:

A person has to do documents to change their name, and if they have a surname changed, they have to feel guilty because of their parents??

This holds true for religion, too. First of all, certain organized religions can be hard to leave. Certain churches require you to write a written statement explaining why you're no longer believing in their version of whatever mythology they adhere to, and that's nothing compared to the Icelandic state church, which is supposedly a nightmare to get out of without drowning in bureaucracy (sp.?). There's a reason why more than 80% of Icelanders are members of the State Lutheran Church even though religion in the country is virtually gone.

And quite often, quitting a certain faith can be very troublesome if you have parents who are ardent believers. So no difference there.

Ryokan · 24th August 2007, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

A person can always fall out with religion, they don't have to sign documents to be free of it.

I did.

I have a piece of paper, signed by the local pastor, as proof that I'm not a Christian. Wish I had a scanner so I could show it.

Tricky · 24th August 2007, 04:20 PM

Don't be silly. According to a prominant Danish skeptic who has never been proved wrong, newborn babies are atheist.

Ryokan · 24th August 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Don't be silly. According to a prominant Danish skeptic who has never been proved wrong, newborn babies are atheist.

Not in Norway they aren't, and I have a piece of paper that proves that as well

ETA:

The pieces of paper I'm talking about is 1) a certificate that shows I have renounced my membership of the state church, signed by the local pastor and 2) a baptism certificate, used as evidence that I exist, also signed by the local pastor.

DanishDynamite · 24th August 2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ryokan

Not in Norway they aren't, and I have a piece of paper that proves that as well

I'm curious. What paper are you refering to?

Ryokan · 24th August 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

I'm curious. What paper are you refering to?

See my edit above.

Tearout · 24th August 2007, 04:45 PM

Names are also associated with ethnic background and gender. Some people may find that objectionable as well.

Perhaps a neutral system of serial numbers would be more functional.

DanishDynamite · 24th August 2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ryokan

See my edit above.

Ok, but those pieces of paper only say something about the influence of the state religion in the issuance of certain state documents, and nothing about whether you were born an atheist or not.

Ryokan · 24th August 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by DanishDynamite

Ok, but those pieces of paper only say something about the influence of the state religion in the issuance of certain state documents, and nothing about whether you were born an atheist or not.

Of course. I wasn't being entirely serious. Although my baptism certificate does say I was a Christian a short time after I was born.

I only keep that paper around because, if you lose all forms of identification, you can use it and a family member to get a new one.

slingblade · 24th August 2007, 10:14 PM

Too busy to post a linky, but I just read an article about stupid names being illegal in at least one other country...and if you try to name your kid something outrageous* here in the U.S., you can, sometimes, be made to change it.

Sorry, it's horrible, but all I have at the moment is that I've read of such incidents in the news. I'll try to get articles.

EVIDENCES?!?!

(*outrageous being solely someone's opinion, who has the power to make that opinion matter.)

articulett · 24th August 2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you.

I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something.

I remember names I liked from The Cat and The Hat--

"Thing One" and "Thing Two"
(not to mention "Sam I am")

Foster Zygote · 24th August 2007, 10:36 PM

It aint abuse unless you name a boy "Sue".

Wolfman · 24th August 2007, 10:55 PM

In the past in China, there actually was a tendency to refer to children simply as "first son", "second daughter", etc. This was even more common with female children, some of whom might never have a name (or at least not one that was used)...they'd simply change from being called "third daughter" to "second wife".

And just last week, the newspapers printed a story about a Chinese couple who want to name their child "@". The Chinese gov't has actually restricted legal names to a specific set of Chinese characters, and excluded almost everything else, but had failed to specifically exclude certain characters on the standard keyboard.

Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this.

quixotecoyote · 24th August 2007, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfman

In the past in China, there actually was a tendency to refer to children simply as "first son", "second daughter", etc. This was even more common with female children, some of whom might never have a name (or at least not one that was used)...they'd simply change from being called "third daughter" to "second wife".

And just last week, the newspapers printed a story about a Chinese couple who want to name their child "@". The Chinese gov't has actually restricted legal names to a specific set of Chinese characters, and excluded almost everything else, but had failed to specifically exclude certain characters on the standard keyboard.

Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this.

See, I thought about mentioning China as I had a half-remembered concept of 'milk-names', but when i checked wikipedia, it told me that after a short period with a temporary name the permanent name was chosen by the parents and grandparents.

Wolfman · 24th August 2007, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

See, I thought about mentioning China as I had a half-remembered concept of 'milk-names', but when i checked wikipedia, it told me that after a short period with a temporary name the permanent name was chosen by the parents and grandparents.

In pre-Communist China, parents would choose names for all their children, but often (particularly in the case of female children) not use them. I have Chinese friends whose grandmother passed away three years ago. It wasn't until she died that they realized that nobody in the family -- her children, her grandchildren, or even her own husband -- knew what her name was.

In modern China, that is no longer the case. But it is relatively common for a person to have two or three names that are used by different people. One will be the name used by family members and close friends; another used with the general public; another the name they choose for themselves when they become adults; etc.

Giraffe107 · 25th August 2007, 12:50 AM

I actually think the German policy of only being able to name your child a name out of an official 'name book' is a good idea. There are too many kids called ridiculous things, like 'Kangaroo Starship Trooper' (yes a real name), 'Anzac Day' (yes another real name) or anything celebrities call their kids nowadays. This in my opinion child abuse.

skeptifem · 25th August 2007, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Giraffe107

I actually think the German policy of only being able to name your child a name out of an official 'name book' is a good idea. There are too many kids called ridiculous things, like 'Kangaroo Starship Trooper' (yes a real name), 'Anzac Day' (yes another real name) or anything celebrities call their kids nowadays. This in my opinion child abuse.

who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse.

Undesired Walrus · 25th August 2007, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by nails3jesus0

who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse.

why not?

bjornart · 25th August 2007, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by nails3jesus0

who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse.

Even if someone named their baby girl from the list of banned words refering to the female genitalia?

Big Les · 25th August 2007, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

It aint abuse unless you name a boy "Sue".

For what it's worth, I object to both my biblical given name, and the fact that I was baptised.

Mostly because both my parents were atheists...

Go figure.

hgc · 25th August 2007, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

How about child 1, 2 etc. Also when child 1 picks a name child 2 could become child 1 so they would feel a bit special too

Child 1, meet Logan 5.

baron · 25th August 2007, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

It aint abuse unless you name a boy "Sue".

Or Shirley - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Crabtree

Scott Haley · 25th August 2007, 10:50 AM

I've read about court cases in France and New Zealand in which parents were denied the right to give their children weird names. In France they like people to name their kids after Roman Catholic saints, if the parents are of Christian descent. A couple was denied the right to name their child "Zebedee," a biblical name, but not, I assume, a saint recognized by the Roman Catholic church.

Pat and Sheena Wheaton of New Zealand wanted to name their son "4real" (spelled like that) but were denied that by the courts, and plan B is to name their son "Superman." I don't know whether the courts will allow that one.

--Scott

TragicMonkey · 25th August 2007, 10:57 AM

People should be able to name their kid whatever they want.

And the kid should be able to change his name to whatever he wants.

So if crazy parents name their kid Zebedee Harmonicus Sunshine, he can change it to Edward Andrew Blake. And if boring parents name their kid Mary Margaret Jones she can change it to Xanthella Pikachu Sycorax.

I do not like the idea of the government telling the people what are acceptable names.

galnoir · 25th August 2007, 01:25 PM

Was it last year that a couple wanted to name their baby Espn, since that was their favorite network?

My husband then suggested we name our yet-unborn child PeBuS.

BlackCat · 25th August 2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this.

Ha ha, this is awesome. I changed my name when I was 18. (From a very common name to a less common one, because I hated its commonness.) Although I'm in the US, I can relate to parents getting upset. My father never quite got over my name change (although I have other problems with him), but my mother accepted it quite readily, and even commented that she wished she had my courage, because she, too, hates her name.

I think more people should change their name if they want to. For me, it was empowering to do so, although I admit bias because I hated my given name.

Orphia Nay · 25th August 2007, 09:57 PM

Some people round these parts named their boys "Archibald" and "Messiah". That always makes me chuckle. I hope the boys do too.

