Wicca teacher claims 1 Mega ticket

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 10:47 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/...llions_jackpot

Quote:

He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki (RAY'kee) healing when they stopped at a liquor store and bought two $5 Mega Millions tickets for Friday night's estimated $330 million jackpot. On Sunday, he said one ticket was a winner.

If he was Xian - it would be a "miracle".

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 01:38 PM

He apparently made an internal spiritual pact with a power - similar to what Cat Stevens did.

So who made out better? Mr. I-won-$49-million-dollars? Or Mr. I-gotta-wear-this-beard?

ImaginalDisc · 3rd September 2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy;

He apparently made an internal spiritual pact with a power - similar to what Cat Stevens did.

So who made out better? Mr. I-won-$49-million-dollars? Or Mr. I-gotta-wear-this-beard?

I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits. Other silliness, yes.

LibraryLady · 3rd September 2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits. Other silliness, yes.

I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods.

ImaginalDisc · 3rd September 2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady;

I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods.

Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan?

Why am I trying to make sense of this?

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan?

He may be a cross between a Wiccan and a Pagan....a Pecan.

Quote:

Why am I trying to make sense of this?

Because you're a good person.

Tricky · 3rd September 2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan?

Why am I trying to make sense of this?

Wiccan is a variety of Pagan.

LibraryLady · 3rd September 2007, 05:16 PM

Here's the video.

Nucular · 3rd September 2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Bartlett, an accountant from Dundalk, said he made a bargain with the multiple gods associated with his Wiccan beliefs: "You let me win the lottery and I'll teach."

Wasn't he teaching anyway? How dumb are those gods? At least the Devil writes his own contracts.

DoubtingStephen · 3rd September 2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods.

Well which one of them was the One True God?

LibraryLady · 3rd September 2007, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Nucular

Wasn't he teaching anyway? How dumb are those gods? At least the Devil writes his own contracts.

No. He was a bookkeeper. He wanted to teach.

Nucular · 3rd September 2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

No. He was a bookkeeper. He wanted to teach.

From the link in the OP:

Quote:

He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki

It might be teaching nonsense, but it's still teaching.

And anyway, what kind of a deal is that?

"If you let me win the lottery, I promise to do something I'd really quite like to do as well".

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

Quote:

The deities of Wicca are understood as embodiments of a life-force manifest in nature.

Apparently they have spirits coming out of their wazoo. Which isn't as painful as it sounds...unless they pass the spirits of Orsen Wells and Raymond Burr.

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nucular

It might be teaching nonsense, but...

His Cricket God gave him $49 million and you call it nonsense?!

***********
Disclaimer: I actually don't know what Wiccans pray to. I'm sure It isn't a Cricket God, because that would be stupid.

I just used 'cricket' for comedic effect, never meaning to demean a fine religion like Wiccanism. The only thing I know about Wiccans is - their women are furry.

Nucular · 3rd September 2007, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy

His Cricket God gave him $49 million and you call it nonsense?!

Ah come on, after the tax man, his good lady wife, friends, family and inevitably whichever coven or something he belongs to have had their share, he'll be lucky to cover the cost of the tickets and his bus fare home! A better god (perhaps the chocolate god, or indeed the Devil again) would have just snuck it into an offshore account for him and quietly bumped everyone else off.

Quote:

The only thing I know about Wiccans is - their women are furry.

... and their grand high druids flllllaming.

ImaginalDisc · 3rd September 2007, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

Apparently they have spirits coming out of their wazoo. Which isn't as painful as it sounds...unless they pass the spirits of Orsen Wells and Raymond Burr.

Originally Posted by Tricky;

Wiccan is a variety of Pagan.

My head hurts.

triadboy · 3rd September 2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Nucular

A better god (perhaps the chocolate god,...

I pray to thee, Oh Great Rufus...

FireGarden · 4th September 2007, 03:52 AM

Quote:

He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki (RAY'kee) healing when they stopped at a liquor store and bought two $5 Mega Millions tickets for Friday night's estimated $330 million jackpot. On Sunday, he said one ticket was a winner.

Only one ticket won?
Surely either both tickets would have won, or he'd have been told/inspired to only buy one ticket. Or was the other ticket his sacrifice to show his true devotion?

And there were four winning tickets.
What are the other three secrets to winning? Why aren't we told?

kmortis · 4th September 2007, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

My head hurts.

ID,
Don't worry about it. Here's my Wicca for Dummies.

