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Tags missing persons , norm pratt , psychic detectives , psychics

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Old 22nd August 2007, 12:16 PM   #1
Hardenbergh
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This story is about a psychic who was consulted after exhausting the efforts of a search party. The article is over two years old but I think it's typical of news stories where a psychic was consulted to assist authorities.


Quote:
Psychic helps B.C. police find hiker's body
Thursday, January 27, 2005 | 12:12 PM ET
CBC News

Police in Nelson, B.C., have found the body of a young woman who disappeared last March, and they credit a local psychic for pointing them in the right direction. Kimberley Anne Sarjeant was last seen walking alone in a popular hiking spot near Nelson.

Police say they used every tool at their disposal to try to find her, including search dogs, helicopters and infrared heat detectors.

When none of the standard techniques seemed to work, Sgt. Steve Bank called on a local psychic for help.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ody050127.html

He has also been a guest on Coast to Coast AM:

Quote:
Psychic Norm Pratt assissted police in Nelson, B.C., leading them to the body of a young woman who had been missing for 10 months. Mr. Pratt lives in a rural area south of Nelson and has worked on a number of missing person and homicide cases in British Columbia.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/914.html


Quote:
Psychic Detective
In the 1st half-hour, psychic intuitive Norm Pratt shared details of how he helped locate the missing body of a young woman in British Columbia. He said he walked in the woods near where he lives and began receiving impressions about the woman which he thought might be accurate.

He subsequently checked with the police in Nelson, B.C. and found that his information matched unreleased data about the case. In an ongoing process of working with the police, his visions eventually led to the discovery of her clothes and remains.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/01/27.html

http://www.normpratt.com/

I just found a thread about Norm Pratt:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34112

Last edited by Hardenbergh; 22nd August 2007 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 22nd August 2007, 06:19 PM   #2
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Hardenbergh View Post
This story is about a psychic who was consulted after exhausting the efforts of a search party. The article is over two years old but I think it's typical of news stories where a psychic was consulted to assist authorities.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ody050127.html

He has also been a guest on Coast to Coast AM:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/914.html

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/01/27.html

http://www.normpratt.com/

I just found a thread about Norm Pratt:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34112
Has anyone debunked Norm Pratt?
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Old 23rd August 2007, 01:40 AM   #3
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Just done a quick search using Google on Norm Pratt.
1. Could only find one case where he could claim success and that has been mentioned.
2. If he was any good where are the other cases? Nothing is mentioned about any cases on his web site.
3. Found one case where he has not been successful Lisa Marie
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Old 23rd August 2007, 06:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hardenbergh View Post
This story is about a psychic who was consulted after exhausting the efforts of a search party. The article is over two years old but I think it's typical of news stories where a psychic was consulted to assist authorities.




http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ody050127.html

He has also been a guest on Coast to Coast AM:



http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guests/914.html




http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/01/27.html

http://www.normpratt.com/

I just found a thread about Norm Pratt:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34112

The body was found 1km away from where she was last seen. Hardly a paranormal occurance.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 06:41 PM   #5
Rodney
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
The body was found 1km away from where she was last seen. Hardly a paranormal occurance.
So why couldn't the police solve the case on their own?
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Old 24th August 2007, 06:16 AM   #6
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The police apparently did discover the body on their own.

Quote:
Police had already searched along an abandoned railway line where the 23-year-old woman was last seen.

But local psychic Norm Pratt steered police away from that trail. About a kilometre into nearby woods, police found Sarjeant's clothes. Her remains were discovered in the same area.
According to the article, all Pratt did was tell them not to search where they were currently searching (where they had apparently already searched and turned up nothing).

-Bri
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Old 24th August 2007, 07:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
The police apparently did discover the body on their own.



According to the article, all Pratt did was tell them not to search where they were currently searching (where they had apparently already searched and turned up nothing).

-Bri
The article didn't say that police had already searched the area where she was found. It said that they had searched the railway line where she was last seen. It didn't really indicate whether the police had searched other surrounding areas but it would seem logical that if the police had already searched the area in which her body was found, the reporter would have mentioned it in the article. It would say something like, "The police had combed the area where the body was found but their first attempt to locate the body had revealed nothing." I don't think I would leave out that detail if I was the reporter.