This Guy · 27th August 2007, 07:19 AM

I think George Foreman had the right idea. Just name them all the same thing. Don't have to worry about calling one the wrong one's name then!

"Oh and yes, the boys are all named George. There is: George Jr., George III, George IV, George V, George VI"

I know my Mom would run down the list until she hit the right name when yelling at us.

I was Tommy.., Bill.., Mike! She rarely called me Ruth, thankfully.

Flo · 27th August 2007, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Scott Haley

I've read about court cases in France and New Zealand in which parents were denied the right to give their children weird names. In France they like people to name their kids after Roman Catholic saints, if the parents are of Christian descent. A couple was denied the right to name their child "Zebedee," a biblical name, but not, I assume, a saint recognized by the Roman Catholic church.

Pat and Sheena Wheaton of New Zealand wanted to name their son "4real" (spelled like that) but were denied that by the courts, and plan B is to name their son "Superman." I don't know whether the courts will allow that one.

--Scott

In France, the law has been changed in 1993 (law n° 93-22 of 8 January 1993) and there's no limitation to the names that can be chosen by the parents. However, should this name be considered contrary to the interests of the child (typically a name that can reasonnably be expected to lead to ridicule, rude puns, or association with a particularly horrible criminal, etc.), the official in charge of registering births declarations can signal it to the state prosecutor who can then contest the parents' choice into court.

In most of the very obvious cases ("Hitler", father so clearly drunk that he doesn't realise the joke isn't that funny and he'll regret it the next day, etc.),
the court will force a change of name, if it goes that far. In less clear cases (old biblical names, strange-foreign-sounding names), parents are mostly allowed to go on.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 27th August 2007, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

People should be able to name their kid whatever they want.

And the kid should be able to change his name to whatever he wants.

So if crazy parents name their kid Zebedee Harmonicus Sunshine, he can change it to Edward Andrew Blake. And if boring parents name their kid Mary Margaret Jones she can change it to Xanthella Pikachu Sycorax.

I do not like the idea of the government telling the people what are acceptable names.

QFT

Damien Evans · 27th August 2007, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

QFT

QFT?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 27th August 2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

QFT?

Quoted For Truth; see also Quoted For Emphasis (QFE). Not to be confused with QED.

Blue Mountain · 27th August 2007, 09:04 AM

Then there's Ian Donald Calvin Euclid Zappa, who was registered under that name when the registrar refused to accept the oneFrank and Gail wanted to give him. At about age seven, the boy discovered the name by which he had been known all his life wasn't his legal name, so his Dad hired an attorney to have it legally changed to Dweezil.

bjornart · 27th August 2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade

Quoted For Truth; see also Quoted For Emphasis (QFE). Not to be confused with QED.

"me too" to good for you, huh?

Arkan_Wolfshade · 27th August 2007, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by bjornart

"me too" to good for you, huh?

[AOL]
ME TOO!
[/AOL]

24th August 2007, 02:56 PM	#1
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,893	How come naming your baby is not child abuse? It seems to me, that going by the logic of calling your baby, 'A Muslim baby' or a 'Christian baby', giving him a name that is the sole signifier of what he/she is, is surely child abuse? A person can always fall out with religion, they don't have to sign documents to be free of it. A person has to do documents to change their name, and if they have a surname changed, they have to feel guilty because of their parents??

24th August 2007, 02:59 PM	#2
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you. I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

24th August 2007, 03:03 PM	#3
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you. I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something. Wouldn't that be confusing to have all these kids running around named Something ?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

24th August 2007, 03:07 PM	#4
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805	Originally Posted by Diogenes Wouldn't that be confusing to have all these kids running around named Something ? How about child 1, 2 etc. Also when child 1 picks a name child 2 could become child 1 so they would feel a bit special too
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805

24th August 2007, 03:17 PM	#5
skeptifem is not beauty 2K compliant Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,259	i do feel that saying a kid is a certain religion is incorrect- though not abusive. so i dont think its quite the same.
	__________________

