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#1 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Experts confirm meteorite crash in Peru
I checked and couldn't find a thread on this.
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"But they were still puzzling over claims that it gave off fumes that sickened 200 people" WTF? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297369,00.html
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First it wasn't a meteorite, then it couldn't be a rocky meteorite, (because it has to be a metal meteorite), which meant it had to be cold, then it couldn't make water boil, but now it is a rocky meteorite, in fact, a fireball impact, which, like was what was reported, then it hit the ground, making a huge ass crater, but now, after everything the locals reported turns out to be true, the "experts", who have never actually witnessed a meteorite impact, still question the testimony of simple people. People that don't know anything, except what actually happened. ![]() Every guess/claim the experts have made so far has been 100% wrong, but we are expected to still believe them? Some theoretical Professor thousands of miles away says something, and it makes the news. That it was wrong, obviously wrong, doesn't seem to bother anybody. Has there ever been a case where 200 people instantly develop the same psychosomatic symptoms from fear? No? Then why would anyone believe such an absurd claim? Why would anybody be so dumb as to even say something like that? Are the symptoms reported the kind that fear is know to cause? No? Then why make some stupid claim about them? Why is that?
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Are you a Doctor? Did you examine anybody? Do any test? Do you have any evidence to make such a statement? No? Then shut the hell up. This bad science is too much to bear. Every expert has been wrong so far.
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Oh, you don't, you just THINK this is the case, because you never saw it happen before. Why don't you say that instead? Wouldn't it be more scientific to state the truth? "We don't know that a meteorite can make anybody sick". Isn't that the truth? "We don't know what happened." How about that? Then investigate to find out what happened. Isn't that how science is supposed to be done?
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No? How do you know what happens when a fireball hits? In that type of earth? You don't know? Then why are you saying dumb stuff? Making up statements that have no science to back them up? Why is that? Why do "experts" get a free pass when it comes to healthy skepticism? Or is this the Media dumbing down the story? An event like this, you might think it would be a story. Because it is the first one anybody has ever reported. Why is this considered just a bunch of dumb peasants misunderstanding what happened? Oops.
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Oh, it looks like it isn't dust causing the problems. Something in the air.
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I don't know who to believe at this point. If it was heat generated fumes from the earth, then why is it still causing problems? Was it only the people who went to look at the crater, or handled material that became ill? Or did people who were showered with material also become ill? Hmm...
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So there is some foul stench making people sick. Not a dust, but a gas. Still, after all this time. Interesting. Organic molecules are known to exist on objects from outer space. The locals are likely to be familiar with the smell of sulfur, or any other local stench. Has anybody sampled the air? Sent some to be analyzed? Basic science. Or maybe the police are just scared and that is why they got sick? ![]() The more I read about this, the more it seems like the start of another conspiracy theory. Why? Because of the dumb ass lack of science being done. By now you might think some real science types would have samples, and with people suffering health problems, it might be worth determining what is going on. Besides all that, there might just be some really cool outer space stuff in that crater, or spread out all over the place around it. But what about this shiny stuff the locals picked up? Nothing about that at all. Anybody missing a satellite? Most satellites don't have anything radioactive on them. But the do have shiny stuff, and a buttload of toxic chemicals in the thrusters.Hmm.. Something stinks about this story, and it ain't just the crater. How about "He also ruled out that the object was a satellite." How do you do that? Have they drained the crater and found the object? How does one even go about doing this? Determing that it isn't something? How do you deal with a satellite crashing anyway? (Not that this is the case, but what if it was?). Who do you call? What are the dangers? Would it be a fireball? How hot would it be? So back to Peru. Something came crashing out of the sky, burning. It made a crater, showered a nearby village with material from the crater. It made a big noise. People got sick, we are not sure why. It stinks, but there is no radioactivity. It isn't metal but rock. There may be shiny material. It is either a cool new science study, or nothing to get excited about. Experts have been wrong about almost everything involved so far. I want to hear from the regular scientist about this. What really happened? What is it? Not that I think you know, but you have to ask some kind of questions. Stuff falls from sky, makes people sick, how cool is that? |
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#2 |
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Seasonally Disaffected
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chilly Undieville
Posts: 5,667
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Check out the Bad Astronomy website (Link at the end of today's commentary).
Phil has an interesting hypothesis - an errant Scud missile. |
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__________________
When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots. |
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#3 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 7,837
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Nice post, Robinson,
How typical that no one believed the Peruvian villagers, it's so predictable. And the usual attempts by experts to preserve their prestige by pretending they have a clue what happened. |
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#4 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,417
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__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#5 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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How does he know it is a Chondrite? Interesting. This would be a huge story if it happened in the US. Still pretty damn interesting. I wonder if the animals that got sick are suffering from a psychosomatic illness as well? Chondrite meteorites are usually rich in Iridium, Iridium is a very hard shiny metal. I'm going out on a limb now, pure speculation, but it could explain both the shiny substance, and the illness. According to Wiki -
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If it turns out to be an Iridium rich meteorite, and either contained Iridium compounds, or formed some on impact, it gets really cool. Iridium is also rare, and very valuable. Back to the News -
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#6 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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I just did another search, still no other threads found. Using "meteorite" and "peru" shows only this thread, just "meteorite" shows this thread, but no others about meteorite AND Peru. What are you using to search for threads?