It doesn't sound like he's in it for the money according to his website:

Quote:
Private sessions can be done in person or over the telephone. The fee is $100 for a minimum of one hour. Fees may be flexible under conditions of financial hardship.
http://www.normpratt.com/sessions/

Last edited by Hardenbergh; 24th August 2007 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 24th August 2007, 09:55 AM   #8
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Hardenbergh View Post
The article didn't say that police had already searched the area where she was found. It said that they had searched the railway line where she was last seen. It didn't really indicate whether the police had searched other surrounding areas but it would seem logical that if the police had already searched the area in which her body was found, the reporter would have mentioned it in the article. It would say something like, "The police had combed the area where the body was found but their first attempt to locate the body had revealed nothing." I don't think I would leave out that detail if I was the reporter.
I think the bottom line here is that the police would not have called in a psychic if they thought there was a good chance they would have found the body on their own.
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Old 24th August 2007, 01:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
I think the bottom line here is that the police would not have called in a psychic if they thought there was a good chance they would have found the body on their own.
I don't think that necessarily follows at all. Police are often in position where a case hits a standstill but they still need to assure the public they're doing everything they can to solve it. So they might call in a psychic to give the impression they're willing to try anything, however remote the chances of success. Or they might be trying to shut up the segment of the public that supports psychic detectives. Or they might even be trying to flush out a suspect who might believe in psychics and therefore be scared into making a false move. From what I've read, most law enforcement professionals don't seem to place a lot of faith in psychics.
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Old 24th August 2007, 01:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
I think the bottom line here is that the police would not have called in a psychic if they thought there was a good chance they would have found the body on their own.
How, exactly, do you arrive at that conclusion?
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Old 24th August 2007, 04:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tsg View Post
How, exactly, do you arrive at that conclusion?
The police would prefer to solve crimes on their own, and not with the help of psychics. If they call in a psychic when they have a good chance of solving a crime without one, the psychic will likely receive credit if the crime is solved, which makes the police look less than competent. Also, a psychic being credited with solving a crime will likely result in a public clamor for that psychic to be used again which -- if the psychic is worthless -- will create an unnecessary headache for the police.
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Old 25th August 2007, 12:39 PM   #12
Bri
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Originally Posted by Hardenbergh View Post
The article didn't say that police had already searched the area where she was found.
I didn't say it did.

What I said was that the article does not indicate that Pratt ever told the police to search where the body was finally found. The only thing the article states Pratt actually did was tell them to STOP looking where they had already looked! Well -- duh!

Quote:
It didn't really indicate whether the police had searched other surrounding areas but it would seem logical that if the police had already searched the area in which her body was found, the reporter would have mentioned it in the article.
Exactly my point. All Pratt did was tell the police not to search where they had already searched and not found anything. Again -- duh!

I imagine the following conversation:

pratt: Haven't you already searched along the railway?
police: Yes.
pratt: Did you find anything?
police: No.
pratt: Why not try searching somewhere else?
police: Now why didn't we think of that?
The article doesn't indicate that Pratt told them where to look at all. I would think that would be a detail that would have been reported if he had. So, the article actually doesn't indicate that Pratt was of any help at all other than to tell police not to look where they had already looked (which I'm guessing they might have figured out on their own).

Quote:
It doesn't sound like he's in it for the money according to his website
I wouldn't think you'd want your website to sound like you're in it for the money, particularly if you're in it for the money. He's in it for the money.

-Bri

Last edited by Bri; 25th August 2007 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 25th August 2007, 12:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
The article doesn't indicate that Pratt told them where to look at all. I would think that would be a detail that would have been reported if he had. So, the article actually doesn't indicate that Pratt was of any help at all other than to tell police not to look where they had already looked (which I'm guessing they might have figured out on their own).
According to the article:

"Police in Nelson, B.C., have found the body of a young woman who disappeared last March, and they credit a local psychic for pointing them in the right direction. Kimberley Anne Sarjeant was last seen walking alone in a popular hiking spot near Nelson.

"Police say they used every tool at their disposal to try to find her, including search dogs, helicopters and infrared heat detectors.

"When none of the standard techniques seemed to work, Sgt. Steve Bank called on a local psychic for help.

"Police had already searched along an abandoned railway line where the 23-year-old woman was last seen.

"But local psychic Norm Pratt steered police away from that trail. About a kilometre into nearby woods, police found Sarjeant's clothes. Her remains were discovered in the same area.

"'Without the use of the psychic, I think I'd still be looking for this person,' Bank said Wednesday."

