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Bob Klase · 2nd September 2007, 06:55 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/opinion/02sun1.html

Both the Democrats and Republicans are threatening to count none of the votes in Florida and Michigans primaries because those states are scheduling votes too early.

IMO the primary system has been broken for a long time with 4 states authorized by the parties to vote before Feb 5. Those 4 states select the candidates that the rest of country can vote for. At the same time, it would corrupt the system even more if candidates have to raise money to campaign in primaries for all 50 states at the same time.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I do think that if the two major political parties want to dictate when states can schedule their votes then those two parties should pay the cost opening the polls on their schedule.

WildCat · 2nd September 2007, 09:04 AM

I think having regional primaries would be a better idea. Divide the country into 6 or so regions, with each region voting at the same time. You could even rotate the schedule so each region can be first occasionally.

Puppycow · 2nd September 2007, 09:26 AM

How about a lottery about 3 years in advance of each election? That way every state has an equal chance to go first.

Bob Klase · 2nd September 2007, 09:58 AM

I think any solution is going to have to include some kind of rotation.

I don't think a lottery is a good idea. Even if we split into 5 regions and rotate, every state would vote in the first round once every 20 years. With a lottery, some states could end up 60 or even 100 years without going first.

WildCat · 2nd September 2007, 11:01 AM

Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot.

corplinx · 2nd September 2007, 11:41 AM

I think it would be funny if Florida scheduled its primary first and all the democrat candidates switched positions on Cuba.

joobie · 2nd September 2007, 02:27 PM

who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway?

do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else?

The Central Scrutinizer · 2nd September 2007, 03:15 PM

Honestly, does anyone really care?

WildCat · 2nd September 2007, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by joobie

who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway?

do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else?

So how should the various parties select their candidates?

Region Rat · 2nd September 2007, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

So how should the various parties select their candidates?

By height.

(movie reference, anyone?)

Bob Klase · 2nd September 2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by joobie

who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway?

do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else?

Maybe, but they benefit the parties. Without primaries there'd be 4, 5 or 10 candidates from each major party. The votes would be split among them and the door would be wide open for 3rd (4th and 5th) parties to gain power.

Dorian Gray · 2nd September 2007, 08:07 PM

Wait a minute - isn't that true NOW?

leftysergeant · 3rd September 2007, 02:27 AM

The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway.

MelBrooksfan · 3rd September 2007, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot.

And suddenly, Jesse Ventura would be politically viable again.

Kerberos · 3rd September 2007, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot.

Hmm, not a big fan af wrestling under most circumstances, but I'm willing to compromise: You could settle it by mudwrestling between the candidates for Miss America.

corplinx · 3rd September 2007, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway.

That is simply a dumb idea. If that had been the case, Bill Clinton would have lost to Paul Tsongas. You can't have a comeback kid who proves he is the better candidate in a one day vote.

ponderingturtle · 4th September 2007, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Maybe, but they benefit the parties. Without primaries there'd be 4, 5 or 10 candidates from each major party. The votes would be split among them and the door would be wide open for 3rd (4th and 5th) parties to gain power.

Well you could go the way other countries have and have multiple rounds of presidential voting in a general election.

But that isn't going to happen

Beerina · 4th September 2007, 07:00 AM

Michigan hasn't counted in quite awhile.

I'd use the

symbol, but it's really quite sad. When I was little, we were at the top of the list in per capita money sent to Washington thanks to high incomes. Now we're in the middle and dropping fast. Our employment rate is way higher than other places -- only New Orleans, a smashed city, has bigger problems.

To put it in perspective, my housing taxes went up $700 this year. Meanwhile, mortgage defaults are setting records.

That tells you what the government is up to, as far as cluelessness goes.

Darth Rotor · 4th September 2007, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Region Rat

By height.

(movie reference, anyone?)

Caddyshack, for the win.

DR

Darth Rotor · 4th September 2007, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

That tells you what the government is up to, as far as cluelessness goes.

Last person out of Detroit, please turn off the lights -- we have a global warming matter at hand, and can't afford to waste energy.

DR

rtalman · 4th September 2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway.

The primary procedures put in place by the 2 major parties are completely outside the scope of the U.S. Constitution.