More importantly, tell us how to find the other threads. Or even better, link to them. I still can't find them. |
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#7 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Never mind, I found them. The term meteorite is missing from the tag in one, (here, in Math and Science), and the other doesn't mention either meteorite or Peru in the topic title, (In social issues).
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#8 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,417
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__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
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#9 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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No, I searched for Peru, then one of them shows up, but the other one, The Martians are coming! isn't obvious that it is about a meteorite. I read the other threads, both of which seem to focus on the illness, and how it is either Martians, or psychosomatic illness or something.
A lot of humorous comments about the obvious, but it makes me wonder of H.G. Wells didn't hear or read about a meteor impact, and get the idea for War pf the Worlds. I mean, how weird can you get? A giant flaming object falls from the sky, making a huge crater. People who approach the crater get sick. Something is down in the crater, either hot or causing groundwater to boil. Scary movie, especially if you never saw the movie. As far as I can determine, which isn't saying that much, this is the first time this has happened in quite a while. How big would it have to be to make such a crater? I would quote an expert (31 inches), but that same expert said it couldn't be hot, so I'm not sure if that is accurate. But wait, there's more:
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I checked, arsenic dust/fumes don't produce the symptoms reported. Nor the smell. A mystery. How cool is that? There doesn't seem to be any doubt it is a meteor, and a rare one at that. |
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#10 |
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Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge
Posts: 14,398
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Could you please point out where in the quoted material it is indicated that no one belived the villagers?
The following statements would seem to indicate that the reports were not dismissed out of hand.
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Originally Posted by plumjam
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__________________
It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it. |
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#11 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Reason has returned to the world
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#12 |
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Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge
Posts: 14,398
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It sounds as though it could be similar to CO2 poisoning. But I don't know anything about the geology of the area. It is possible for large quantities of gas to be trapped in the Earth and suddenly released. In 1986 Lake Nyos in Cameroon released about 1 cubic Km of CO2 killing at least 1700 people. I'm not suggesting that this is directly related, the gas in Lake Nyos was trapped at the bottom of the lake and pressurized by the overlying layers so that the disturbance caused by a landslide suddenly released it. But it is possible that elements within the earth at the crater site could have been released by the energy of the impact. We'll have to keep an eye on this as more evidence is gathered, it is indeed interesting.
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__________________
It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it. |
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#13 |
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Tergiversator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: That's how you get ants
Posts: 17,497
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__________________
What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser |
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#14 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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After a little researching on the composition of Chondrite meteorites, it seems that based on the known composition of other Chondrite meteorites, there could be chemical reactions with water that could form highly toxic and irritating chemicals, including boiling, not from heat, but from chemical reactions with water, especially dirty water that already has organic molecules in it.
An extensive paper on these kinds of meteorites http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pls/porta...cs/1/48477.PDF The most obvious compounds are Carboxylic acid, Hydrogen chloride and Sulfuric acid. (pure speculation). The small amount of heat from the passage through the atmosphere may not be the cause of the boiling. (more speculation) Because no other meteorite of this kind has ever actually been observed right after hitting the earth, and then sitting in dirty water, this is quite likely one of the most important events on the science of meteorites. It seems that almost every other meteorite studied had already interacted with the earths moisture, leading to all kinds of speculations about contamination, and what came from space, and what was from the earth. Based on past examination of meteorites, we know they are chock full of all kinds of organic compounds, amino acids, purines and pyrimidines, all kinds of cool stuff. A lot of scientist think organic molecules from meteorites and comets led to life on earth. All kinds of papers available here, just do a search from this article http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000neas.work...17G The amount and kind of stuff in these meteorites varies a good bit, so there is no way to know what this one was made of, yet. The interaction with water has no doubt altered the composition as well. Hopefully there will be a big chunk somewhere so it can be examined in detail, with out contamination. The more I study known meteorites of this kind, the more it looks like the experts are dead wrong about what could happen. Of course this is understandable, because they assumed it had to be a metal meteorite, because Chondrites that size couldn't make it to earth and make a crater like the one reported. So they don't have a clue as to what can happen from a meteorite hitting muddy earth, or groundwater. Like I suspected, some of these experts were talking out their ass. Nobody knows if a meteorite impact can make you sick. Well, up until now that is. I know it seems harsh, but why not test the earth, air, water and people affected, instead of saying it couldn't happen? Science isn't served by assumption, guesses and conjecture. You have to actually observe and test and study stuff. |
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#15 |
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Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge
Posts: 14,398
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The quotes you provided suggest that they are testing or intend to test the earth, air and water as any good scientists would. The statements of initial skepticism are perfectly normal but I cannot find a single statement in the quotes you provided indicating that any scientist has flat out dismissed anything as impossible. And science is often served by assumptions, guesses and conjecture as long as they are then subjected to rigorous examination and testing to determine their validity.
