Company prints its OWN currency

Temporal Renegade · 1st September 2007, 12:34 PM

Well, can't argue with *this* logic...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout

TragicMonkey · 1st September 2007, 01:47 PM

Wow. And I thought the dentist who didn't believe in taxes was nuts.

This Guy · 1st September 2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade

Well, can't argue with *this* logic...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout

Nope!

Cause anyone this delusional wouldn't be able to offer a sound argument anyway I figure.

fuelair · 1st September 2007, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade

Well, can't argue with *this* logic...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout

Well, Kissimmee is near FantasyLand - I guess it rubbed off on this incompetant. Sorry it is near where I live though!!!

Madalch · 1st September 2007, 02:30 PM

I wonder what the exchange rate would be between those and Canadian Tire money.

Gord_in_Toronto · 1st September 2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Madalch

I wonder what the exchange rate would be between those and Canadian Tire money.

Well at least Canadian Tire money is backed by tires! So I would guess no contest.

hgc · 1st September 2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

...
He said he will be printing "real U.S. dollars," because he considers those issued by the Federal Reserve illegal, since they are not backed by gold, silver or any other tangible assets.
...
All was done using checks printed by United Cities. Those were backed by "The United States Private Dollar" that Cruz conceived. He said his currency is backed by undisclosed assets and the future earnings of his network's employees.
...

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I always say. If this guy claims that real currency is backed by real stuff, then show me the money!

Charlie Monoxide · 1st September 2007, 10:57 PM

The only thing I miss about Florida is their sincere wackiness ....

Charlie (might end up back there) Monoxide

webfusion · 2nd September 2007, 06:57 AM

I took a magnifying glass and inspected the photo accompanying the article:

"What, Me Worry?"

Mobyseven · 2nd September 2007, 07:13 AM

Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already.

Mangafranga · 2nd September 2007, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mobyseven

Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already.

But the number of morons inside jail is directly related to the number outside of jail.

TragicMonkey · 2nd September 2007, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mobyseven

Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already.

He'll just start printing his own prison currency. "This note is backed by a carton of cigarettes."

kmortis · 2nd September 2007, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mobyseven

Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already.

Well, obviously not. They're still running amok outside, infecting us with their moronitude.

I used to work of a police department, and my Lt. once told me that the only reason she ever arrested anyone was for the crime of "criminal stupidity". Granted, it had various other names (e.g. illegal consumption of alcohol by a minor or drunk driving - did I mention that this was on camous?), but it all came down to "criminal stupidity".

fuelair · 2nd September 2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

He'll just start printing his own prison currency. "This note is backed by a carton of cigarettes."

Or, more likely"This note is backed by my backside".

SteveGrenard · 2nd September 2007, 09:45 AM

There is hardly anything new about private currency printing and distribution. It was done in this country for hundreds of years, is still done overseas, mostly by banks, and during WW II our own soldiers in some locations were paid in fake money known as "scrip" I believe.

A case could be made that gift certificates, prepaid credit cards and coupons that can be used to acquire goods are private currency as well. Anyone of us can scribble out an IOU, decorate it any way we please and issue our own currency that way. Hotels in Florida that couldn't pay their ad bills routinely issued IOUs, called due bills, that were sold at a discount to insiders in the printing, ad and media industry who would then enjoy a half price stay.

Here is a more blatant example:

www.milleniumdollar.com

And our daily newspapers are filled with ads for fake coinage designed to look like real government issued coinage but produced by firms calling themselves private mints. They bear denominations on them but are designed to bilk people who think they are coin collectors or investors. Some of this junk money does end up being collector's items, maybe in a few hundred years.

Google "private currency." Go to Google images and enter "private currency" for a picture show of innumerable perfectly legal examples.

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

He is also calling for the Department of Treasury's Office of the Comptroller of the Currency as well as the Federal Reserve System -- which he has called "Satan's banking system"-- "to prove or retract their false claims within 48 hours" about his company issuing "worthless" checks.

This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase.

Temporal Renegade · 2nd September 2007, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase.

Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved....

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade

Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved....

Nope, that was Gump Worsley.

fuelair · 2nd September 2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade

Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved....

Jesus Saves (but)

Moses Invests (but)

Cthulhu Ingests.

strathmeyer · 2nd September 2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase.

Evidence? It's clear that he banks at Bank of America: http://www.consumerist.com/search/boa/

TragicMonkey · 2nd September 2007, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Jesus Saves (but)

Moses Invests (but)

Cthulhu Ingests.

