What is Islam, fundamentally?

Elind · 12th February 2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

MENA, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) - A new taped message by Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden brought delight to some Muslims at the haj pilgrimage Wednesday, reassuring them that the "Islamic leader" was still alive.

Practically all pilgrims approached by Reuters supported bin Laden, accused by the United States of masterminding the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism?

Hazelip · 12th February 2003, 05:54 PM

Islam is a superstitious cult, just like any other religion.

12th February 2003, 06:04 PM

See the definition at religioustolerance.org

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islam.htm

12th February 2003, 06:28 PM

A religion, just like Christianity.

Some of its adherents are wackos, just as Christianity has wacko adherents.

fishbob · 12th February 2003, 06:36 PM

Just another group of wackos.

12th February 2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbob
Just another group of wackos.

Why are you so intolerant / uneducated?

Oh, this is the Internet, that is why.

You merely perpetuate the atheist vs. theist paradigm, and it continues to go on forever, and you've accomplished nothing.

12th February 2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elind

If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism?

Or...

these pilgrims might be concerned that they cannot speak freely. If the repercussions of speaking out are severe enough, many folks will do and say things that are inconsistent with their actual feelings and opinions.

Just a thought,
Sort

Filippo Lippi · 13th February 2003, 12:10 AM

I used to work with a devout Muslim and we used to chat quite a lot about his faith and my lack of it, we were quite good mates in fact.

We both agreed that I could be condemned to death if Islamic law were ever imposed in the UK. Now this seems a little over the top as all I did was be rather rude about Allah. Doesn't sound to progressive or forgiving to me.

Where Islam scores over other religions is the 'virgin brides' waiting for you in heaven. They are rationed based on how devout you are, but even the least devout gets six (6) pure, docile and compliant wives who perform your every wish. The most holy get 1.4 million (1,400,000 - someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the memory plays tricks, I know people are shy at coming forward on here

). Add this to the fact that martyrs are considered to be 'most holy' and... you can fill the rest in yourselves.

fishbob · 13th February 2003, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by fishbob
Just another group of wackos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then Whodini sez:

Why are you so intolerant / uneducated?
Oh, this is the Internet, that is why.
You merely perpetuate the atheist vs. theist paradigm, and it continues to go on forever, and you've accomplished nothing.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Fundamentalist Islamics appear to share a lot of characteristics with Fundamentalist Christians. I have lived among the Fundy Christians - some of them are dangerous. Recent world events show that some of the Fundy Islamics are also dangerous. My tolerance wears thin. They are clearly 100% wackos. How do you define the Non-Fundies? Only 50% wacko?

Fundy Theists - the ones that actually carry out the bad things apparently do so because someone else (Osama for example) told them to. Atheists on the other hand, are less likely to be led, more likely to think for themselves, more interested in reason, and less interested in wiping out infidels. I like those attributes. There is absolutely a big old vs. between these two belief systems.

P.S.
I have learned my lesson. Short answers are bad and I need to use more big words if I don't want to appear uneducated.

13th February 2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elind

If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism?

The word 'Islam' means 'surrender', as in total surrender to God. Mohammed was a warrior. He led over 20 military campaigns himself. It is undeniably a warrior religion, and anyone who tries to deny it is either ignorant or lying. It is not totally surprising that the adherents of this religion see America as 'the beast'. America glorifies everything Islam considers to be wrong. Worst of all America continues to support an Israeli state that they do not believe has any right to exist. To say that Islam is synonymous with terrorism is over-simplistic. To say it is a peaceful religion is just wrong. There are peacefull movements within Islam, notably the Sufis.

shemp · 13th February 2003, 04:26 AM

Brainless *****, like all other religions.

Samus · 13th February 2003, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UndercoverElephant
It is not totally surprising that the adherents of this religion see America as 'the beast'. America glorifies everything Islam considers to be wrong. Worst of all America continues to support an Israeli state that they do not believe has any right to exist. To say that Islam is synonymous with terrorism is over-simplistic. To say it is a peaceful religion is just wrong. There are peacefull movements within Islam, notably the Sufis.

This is probably one of the better explainations I've seen of why "they" hate "us" so much. Whether they're right or wrong, understanding where they are coming from is a good thing. A lot of Americans can't comprehend that there are cultures that disagree with how we conduct ourselves, since we seem to have this automatic assumption that all U.S. activity in the world is the right thing to do.

Like any religion, there are extremists and there are more moderate people. Same goes for atheists, there are some that are crazy zealots, some are rational thinkers.

CWL · 13th February 2003, 06:11 AM

This is an interesting site on Islam (Sunni):

www.understanding-islam.org

Elind · 13th February 2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SortingItAllOut

Or...

these pilgrims might be concerned that they cannot speak freely. If the repercussions of speaking out are severe enough, many folks will do and say things that are inconsistent with their actual feelings and opinions.

Just a thought,
Sort

Scanning the posts above, I find it interesting that this appears to be the only one that actually addresses the specifics of the original, even if we disregard the mundane anti religion one-liners.

Oh well...

12th February 2003, 04:17 PM	#1
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	What is Islam, fundamentally? Quote: MENA, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) - A new taped message by Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden brought delight to some Muslims at the haj pilgrimage Wednesday, reassuring them that the "Islamic leader" was still alive. Practically all pilgrims approached by Reuters supported bin Laden, accused by the United States of masterminding the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington. If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism?