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__________________
It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it. |
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#16 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Caerphilly
Posts: 1,411
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Don't you know what the word "Expert" means?
"Ex" is a has-been "Spurt" is a drip under pressure. Put 'em together people!
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__________________
When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort? |
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#17 |
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Under the Amazing One's Wing
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,281
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What about the villager's skin lesions I read about in several news articles?
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Peru Meteorite May Have Sickened 150 People, Ministry Says |
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__________________
"thhere's waaaay too much colonialism and white supremacy in our culture to even THINK about addressing the religion of brown people, the end." A+ Global Moderator ceepolk, Dec. 9, 2012 |
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#18 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Skin lesions. A common psychosomatic problem, caused by fear.
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#19 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5OYiRcLepg
Fireball from Sept 13 2007 Mexico. Or over New Mexico http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEOX6wGo_S0 Same one, from spaceweather, different video http://www.spaceweather.com/archive....h=09&year=2007 Then, another one on Sep 15, 2007 http://www.spaceweather.com/archive....2007&view=view Interesting. |
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#20 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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And with that, lets look at spaceweather's claim from Sep 17, 2007
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Where do people get this stuff from? Does anybody else find that claim impossible? Either tactical nukes are pretty lame, (there were villagers 800 feet away, nobody was injured), or somebody is making up facts. It makes me question the other claim. I'm pretty sure you can blast a hole that big without a nuke. I did read that the seismic shock showed up on records. I haven't seen the records, but it was stated.
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I found a few other mentions of fireballs last week, but no videos or photos. But what is really cool, is the video of a huge daytime fireball in Peru. |
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#21 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Peruvian Skeptic refuses to guess about science
Interview:
Jose Machare, Science Doctorate and Geological Engineer, Ingemmet (Geology, Mining and Metallurgical Institute), Lima, Peru: “We have recovered some pieces of the meteorite. HOW MUCH METEORITE DID YOU RECOVER? Just some small pieces of 5 centimeters (2 inches). The fragments were collected first by the local police (from residents who gathered them) and the police gave us some pieces. WHERE IS THE REST OF THE METEORITE? We are not sure. We are trying in the next days to identify if parts of the remaining meteorite are still in the Earth below the small lake that is in the crater. The small crater is about 7.5 meters in diameter with a lake in the center. We cannot see what is inside. WHERE DID THE WATER COME FROM? It is ground water that came out right after the impact. The water table is about one meter below the surface, very high water table. So, ground water was impacted and now it appears within the crater. WHAT MADE THE PEOPLE AND ANIMALS SICK? We don’t know exactly because we are still analyzing waters. We have water samples from a couple days ago to see if there is any harmful element. But we don’t know exactly was the cause of the illness of people. AT SPACEWEATHER.COM, IT HAS BEEN REPORTED THAT THE GROUND IS FULL OF ARSENIC AND THAT IT IS ARSENIC THAT MADE THE PEOPLE AND ANIMALS SICK. I AM READING FROM SPACEWEATHER.COM: ‘THE CRASH SITE COINCIDES WITH A NATURAL UNDERGROUND DEPOSIT OF ARSENIC.’ No. This is not proven. We have not released this news because we have not performed the water and soil analysis up to now. So that is not correct information. I understand from the first day, there has been anecdotal information about the sickness of people and supposing about arsenic or other components. But nobody has released clear chemical analyses for either the water or remaining dust or fragments of the meteorite. We will have this information in two or three days. DO YOU THINK ARSENIC IS IN THE SOIL THERE? Normal composition includes some arsenic, but it’s not a main component of the soils. WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT SPACEWEATHER.COM WOULD RECEIVE THIS INFORMATION AND POST IT AS A HEADLINE TODAY? Really, I don’t know. I have not released information at least to them about these possible contents of arsenic and that arsenic was the cause of the sickness. It was not our information. YOU WON’T HAVE FINAL RESULTS FOR TWO OR THREE DAYS? Yes, we will have the information in two or three days (by September 27 or 28). AS A MINING ENGINEER, WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS IN THE SOIL THAT MADE THE PEOPLE AND ANIMALS SICK? (laughs) Yes, this is a question I prefer not to answer because really I don’t know. I would prefer to have the results first to explain that, yes? http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?I...tegory=Science |
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#22 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,136
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Damn skeptical scientist. Why not just guess and make stuff up? Works for the "experts" who know everything.
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