1) Think of them like you do Christians.
2) Take away all Christian Dogma (Golden Rule, Trinity et alia), and replace with Wiccan Dogma (Harm none)
3) Do ceremonies in the nude (optional)
4) Worship the Greek Pantheon (optional)
5) Worship the Egyptian Pantheon (optional)
6) Worship the Celtic Pantheon (optional, but recommended)
7) Worship the "Native American" pantheon (optional)
8) Worship the Norse Pantheon (optional and will get you confused with Asatru)
9) Worship other pantheon not previously named (optional)
10) Take a "Craft Name" to signify your seperation from the mehums. It helps if you use the term Lord or Lady as the first part of this name.
11) Drone on about the "Burning Times"
12) Preach religious tolerance for all religions except the Evil Christians who are the cause of the "Burning Times" and shall never be forgiven.

That'll get you a basic understanding.

To all Wiccans in the group. This is meant as parody and sarcasm. I spent many, many years living with Wiccans and participating in their ceremonies. Hell, I have an autographed copy of the Witches Bible. I'm just a bit soured by my experiences.

Tricky · 4th September 2007, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by kmortis

ID,
Don't worry about it. Here's my Wicca for Dummies.

1) Think of them like you do Christians.
2) Take away all Christian Dogma (Golden Rule, Trinity et alia), and replace with Wiccan Dogma (Harm none)
3) Do ceremonies in the nude (optional)
4) Worship the Greek Pantheon (optional)
5) Worship the Egyptian Pantheon (optional)
6) Worship the Celtic Pantheon (optional, but recommended)
7) Worship the "Native American" pantheon (optional)
8) Worship the Norse Pantheon (optional and will get you confused with Asatru)
9) Worship other pantheon not previously named (optional)
10) Take a "Craft Name" to signify your seperation from the mehums. It helps if you use the term Lord or Lady as the first part of this name.
11) Drone on about the "Burning Times"
12) Preach religious tolerance for all religions except the Evil Christians who are the cause of the "Burning Times" and shall never be forgiven.

That'll get you a basic understanding.

To all Wiccans in the group. This is meant as parody and sarcasm. I spent many, many years living with Wiccans and participating in their ceremonies. Hell, I have an autographed copy of the Witches Bible. I'm just a bit soured by my experiences.

LOL. That's pretty close to my experience, K-dead. I still have a lot of contact and occasionally go to Wiccan events with Ms. Tricky, but I keep my lips tightly sealed when they start "casting spells". Still, as religions go, it is one of the better ones. They even have a great sense of humor about themselves. Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts.

But as far as new-age woo, especially alternative medicine go, Wiccans are among the most gullible people I've ever met. Sad, because many of them are otherwise very rational. However, when you get one that is really over-the-top, they put most Christian loonies to shame. Still, at least they do so in a way that is mostly harmless, as opposed to Christian loonies.

Beerina · 4th September 2007, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by triadboy

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/...llions_jackpot

If he was Xian - it would be a "miracle".

Oh, it was! He thanks his gods or whatever. It looks like the God of Moses was far too weak to stop these other gods from making this guy teh winnah!!!

patrick767 · 4th September 2007, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts.

Isn't that the purpose of Unitarian churches? I've never been to one, but I might have to observe their gatherings sometime. From what I hear, many of them don't believe in God, or don't believe in a god in the Christian sense, but they have a church for the sense of community more than anything.
edit: a little reading indicates that I'm mistaken at least in part. Unitarians do worship God. Though their openness to skepticism tends to attract people who question it more.

On topic, it's funny how people credit their God/gods with making them win a lottery or any other positive result that has long odds. Long odds does not equal zero, so someone must win. I see no evidence to indicate that winners are the neediest or the most virtuous people. As one would expect from chance, sometimes they are quite the opposite. And yet... $deity still gets the credit. huh.

kmortis · 4th September 2007, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

LOL. That's pretty close to my experience, K-dead. I still have a lot of contact and occasionally go to Wiccan events with Ms. Tricky, but I keep my lips tightly sealed when they start "casting spells". Still, as religions go, it is one of the better ones. They even have a great sense of humor about themselves. Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts.

But as far as new-age woo, especially alternative medicine go, Wiccans are among the most gullible people I've ever met. Sad, because many of them are otherwise very rational. However, when you get one that is really over-the-top, they put most Christian loonies to shame. Still, at least they do so in a way that is mostly harmless, as opposed to Christian loonies.

True. I have a bit more of a bitter experience, probably coming from having been involved in Wiccan politcs in Salem, MA. Harm none? HA! Those bastards would harm their own grandmothers if they thought it would impress Laurie Cabot.