24th August 2007, 03:36 PM	#6
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,121	While I realize the OP was probably sarcasm, he's not far off. I think it could actually be a good idea to give kids generic first names based on certain attributes and conditions (the way Icelanders give their kids last names based on set rules), for then to have them choose their own names come their coming of age. I wouldn't dislike it at all. The only problem is that when your coming of age comes around, you've usually gotten used to your name to the degree where you want to just hold on to it. I've always been keen on changing names from Øyvind to Odin (an actual Norwegian name - 1 100 Norsemen currently are named Odin), but never wanted it enough to discard my current name. If I didn't have a real name to begin with, just a placeholder name, it'd have been a lot easier. So yes, the idea has merit. Quote: A person has to do documents to change their name, and if they have a surname changed, they have to feel guilty because of their parents?? This holds true for religion, too. First of all, certain organized religions can be hard to leave. Certain churches require you to write a written statement explaining why you're no longer believing in their version of whatever mythology they adhere to, and that's nothing compared to the Icelandic state church, which is supposedly a nightmare to get out of without drowning in bureaucracy (sp.?). There's a reason why more than 80% of Icelanders are members of the State Lutheran Church even though religion in the country is virtually gone. And quite often, quitting a certain faith can be very troublesome if you have parents who are ardent believers. So no difference there.
	Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 24th August 2007 at 03:42 PM.

24th August 2007, 04:14 PM	#7
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus A person can always fall out with religion, they don't have to sign documents to be free of it. I did. I have a piece of paper, signed by the local pastor, as proof that I'm not a Christian. Wish I had a scanner so I could show it.

24th August 2007, 04:20 PM	#8
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Don't be silly. According to a prominant Danish skeptic who has never been proved wrong, newborn babies are atheist.

24th August 2007, 04:28 PM	#9
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by Tricky Don't be silly. According to a prominant Danish skeptic who has never been proved wrong, newborn babies are atheist. Not in Norway they aren't, and I have a piece of paper that proves that as well ETA: The pieces of paper I'm talking about is 1) a certificate that shows I have renounced my membership of the state church, signed by the local pastor and 2) a baptism certificate, used as evidence that I exist, also signed by the local pastor.
	Last edited by Ryokan; 24th August 2007 at 04:33 PM.

24th August 2007, 04:31 PM	#10
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the cold Posts: 10,802	Originally Posted by Ryokan Not in Norway they aren't, and I have a piece of paper that proves that as well I'm curious. What paper are you refering to?

24th August 2007, 04:35 PM	#11
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by DanishDynamite I'm curious. What paper are you refering to? See my edit above.

24th August 2007, 04:45 PM	#12
Tearout New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 24	Names are also associated with ethnic background and gender. Some people may find that objectionable as well. Perhaps a neutral system of serial numbers would be more functional.
Tearout New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 24

24th August 2007, 04:49 PM	#13
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the cold Posts: 10,802	Originally Posted by Ryokan See my edit above. Ok, but those pieces of paper only say something about the influence of the state religion in the issuance of certain state documents, and nothing about whether you were born an atheist or not.

24th August 2007, 04:54 PM	#14
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by DanishDynamite Ok, but those pieces of paper only say something about the influence of the state religion in the issuance of certain state documents, and nothing about whether you were born an atheist or not. Of course. I wasn't being entirely serious. Although my baptism certificate does say I was a Christian a short time after I was born. I only keep that paper around because, if you lose all forms of identification, you can use it and a family member to get a new one.

24th August 2007, 10:14 PM	#15
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Too busy to post a linky, but I just read an article about stupid names being illegal in at least one other country...and if you try to name your kid something outrageous* here in the U.S., you can, sometimes, be made to change it. Sorry, it's horrible, but all I have at the moment is that I've read of such incidents in the news. I'll try to get articles. EVIDENCES?!?! (*outrageous being solely someone's opinion, who has the power to make that opinion matter.)
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

24th August 2007, 10:29 PM	#16
articulett Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV (and the ethers of cyberspace) Posts: 15,786	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'd actually agree with you. I'd think it would be healthy if a name change was a part of the coming-of-age process. In the meantime, you have to call them something. I remember names I liked from The Cat and The Hat-- "Thing One" and "Thing Two" (not to mention "Sam I am")