Reminds me of a joke. Jesus and Cthulhu were hanging out, and Jesus was explaining to the less-organized-religion Cthulhu about tithing. Jesus told him "I do pretty well off my worshippers. I just take ten percent."

So Cthulhu followed his advice, and started leaving ninety percent of each corpse behind.

Bob Klase · 3rd September 2007, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

There is hardly anything new about private currency printing and distribution. It was done in this country for hundreds of years, is still done overseas, mostly by banks, and during WW II our own soldiers in some locations were paid in fake money known as "scrip" I believe.

There's a difference between printing 'private currency' and printing duplicates of US currency. The latter is called counterfeiting and it's illegal.

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

A case could be made that gift certificates, prepaid credit cards and coupons that can be used to acquire goods are private currency as well. Anyone of us can scribble out an IOU, decorate it any way we please and issue our own currency that way. Hotels in Florida that couldn't pay their ad bills routinely issued IOUs, called due bills, that were sold at a discount to insiders in the printing, ad and media industry who would then enjoy a half price stay.

Google "private currency." Go to Google images and enter "private currency" for a picture show of innumerable perfectly legal examples.

Then go to the link in the OP for a photo of what appears to be an illegal example.

SteveGrenard · 3rd September 2007, 12:29 PM

It's too blurry and perhaps a bit too far for me to see the wording on the bills but if it is changed it is not counterfeiting. Certainly at a glance it looks
like actual copies, probably made on a scanner and color printed. Is the Alfred E. Neumann note an example of mad money?

www/prankplace.com/funnymoney.com

Ziggurat · 3rd September 2007, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Or, more likely"This note is backed by my backside".

Where do you think all those cigarettes are stored?

The Central Scrutinizer · 3rd September 2007, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

It's too blurry and perhaps a bit too far for me to see the wording on the bills but if it is changed it is not counterfeiting.

Wrong.

quixotecoyote · 3rd September 2007, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wrong.

I don't think your link supports your assertion.

If he prints money with a clear difference from normal currency, he is not altering "any obligation or other security of the United States" but creating his own currency. That is perfectly legal to do if all other factors are legitimate, which they don't appear to be in this case.

The Central Scrutinizer · 3rd September 2007, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

I don't think your link supports your assertion.

If he prints money with a clear difference from normal currency, he is not altering "any obligation or other security of the United States" but creating his own currency. That is perfectly legal to do if all other factors are legitimate, which they don't appear to be in this case.

Quote:

Whoever, with intent to defraud, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

This is the key passage. If I understand the article correctly, he intends to pass it off as real currency.

quixotecoyote · 3rd September 2007, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

This is the key passage. If I understand the article correctly, he intends to pass it off as real currency.

If I understand it correctly, that particular law still wouldn't apply.

I believe that "obligation or other security of the United States" refers to US treasury bonds, official currency, and the like.

If I am correct, then he neither made, forged, or counterfeited any of it because it was explicitly and intentionally different. Neither did he alter any preexisting items. I think they can get him on fraud, passing bad checks, or something like that, but I don't think you'll get him on a chapter 25 issue.

Loss Leader · 3rd September 2007, 10:26 PM

Oh yeah, this'll end well.

Temporal Renegade · 4th September 2007, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Reminds me of a joke. Jesus and Cthulhu were hanging out, and Jesus was explaining to the less-organized-religion Cthulhu about tithing. Jesus told him "I do pretty well off my worshippers. I just take ten percent."

So Cthulhu followed his advice, and started leaving ninety percent of each corpse behind.

I actually laughed at this a little.

Temporal Renegade · 4th September 2007, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Jesus Saves (but)

Moses Invests (but)

Cthulhu Ingests.

dudalb · 4th September 2007, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Oh yeah, this'll end well.

I love the way this idiot notified the Treasury Department what he was up to.(Not that they would not have found out soon enough).
THE Secret Service is just waiting for them to actually print and distribute it to bust them for counterfeiting.
The company has a right to print it's own currency...although they would not find anybody willing to take it...but when they start printing "real" dollars they are begging for a heap of trouble and a long prison term.
And I have a feeling they will be facing Fraud charges on account of the phony checks as well.

Loss Leader · 4th September 2007, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

The company has a right to print it's own currency...although they would not find anybody willing to take it...but when they start printing "real" dollars they are begging for a heap of trouble and a long prison term.

Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill.

Madalch · 5th September 2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill.

Wasn't that a $300 bill, with a picture of George W. Bush and a sign saying "I love broccoli"?