The big problem I have with Wiccans (in particular) and Pagans (in general) is their unwillingness to look critically at some of the claims. I hoped that it would be different with such a new religion, but I guess it's a religious universal - don't investigate too closely.

kmortis · 4th September 2007, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by patrick767

Isn't that the purpose of Unitarian churches? I've never been to one, but I might have to observe their gatherings sometime. From what I hear, many of them don't believe in God, or don't believe in a god in the Christian sense, but they have a church for the sense of community more than anything.

this is both true and false. As Upchurch is fond of saying, "if you've seen one UU church, you've seen one UU church." Every congragation is different, although all follow the same set of core beliefs which can basically be summed up in the word "tolerance". If you have a UU church in the area, I recommend going and having a looksee. If you have two, go to both, they will be different. See if it's for you. For me, it's not a thing that I wish to particpate in on a regular basis, so I don't. Mama Mortis likes it, so she goes.

Nucular · 4th September 2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by kmortis

The big problem I have with Wiccans (in particular) and Pagans (in general) is their unwillingness to look critically at some of the claims. I hoped that it would be different with such a new religion, but I guess it's a religious universal - don't investigate too closely.

Never having been part of an 'organised' version of paganism (but having been quite heavily into my own disorganised version), the thing that irritated me about other pagans/wiccans was (still is) the pervasive idea that in fact what they're doing is ancient. Just this idea on its own I could probably have put up with, but it's the complete lack of interest in any actual history that got me - start waving history books around instead of trite new age fairy tales by the likes of DJ Conway, and you get looked at as though you're reading Posh Spice's autobiography, but they'll still claim that what they're doing is 'authentic' or 'prechristian'.

Most Wiccans seem to have no clue who Gardner was, and would probably burn you at the stake for suggested their religion was invented by someone called Gerald.

kmortis · 4th September 2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Nucular

Never having been part of an 'organised' version of paganism (but having been quite heavily into my own disorganised version), the thing that irritated me about other pagans/wiccans was (still is) the pervasive idea that in fact what they're doing is ancient. Just this idea on its own I could probably have put up with, but it's the complete lack of interest in any actual history that got me - start waving history books around instead of trite new age fairy tales by the likes of DJ Conway, and you get looked at as though you're reading Posh Spice's autobiography, but they'll still claim that what they're doing is 'authentic' or 'prechristian'.

Most Wiccans seem to have no clue who Gardner was, and would probably burn you at the stake for suggested their religion was invented by someone called Gerald.

Can we all just snicker together? I guess that when you're 15, the 1950's IS ancient history.

Actually, the Wiccan Big Wigs^tm that I had teh honor to meet were really cool people. Janet Farrar and Gavin Bone and Oberon Zell were all really nice people, and really honest about the religion. It doens't matter that they say that it all started with the Old Pervert, it's Olde Tyme Religion^tm.

I was the designated Discordian Firetender. They didn't have to listen to me, but if they wanted warmth, they HAD to humor me. In the coven that I was most associated with, they didn't get into it being an ancient craft. They were perfectly happy with it being modern. They figured that everything has to start somewhere.

Salem, OTOH, REALLY gets into the older the better ideal. Load o' crap, really. although, the Horrible Chocolate cookies on Fisherman's Warf and the brewery are both worth the trip. Just not at the end of October.

Tiktaalik · 4th September 2007, 06:39 PM

patrick767, Unitarians don't "worship God" - or "worship" anything - particularly as there is no UU definition or set of attributes that they all agree constitute a god, so it would be impossible to worship together, except in the sense that Quakers do. UUs ascribe to a set of Seven Principles ("covenant to affirm and promote"...see uua dot org or uuworld dot org or search engine for Unitarian Universalists). Many UUs are athiests or agnostics or believe in some nebulous "holy glue" rather than a deity, and a recent survey showed that 90% of UUs don't consider themselves Christians (even though both Unitarianism & Universalism originally were offshoots of mainstream Christianity).

However, you are right that one of the purposes of UU fellowships is to provide community for those who want to associate with others who think similarly to themselves.

Derail, sorry. I actually think it's cool that someone identifying as a Wiccan won the lottery. At least it's a change.

kmortis · 4th September 2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

Derail, sorry. I actually think it's cool that someone identifying as a Wiccan won the lottery. At least it's a change.

True. Wiccans are as prone to having bad math skills as the rest of humanity.