Originally Posted by Bri View Post
I wouldn't think you'd want your website to sound like you're in it for the money, particularly if you're in it for the money. He's in it for the money.-Bri
It doesn't matter whether he is or isn't. The fact is that, according to Sgt. Bank, the case was solved because of Pratt's involvement.
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Old 25th August 2007, 01:36 PM   #14
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
According to the article:

<quote of the majority of the article deleted>

"'Without the use of the psychic, I think I'd still be looking for this person,' Bank said Wednesday."
I read the article. Nowhere does it say that Pratt did anything other than tell police to stop looking where they had already (unsuccessfully) looked.

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether he is or isn't. The fact is that, according to Sgt. Bank, the case was solved because of Pratt's involvement.
Without more details, it is unclear whether the case was solved because of Pratt's involvement, or whether Sgt. Bank simply attributes the case being solved to Pratt's involvement. It is also very unclear that Pratt did anything at all "psychic" to help solve the crime; rather, it sounds like he offered some sound but rather obvious advice to stop looking where they had already looked.

Perhaps Sgt. Bank believes in psychics and decided to involve Pratt against the advice of others, and then felt compelled to justify his decision. Perhaps Sgt. Bank believes that the police would have continued to search the same locations over and over again rather than looking elsewhere without Pratt's suggestion.

It seems like if Pratt actually did something psychic to help solve the crime, the article (or Sgt. Bank) would have mentioned it.

-Bri
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Old 25th August 2007, 03:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
I read the article. Nowhere does it say that Pratt did anything other than tell police to stop looking where they had already (unsuccessfully) looked.

Without more details, it is unclear whether the case was solved because of Pratt's involvement, or whether Sgt. Bank simply attributes the case being solved to Pratt's involvement. It is also very unclear that Pratt did anything at all "psychic" to help solve the crime; rather, it sounds like he offered some sound but rather obvious advice to stop looking where they had already looked.

Perhaps Sgt. Bank believes in psychics and decided to involve Pratt against the advice of others, and then felt compelled to justify his decision. Perhaps Sgt. Bank believes that the police would have continued to search the same locations over and over again rather than looking elsewhere without Pratt's suggestion.

It seems like if Pratt actually did something psychic to help solve the crime, the article (or Sgt. Bank) would have mentioned it.

-Bri
The article makes four fundamental points:

(1) For 10 months, the police searched in vain for a missing woman, using "every tool at their disposal to try to find her, including search dogs, helicopters and infrared heat detectors."

(2) "When none of the standard techniques seemed to work, Sgt. Steve Bank called on a local psychic for help."

(3) While the police had focused their search "along an abandoned railway line where the 23-year-old woman was last seen . . . local psychic Norm Pratt steered police away from that trail."

(4) According to Sgt. Bank: "Without the use of the psychic, I think I'd still be looking for this person."

So, the search was going nowhere until Pratt steered police in a different direction. And it wasn't as if Sgt. Bank immediately called on Pratt -- rather, Bank waited 10 months. If you are not going to credit a psychic here with assisting the police, what would it take for you to do that?
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Old 25th August 2007, 04:18 PM   #16
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
So, the search was going nowhere until Pratt steered police in a different direction. And it wasn't as if Sgt. Bank immediately called on Pratt -- rather, Bank waited 10 months. If you are not going to credit a psychic here with assisting the police, what would it take for you to do that?
I don't care if they kept searching in the same place for 10 years without finding her. It wouldn't take any psychic ability to suggest that they search elsewhere.

Nowhere in the article does it say that Pratt told them where to find the body.

If this is the best evidence that Pratt is psychic, I'd say it's much more likely that he's not.

Did Pratt assist the police somehow? Maybe. Would they have found the body without Pratt? Probably, assuming that he didn't tell them where it was. Did Pratt use any psychic abilities to aid the police? The evidence would not indicate that to be the case.

-Bri
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Old 25th August 2007, 05:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
I don't care if they kept searching in the same place for 10 years without finding her. It wouldn't take any psychic ability to suggest that they search elsewhere.

Nowhere in the article does it say that Pratt told them where to find the body.

If this is the best evidence that Pratt is psychic, I'd say it's much more likely that he's not.

Did Pratt assist the police somehow? Maybe. Would they have found the body without Pratt? Probably, assuming that he didn't tell them where it was. Did Pratt use any psychic abilities to aid the police? The evidence would not indicate that to be the case.

-Bri
Try applying your logic to medical doctors. Can you prove that they have cured patients of illnesses, or is it perhaps just a matter that the patients would have recovered anyway?
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Old 25th August 2007, 05:45 PM   #18
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Irrelevant. However drugs and other medical procedures have been proved to work via double blind experiments.
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Old 25th August 2007, 05:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
Try applying your logic to medical doctors. Can you prove that they have cured patients of illnesses, or is it perhaps just a matter that the patients would have recovered anyway?
Silly analogy. The issue is whether or not there is evidence that Pratt used any psychic abilities to aid the police. There is evidence from double-blind tests that doctors use medicine to cure illness.