24th August 2007, 10:55 PM	#18
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,811	In the past in China, there actually was a tendency to refer to children simply as "first son", "second daughter", etc. This was even more common with female children, some of whom might never have a name (or at least not one that was used)...they'd simply change from being called "third daughter" to "second wife". And just last week, the newspapers printed a story about a Chinese couple who want to name their child "@". The Chinese gov't has actually restricted legal names to a specific set of Chinese characters, and excluded almost everything else, but had failed to specifically exclude certain characters on the standard keyboard. Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

24th August 2007, 11:30 PM	#19
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by Wolfman In the past in China, there actually was a tendency to refer to children simply as "first son", "second daughter", etc. This was even more common with female children, some of whom might never have a name (or at least not one that was used)...they'd simply change from being called "third daughter" to "second wife". And just last week, the newspapers printed a story about a Chinese couple who want to name their child "@". The Chinese gov't has actually restricted legal names to a specific set of Chinese characters, and excluded almost everything else, but had failed to specifically exclude certain characters on the standard keyboard. Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this. See, I thought about mentioning China as I had a half-remembered concept of 'milk-names', but when i checked wikipedia, it told me that after a short period with a temporary name the permanent name was chosen by the parents and grandparents.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

24th August 2007, 11:41 PM	#20
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,811	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote See, I thought about mentioning China as I had a half-remembered concept of 'milk-names', but when i checked wikipedia, it told me that after a short period with a temporary name the permanent name was chosen by the parents and grandparents. In pre-Communist China, parents would choose names for all their children, but often (particularly in the case of female children) not use them. I have Chinese friends whose grandmother passed away three years ago. It wasn't until she died that they realized that nobody in the family -- her children, her grandchildren, or even her own husband -- knew what her name was. In modern China, that is no longer the case. But it is relatively common for a person to have two or three names that are used by different people. One will be the name used by family members and close friends; another used with the general public; another the name they choose for themselves when they become adults; etc.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

25th August 2007, 12:50 AM	#21
Giraffe107 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,339	I actually think the German policy of only being able to name your child a name out of an official 'name book' is a good idea. There are too many kids called ridiculous things, like 'Kangaroo Starship Trooper' (yes a real name), 'Anzac Day' (yes another real name) or anything celebrities call their kids nowadays. This in my opinion child abuse.

25th August 2007, 01:58 AM	#22
skeptifem is not beauty 2K compliant Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,259	Originally Posted by Giraffe107 I actually think the German policy of only being able to name your child a name out of an official 'name book' is a good idea. There are too many kids called ridiculous things, like 'Kangaroo Starship Trooper' (yes a real name), 'Anzac Day' (yes another real name) or anything celebrities call their kids nowadays. This in my opinion child abuse. who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse.
	__________________

25th August 2007, 02:36 AM	#23
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,893	Originally Posted by nails3jesus0 who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse. why not?

25th August 2007, 03:19 AM	#24
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,397	Originally Posted by nails3jesus0 who cares what other people name their kids?? there is no way that could ever be child abuse. Even if someone named their baby girl from the list of banned words refering to the female genitalia?
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,397	__________________ Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams

25th August 2007, 04:23 AM	#25
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote It aint abuse unless you name a boy "Sue". For what it's worth, I object to both my biblical given name, and the fact that I was baptised. Mostly because both my parents were atheists... Go figure.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

25th August 2007, 06:20 AM	#27
baron Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hill Posts: 1,910	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote It aint abuse unless you name a boy "Sue". Or Shirley - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Crabtree
	__________________

25th August 2007, 10:50 AM	#28
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562	I've read about court cases in France and New Zealand in which parents were denied the right to give their children weird names. In France they like people to name their kids after Roman Catholic saints, if the parents are of Christian descent. A couple was denied the right to name their child "Zebedee," a biblical name, but not, I assume, a saint recognized by the Roman Catholic church. Pat and Sheena Wheaton of New Zealand wanted to name their son "4real" (spelled like that) but were denied that by the courts, and plan B is to name their son "Superman." I don't know whether the courts will allow that one. --Scott
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562