Big Les · 5th September 2007, 03:46 AM

The false antiquity of Wicca gets on my nerves too, mostly because my partner is one and seems to buy Gardner's line about there being a "Practical Magic" style maternal tradition that somehow kept prehistoric belief systems and rituals alive despite the evil Xtians. They tend to also buy into the idea that every person accused of witchcraft in the "mania" of the C17th actually was one, and not some poor schmuck who was the victim of malicious gossip.

The "Wise Women", "Cunning Men", and folk superstitions that they draw upon were of course christian. Though I suppose some of the notions might pre-date christianity. Oral tradition leaving no evidence, and all that. Certainly given the hate-on christian authorities had for anything perceived as witchcraft, the superstitions seem unlikely to have originated with christianity. But perhaps they arose (or evolved from earlier ideas) despite it?

Precious few accept the reality of a modern, constructed religion with a traditional (as opposed to factual) history ascribed to it. The same is apparently true of many Freemasons today who don't realise that their traditional histories weren't meant to be (or shouldn't be) believed literally.

This site is brilliant. I often think that if I had to join a religion or embrace a spirituality, it would be something rather like this - essentially a nature-orientated gnosticism with a lot of dogma thrown out and some cool mythology. Of course as time goes on, all new dogma gets added in. My partner doesn't much like "Wicca" as an organised religion. From that site's page on the antiquity of Wicca:

Quote:

The late Dr. Margaret Murray traced back and saw Witchcraft's origins in Palaeolithic [sic] times: 25,000 years ago. She saw it as a more or less unbroken line through the present, and as a fully organized religion throughout western Europe for centuries before Christianity.1

Unfortunately, the late Dr. Margaret Murray also didn't know what she was talking about.

Tricky · 5th September 2007, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by kmortis

True. Wiccans are as prone to having bad math skills as the rest of humanity.

Well, if I have to give this guy some credit, at least he didn't use some magical "number code" to select his numbers. He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math.

kmortis · 5th September 2007, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Well, if I have to give this guy some credit, at least he didn't use some magical "number code" to select his numbers. He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math.

I dunno. How heavy are those ping pong balls?

And you never know. He could have used a numerology program.

triadboy · 5th September 2007, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math.

That's the key! Liquor Store Gods!

ImaginalDisc · 5th September 2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy

That's the key! Liquor Store Gods!

Bacchus does help people get lucky, now that you mention it.

kmortis · 5th September 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Bacchus does help people get lucky, now that you mention it.

Yeah, but you do NOT want to be the guy at the Bacchalian.

triadboy · 5th September 2007, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by kmortis

Yeah, but you do NOT want to be the guy at the Bacchalian.

OK, I'll bite - I know he's drunk and probably naked - what else happens?

ImaginalDisc · 5th September 2007, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy;

OK, I'll bite - I know he's drunk and probably naked - what else happens?

If Euripides's The Bacchae is any guide, the Maenads killed him, and tore of fhis head.

sophia8 · 6th September 2007, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

If Euripides's The Bacchae is any guide, the Maenads killed him, and tore of fhis head.

No, no, it wasn't his head they tore off......

kmortis · 6th September 2007, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by sophia8

No, no, it wasn't his head they tore off......

Well...eventually it was.

Beerina · 6th September 2007, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by triadboy

He apparently made an internal spiritual pact with a power - similar to what Cat Stevens did.

Cat Stevens: Hello, God.

God: Hello. Really, you can call me "Allah".

Cat Stevens: Ok, Gah...Allah. Ummm, I'm not so happy.

God: Why is that, my son?

Cat Stevens: Well, my career is going fine, I have some hit songs. I just feel...I don't know.

God: Too worthy?

Cat Stevens: Ya! How'd ya know? Oh, hehe, heh heh.

God: And what do you think?

Cat Stevens: Well, I'll make you a deal. You turn me into a gibbering idiot, crush my career, and make me full of hate and rage, and I'll, um, be that gibbering idiot calling out your name loudly?

God: Granted. Arise, my son.

Yousef Islam: Gnarley!

triadboy · 6th September 2007, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Cat Stevens:

Actually he's a trainwreck Muslim. He was swimming off the California coast and got caught in some undertow or something. And then he said "God if you save me I will devote my life to you." (Don't EVER say that) A wave came along and he was stuck.

3rd September 2007, 10:47 AM	#1
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Wicca teacher claims 1 Mega ticket http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/...llions_jackpot Quote: He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki (RAY'kee) healing when they stopped at a liquor store and bought two $5 Mega Millions tickets for Friday night's estimated $330 million jackpot. On Sunday, he said one ticket was a winner. If he was Xian - it would be a "miracle".

