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Tags truthers , louder than words , ground zero

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Old 6th September 2007, 10:55 PM   #1
CHF
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My trip to Ground Zero

A couple weeks back I was lucky enough to be in NYC with my girlfriend and some pals on vacation. What an amazing city! Stunning sites, sounds, museums, restaurants…and kooks.

On Saturday Aug 25th, despite a nasty cold, I headed down to Ground Zero for a chat with the truthers. Now I know the camera work here is pretty bad but I recorded primarily for use by a radio station so video wasn't my main concern. I've posted my clips individually since I haven't the talent nor the patience to put it all together in a movie. I didn't film all that I would have liked (not enough space on my card) but I got enough to capture the logic on display.

I spent a good hour or so with these folks; some were polite, some were complete punks, and it was difficult at times to not get annoyed at hearing the same claims for the 500th time.

The first guy I talked to was a younger member whose narrative of 9/11 was "we don't know." He simply wanted his questioned answered and yet seemed oblivious to the fact that they already had been. For example, WCT7 and "pull it"

So he's unaware of the Implosion World paper, and unaware of what Silverstein and the FDNY say about "pull it" – but if they have in fact answered his questions then he'd like them to reiterate their statements at a press conference; then he might believe it.

Just like in cyberspace, this was to be a re-occurring theme. These people simply haven't looked for the answers they claim to seek and when presented with the answers, it still isn't enough.

Next up to bat was an older member of the group, on WTC7/Madrid Fire/FDNY/9/11 Commission Report. It was obvious that he was hearing every counter-point for the first time.

Ever wonder how truthers do their research? Every wonder why so few experts speak out? Wonder no more.

That bearded guy at the end was a real piece of work. He later complained about how the government and media treat truthers "like we’re children" and then went on to call me a "shill," "Satan" and made a remark about wanting to meet me in a dark alley somewhere. Children indeed.

The guy he directed me to was this next fella, who explained how all sources outside of truther circles are compromised and used some good ol' circular logic to explain how experts and witnesses are scared into silence.

Yup, the fact that more professors, family members and first responders aren't coming out is in itself proof that they're being intimidated. After all, why else would they not come forward?

Then we got into specifics on the issue of demolition experts, and you know where that leads.

So who's an expert on non-conventional demolitions? "Independent research. Get off the government payroll!" Good answer, bro.

He later delivered another classic. What's a pyroclastic flow? It's "dust from an explosion." As for it being a volcanic term, that I was apparently "making up."

He soon walked away leaving the other two to face the ever troublesome Iraq/WMD question. Had to be persistent in order to get an answer but I got one.

During most of my stay, a team of Italian filmmakers (truthers) were shooting their own video and the local truthers were anxious to put on a good show. With a crowd of perhaps 20 truthers standing around me, a very loud fella started screaming about how firefighters had reported "explosions" and presented a binder full of their statements. How many FDNY had he contacted? No answer, just more screaming.

He then made the mistake of talking about how the lobbies of the towers had been blown out. "So why did the same thing happen when the Empire State Building was struck by a B-25?" I asked. Amazingly, none of them were aware of this even though some claimed to have read the Popular Mechanics book which has a picture of the blackened ESB lobby after flaming debris had crashed down an elevator shaft. The guy who'd been screaming at me even made the Dylanesque blunder of saying the plane was a B-52!

Not all truthers were such blowhards. It must be said that the guy from the fifth clip who works in "3D animation and physics" was a class act and we were able to have a civilized discussion, despite the objections of Mr. don't-treat-us-like-the-children-we-clearly-are.

I did get some answers about the Pentagon that left me a bit puzzled though. Sorry again for the crappy camera work.

Why replace Flight 77 with something else?

What about all those eyewitnesses?

While we were chatting, some woman who appeared to be strung out on drugs was wandering around muttering incoherent nonsense and asking truthers for change. He insisted that she wasn't one of them and then expressed some surprise that I wasn't filming her. Why would I film her if she wasn't a truther? Why in order to pretend she was a truther, of course – that way I could make the rest of them appear nutty.

No need, my friend. No need.

Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad?

Well, they've made a few movies that way so far...

Last edited by CHF; 6th September 2007 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 6th September 2007, 11:14 PM   #2
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I watched a few but it's hard for me to watch this stuff.