ETA: Sorry, it was a $200: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushbill1.html

dudalb · 5th September 2007, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill.

I am not a lawyer,but I would suspect he could get nailed for fraud.

Loss Leader · 5th September 2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I am not a lawyer,but I would suspect he could get nailed for fraud.

Theft by deceit, actually. But not counterfeiting.

UserGoogol · 5th September 2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I love the way this idiot notified the Treasury Department what he was up to.(Not that they would not have found out soon enough).
THE Secret Service is just waiting for them to actually print and distribute it to bust them for counterfeiting.
The company has a right to print it's own currency...although they would not find anybody willing to take it...but when they start printing "real" dollars they are begging for a heap of trouble and a long prison term.
And I have a feeling they will be facing Fraud charges on account of the phony checks as well.

He says he's going to print "real" money, but there's no law against passing money off as being something as ambiguously defined as "real." The article seemed to give the impression that he won't be passing these off as "Federal Reserve Notes," (since the Federal Reserve is "Satan's banking system" and all that) and if his currency clearly marks that it isn't a Federal Reserve Note, then it might be in the clear, legally speaking. It's certainly a gray area, though, since it's so clearly designed to resemble the Federal Reserve Note. (IANAL.)

SteveGrenard · 9th September 2007, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill.

About twenty years ago or so there was a guy who cashed (at a bank doing money exchange) in multi-thousand mark German inflation era money at the current rate of exchange at the time. He bought the genuine German currrency for mere pennies and turned them into thousands of dollars.

Madalch · 9th September 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard

About twenty years ago or so there was a guy who cashed (at a bank doing money exchange) in multi-thousand mark German inflation era money at the current rate of exchange at the time. He bought the genuine German currrency for mere pennies and turned them into thousands of dollars.

So he bought pre-WWII currency, and exchanged them at a bank as if they were current (at the time) Deutchmarks?

Wow. Where was the bank he did this at?

SteveGrenard · 9th September 2007, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Madalch

So he bought pre-WWII currency, and exchanged them at a bank as if they were current (at the time) Deutchmarks?

Wow. Where was the bank he did this at?

I don't honestly remember the bank, somewhere in the U.S. You can't pull this scam anymore since Germany now uses Euros. The reason I know about it is the guy got caught and afterwards banks and money exchangers equipped themselves with specimen books or pictures of legitimate/actively used currencies.

There is actually a website devoted to these notes including the 5 Billion Mark Scam (link):

http://www.germannotes.com/news/index.php/archives/14

Genuine German currency can be bought from collectors dealers such as:

http://www.kcshop.com/foreigncurrenc...icRepublic.htm

1st September 2007, 12:34 PM	#1
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Company prints its OWN currency Well, can't argue with this logic... http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

1st September 2007, 01:47 PM	#2
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,114	Wow. And I thought the dentist who didn't believe in taxes was nuts.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

1st September 2007, 01:51 PM	#3
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade Well, can't argue with this logic... http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout Nope! Cause anyone this delusional wouldn't be able to offer a sound argument anyway I figure.
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

1st September 2007, 02:21 PM	#4
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade Well, can't argue with this logic... http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...l_tab01_layout Well, Kissimmee is near FantasyLand - I guess it rubbed off on this incompetant. Sorry it is near where I live though!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

1st September 2007, 02:30 PM	#5
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The wet coast. Posts: 8,707	I wonder what the exchange rate would be between those and Canadian Tire money.
	__________________ As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker

1st September 2007, 02:51 PM	#6
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,418	Originally Posted by Madalch I wonder what the exchange rate would be between those and Canadian Tire money. Well at least Canadian Tire money is backed by tires! So I would guess no contest.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

1st September 2007, 04:50 PM	#7
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,028	Quote: ... He said he will be printing "real U.S. dollars," because he considers those issued by the Federal Reserve illegal, since they are not backed by gold, silver or any other tangible assets. ... All was done using checks printed by United Cities. Those were backed by "The United States Private Dollar" that Cruz conceived. He said his currency is backed by undisclosed assets and the future earnings of his network's employees. ... What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I always say. If this guy claims that real currency is backed by real stuff, then show me the money!
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

1st September 2007, 10:57 PM	#8
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	The only thing I miss about Florida is their sincere wackiness .... Charlie (might end up back there) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

2nd September 2007, 06:57 AM	#9
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Look closely I took a magnifying glass and inspected the photo accompanying the article: "What, Me Worry?"