3rd September 2007, 03:52 PM	#3
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by triadboy; He apparently made an internal spiritual pact with a power - similar to what Cat Stevens did. So who made out better? Mr. I-won-$49-million-dollars? Or Mr. I-gotta-wear-this-beard? I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits. Other silliness, yes.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

3rd September 2007, 04:10 PM	#4
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,067	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits. Other silliness, yes. I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

3rd September 2007, 04:13 PM	#5
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by LibraryLady; I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods. Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan? Why am I trying to make sense of this?
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

3rd September 2007, 05:16 PM	#8
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,067	Here's the video.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

3rd September 2007, 01:38 PM	#2
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	He apparently made an internal spiritual pact with a power - similar to what Cat Stevens did. So who made out better? Mr. I-won-$49-million-dollars? Or Mr. I-gotta-wear-this-beard?

3rd September 2007, 04:41 PM	#6
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan? He may be a cross between a Wiccan and a Pagan....a Pecan. Quote: Why am I trying to make sense of this? Because you're a good person.

3rd September 2007, 05:05 PM	#7
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,348	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Wait, is he Wiccan, or Pagan? Why am I trying to make sense of this? Wiccan is a variety of Pagan.

3rd September 2007, 06:04 PM	#9
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	Quote: Bartlett, an accountant from Dundalk, said he made a bargain with the multiple gods associated with his Wiccan beliefs: "You let me win the lottery and I'll teach." Wasn't he teaching anyway? How dumb are those gods? At least the Devil writes his own contracts.
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

3rd September 2007, 06:08 PM	#10
DoubtingStephen Queer Propagandist Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,548	Originally Posted by LibraryLady I saw him interviewed on local TV. He asked several different gods. Well which one of them was the One True God?
	__________________ God Hates Mixed Fibers God Hates Barbers God Hates Crustaceans

3rd September 2007, 06:16 PM	#11
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,067	Originally Posted by Nucular Wasn't he teaching anyway? How dumb are those gods? At least the Devil writes his own contracts. No. He was a bookkeeper. He wanted to teach.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

3rd September 2007, 06:20 PM	#12
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by LibraryLady No. He was a bookkeeper. He wanted to teach. From the link in the OP: Quote: He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki It might be teaching nonsense, but it's still teaching. And anyway, what kind of a deal is that? "If you let me win the lottery, I promise to do something I'd really quite like to do as well".
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

3rd September 2007, 06:24 PM	#13
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc I'm pretty sure Wiccans don't claim to contact spirits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca Quote: The deities of Wicca are understood as embodiments of a life-force manifest in nature. Apparently they have spirits coming out of their wazoo. Which isn't as painful as it sounds...unless they pass the spirits of Orsen Wells and Raymond Burr.

3rd September 2007, 08:59 PM	#14
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by Nucular It might be teaching nonsense, but... His Cricket God gave him $49 million and you call it nonsense?! *********** Disclaimer: I actually don't know what Wiccans pray to. I'm sure It isn't a Cricket God, because that would be stupid. I just used 'cricket' for comedic effect, never meaning to demean a fine religion like Wiccanism. The only thing I know about Wiccans is - their women are furry.

3rd September 2007, 09:14 PM	#15
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by triadboy His Cricket God gave him $49 million and you call it nonsense?! Ah come on, after the tax man, his good lady wife, friends, family and inevitably whichever coven or something he belongs to have had their share, he'll be lucky to cover the cost of the tickets and his bus fare home! A better god (perhaps the chocolate god, or indeed the Devil again) would have just snuck it into an offshore account for him and quietly bumped everyone else off. Quote: The only thing I know about Wiccans is - their women are furry. ... and their grand high druids flllllaming.
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

3rd September 2007, 09:22 PM	#16
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by triadboy; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca Apparently they have spirits coming out of their wazoo. Which isn't as painful as it sounds...unless they pass the spirits of Orsen Wells and Raymond Burr. Originally Posted by Tricky; Wiccan is a variety of Pagan. My head hurts.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

3rd September 2007, 09:50 PM	#17
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by Nucular A better god (perhaps the chocolate god,... I pray to thee, Oh Great Rufus...

