Acronyms - Split from: Swear words - the skeptic's final taboo?

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

I wonder why swear words aren't used in most, if not all, reputable publications, such as certain newspapers, magazines, periodicals, etc (quotes excepted). I guess it's because the writers are intelligent and sufficiently literate not to have to resort to using them, even when expressing emotion. I don't see how reputable forums shouldn't be bound by the same civilised principle.

Incidentally, "WTF" is not an acronym, it's an abbreviation, as is "JREF". An acronym is a word formed from initial letters, such as "OPEC". Spot the difference?

Oops. If you're going to correct people, at least make sure you're completely right. An acronym which does not form a pronounceable word (such as JREF) is an initialism. This is a type of abbreviation, but so is an acronym.

Acronym = a type of abbreviation which forms a pronounceable word (e.g. NATO)
Initialism = a type of abbreviation which does not form a pronounceable word (e.g. JREF, WTF)

[Cuddles]

Am I the only one that pronounces JREF as jayref? WTF certainly isn't an acronym, but I would say JREF is.

[Darat]

No.

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Am I the only one that pronounces JREF as jayref? WTF certainly isn't an acronym, but I would say JREF is.

Lots of people do. And lots don't, I've heard it pronounced J-R-E-F several times. Interesting question, though, as the criteria for an acronym is 'pronounceable word' and 'jayref' certainly is that. It doesn't have to be an existing word, I think. Hence, NATO is an acronym rather than just words like WHO (World Health Organisation).

So I guess the answer is, it's an acronym if you pronounce it 'jayref' and an initialism if you don't. Although if the pronunciation is not apparent just from the initials, I wonder if it qualifies.

I'm voting for 'yes'. New tagline for 'em:

JREF - the flexible abbreviation.

[Southwind17]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Oops. If you're going to correct people, at least make sure you're completely right. An acronym which does not form a pronounceable word (such as JREF) is an initialism. This is a type of abbreviation, but so is an acronym.

Acronym = a type of abbreviation which forms a pronounceable word (e.g. NATO)
Initialism = a type of abbreviation which does not form a pronounceable word (e.g. JREF, WTF)

Oops - the words 'pot', 'kettle' and 'black' spring to mind, but certainly not the word 'initialism'. Indeed, it doesn't even appear in my dictionary (The Chambers Dictionary - 1998 edition). Under what authority do you make this claim tkingdoll? ... and Cuddles, you might like to think that JREF is an acronym, just because you've verbally moulded into two syllables that roll nicely off the tongue, but what other English words begin with the letters 'JR'?

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

but what other English words begin with the letters 'JR'?

What does that have to do with anything?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Lots of people do. And lots don't, I've heard it pronounced J-R-E-F several times. Interesting question, though, as the criteria for an acronym is 'pronounceable word' and 'jayref' certainly is that. It doesn't have to be an existing word, I think. Hence, NATO is an acronym rather than just words like WHO (World Health Organisation).

Interesting one, I've never heard anyone pronounce that as 'WHO', only ever 'double-u aitch oh'. Does it still count as an acronym if it's never pronounced as the word?

I've never heard of initialism, either. I think I'd just refer to an abbreviation.

[Southwind17]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

What does that have to do with anything?

Well, Cuddles, if there are no existing words in the English language beginning with "JR", and I don't think there are, then if you're correct that "JREF" is indeed a word you've just earned the illustrious honour of not only creating a new word, but being the very first person in the history of the English language to combine those two letters at the start of a word. Congratulations Cuddles.

But hold on a second. How long has the JREF been around now? How many dictionaries, Cuddles, the purpose of which, unless I'm mistaken, is to catalogue all the words of a language, can you name that include the word "JREF". My Chambers dictionary certainly includes the 'word' OPEC, which, admittedly, is classified therein as an abbreviation, but certainly not "JREF".

Cuddles, do you ever concede that you are sometimes fallible, like the rest of us?!?

[TX50]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

No, it isn't.

"crap", in English, apparently dates from (at least) the 15th century. It
originally meant any detritus or discarded matter. Its scatological meaning
apparently came much later.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Well, Cuddles, if there are no existing words in the English language beginning with "JR", and I don't think there are, then if you're correct that "JREF" is indeed a word you've just earned the illustrious honour of not only creating a new word, but being the very first person in the history of the English language to combine those two letters at the start of a word. Congratulations Cuddles.