Let's say a doctor asks a patient what the patient had previously tried to cure their illness. The patient tells the doctor they had tried aspirin. The doctor responds, "Well, try something else," but won't specify what the patient should try. Now, the patient (taking the doctor's advice) goes to another doctor who gives the patient antibiotics, and the patient recovers.

I'm not sure I would attribute the recovery to the first doctor's medical abilities.

-Bri

Last edited by Bri; 25th August 2007 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 25th August 2007, 06:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Silly analogy. The issue is whether or not there is evidence that Pratt used any psychic abilities to aid the police. There is evidence from double-blind tests that doctors use medicine to cure illness.
I doubt that anyone will argue with the proposition that "doctors use medicine to cure illness."

Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Let's say a doctor asks a patient what the patient had previously tried to cure their illness. The patient tells the doctor they had tried aspirin. The doctor responds, "Well, try something else," but won't specify what the patient should try. Now, the patient (taking the doctor's advice) goes to another doctor who gives the patient antibiotics, and the patient recovers.

I'm not sure I would attribute the recovery to the first doctor's medical abilities.

-Bri
But you can't say definitively that the antibiotics cured the patient. It seems logical, but it's not absolute proof. So why apply an absolute proof standard to psychics?
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Old 25th August 2007, 07:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
But you can't say definitively that the antibiotics cured the patient. It seems logical, but it's not absolute proof. So why apply an absolute proof standard to psychics?
Just to be clear, the question is, "is it necessarily through paranormal methods that psychics assist police?" The difference that you perceive in proof requirements is that there is independent evidence that antibiotics have a pharmacologic effect. There is no independent evidence of paranormal effects. When taking alternate explanations into consideration, the possibility that the antibiotics cured the patient is still reasonable. When taking alternate explanations into consideration, "magic" is unreasonable.

Linda
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Old 25th August 2007, 07:36 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
I doubt that anyone will argue with the proposition that "doctors use medicine to cure illness."
I should hope not, since evidence clearly indicates that doctors use medicine to cure illness.

Of course, my point is that the evidence does not indicate that the recovery of the patient can be attributed to the the first doctor's medical abilities, nor does it provide any indication that the first doctor even has any medical abilities. Just as the evidence does not indicate that the recovery of the body can be attributed to Pratt's psychic abilities, nor does it provide any indication that Pratt has any psychic abilities.

Quote:
But you can't say definitively that the antibiotics cured the patient. It seems logical, but it's not absolute proof. So why apply an absolute proof standard to psychics?
There is little absolute proof of anything, including psychic abilities, medicine, or most anything else. Can you point out where I said that an absolute proof was required of psychics?

No, I simply said that the evidence in favor of psychic ability must outweigh the evidence against psychic ability. In this case, the evidence doesn't seem to indicate that Pratt has psychic ability at all, much less that psychic ability was used to help find the body.

-Bri

Last edited by Bri; 25th August 2007 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
Just to be clear, the question is, "is it necessarily through paranormal methods that psychics assist police?" The difference that you perceive in proof requirements is that there is independent evidence that antibiotics have a pharmacologic effect. There is no independent evidence of paranormal effects. When taking alternate explanations into consideration, the possibility that the antibiotics cured the patient is still reasonable. When taking alternate explanations into consideration, "magic" is unreasonable.

Linda
So what would it take to cause you to think a psychic had assisted the police?
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:13 AM   #24
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Your question wasn't directed at me, but it would take a lot of evidence for me to think a psychic had assisted the police using psychic powers, given that there is very little evidence of psychic powers and plenty of evidence against it.

However, we're just talking about whether this particular report constitutes evidence of psychic powers being used to assist police, and it doesn't.

-Bri
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
So what would it take to cause you to think a psychic had assisted the police?
Speaking for myself only, I don't want to see police work being interfered with by psychics any more than I want drug companies testing new drugs on humans before they have shown any benefit in lab trials. Police work is too important to be so trivialized.

I would like to see a psychic, any psychic, show in a controlled study that they have any of their so claimed powers. First things first.
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Old 26th August 2007, 05:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by YoPopa View Post
Speaking for myself only, I don't want to see police work being interfered with by psychics any more than I want drug companies testing new drugs on humans before they have shown any benefit in lab trials. Police work is too important to be so trivialized.
So assisting the police in finding a body is trivializing police work?