The "get off the government payrole" guy made me stop listening when he said "Do you know about the law of angular momentum? Do you know about the law of inertia?".

The law of inertia? Oh my.
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Old 6th September 2007, 11:16 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Anti-sophist View Post
I watched a few but it's hard for me to watch this stuff.
It's even harder to watch live and in-person, I assure you.
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Old 6th September 2007, 11:56 PM   #4
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VERY nice work CHF. You seriously did a good job. You can tell that you really do know your stuff and they simply looked foolish. Way to go.
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Old 6th September 2007, 11:57 PM   #5
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Nice choice of video category
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:02 AM   #6
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I've only watched one so far- I have to hit the rest up tomorrow, but EXCELLENT work, CHF.

Kudos.
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:20 AM   #7
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But was the LIHOP/MIHOP song guy there?
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:22 AM   #8
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Call me crazy but the guy with the nose ring may have lived a little to close to powerlines at somepoint.
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Old 7th September 2007, 03:59 AM   #9
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I'm impressed, but curious about one thing; why didn't you ever correct people when they said the towers fell at freefall speed?

Otherwise, I find that to be an excellent example of the level of research and capability the twoofers have.
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Old 7th September 2007, 04:07 AM   #10
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Thanks for your efforts and documentation. It can't be easy being surrounded by all these ignorant non-researchers. Sounded like a mad man gathering. I can't see the videos at work, but I will watch them eventually.
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Old 7th September 2007, 04:13 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
.....snip.....
I did get some answers about the Pentagon that left me a bit puzzled though.....snip.. ...


What, you mean that Godzilla did it?
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Old 7th September 2007, 04:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
[font=Verdana][size=2]

<rather large snip of some good stuff>

Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad?

Well, they've made a few movies that way so far...
These people sound more and more like Scientologists with every report I see/hear about them.
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Old 7th September 2007, 04:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse View Post
What, you mean that Godzilla did it?

Everyone knows it was invisible Godzilla.
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Old 7th September 2007, 05:04 AM   #14
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That was great, CHF. There's nothing like a good laugh to start off the day.
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Old 7th September 2007, 05:29 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
I'm impressed, but curious about one thing; why didn't you ever correct people when they said the towers fell at freefall speed?
I corrected them a few times including at 2:26 of clip #5 when I pointed out that debris was clearly falling faster than the towers, to which he responds that the towers were actually going faster than the debris!
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Old 7th September 2007, 05:47 AM   #16
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I have to congratulate you on your stamina. Back when I was a young man, I attended a few revival meetings with a couple of friends, just for laughs. Sitting there and listening to the bs with a straight face is a huge energy drain. This is one reason why I appreciate you putting this on youtube -- now I can have all the fun I have the stomach for, and yet the idiots disappear with one mouse click when I've had enough.
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Old 7th September 2007, 05:50 AM   #17
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Very nice work, CHF. I'm surprised no one seemed to know about the Protec Paper...and that the Towers were actually falling FASTER than the debris. Wow. Just wow. I'm not sure how the NWO pulled that off.
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Old 7th September 2007, 05:54 AM   #18
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I'll have to check these videos out when I get home from work tonight, from the comments so far though seems to be good stuff.
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Old 7th September 2007, 06:04 AM   #19
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Excellent job CHF.

I can't believe they're still chanting "virtual free fall speed" as if that means anything. Now I know why their "movement" will probably never die. They just keep saying the same things over and over which ultimately brings in more "newbies" who are ignorant that all of it has been answered and debunked. The truthers are like a cult that attract the weak. They will never run out of people to recruit.

Also, the "never before in the history of the world has a steel framed building collapsed due to fire" is a semi-powerful "hook" to those uninformed. I can see how that chant alone could suck in a couple of people here and there. The next week the new sheep are out there chanting the same thing.

Your answers were, of course, concise and spot on. Two big thumbs up to you my friend for doing your part.
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Old 7th September 2007, 06:15 AM   #20
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Wow CHF! Amazing job on keeping your patience. Well done with your conciseness. I would be happy to buy you a drink sometime (Non-alcoholic if you don't drink)!
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Old 7th September 2007, 06:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
It's even harder to watch live and in-person, I assure you.
You are a better man than I. I could not control myself in that situation. My daughter lives in the East Village and my wife is going in to see her tomorrow but I will not go because I do not want to run into some of them as they mill about. I know me and I will punch one of them. Discretion being the better part of valor I will stay home and avoid them.
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Old 7th September 2007, 06:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Calcas View Post
Excellent job CHF.