But hold on a second. How long has the JREF been around now? How many dictionaries, Cuddles, the purpose of which, unless I'm mistaken, is to catalogue all the words of a language, can you name that include the word "JREF". My Chambers dictionary certainly includes the 'word' OPEC, which, admittedly, is classified therein as an abbreviation, but certainly not "JREF".

An acronym must be pronounced as if it was a word; there is no requirement that it be a word in any dictionary. Is NORML an acronym?

[Southwind17]

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

An acronym must be pronounced as if it was a word; there is no requirement that it be a word in any dictionary. Is NORML an acronym?

I'm not sure - what do you say? It might depend on how close the pronunciation of the so-called acronym is to the word that it seeks to emulate. Some people, for example, probably the more literate amongst us, might argue that "NORML" is not an acronym, because it omits the 'a' or 'e' sound after the 'M', and hence has different, albeit close, pronunciation.

Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem with "NORML" because it's at least a play on the word "NORMAL". "JREF" (pronounced "Jayref"), in contrast, whilst easily pronounceable, does not seek to emulate or play on an accepted word. "Jayref", to my mind, is no different from, say, "keygog", "pigslap", "tinvolgawamplechop", etc. none of which, I doubt you, or even Cuddles, will agree, is a word, but simply a seemingly random collection of letters assembled in a pronounceable order. The fact that such letters may be derived from the initial letters of other words or names, as in "JREF", is irrelevant.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Marquis de Carabas

Is NORML an acronym?

No, it's a way of life.

[Tokenconservative]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Am I the only one that pronounces JREF as jayref? WTF certainly isn't an acronym, but I would say JREF is.

Yeah, WTF? I say it that way!

[Tokenconservative]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Interesting one, I've never heard anyone pronounce that as 'WHO', only ever 'double-u aitch oh'. Does it still count as an acronym if it's never pronounced as the word?

I've never heard of initialism, either. I think I'd just refer to an abbreviation.

Whooooo are youuuuu?

[Tokenconservative]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

No, it's a way of life.

Not. Go visit the paranormal forum...

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

I'm not sure - what do you say? It might depend on how close the pronunciation of the so-called acronym is to the word that it seeks to emulate. Some people, for example, probably the more literate amongst us, might argue that "NORML" is not an acronym, because it omits the 'a' or 'e' sound after the 'M', and hence has different, albeit close, pronunciation.

Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem with "NORML" because it's at least a play on the word "NORMAL". "JREF" (pronounced "Jayref"), in contrast, whilst easily pronounceable, does not seek to emulate or play on an accepted word. "Jayref", to my mind, is no different from, say, "keygog", "pigslap", "tinvolgawamplechop", etc. none of which, I doubt you, or even Cuddles, will agree, is a word, but simply a seemingly random collection of letters assembled in a pronounceable order. The fact that such letters may be derived from the initial letters of other words or names, as in "JREF", is irrelevant.

Or...hut sut ralston on the rilla ra and a bralla bralla suet?

[Southwind17]

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

Or...hut sut ralston on the rilla ra and a bralla bralla suet?

That's more than one 'word', so fails the acronym test immediately.

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Oops - the words 'pot', 'kettle' and 'black' spring to mind, but certainly not the word 'initialism'. Indeed, it doesn't even appear in my dictionary (The Chambers Dictionary - 1998 edition). Under what authority do you make this claim tkingdoll? ... and Cuddles, you might like to think that JREF is an acronym, just because you've verbally moulded into two syllables that roll nicely off the tongue, but what other English words begin with the letters 'JR'?

I make the claim because I am right. Go and do some proper research.

The authority I possess is that it's my job to know the meanings and usage of words. Some of the biggest companies in the world pay me to know what I'm talking about. Even if it wasn't my job, I am still right.

Couple of references for you for starters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism

http://www.webster.com/dictionary/initialism

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/initialism

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O29-INITIALISM.html

I've never seen anyone have such a weird defensive reaction to being corrected. I thought my post was friendly enough and that if you had taken the time to correct someone else then you might be the sort of person who likes to learn.

Clearly not.