2nd September 2007, 07:13 AM	#10
Mobyseven President of Covert-Ops Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Not the Rat. Posts: 5,672	Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already.
	__________________ "[Mobyseven is] a fantastically friendly, open, curious, happy, charming, sweet and adorable young man! And those are his bad points." - HistoryGal on Mobyseven "Damn, you're good." - Ichneumonwasp on Mobyseven

2nd September 2007, 07:50 AM	#11
Mangafranga Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Originally Posted by Mobyseven Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already. But the number of morons inside jail is directly related to the number outside of jail.
Mangafranga Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222

2nd September 2007, 08:10 AM	#12
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,114	Originally Posted by Mobyseven Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already. He'll just start printing his own prison currency. "This note is backed by a carton of cigarettes."
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

2nd September 2007, 08:11 AM	#13
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,635	Originally Posted by Mobyseven Fantastic. Because there weren't enough morons in jail already. Well, obviously not. They're still running amok outside, infecting us with their moronitude. I used to work of a police department, and my Lt. once told me that the only reason she ever arrested anyone was for the crime of "criminal stupidity". Granted, it had various other names (e.g. illegal consumption of alcohol by a minor or drunk driving - did I mention that this was on camous?), but it all came down to "criminal stupidity".
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

2nd September 2007, 09:36 AM	#14
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey He'll just start printing his own prison currency. "This note is backed by a carton of cigarettes." Or, more likely"This note is backed by my backside".
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

2nd September 2007, 09:45 AM	#15
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	There is hardly anything new about private currency printing and distribution. It was done in this country for hundreds of years, is still done overseas, mostly by banks, and during WW II our own soldiers in some locations were paid in fake money known as "scrip" I believe. A case could be made that gift certificates, prepaid credit cards and coupons that can be used to acquire goods are private currency as well. Anyone of us can scribble out an IOU, decorate it any way we please and issue our own currency that way. Hotels in Florida that couldn't pay their ad bills routinely issued IOUs, called due bills, that were sold at a discount to insiders in the printing, ad and media industry who would then enjoy a half price stay. Here is a more blatant example: www.milleniumdollar.com And our daily newspapers are filled with ads for fake coinage designed to look like real government issued coinage but produced by firms calling themselves private mints. They bear denominations on them but are designed to bilk people who think they are coin collectors or investors. Some of this junk money does end up being collector's items, maybe in a few hundred years. Google "private currency." Go to Google images and enter "private currency" for a picture show of innumerable perfectly legal examples.
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov Last edited by SteveGrenard; 2nd September 2007 at 10:05 AM.

2nd September 2007, 03:23 PM	#16
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Quote: He is also calling for the Department of Treasury's Office of the Comptroller of the Currency as well as the Federal Reserve System -- which he has called "*Satan's banking system*"-- "to prove or retract their false claims within 48 hours" about his company issuing "worthless" checks. This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

2nd September 2007, 05:24 PM	#17
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase. Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved....
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

2nd September 2007, 07:10 PM	#18
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved.... Nope, that was Gump Worsley.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

2nd September 2007, 09:12 PM	#19
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by Temporal Renegade Hmm. And here I was, thinking that it was Jesus who saved.... Jesus Saves (but) Moses Invests (but) Cthulhu Ingests.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

2nd September 2007, 10:05 PM	#20
strathmeyer seriously unable to be serious Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 2,382	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer This guy is a nut. Everyone knows Satan banks at JP Morgan Chase. Evidence? It's clear that he banks at Bank of America: http://www.consumerist.com/search/boa/

2nd September 2007, 11:54 PM	#21
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,114	Originally Posted by fuelair Jesus Saves (but) Moses Invests (but) Cthulhu Ingests. Reminds me of a joke. Jesus and Cthulhu were hanging out, and Jesus was explaining to the less-organized-religion Cthulhu about tithing. Jesus told him "I do pretty well off my worshippers. I just take ten percent." So Cthulhu followed his advice, and started leaving ninety percent of each corpse behind.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

3rd September 2007, 07:28 AM	#22
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by SteveGrenard There is hardly anything new about private currency printing and distribution. It was done in this country for hundreds of years, is still done overseas, mostly by banks, and during WW II our own soldiers in some locations were paid in fake money known as "scrip" I believe. There's a difference between printing 'private currency' and printing duplicates of US currency. The latter is called counterfeiting and it's illegal. Originally Posted by SteveGrenard A case could be made that gift certificates, prepaid credit cards and coupons that can be used to acquire goods are private currency as well. Anyone of us can scribble out an IOU, decorate it any way we please and issue our own currency that way. Hotels in Florida that couldn't pay their ad bills routinely issued IOUs, called due bills, that were sold at a discount to insiders in the printing, ad and media industry who would then enjoy a half price stay. Google "private currency." Go to Google images and enter "private currency" for a picture show of innumerable perfectly legal examples. Then go to the link in the OP for a photo of what appears to be an illegal example.