4th September 2007, 03:52 AM	#18
FireGarden Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Spannungsbogen -- without a visa Posts: 5,043	Quote: He and his wife, Denise, were on their way to the shop where he occasionally teaches Wicca and Reiki (RAY'kee) healing when they stopped at a liquor store and bought two $5 Mega Millions tickets for Friday night's estimated $330 million jackpot. On Sunday, he said one ticket was a winner. Only one ticket won? Surely either both tickets would have won, or he'd have been told/inspired to only buy one ticket. Or was the other ticket his sacrifice to show his true devotion? And there were four winning tickets. What are the other three secrets to winning? Why aren't we told?
	__________________ When Americans talk about freedom, it’s our secular code word for salvation. There’s no salvation outside the church; there’s no freedom outside the American way of life. -- James Carroll B'tselem Tony Karon's blog

4th September 2007, 05:58 AM	#19
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc My head hurts. ID, Don't worry about it. Here's my Wicca for Dummies. 1) Think of them like you do Christians. 2) Take away all Christian Dogma (Golden Rule, Trinity et alia), and replace with Wiccan Dogma (Harm none) 3) Do ceremonies in the nude (optional) 4) Worship the Greek Pantheon (optional) 5) Worship the Egyptian Pantheon (optional) 6) Worship the Celtic Pantheon (optional, but recommended) 7) Worship the "Native American" pantheon (optional) 8) Worship the Norse Pantheon (optional and will get you confused with Asatru) 9) Worship other pantheon not previously named (optional) 10) Take a "Craft Name" to signify your seperation from the mehums. It helps if you use the term Lord or Lady as the first part of this name. 11) Drone on about the "Burning Times" 12) Preach religious tolerance for all religions except the Evil Christians who are the cause of the "Burning Times" and shall never be forgiven. That'll get you a basic understanding. To all Wiccans in the group. This is meant as parody and sarcasm. I spent many, many years living with Wiccans and participating in their ceremonies. Hell, I have an autographed copy of the Witches Bible. I'm just a bit soured by my experiences.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

4th September 2007, 06:51 AM	#20
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,348	Originally Posted by kmortis ID, Don't worry about it. Here's my Wicca for Dummies. 1) Think of them like you do Christians. 2) Take away all Christian Dogma (Golden Rule, Trinity et alia), and replace with Wiccan Dogma (Harm none) 3) Do ceremonies in the nude (optional) 4) Worship the Greek Pantheon (optional) 5) Worship the Egyptian Pantheon (optional) 6) Worship the Celtic Pantheon (optional, but recommended) 7) Worship the "Native American" pantheon (optional) 8) Worship the Norse Pantheon (optional and will get you confused with Asatru) 9) Worship other pantheon not previously named (optional) 10) Take a "Craft Name" to signify your seperation from the mehums. It helps if you use the term Lord or Lady as the first part of this name. 11) Drone on about the "Burning Times" 12) Preach religious tolerance for all religions except the Evil Christians who are the cause of the "Burning Times" and shall never be forgiven. That'll get you a basic understanding. To all Wiccans in the group. This is meant as parody and sarcasm. I spent many, many years living with Wiccans and participating in their ceremonies. Hell, I have an autographed copy of the Witches Bible. I'm just a bit soured by my experiences. LOL. That's pretty close to my experience, K-dead. I still have a lot of contact and occasionally go to Wiccan events with Ms. Tricky, but I keep my lips tightly sealed when they start "casting spells". Still, as religions go, it is one of the better ones. They even have a great sense of humor about themselves. Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts. But as far as new-age woo, especially alternative medicine go, Wiccans are among the most gullible people I've ever met. Sad, because many of them are otherwise very rational. However, when you get one that is really over-the-top, they put most Christian loonies to shame. Still, at least they do so in a way that is mostly harmless, as opposed to Christian loonies.

4th September 2007, 07:04 AM	#21
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by triadboy http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/...llions_jackpot If he was Xian - it would be a "miracle". Oh, it was! He thanks his gods or whatever. It looks like the God of Moses was far too weak to stop these other gods from making this guy teh winnah!!!
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

4th September 2007, 07:21 AM	#22
patrick767 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 194	Originally Posted by Tricky Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts. Isn't that the purpose of Unitarian churches? I've never been to one, but I might have to observe their gatherings sometime. From what I hear, many of them don't believe in God, or don't believe in a god in the Christian sense, but they have a church for the sense of community more than anything. edit: a little reading indicates that I'm mistaken at least in part. Unitarians do worship God. Though their openness to skepticism tends to attract people who question it more. On topic, it's funny how people credit their God/gods with making them win a lottery or any other positive result that has long odds. Long odds does not equal zero, so someone must win. I see no evidence to indicate that winners are the neediest or the most virtuous people. As one would expect from chance, sometimes they are quite the opposite. And yet... $deity still gets the credit. huh.
patrick767 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 194	Last edited by patrick767; 4th September 2007 at 07:28 AM.