[tube]

Good work tkingdoll. I thought I was the only person on the planet for whom this was an interesting issue. Your links totally have the issue covered, but I feel compeled to add that I became aware of this through reading Michael Quinion. His treatment is found here:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/asye.htm

Now that Van Halen is back together, I wonder if they are going to release an album entitled "Ship High in Transit"...

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

Not. Go visit the paranormal forum...

Tokie

WTF?

Paranormal? In what possible way?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Personally, I wouldn't have a major problem with "NORML" because it's at least a play on the word "NORMAL".
"JREF" (pronounced "Jayref"), in contrast, whilst easily pronounceable, does not seek to emulate or play on an accepted word.

I think you're adding an unnecessary requirement. Neither 'NATO' nor 'OPEC' were plays on original words.

Quote:

"Jayref", to my mind, is no different from, say, "keygog", "pigslap", "tinvolgawamplechop", etc. none of which, I doubt you, or even Cuddles, will agree, is a word, but simply a seemingly random collection of letters assembled in a pronounceable order. The fact that such letters may be derived from the initial letters of other words or names, as in "JREF", is irrelevant.

That surely is the point, that the word is derived from the initials, and is used as a word to refer to the object in question. I'm still in two minds about "JREF", though I'm tending to think that 'Jay-ref' probably counts as a word. I know I've always said it that way, never spelt it out.

Acronyms do sometimes have unexpected pronunciation. There's one used in the industry I'm in, which is spelt "WBEM" but pronounced "Webbum". Written down, you'd probably say it wasn't a word, but it's not read out as letters.

To clarify my earlier comment, I wasn't disagreeing with Teek's comment, just stating that I'd never heard the term initialism, and that I'd use the more general term abbreviation.

This is exciting, the first time I've been split!

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

I make the claim because I am right. Go and do some proper research.

Of course you are.



Good subject all round, acronyms & initialisms.

Pushing the envelope on them was that cosmetic crowd with the FCUK label. It failed quite miserably over here, fortunately. Walking past ads for it with a four year screaming, "daddy, it says ####" is quite funny, but some of the old ladies at the shops are in danger of stroke. I never quite know whether they're more disgusted at her saying the word or me laughing at it. Probably the latter.

I go with JREF being an either/or. I pronounce it Jayref and always have. As to what else starts with "jr", how many words start with "xr"? QANTAS get away with it, acronyms don't need to follow rules, they need to be prounceable.

[Wolfman]

Wow, has Southwind ever gotten off to a great start -- demonstrating ignorance (claiming that "initialism" isn't real, or isn't a legitimate argument, when the most cursory internet search would provide tons of references), and an aggressive self-defensiveness entirely out of proportion to the issue being discussed.

For the record, Southwind, there is no requirement that an acronym be based on pre-existing words, or any other such nonsense. There is a very simple criterium. Can it be pronounced as a word? Not "Can it be pronounced as a word that already exists in English?" Not "Does it use letter combinations that are commonly found elsewhere in English?"

Let me make this simple. We have a category called "abbreviations". Under that category, we have two sub-categories (as demonstrated more than adequately by Teek): initialisms, and acronyms.

An initialism is an abbreviation where you read the individual letters. In this case, if someone read JREF as "Jay, Are, Ee, Eff", then it would be an initialism.

An acronym is an abbreviation where it is read as a word. In this case, if someone read JREF as "Jay-ref", then it would be an acronym.

Those are the categories. The question of if English has other words that begin with "JR" is irrelevant, as is the question of whether there are other English words similar to "jay-ref". If I read it as "jay-ref", then it is not an initialism.

Now, if you want to continue making you're argument -- without continuing to appear like the complete idjit that you've appeared thus far -- then I offer you the following challenge.

Southwind's Challenge

Given that myself, and many others here, do pronounce JREF as "jay-ref", into which category -- initialism or acronym -- would that abbreviation fall? It very clearly is not an initialism. So, unless you are able to offer up some magical third category of abbreviation (which seems doubtful considering you weren't even aware that initialism was a category), it is by default an acronym.

You seem to suffer from the delusion common among those who think they know more than they do. They come up with their own personal definitions, and then think that everyone else must abide by those definitions. According to your personal definition, "jay-ref" is not an acronym...but that does not make it true. That just makes it your own (woefully inadequate) opinion.

[Southwind17]

OK - I'll humbly concede that 'initialism' is indeed a word, and that an acronym does not have to be a recognized or accepted word. It's just that I'd never heard of 'initialism', so I'll consider myself more educated now. That's that part put to bed. Moving on ...