What you are suggesting is akin to demanding the Constitution be amended to require a playoff system to decide the NCAA Division I Football National Championship. One has nothing to do with the other.

Personally, I long for a return to the smoke-filled rooms, where a small group of power brokers would decide which candidate best represented their party... at least it would get rid of the amalgam of milquetoasts that we are presented with now.

Garrette · 7th September 2007, 08:35 AM

I agree with the all-states-on-day approach, but not as a constitutional mandate. I just think it's a dumb way for the parties to do it.

But I would put in place the rule that no federal funds can be used for campaigning during the primary. Primaries are the parties business. Federal campaign funds should be reserved for those who will be on the ticket in November.

Yes, there are legitimate arguments against this proposal, but I'll take my imperfect proposal over the other imperfect proposals I've seen.

Upchurch · 7th September 2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by MelBrooksfan

And suddenly, Jesse Ventura would be politically viable again.

Good point. The contest should be based on intelligence, not physical ability. I say: highest Pac-Man score.

Almo · 7th September 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Good point. The contest should be based on intelligence, not physical ability. I say: highest Pac-Man score.

Nope. Too easy to get that game to wrap. Need something with more headroom. Plus level 256 is messed up since there's no level 0 in Pac-Man.

2nd September 2007, 06:55 AM	#1
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Democrats No Longer Want to Count All the Votes http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/opinion/02sun1.html Both the Democrats and Republicans are threatening to count none of the votes in Florida and Michigans primaries because those states are scheduling votes too early. IMO the primary system has been broken for a long time with 4 states authorized by the parties to vote before Feb 5. Those 4 states select the candidates that the rest of country can vote for. At the same time, it would corrupt the system even more if candidates have to raise money to campaign in primaries for all 50 states at the same time. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I do think that if the two major political parties want to dictate when states can schedule their votes then those two parties should pay the cost opening the polls on their schedule.

2nd September 2007, 09:26 AM	#3
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 16,025	How about a lottery about 3 years in advance of each election? That way every state has an equal chance to go first.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

2nd September 2007, 11:41 AM	#6
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	I think it would be funny if Florida scheduled its primary first and all the democrat candidates switched positions on Cuba.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

2nd September 2007, 03:15 PM	#8
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,577	Honestly, does anyone really care?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

2nd September 2007, 05:45 PM	#10
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sprung from Da Calumet Region Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by WildCat So how should the various parties select their candidates? By height. (movie reference, anyone?)
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

2nd September 2007, 09:04 AM	#2
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,463	I think having regional primaries would be a better idea. Divide the country into 6 or so regions, with each region voting at the same time. You could even rotate the schedule so each region can be first occasionally.

2nd September 2007, 09:58 AM	#4
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	I think any solution is going to have to include some kind of rotation. I don't think a lottery is a good idea. Even if we split into 5 regions and rotate, every state would vote in the first round once every 20 years. With a lottery, some states could end up 60 or even 100 years without going first.

2nd September 2007, 11:01 AM	#5
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,463	Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot.

2nd September 2007, 02:27 PM	#7
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in my dreams, i am still in perú Posts: 2,517	who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway? do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else?

2nd September 2007, 05:37 PM	#9
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,463	Originally Posted by joobie who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway? do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else? So how should the various parties select their candidates?

2nd September 2007, 07:20 PM	#11
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by joobie who really needs state primaries or caucuses anyway? do they really serve any purpose for the benefit of anyone else? Maybe, but they benefit the parties. Without primaries there'd be 4, 5 or 10 candidates from each major party. The votes would be split among them and the door would be wide open for 3rd (4th and 5th) parties to gain power.

2nd September 2007, 08:07 PM	#12
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 20,210	Wait a minute - isn't that true NOW?
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House Additionally to Carlin being funnier than Izzard, I think Dorian is funnier than the Marquis. - Ron Tomkins

3rd September 2007, 02:27 AM	#13
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,614	The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway.

3rd September 2007, 06:33 AM	#14
MelBrooksfan Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,011	Originally Posted by WildCat Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot. And suddenly, Jesse Ventura would be politically viable again.

3rd September 2007, 08:49 AM	#15
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	Originally Posted by WildCat Or it may be more entertaining if the governors of the various states wrestled each other for the top spot. Hmm, not a big fan af wrestling under most circumstances, but I'm willing to compromise: You could settle it by mudwrestling between the candidates for Miss America.
Kerberos Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,608	__________________ Bible code: A method for obtaining hidden messages from texts that contains none, for the purpose of predicting events after they happen. "When the facts are on you side, but the law is against you, stress the facts. When the law is on your side, but the facts are against you stress the law. When both the facts and the law is against you, pound the table and yell like hell". Laywer maxim

3rd September 2007, 12:26 PM	#16
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by leftysergeant The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway. That is simply a dumb idea. If that had been the case, Bill Clinton would have lost to Paul Tsongas. You can't have a comeback kid who proves he is the better candidate in a one day vote.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

4th September 2007, 06:40 AM	#17
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,557	Originally Posted by Bob Klase Maybe, but they benefit the parties. Without primaries there'd be 4, 5 or 10 candidates from each major party. The votes would be split among them and the door would be wide open for 3rd (4th and 5th) parties to gain power. Well you could go the way other countries have and have multiple rounds of presidential voting in a general election. But that isn't going to happen
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4th September 2007, 07:00 AM	#18
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Michigan hasn't counted in quite awhile. I'd use the symbol, but it's really quite sad. When I was little, we were at the top of the list in per capita money sent to Washington thanks to high incomes. Now we're in the middle and dropping fast. Our employment rate is way higher than other places -- only New Orleans, a smashed city, has bigger problems. To put it in perspective, my housing taxes went up $700 this year. Meanwhile, mortgage defaults are setting records. That tells you what the government is up to, as far as cluelessness goes.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

4th September 2007, 08:46 AM	#19
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,378	Originally Posted by Region Rat By height. (movie reference, anyone?) Caddyshack, for the win. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

4th September 2007, 08:48 AM	#20
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,378	Originally Posted by Beerina That tells you what the government is up to, as far as cluelessness goes. Last person out of Detroit, please turn off the lights -- we have a global warming matter at hand, and can't afford to waste energy. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

4th September 2007, 01:53 PM	#21
rtalman Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 835	Originally Posted by leftysergeant The Constitution should be ammended to requirte that all primaries or causcuses occur on the same day. That woulkd save the candidates the expense of paying for separate campaigns in every state that wants the undivided attention of every candidate and it would not eliminate a viable candidate because he loses steam in a state that is not going to vote for his party anyway. The primary procedures put in place by the 2 major parties are completely outside the scope of the U.S. Constitution. What you are suggesting is akin to demanding the Constitution be amended to require a playoff system to decide the NCAA Division I Football National Championship. One has nothing to do with the other. Personally, I long for a return to the smoke-filled rooms, where a small group of power brokers would decide which candidate best represented their party... at least it would get rid of the amalgam of milquetoasts that we are presented with now.
rtalman Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 835	__________________ Re-education Camp Director: What's better than a big juicy steak? Camp Detainees: Nothing is better than a big juicy steak! Re-education Camp Director: And what's better than nothing? Camp Detainees: A stale piece of bread is better than nothing! Re-education Camp Director: Therefore a stale piece of bread is better than a big juicy steak.

7th September 2007, 08:35 AM	#22
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,643	I agree with the all-states-on-day approach, but not as a constitutional mandate. I just think it's a dumb way for the parties to do it. But I would put in place the rule that no federal funds can be used for campaigning during the primary. Primaries are the parties business. Federal campaign funds should be reserved for those who will be on the ticket in November. Yes, there are legitimate arguments against this proposal, but I'll take my imperfect proposal over the other imperfect proposals I've seen.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

7th September 2007, 11:45 AM	#23
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,473	Originally Posted by MelBrooksfan And suddenly, Jesse Ventura would be politically viable again. Good point. The contest should be based on intelligence, not physical ability. I say: highest Pac-Man score.

7th September 2007, 12:14 PM	#24
Almo Masterblazer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 6,414	Originally Posted by Upchurch Good point. The contest should be based on intelligence, not physical ability. I say: highest Pac-Man score. Nope. Too easy to get that game to wrap. Need something with more headroom. Plus level 256 is messed up since there's no level 0 in Pac-Man.
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