4th September 2007, 07:26 AM	#23
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by Tricky LOL. That's pretty close to my experience, K-dead. I still have a lot of contact and occasionally go to Wiccan events with Ms. Tricky, but I keep my lips tightly sealed when they start "casting spells". Still, as religions go, it is one of the better ones. They even have a great sense of humor about themselves. Some of them have even confided to me that they know it is BS, but they like the ceremony and the comraderie. Others have said it helps them "organize" their thoughts. But as far as new-age woo, especially alternative medicine go, Wiccans are among the most gullible people I've ever met. Sad, because many of them are otherwise very rational. However, when you get one that is really over-the-top, they put most Christian loonies to shame. Still, at least they do so in a way that is mostly harmless, as opposed to Christian loonies. True. I have a bit more of a bitter experience, probably coming from having been involved in Wiccan politcs in Salem, MA. Harm none? HA! Those bastards would harm their own grandmothers if they thought it would impress Laurie Cabot. The big problem I have with Wiccans (in particular) and Pagans (in general) is their unwillingness to look critically at some of the claims. I hoped that it would be different with such a new religion, but I guess it's a religious universal - don't investigate too closely.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

4th September 2007, 07:29 AM	#24
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by patrick767 Isn't that the purpose of Unitarian churches? I've never been to one, but I might have to observe their gatherings sometime. From what I hear, many of them don't believe in God, or don't believe in a god in the Christian sense, but they have a church for the sense of community more than anything. this is both true and false. As Upchurch is fond of saying, "if you've seen one UU church, you've seen one UU church." Every congragation is different, although all follow the same set of core beliefs which can basically be summed up in the word "tolerance". If you have a UU church in the area, I recommend going and having a looksee. If you have two, go to both, they will be different. See if it's for you. For me, it's not a thing that I wish to particpate in on a regular basis, so I don't. Mama Mortis likes it, so she goes.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

4th September 2007, 01:59 PM	#25
Nucular Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brane 6, Brahman's Dream Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by kmortis The big problem I have with Wiccans (in particular) and Pagans (in general) is their unwillingness to look critically at some of the claims. I hoped that it would be different with such a new religion, but I guess it's a religious universal - don't investigate too closely. Never having been part of an 'organised' version of paganism (but having been quite heavily into my own disorganised version), the thing that irritated me about other pagans/wiccans was (still is) the pervasive idea that in fact what they're doing is ancient. Just this idea on its own I could probably have put up with, but it's the complete lack of interest in any actual history that got me - start waving history books around instead of trite new age fairy tales by the likes of DJ Conway, and you get looked at as though you're reading Posh Spice's autobiography, but they'll still claim that what they're doing is 'authentic' or 'prechristian'. Most Wiccans seem to have no clue who Gardner was, and would probably burn you at the stake for suggested their religion was invented by someone called Gerald.
	__________________ From the UK? Sceptical? Like forums? Well my psychic powers tell me that the UK Skeptics' Forum is for you - 8 out of 10 sceptics demand to know where these figures came from. Non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli (Flen Flyys, c.15th Century) Get out of my head, Nucular (kmortis)

4th September 2007, 04:03 PM	#26
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by Nucular Never having been part of an 'organised' version of paganism (but having been quite heavily into my own disorganised version), the thing that irritated me about other pagans/wiccans was (still is) the pervasive idea that in fact what they're doing is ancient. Just this idea on its own I could probably have put up with, but it's the complete lack of interest in any actual history that got me - start waving history books around instead of trite new age fairy tales by the likes of DJ Conway, and you get looked at as though you're reading Posh Spice's autobiography, but they'll still claim that what they're doing is 'authentic' or 'prechristian'. Most Wiccans seem to have no clue who Gardner was, and would probably burn you at the stake for suggested their religion was invented by someone called Gerald. Can we all just snicker together? I guess that when you're 15, the 1950's IS ancient history. Actually, the Wiccan Big Wigs^tm that I had teh honor to meet were really cool people. Janet Farrar and Gavin Bone and Oberon Zell were all really nice people, and really honest about the religion. It doens't matter that they say that it all started with the Old Pervert, it's Olde Tyme Religion^tm. I was the designated Discordian Firetender. They didn't have to listen to me, but if they wanted warmth, they HAD to humor me. In the coven that I was most associated with, they didn't get into it being an ancient craft. They were perfectly happy with it being modern. They figured that everything has to start somewhere. Salem, OTOH, REALLY gets into the older the better ideal. Load o' crap, really. although, the Horrible Chocolate cookies on Fisherman's Warf and the brewery are both worth the trip. Just not at the end of October.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