I can't believe they're still chanting "virtual free fall speed" as if that means anything.
Speaking of which, I asked a few of them how much the top portion of each tower weighed (40,000 tons, 120,000 tons).

They didn't have a clue.
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Old 7th September 2007, 07:32 AM   #23
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Great job CHF. If I had known you were gonna be in the city I would have met up with you and bought you a drink
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Old 7th September 2007, 07:51 AM   #24
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Great stuff. I'll be passing these around.

"Have you contacted any demoliton experts?"
(5 minute long version of "no")
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:07 AM   #25
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I can't stop laughing. AWESOME job! IS there anymore coming???
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:15 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
It's even harder to watch live and in-person, I assure you.
You have found the dumbest Americans, those few who are in 9/11 truth. We have them on display at ground zero. They thought it was a convention for zeros. They all came.

good video, really dumb people
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:35 AM   #27
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CHF I finally got a chance to view all of them. You did a phenomenal job. You have the patience of Job.
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Drs_Res View Post
These people sound more and more like Scientologists with every report I see/hear about them.
The cult of woo. It has amazing powers.

Alex Jones will be doing his Jim Jones impersonation any day now.
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:40 AM   #29
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speaking of scientologists...
[shameful plug]
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

[/shameful plug]

Ever notice how untimley passings for both groups are always mysterious and questionable?
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Old 7th September 2007, 09:04 AM   #30
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Ahhh... the idiots up close. Great job CHF!

The camera work isn't bad at all.
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Old 7th September 2007, 10:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mr.Herbert View Post
I can't stop laughing. AWESOME job! IS there anymore coming???
Perhaps a few. I got audio of the pyroclastic flow comment and a brief clip of that same guy saying how close-minded I am, to which the older fella says "yeah, I would have to agree." I could barely hold in the laughter.

The truthers actually recorded far more than I did. I'd love to see a clip of that Empire State Building lobby/B-52 moment. The brief awkward silence was absolutely priceless.
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Old 7th September 2007, 10:05 AM   #32
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It's a little disconcerting to see them spout the same garbage as two years ago. They're still at it with the "pull it" thing?
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Old 7th September 2007, 10:12 AM   #33
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Good job, CHF! My gosh, there is a lot of linkable stuff here today! We'll put your videos up on SLC later this afternoon.
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Old 7th September 2007, 10:28 AM   #34
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More. I say more.

This was perfect. Best way to get these guys is to let them hang themselves.
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:46 PM   #35
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Well done CHF...we may have a Gravy protege in the making...lol

You were calm, patient, reasonable, and you made it quite clear that when the average truther is confronted face to face on the issues, they really do exhibit a sparse knowledge, and very limited synthesis of the information.

TAM
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:49 PM   #36
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Where's YOUR face, CHF?
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:50 PM   #37
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Come see me, CHF. I am in NYC this weekend.
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:53 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Where's YOUR face, CHF?
On his skull. Where are the indictments?
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Old 7th September 2007, 12:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
A couple weeks back I was lucky enough to be in NYC with my girlfriend and some pals on vacation. What an amazing city! Stunning sites, sounds, museums, restaurants…and kooks.
Same for me.
(Except I wasn't with your girlfriend, but with my husband.)

However, contrary to you, we deliberately decided not to visit Ground Zero on a saturday.
Contrary to you, I was afraid (to quote T.A.M.) not to be calm, patient and reasonable when confronted irl with the nonsense of these people.

You are great in these films, CHF, really incredible!

And it's true, NYC is an amazing city!
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Old 7th September 2007, 01:07 PM   #40
CHF
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip View Post
Where's YOUR face, CHF?
Behind the camera.

Quote:
Come see me, CHF. I am in NYC this weekend.
Have fun.

I'll be in Woodville, Ontario.

BTW, sorry I didn't ask them to comment on the flyover, Lyte. Completely slipped my mind.
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