Originally Posted by YoPopa View Post
I would like to see a psychic, any psychic, show in a controlled study that they have any of their so claimed powers. First things first.
How would a controlled study work for a psychic who was right, let's say, 30% of the time? What would be the protocol?
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Old 26th August 2007, 06:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
So assisting the police in finding a body is trivializing police work?


How would a controlled study work for a psychic who was right, let's say, 30% of the time? What would be the protocol?
Ten cases. Get three right? By right I mean something other than "still alive" or the body is "near water". Even I can do that.
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Old 26th August 2007, 06:22 PM   #28
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Ten cases. Get three right? By right I mean something other than "still alive" or the body is "near water". Even I can do that.
Would Norm Pratt have been credited with a hit in the missing woman case under discussion here?
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Old 26th August 2007, 06:24 PM   #29
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
How would a controlled study work for a psychic who was right, let's say, 30% of the time? What would be the protocol?
I find that funny. There are few psychics who only claim a 30% success rate. Most claim well over 85%. A 30% success rate wouldn't be very impressive, would be lower success than a cold reader could do in most cases, and probably wouldn't even make sense considering that most claim to be getting their information straight from God, an angel, a spirit guide, an ancient mystic, aliens, a dead relative, or some other entity who the psychic has reason to believe knows the answers to the questions asked.

Personally, I think it might be useful in a missing person's case if the psychic could prove in a controlled, double-blind test that they have a 10% success rate of finding missing people. Of course, none have ever even gotten above chance in a controlled, double-blind test.

-Bri

Last edited by Bri; 26th August 2007 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 26th August 2007, 06:25 PM   #30
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
Would Norm Pratt have been credited with a hit in the missing woman case under discussion here?
Was it a controlled study (i.e. a double-blind test)?

-Bri
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Old 26th August 2007, 06:57 PM   #31
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Personally, I think it might be useful in a missing person's case if the psychic could prove in a controlled, double-blind test that they have a 10% success rate of finding missing people. Of course, none have ever even gotten above chance in a controlled, double-blind test.

-Bri
Please be so kind as to name one psychic detective that has ever been tested in a controlled, double-blind test.
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:00 PM   #32
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Was it a controlled study (i.e. a double-blind test)?

-Bri
See my previous post. And I am also interested in your proposed protocol for testing a psychic detective.
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:11 PM   #33
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
Please be so kind as to name one psychic detective that has ever been tested in a controlled, double-blind test.
The post to which you were responding from YoPopa suggested that in order to avoid wasting time and resources, psychics should be given a controlled test to demonstrate that they can do what they say they can do before police consider consulting them to help solve crimes. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

How does your question "Would Norm Pratt have been credited with a hit in the missing woman case under discussion here?" address that point given that it wasn't a controlled test? How does whether or not I can name a "psychic detective" who has agreed to be tested address that point?

Rodney, you really seem to be trying hard to make a point, but I don't really get what your point is exactly. Care to state it outright, or at least address the points others have made that you seem to take exception to?

-Bri
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Old 26th August 2007, 07:16 PM   #34
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
See my previous post. And I am also interested in your proposed protocol for testing a psychic detective.
Again, I'm not sure what your point is, but the answer to your question is that it would depend on exactly what the claim is. In other words, what exactly can they do and how often can they do it?

-Bri
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:20 AM   #35
Rodney
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
The post to which you were responding from YoPopa suggested that in order to avoid wasting time and resources, psychics should be given a controlled test to demonstrate that they can do what they say they can do before police consider consulting them to help solve crimes. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

How does your question "Would Norm Pratt have been credited with a hit in the missing woman case under discussion here?" address that point given that it wasn't a controlled test? How does whether or not I can name a "psychic detective" who has agreed to be tested address that point?

Rodney, you really seem to be trying hard to make a point, but I don't really get what your point is exactly. Care to state it outright, or at least address the points others have made that you seem to take exception to?

-Bri
The point is simple: To my knowledge, no psychic detective has ever been tested under controlled conditions, and I believe the reason is that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to devise an objective protocol. So, it appears to me that the only way psychic detectives can be evaluated is to look at their track records. However, if you or someone else here can devise an objective protocol for testing psychic detectives, bring it on.
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Old 27th August 2007, 06:35 AM   #36
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I've already mentioned Alex Tanous.