25th August 2007, 10:57 AM	#29
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,112	People should be able to name their kid whatever they want. And the kid should be able to change his name to whatever he wants. So if crazy parents name their kid Zebedee Harmonicus Sunshine, he can change it to Edward Andrew Blake. And if boring parents name their kid Mary Margaret Jones she can change it to Xanthella Pikachu Sycorax. I do not like the idea of the government telling the people what are acceptable names.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

25th August 2007, 01:25 PM	#30
galnoir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12	Was it last year that a couple wanted to name their baby Espn, since that was their favorite network? My husband then suggested we name our yet-unborn child PeBuS.
galnoir New Blood Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12

25th August 2007, 03:27 PM	#31
BlackCat Notorious Path Crosser Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 368	Originally Posted by Wolfman Anyway, in modern China it is quite common for Chinese to change their names when they reach adulthood. They'll generally retain their family name, but will choose a given name that they feel is more suitable to their situation and/or their goals. And whereas in a country like Canada, where parents might get upset over their children changing their names (seeing it as a form of rejection and/or rebellion), in China there is usually little fuss about this. Ha ha, this is awesome. I changed my name when I was 18. (From a very common name to a less common one, because I hated its commonness.) Although I'm in the US, I can relate to parents getting upset. My father never quite got over my name change (although I have other problems with him), but my mother accepted it quite readily, and even commented that she wished she had my courage, because she, too, hates her name. I think more people should change their name if they want to. For me, it was empowering to do so, although I admit bias because I hated my given name.
	__________________ We are star stuff which has taken its own destiny into its hands. -Carl Sagan I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -Stephen Roberts

25th August 2007, 09:57 PM	#32
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,420	Some people round these parts named their boys "Archibald" and "Messiah". That always makes me chuckle. I hope the boys do too.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

27th August 2007, 07:19 AM	#33
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	I think George Foreman had the right idea. Just name them all the same thing. Don't have to worry about calling one the wrong one's name then! "Oh and yes, the boys are all named George. There is: George Jr., George III, George IV, George V, George VI" I know my Mom would run down the list until she hit the right name when yelling at us. I was Tommy.., Bill.., Mike! She rarely called me Ruth, thankfully.
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

27th August 2007, 07:51 AM	#34
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,813	Originally Posted by Scott Haley I've read about court cases in France and New Zealand in which parents were denied the right to give their children weird names. In France they like people to name their kids after Roman Catholic saints, if the parents are of Christian descent. A couple was denied the right to name their child "Zebedee," a biblical name, but not, I assume, a saint recognized by the Roman Catholic church. Pat and Sheena Wheaton of New Zealand wanted to name their son "4real" (spelled like that) but were denied that by the courts, and plan B is to name their son "Superman." I don't know whether the courts will allow that one. --Scott In France, the law has been changed in 1993 (law n° 93-22 of 8 January 1993) and there's no limitation to the names that can be chosen by the parents. However, should this name be considered contrary to the interests of the child (typically a name that can reasonnably be expected to lead to ridicule, rude puns, or association with a particularly horrible criminal, etc.), the official in charge of registering births declarations can signal it to the state prosecutor who can then contest the parents' choice into court. In most of the very obvious cases ("Hitler", father so clearly drunk that he doesn't realise the joke isn't that funny and he'll regret it the next day, etc.), the court will force a change of name, if it goes that far. In less clear cases (old biblical names, strange-foreign-sounding names), parents are mostly allowed to go on.
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

27th August 2007, 08:17 AM	#35
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey People should be able to name their kid whatever they want. And the kid should be able to change his name to whatever he wants. So if crazy parents name their kid Zebedee Harmonicus Sunshine, he can change it to Edward Andrew Blake. And if boring parents name their kid Mary Margaret Jones she can change it to Xanthella Pikachu Sycorax. I do not like the idea of the government telling the people what are acceptable names. QFT
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

27th August 2007, 08:30 AM	#36
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,310	Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade QFT QFT?
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

27th August 2007, 08:40 AM	#37
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by Damien Evans QFT? Quoted For Truth; see also Quoted For Emphasis (QFE). Not to be confused with QED.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.