3rd September 2007, 12:29 PM	#23
SteveGrenard Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wherever the airline sends my luggage Posts: 5,528	It's too blurry and perhaps a bit too far for me to see the wording on the bills but if it is changed it is not counterfeiting. Certainly at a glance it looks like actual copies, probably made on a scanner and color printed. Is the Alfred E. Neumann note an example of mad money? www/prankplace.com/funnymoney.com
	__________________ "We are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization” Pierre Rehov

3rd September 2007, 12:55 PM	#24
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,227	Originally Posted by fuelair Or, more likely"This note is backed by my backside". Where do you think all those cigarettes are stored?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd September 2007, 08:38 PM	#25
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by SteveGrenard It's too blurry and perhaps a bit too far for me to see the wording on the bills but *if it is changed it is not counterfeiting*. Wrong.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

3rd September 2007, 08:50 PM	#26
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Wrong. I don't think your link supports your assertion. If he prints money with a clear difference from normal currency, he is not altering "any obligation or other security of the United States" but creating his own currency. That is perfectly legal to do if all other factors are legitimate, which they don't appear to be in this case.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

3rd September 2007, 09:00 PM	#27
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote I don't think your link supports your assertion. If he prints money with a clear difference from normal currency, he is not altering "any obligation or other security of the United States" but creating his own currency. That is perfectly legal to do if all other factors are legitimate, which they don't appear to be in this case. Quote: Whoever, *with intent to defraud*, falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, or alters any obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. This is the key passage. If I understand the article correctly, he intends to pass it off as real currency.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

3rd September 2007, 09:05 PM	#28
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer This is the key passage. If I understand the article correctly, he intends to pass it off as real currency. If I understand it correctly, that particular law still wouldn't apply. I believe that "obligation or other security of the United States" refers to US treasury bonds, official currency, and the like. If I am correct, then he neither made, forged, or counterfeited any of it because it was explicitly and intentionally different. Neither did he alter any preexisting items. I think they can get him on fraud, passing bad checks, or something like that, but I don't think you'll get him on a chapter 25 issue.
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3rd September 2007, 10:26 PM	#29
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Oh yeah, this'll end well.
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4th September 2007, 01:05 PM	#30
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Reminds me of a joke. Jesus and Cthulhu were hanging out, and Jesus was explaining to the less-organized-religion Cthulhu about tithing. Jesus told him "I do pretty well off my worshippers. I just take ten percent." So Cthulhu followed his advice, and started leaving ninety percent of each corpse behind. I actually laughed at this a little.
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4th September 2007, 01:07 PM	#31
Temporal Renegade Last of the Time Lords Join Date: May 2003 Location: University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople Posts: 1,893	Originally Posted by fuelair Jesus Saves (but) Moses Invests (but) Cthulhu Ingests.
	__________________ "Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED

4th September 2007, 05:01 PM	#32
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Oh yeah, this'll end well. I love the way this idiot notified the Treasury Department what he was up to.(Not that they would not have found out soon enough). THE Secret Service is just waiting for them to actually print and distribute it to bust them for counterfeiting. The company has a right to print it's own currency...although they would not find anybody willing to take it...but when they start printing "real" dollars they are begging for a heap of trouble and a long prison term. And I have a feeling they will be facing Fraud charges on account of the phony checks as well.

4th September 2007, 06:28 PM	#33
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Originally Posted by dudalb The company has a right to print it's own currency...although they would not find anybody willing to take it...but when they start printing "real" dollars they are begging for a heap of trouble and a long prison term. Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill.
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5th September 2007, 10:43 AM	#34
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The wet coast. Posts: 8,707	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill. Wasn't that a $300 bill, with a picture of George W. Bush and a sign saying "I love broccoli"? ETA: Sorry, it was a $200: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushbill1.html
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5th September 2007, 10:58 AM	#35
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Yeah, I remember a story about a criminal who successfully passed and got change for a $200.00 bill. They couldn't even charge him with counterfeiting because there's no such thing as a $200.00 bill. I am not a lawyer,but I would suspect he could get nailed for fraud.