12th February 2003, 05:54 PM	#2
Hazelip Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 497	Islam is a superstitious cult, just like any other religion.
Hazelip Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 497

12th February 2003, 06:04 PM	#3
Guest Posts: n/a	See the definition at religioustolerance.org http://www.religioustolerance.org/islam.htm
Guest Posts: n/a

12th February 2003, 06:28 PM	#4
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	A religion, just like Christianity. Some of its adherents are wackos, just as Christianity has wacko adherents.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

12th February 2003, 06:36 PM	#5
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Just another group of wackos.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

12th February 2003, 06:57 PM	#6
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by fishbob Just another group of wackos. Why are you so intolerant / uneducated? Oh, this is the Internet, that is why. You merely perpetuate the atheist vs. theist paradigm, and it continues to go on forever, and you've accomplished nothing.
Guest Posts: n/a

12th February 2003, 09:14 PM	#7
SortingItAllOut Guest Posts: n/a	Re: What is Islam, fundamentally? Quote: Originally posted by Elind If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism? Or... these pilgrims might be concerned that they cannot speak freely. If the repercussions of speaking out are severe enough, many folks will do and say things that are inconsistent with their actual feelings and opinions. Just a thought, Sort
SortingItAllOut Guest Posts: n/a

13th February 2003, 12:10 AM	#8
Filippo Lippi Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nottingham Posts: 1,577	I used to work with a devout Muslim and we used to chat quite a lot about his faith and my lack of it, we were quite good mates in fact. We both agreed that I could be condemned to death if Islamic law were ever imposed in the UK. Now this seems a little over the top as all I did was be rather rude about Allah. Doesn't sound to progressive or forgiving to me. Where Islam scores over other religions is the 'virgin brides' waiting for you in heaven. They are rationed based on how devout you are, but even the least devout gets six (6) pure, docile and compliant wives who perform your every wish. The most holy get 1.4 million (1,400,000 - someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the memory plays tricks, I know people are shy at coming forward on here ). Add this to the fact that martyrs are considered to be 'most holy' and... you can fill the rest in yourselves.
	__________________ "There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." - Richard Dawkins

13th February 2003, 12:27 AM	#9
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Originally posted by fishbob Just another group of wackos. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then Whodini sez: Why are you so intolerant / uneducated? Oh, this is the Internet, that is why. You merely perpetuate the atheist vs. theist paradigm, and it continues to go on forever, and you've accomplished nothing. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Fundamentalist Islamics appear to share a lot of characteristics with Fundamentalist Christians. I have lived among the Fundy Christians - some of them are dangerous. Recent world events show that some of the Fundy Islamics are also dangerous. My tolerance wears thin. They are clearly 100% wackos. How do you define the Non-Fundies? Only 50% wacko? Fundy Theists - the ones that actually carry out the bad things apparently do so because someone else (Osama for example) told them to. Atheists on the other hand, are less likely to be led, more likely to think for themselves, more interested in reason, and less interested in wiping out infidels. I like those attributes. There is absolutely a big old vs. between these two belief systems. P.S. I have learned my lesson. Short answers are bad and I need to use more big words if I don't want to appear uneducated.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

13th February 2003, 01:19 AM	#10
Guest Posts: n/a	Re: What is Islam, fundamentally? Quote: Originally posted by Elind If this is true and a valid survey; since pilgrims at the Haj do represent the true Islam, must we therefore conclude that Islam is synonymous with terrorism? The word 'Islam' means 'surrender', as in total surrender to God. Mohammed was a warrior. He led over 20 military campaigns himself. It is undeniably a warrior religion, and anyone who tries to deny it is either ignorant or lying. It is not totally surprising that the adherents of this religion see America as 'the beast'. America glorifies everything Islam considers to be wrong. Worst of all America continues to support an Israeli state that they do not believe has any right to exist. To say that Islam is synonymous with terrorism is over-simplistic. To say it is a peaceful religion is just wrong. There are peacefull movements within Islam, notably the Sufis.
Guest Posts: n/a

13th February 2003, 04:26 AM	#11
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,896	Brainless *****, like all other religions.
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

13th February 2003, 05:58 AM	#12
Samus space hunter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,003	Re: Re: What is Islam, fundamentally? Quote: Originally posted by UndercoverElephant It is not totally surprising that the adherents of this religion see America as 'the beast'. America glorifies everything Islam considers to be wrong. Worst of all America continues to support an Israeli state that they do not believe has any right to exist. To say that Islam is synonymous with terrorism is over-simplistic. To say it is a peaceful religion is just wrong. There are peacefull movements within Islam, notably the Sufis. This is probably one of the better explainations I've seen of why "they" hate "us" so much. Whether they're right or wrong, understanding where they are coming from is a good thing. A lot of Americans can't comprehend that there are cultures that disagree with how we conduct ourselves, since we seem to have this automatic assumption that all U.S. activity in the world is the right thing to do. Like any religion, there are extremists and there are more moderate people. Same goes for atheists, there are some that are crazy zealots, some are rational thinkers.
Samus space hunter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,003

13th February 2003, 06:11 AM	#13
CWL Funkateer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 1,370	This is an interesting site on Islam (Sunni): www.understanding-islam.org
	__________________ "All is not true which resembles truth" - Swedish Code for Judges (probably composed around 1540) "The obscurely spoken is the obscurely thought" - Swedish poet Esaias Tegnér (1782 - 1846) "Precisely because of human fallibility, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

13th February 2003, 05:56 PM	#14
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 6,622	Re: Re: What is Islam, fundamentally? Quote: Originally posted by SortingItAllOut Or... these pilgrims might be concerned that they cannot speak freely. If the repercussions of speaking out are severe enough, many folks will do and say things that are inconsistent with their actual feelings and opinions. Just a thought, Sort Scanning the posts above, I find it interesting that this appears to be the only one that actually addresses the specifics of the original, even if we disregard the mundane anti religion one-liners. Oh well...