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

An acronym which does not form a pronounceable word (such as JREF) is an initialism.

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Acronym = a type of abbreviation which forms a pronounceable word (e.g. NATO)

It seems we have a contradiction here. An acronym either forms a pronounceable word or it doesn't. Which is it to be? Your clarification will, hopefully, end the debate regarding the letters "JREF".

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

I make the claim because I am right.

You might be right regarding the word 'initialism', but are you right re. the above?

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

The authority I possess is that it's my job to know the meanings and usage of words. Some of the biggest companies in the world pay me to know what I'm talking about. Even if it wasn't my job, I am still right.

I do find it amusing when people think that the depth of their authority, knowledge and/or experience can necessarily be measured by the size of their pay cheque. Recognized qualifications in the field to which they profess to know all would be more convincing. OOI what is your job?

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

I've never seen anyone have such a weird defensive reaction to being corrected. I thought my post was friendly enough and that if you had taken the time to correct someone else then you might be the sort of person who likes to learn.

Perhaps we can open a debate over the meaning of the word 'friendly' then. To respond with:

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Oops. If you're going to correct people, at least make sure you're completely right.

does, to my mind, come across as a little condescending. The words 'friendly' and 'condescending' sit together a little uneasily with me.

Originally Posted by zooterkin

I think you're adding an unnecessary requirement. Neither 'NATO' nor 'OPEC' were plays on original words.

I didn't mean that an acronym has to be a play on an original word, just that, as such, it added more credence to "NORML" qualifying as an acronym.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Given that myself, and many others here, do pronounce JREF as "jay-ref", into which category -- initialism or acronym -- would that abbreviation fall? It very clearly is not an initialism. So, unless you are able to offer up some magical third category of abbreviation (which seems doubtful considering you weren't even aware that initialism was a category), it is by default an acronym.

Contrary to you assuredness I would now say that it is, indeed, an initialism. I do not believe that "JREF", pronounced 'Jayref' can be classed as a word. Just about any combination of four letters can be manipulated by the tongue to form a pronunciation. That would make all such combinations of letters acronyms. Are "IBM", pronounceable as 'Ibem' or "UCLA", pronounceable as 'youcla' acronyms?

Let's not forget please that the purpose of my initial post was simply to point out that "WTF" is not an acronym. On that we are, I believe, agreed.

[tkingdoll]

Wolfman, he's been correcting people in other threads too, I think it's his mission or something.

Southwind - The first sentence you quote might be read with the word 'acronym' replaced with 'abbreviation' if you prefer, but semantically it's correct as initialisms are a derivative of acronyms.

Regarding which 'JREF' is, we've covered that. It's either. Or, if you like, Wikipedia has this to say:

Quote:

There is no agreement on what to call abbreviations whose pronunciation involves the combination of letter names and words, such as JPEG ([dʒeɪ.pɛg]) and MS-DOS ([ɛm.ɛs.dɔs]). These abbreviations are sometimes described as acronym–initialism hybrids, although most would group them under the broad meaning of acronym.[citation needed]

That's about all I can be bothered to say about this, other than to laugh at you demanding to know on what authority I claim to know about words, then insisting that being a paid professional is not authority enough. The rest is none of your business unless you are a large company with money to spend on copywriting, in which case I'd be happy to set up a meeting at your expense.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

This would be the only conversation I've ever had in which someone talked about initialisms. They are all just acronyms. Either that, or a computer noobie speaks in initialisms, then tends more and more toward acronyms while learning the lingo.

Is alphabet an acronym? How about LaTeX?

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Southwind

Contrary to you assuredness I would now say that it is, indeed, an initialism. I do not believe that "JREF", pronounced 'Jayref' can be classed as a word. Just about any combination of four letters can be manipulated by the tongue to form a pronunciation.

Then you must agree that posh,* laser, and radar are also not acronyms. And yet, astonishingly, they have become actual words.

Quote:

It seems we have a contradiction here. An acronym either forms a pronounceable word or it doesn't. Which is it to be?

Both.

~~ Paul

* Assuming you believe the story.

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

This would be the only conversation I've ever had in which someone talked about initialisms. They are all just acronyms. Either that, or a computer noobie speaks in initialisms, then tends more and more toward acronyms while learning the lingo.