Quote:
Alex Tanous was a renowned psychic and parapsychologist who believed very strongly in testing his paranormal abilities according to the standards of scientific research (he is discussed at length in Chapter 5 of Lives of the Psychics). The Alex Tanous Foundation has carried on this work since his death in 1990.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/265862.html
http://www.alextanous.org/

Quote:
Psychic Alex Tanous was being interviewed by Lee Spiegel for NBC radio’s "Unexplained Phenomena" show. The two were sitting opposite the street from the Dakota Apartments in New York City.

Spiegel asked for a prediction that would be of special interest to the station’s listening audience, eighteen to thirty-four year old rock enthusiasts.

"The prediction I will make," said Tanous, "is that a very famous rock star will have an untimely death and this can happen from this moment on. I say untimely death because there is something strange about this death, but it will affect the consciousness of many people because of his fame." Without mentioning a name, he added that the star may be foreign-born but living in the United States.

The show was aired on September 8, 1980. Three months later, John Lennon, the English-born rock star living in New York City, was short and killed outside the Dakota Apartments, visible through the windows of the office in which Alex Tanous had been sitting when he foresaw the tragic event to come.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C007446F/psychics.htm

Last edited by Hardenbergh; 27th August 2007 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 27th August 2007, 07:49 AM   #37
Bri
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Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
The point is simple: To my knowledge, no psychic detective has ever been tested under controlled conditions, and I believe the reason is that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to devise an objective protocol. So, it appears to me that the only way psychic detectives can be evaluated is to look at their track records. However, if you or someone else here can devise an objective protocol for testing psychic detectives, bring it on.
No psychic detective would have a "track record" that would be meaningful in any way. We've already discussed why the report in question (which is likely the best example you can come up with) can't even be counted as a success. As far as I can tell, Pratt has a 0% success record. If you really want to use their track record as a determining factor, then police definitely shouldn't use psychics at all.

That said, it is almost certain that a protocol could be devised to test a psychic's claims. Of course, the protocol used would depend on exactly what the claim of an individual psychic is. There is likely no one test that will work for all psychics since they each claim to be able to do different things with different degrees of success.

-Bri
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Old 27th August 2007, 08:03 AM   #38
Bri
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Originally Posted by Hardenbergh View Post
I've already mentioned Alex Tanous.
Was Alex Tanous tested using a controlled double-blind test? If so, can you please post a reference to the protocol used and the results?

-Bri
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Old 27th August 2007, 09:05 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Was Alex Tanous tested using a controlled double-blind test? If so, can you please post a reference to the protocol used and the results?

-Bri
The only thing I've been able to find is on the biographical page of his website:

Quote:
The offspring of psychic parents, he was born with a veil, the mystic cross and a five-pointed star on his left hand, the traditional markings of a psychic. By 1960, Alex realized that he possessed not only the traditional psychic power of predicting the future, but also a wide variety of other abilities. With an eye towards furthering scientific knowledge in this area, he submitted himself to the American Society for Psychical Research for testing. Dr. Karlis Osis, Director of the ASPR, has said, “In a series of ESP tests given to Dr. Alex Tanous in which he scored very high, the law of probability that it was chance was 1 out of 3000.” The odds that his test scores could have been coincidence were 99.9% against.

Dr. Tanous completed a classical education at Boston College and collected an impressive array of degrees—M.A. in philosophy from Boston College in 1960; M.A. in Sacred Sciences and Ph.D work at Fordham University; M.S. Ed. Counseling from the University of Maine in 1973; Doctor of Divinity from the College of Metaphysics in Indiana in 1965. Between 1965-1967 Alex taught Theology at Manhattan College and St. Johns University, both located in New York City. In recent years he taught classes on Psychic Phenomena and related topics at the University of Southern Maine.

From 1968 until the time of his death, he was associated with the American Society of Psychical Research. During this time, he served as the ASPR’s leading “gifted” subject in many experiments. Alex also applied his talents to the diagnosis and treatment of disorders at a psychiatric clinic in Pennsylvania and to studies of Psychic Healing conducted at McGill University in Canada.

Also documented by the ASPR are his powers of astro-projection, bilocation, ESP, psychometry, the Bergman test, and all of his past predictions. In addition, he demonstrated the ability to practice teleportation, faith-healing, communication with ghosts, solidifying light and projecting his thoughts on a screen.
http://www.alextanous.org/research/biography.php
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Old 27th August 2007, 09:25 AM   #40
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With all the psychics around jumping in on missing persons cases, sooner or later we should expect something that could be called a hit, just by chanse alone. If he and other psychics could do it again and again, then it would be interesting.
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