4th September 2007, 06:39 PM	#27
Tiktaalik Half True Scotsperson Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,981	patrick767, Unitarians don't "worship God" - or "worship" anything - particularly as there is no UU definition or set of attributes that they all agree constitute a god, so it would be impossible to worship together, except in the sense that Quakers do. UUs ascribe to a set of Seven Principles ("covenant to affirm and promote"...see uua dot org or uuworld dot org or search engine for Unitarian Universalists). Many UUs are athiests or agnostics or believe in some nebulous "holy glue" rather than a deity, and a recent survey showed that 90% of UUs don't consider themselves Christians (even though both Unitarianism & Universalism originally were offshoots of mainstream Christianity). However, you are right that one of the purposes of UU fellowships is to provide community for those who want to associate with others who think similarly to themselves. Derail, sorry. I actually think it's cool that someone identifying as a Wiccan won the lottery. At least it's a change.

4th September 2007, 06:45 PM	#28
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by Tiktaalik Derail, sorry. I actually think it's cool that someone identifying as a Wiccan won the lottery. At least it's a change. True. Wiccans are as prone to having bad math skills as the rest of humanity.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

5th September 2007, 03:46 AM	#29
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	The false antiquity of Wicca gets on my nerves too, mostly because my partner is one and seems to buy Gardner's line about there being a "Practical Magic" style maternal tradition that somehow kept prehistoric belief systems and rituals alive despite the evil Xtians. They tend to also buy into the idea that every person accused of witchcraft in the "mania" of the C17th actually was one, and not some poor schmuck who was the victim of malicious gossip. The "Wise Women", "Cunning Men", and folk superstitions that they draw upon were of course christian. Though I suppose some of the notions might pre-date christianity. Oral tradition leaving no evidence, and all that. Certainly given the hate-on christian authorities had for anything perceived as witchcraft, the superstitions seem unlikely to have originated with christianity. But perhaps they arose (or evolved from earlier ideas) despite it? Precious few accept the reality of a modern, constructed religion with a traditional (as opposed to factual) history ascribed to it. The same is apparently true of many Freemasons today who don't realise that their traditional histories weren't meant to be (or shouldn't be) believed literally. This site is brilliant. I often think that if I had to join a religion or embrace a spirituality, it would be something rather like this - essentially a nature-orientated gnosticism with a lot of dogma thrown out and some cool mythology. Of course as time goes on, all new dogma gets added in. My partner doesn't much like "Wicca" as an organised religion. From that site's page on the antiquity of Wicca: Quote: The late Dr. Margaret Murray traced back and saw Witchcraft's origins in Palaeolithic [sic] times: 25,000 years ago. She saw it as a more or less unbroken line through the present, and as a fully organized religion throughout western Europe for centuries before Christianity.1 Unfortunately, the late Dr. Margaret Murray also didn't know what she was talking about.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

5th September 2007, 07:16 AM	#30
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,348	Originally Posted by kmortis True. Wiccans are as prone to having bad math skills as the rest of humanity. Well, if I have to give this guy some credit, at least he didn't use some magical "number code" to select his numbers. He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math.

5th September 2007, 08:11 AM	#31
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by Tricky Well, if I have to give this guy some credit, at least he didn't use some magical "number code" to select his numbers. He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math. I dunno. How heavy are those ping pong balls? And you never know. He could have used a numerology program.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

5th September 2007, 12:03 PM	#32
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by Tricky He let the computer pick them and trusted his gods to do the heavy math. That's the key! Liquor Store Gods!

5th September 2007, 12:15 PM	#33
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by triadboy That's the key! Liquor Store Gods! Bacchus does help people get lucky, now that you mention it.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

5th September 2007, 02:29 PM	#34
kmortis Biomechanoid Director of IDIOCY (Region 13) Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Texas Posts: 24,555	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc Bacchus does help people get lucky, now that you mention it. Yeah, but you do NOT want to be the guy at the Bacchalian.
	__________________ -Aberhaten did it - "Which gives us an answer to our question. What’s the worst thing that can happen in a pressure cooker?" Randall Monroe -Director of Independent Determining Inquisitor Of Crazy Yapping - Aberhaten's Apothegm™ - An Internet law that states that optimism is indistinguishable from sarcasm

5th September 2007, 04:11 PM	#35
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by kmortis Yeah, but you do NOT want to be the guy at the Bacchalian. OK, I'll bite - I know he's drunk and probably naked - what else happens?