Is alphabet an acronym? How about LaTeX?

~~ Paul

Read the references I posted, please.

Or are we in some weird twilight zone where if people haven't heard of something, it's therefore not true?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Teek

Or are we in some weird twilight zone where if people haven't heard of something, it's therefore not true?

There is no truth in the dictionary, only usage. In Merriam, the definitions of acronym and initialism are indistinguishable, and I suggest that the same is true in ordinary usage. Only those of us who like to discuss this sort of thing make any distinction.

And the distinction is almost impossible to make. Is jpg an acronym or an initialism?

~~ Paul

[Gnu Ordure]

Teek/WolfMan/The A,

I'm going to take Southwind's side here, partly because he's a newbie and I think you're being a bit harsh on him, and partly because I think he has a point.

I think using the term 'initialism' to 'prove' you are right is disingenuous.

I appreciate the word exists; but it's archaic. Hardly anyone uses it, or knows what it means.

Feel free to call me ignorant. But I'm more than 50 years old, I've got A levels in English, I was an English teacher for 5 years, I've read approximately 461,692 books.... but I never heard the word 'initialism' before today.

And neither had Southwind, nor Zooterkin, nor Paul.

(I don't know how many A-levels they've got, but I bet it's lots).



To start again, with Teek's OP :

Quote:

Acronym = a type of abbreviation which forms a pronounceable word (e.g. NATO)
Initialism = a type of abbreviation which does not form a pronounceable word (e.g. JREF, WTF)

The first on-line dictionary I went to disgrees with this; dictionary.com defines 'initialism' thus :

Quote:

1. a name or term formed from the initial letters of a group of words and pronounced as a separate word, as NATO for North Atlantic Treaty Organization; an acronym.
2. a set of initials representing a name, organization, or the like, with each letter pronounced separately, as FBI for Federal Bureau of Investigation.

OK ? According to that, 'Initialism' is both - words and initials.

However, to support Teek's case, the second dictionary I found says (my bolding) :

Quote:

n. An abbreviation consisting of the first letter or letters of words in a phrase (for example, IRS for Internal Revenue Service), syllables or components of a word (TNT for trinitrotoluene), or a combination of words and syllables (ESP for extrasensory perception) and pronounced by spelling out the letters one by one rather than as a solid word.

Quite clearly, 'initialsms' here are only non-pronounceable words.



Why the discrepancy ?

I believe the answer lies in the process (language being dynamic and all).

'Initialism' came first, c 1900.

For forty years,, 'initialism' covered both pronounceable and unpronounceable abbreviations (NATO and FBI).

Circa 1940, the word 'acronym' was coined to specify the pronounceable abbreviations (NATO).

Therefore, it would seem reasonable to describe 'acronyms' as a sub-set of 'initialisms', at that point in time.

Common-sense might have suggested that, also at that point in time, another word should be invented as the counter-part of 'acronym' - ie a specific word for unpronounceable abbreviations - subsumed under the heading 'initialism' - But it didn't happen.

What happened was that 'initialism' itself, originally the general term, was re-defined as the more specific "unpronounceable abbreviation'. Hence the second definition I quoted above.

Hence Teek's OP.

But it didn't stop there, that's the point.

'Acronym' was a greedy bastard. Once he had a foot-hold, he went the whole hog, and took over the definition of 'unpronounceable abbreviation' as well.

Acronym usurped Initialism.

Initialism slunk off, nobody talked about him, and he was only kept going by a few specialists.

Meanwhile, Acronym's on-line definition now proudly boasts :

Quote:

a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words

No mention of pronunciation.


Acronym won.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

There is no truth in the dictionary, only usage. In Merriam, the definitions of acronym and initialism are indistinguishable, and I suggest that the same is true in ordinary usage.

Merriam? Who the hell is she?

We were discussing English, not that strange, hybrid pidgin in use in USA. English has no letter "zee", for instance, so even the alphabets are different across the Atlantic. Oxford makes the distinction quite clearly, even giving the classic BBC as an example of an intialism. Try to pronounce that sucker as a word!

Oxford Dictionary + Grammar Tyrant = Truth.

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Only those of us who like to discuss this sort of thing make any distinction.

And those of us who are right.

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

And the distinction is almost impossible to make. Is jpg an acronym or an initialism?

~~ Paul

Either, either.

When it's "jaypeg", it's an acronym, when it's "jay pee gee", it's an intialism.

[Gnu Ordure]

Quote:

Oxford makes the distinction quite clearly, even giving the classic BBC as an example of an intialism. Try to pronounce that sucker as a word!

er .. the Beeb ?

[tkingdoll]

Gnu, my 'OP' is no such thing, this thread is a mod split. Southwind corrected someone, but in doing so was not entirely accurate himself. When people correct others' mistakes, it's usually fair to say that they are the sort of person open to learning new things, so I pointed out his error in response to him doing the same to someone else. I thought he might be interested as he seems to like words.

The mods split the thread as it was drifting. But please don't think I started an entire thread about this. I just saw someone correcting someone else and set them right in return.

I don't care whether 'initialism' is in common usage or rarer than a monk's condom, it's still the correct word. However, I would never have brought it up if Southwind hadn't incorrectly told someone that 'WTF is not an acronym but an abbreviation' or whatever it was.

An acronym is a type of abbreviation. So is an initialism. The point of my correction was to make that distinction. Anything that is an acronym is also an abbreviation. It can't be one or the other.

Am I clear? Can we end this completely pointless split thread now?

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

There is no truth in the dictionary, only usage. In Merriam, the definitions of acronym and initialism are indistinguishable, and I suggest that the same is true in ordinary usage. Only those of us who like to discuss this sort of thing make any distinction.

And the distinction is almost impossible to make. Is jpg an acronym or an initialism?

~~ Paul

FFS Paul, read my posts. I already stated that there is no word to describe a mix of both. I can't believe anyone would demonstrate an aversion to learning a new word. I thought you of all people would be interested to learn the distinction.

I could probably list 50 words you've never heard of. You could probably do the same in return. Those words and their definitions exist regardless of the fact that we were not previously familiar with them as individuals.

This is my last post on this topic because frankly it's baffling me. I will assume you are familiar with that word and therefore accept it exists.

[Minadin]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Am I the only one that pronounces JREF as jayref? WTF certainly isn't an acronym, but I would say JREF is.

I pronounce JREF the same way you do, but for other words / abbreviations it's different; I think it may be a personal preference. For instance, I have heard several people pronounce NIST as 'nist', but I have always spelled it out in pronouncing it N.I.S.T.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Atheist

Oxford makes the distinction quite clearly, even giving the classic BBC as an example of an intialism. Try to pronounce that sucker as a word!

No trying required. It's pronounced bee-back.

Originally Posted by Teek

FFS Paul, read my posts. I already stated that there is no word to describe a mix of both. I can't believe anyone would demonstrate an aversion to learning a new word. I thought you of all people would be interested to learn the distinction.

Oh, I am fascinated to learn the distinction. I just don't think it matters much, since I've never run across it in my 40 years in the acronym-infested computer biz.

Quote:

This is my last post on this topic because frankly it's baffling me. I will assume you are familiar with that word and therefore accept it exists.

Perhaps by coming into this conversation late, I failed to take it seriously.

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Let us ponder, if you will:

XML

SQL

INVU

FCUK


~~ Paul

[Gnu Ordure]

Quote:

This is my last post on this topic because frankly it's baffling me.

I'm baffled too, Teek.

I'd be willing to continue the conversation, to maybe resolve the bafflement ...

(That's why I come to this Forum, mainly... to resolve my bafflements ...)

Quote:

I don't care whether 'initialism' is in common usage or rarer than a monk's condom, it's still the correct word.

Teek, are you sure about this ?

It doesn't matter what the 'common usage' is ?

There's still a 'correct word', over and above the 'common usage' ?




So who's in charge of this 'correct word' ?


Do you see what I mean ?

[gtc]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Incidentally, "WTF" is not an acronym, it's an abbreviation, as is "JREF". An acronym is a word formed from initial letters, such as "OPEC". Spot the difference?

I would pronounce JREF as 'jay-ref' is that an acronym or an abbreviation?

[jsfisher]

Originally Posted by Southwind17

Incidentally, "WTF" is not an acronym, it's an abbreviation, as is "JREF". An acronym is a word formed from initial letters, such as "OPEC". Spot the difference?

It can be either word or abbreviation according to Merriam-Webster:

Quote:

a word (as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters