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Miss Anthrope · 23rd September 2007, 01:50 PM

Apparently "Dink" is a racial slur or possibly sexually obscene, so the Udink family is out of luck with their vanity plates.

Quote:

House, who serves on the panel, said the reasons were the sexual references that can be associated with the name, which can be treated as a verb.
"DINK has several derogatory meanings," wrote panel member Yvonne Bell. She said it also can be a racial slur, especially toward Vietnamese.
House said the "U" in the front could be construed as "You."
It seems unreal to Mike Udink, whose name is Dutch. He says it is a common name in The Netherlands.
"Since when can a panel dictate whether your name's offensive or not?" asked Udink, a lineman for Pacific Power.
The family wonders why the plates were fine for years, then recalled.

Ryokan · 23rd September 2007, 04:43 PM

What a dink.

Bell · 23rd September 2007, 04:55 PM

[hit and run]
Yep, Udink is a Dutch name. Kok is also a Dutch name.
And no, I'm not related to Yvonne Bell.
[/hit and run]

fuelair · 23rd September 2007, 08:14 PM

It is a slur towards Vietnamese (used by some of my fellows in VietNam). I do think though that the family should be able to use the full (Udink) version as it is their real name. And since anyone reading the plate is not likely to makle that association (unless it was done as U dink which I don't think was the plan).

I assume (note that word carefully) that dink may have come from the phrase "dinky(i) dau" for "bad".

Beerina · 24th September 2007, 09:48 AM

When I was a little kid, a teenage brother and sister called me names once. One called me a "dork", the other, a "dinkus". I never did figure out what a "dinkus" was.

Beerina · 24th September 2007, 09:50 AM

And now, the punch line.

Wait for it...

DMV: "...which reminds me. We also have to go have a chat with Mr. and Mrs. Usukass."

billydkid · 24th September 2007, 10:07 AM

There was a guy in CA who drove a nice BMW convertible of which he was proud. He had the license plate "TOPLSS" until somebody's sensitivities were offended and he had to turn it in. We're just a sensitive bunch here in America. Oh the horror!

vexed · 24th September 2007, 10:31 AM

Makes me wonder if they'll make Penn remove his 'atheist' license plate, that's got to offend someone also. Makes me sad to live in a country of whiners.

Crazycowbob · 24th September 2007, 10:51 AM

I find YKO-6L1 highly offensive, as well as YB1-X7X, and frankly most license plates in a xxx-xxx format, I think everyone who uses one should have it changed to satiate my freedom to not be offended by their plates.

Alareth · 24th September 2007, 07:48 PM

A few years ago I remember reading about one state that had the following problem looming on the horizon; the alpha sequence on the plates was quickly approching the point where it would read SEX.

It was the source of many, many arguments about whether to skip and go to SEY or ignore it.

OnlyTellsTruths · 24th September 2007, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Alareth

A few years ago I remember reading about one state that had the following problem looming on the horizon; the alpha sequence on the plates was quickly approching the point where it would read SEX.

It was the source of many, many arguments about whether to skip and go to SEY or ignore it.

Was it so long ago that it spelled ay es es (or dare i say en eye gee) that they had forgotten how they had solved the problem the first time?

cloudshipsrule · 25th September 2007, 11:59 AM

Additionally, 'DINK' is military slang meaning a family with two incomes and no children. (Dual income, no kids.)

pgwenthold · 25th September 2007, 01:00 PM

Dink is the name of the girl Bond is with in Florida in "Goldfinger."

"Dink, this is Felix. Felix, this is Dink."
"Hi, Dink"

I had a good friend in college who was an ardent feminist (and lesbian) and Bond fan, and after we saw that movie, I started calling her Dink, just because she was so much the complete opposite of the bimbo in the movie (like calling a fat man "Tiny"). Her mom asked, why do you let him do that? She said, it could have been worse, he could have started calling her Goodhead.

She moved to NY after college, and I haven't talked to her for a few years. I miss my Dink.

Loss Leader · 25th September 2007, 01:06 PM

The Smoking Gun has been keeping track of this sort of thing for a while.

Look here.

pgwenthold · 25th September 2007, 02:05 PM

What's wrong with WAFFNSS?

Dorian Gray · 25th September 2007, 03:47 PM

Dink is a mediocre industrial band from the mid '90s.

Spindrift · 25th September 2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

What's wrong with WAFFNSS?

Not sure if that is rhetorical or not.

That would be Waffen SS. I assume most anything to do with the Nazis would be offensive.

pgwenthold · 25th September 2007, 06:29 PM

Not rhetorical. What does Waffen mean (my deutsch is weak)

Spindrift · 25th September 2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Not rhetorical. What does Waffen mean (my deutsch is weak)

I think it means Weapon, not really sure why they were called that. It was the branch of the SS headed by Himmler. They included Hitler's personal body guard so they were supposedly the fanatics of the fanatics.

NeoRicen · 26th September 2007, 02:05 AM

This reminds me of when an Australian Catholic School refused to accept a family with the last name 'Hell'.

How can a name be offensive anyway? How is ANYONE going to be offended by a guy with the name Udink??

Hamradioguy · 27th September 2007, 07:14 PM

Even in liberal old Vermont we have to deal with DMV nonsense. Years ago a member of a ski club, the Middlebury Rat Fink Association, applied for a vanity plate to read: MRFA. Nothing bad about that right? But when you apply for a vanity plate you have to explain just what the letters and/or numbers mean. The poor guy was honest and told DMV about his ski club. Instant uproar, as someone in the DMV decided that "Rat Fink" was a naughty word and so therefore the INITIALS themselves could not be used on the plate.

I seem to recall the applicant prevailed, but not before a long convoluted appeal process...and a huge amount of snickering from the press.

Gurdur · 28th September 2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

I think it means Weapon, not really sure why they were called that.

The SS roughly divided into two sections; the Waffen SS were the ones who fought in battle. IOW, the Waffen SS were the most heavily militarized (and also had better equipment than the regular army). The name Waffen refers to them being militarized for military battle.

UnrepentantSinner · 29th September 2007, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

I assume (note that word carefully) that dink may have come from the phrase "dinky(i) dau" for "bad".

Dinky Dao means crazy.

TragicMonkey · 29th September 2007, 07:20 AM

What's the point in worrying about license plates offending people when they can put any bumper stickers they want on their car? Those are a much broader avenue for offense because they aren't limited to garbled spellings, limited space, and convoluted initialisms. If I really, really want to tell total strangers on the road what I think about a political party or a brand of car or a race of people or a sports team, I can do it without the DMV.

It's like a city bylaw that you can't put political signs in your yard, but having no law against painting political signs on your entire house.

Elizabeth I · 30th September 2007, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Crazycowbob

I find YKO-6L1 highly offensive, as well as YB1-X7X, and frankly most license plates in a xxx-xxx format, I think everyone who uses one should have it changed to satiate my freedom to not be offended by their plates.

And let's not forget any randomization that might lead to 13, 666, 911 or other numbers that might "offend."

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

What's the point in worrying about license plates offending people when they can put any bumper stickers they want on their car? Those are a much broader avenue for offense because they aren't limited to garbled spellings, limited space, and convoluted initialisms. If I really, really want to tell total strangers on the road what I think about a political party or a brand of car or a race of people or a sports team, I can do it without the DMV.

It's like a city bylaw that you can't put political signs in your yard, but having no law against painting political signs on your entire house.

Ah, but bumper sticker profits don't go into the public tax coffers. Or something.

Walrus32 · 30th September 2007, 02:52 PM

I recall some years ago the story that California issued plates to a urologist: IV SKIN.

(Apparently, no one in the license bureau knew how to read Roman numerals.)

strathmeyer · 30th September 2007, 07:13 PM

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/blueplate/assorgy1.html

Gaia · 1st October 2007, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Walrus32

I recall some years ago the story that California issued plates to a urologist: IV SKIN.

(Apparently, no one in the license bureau knew how to read Roman numerals.)

Just the thought of people's reactions (

) when they realize what those plates say makes me laugh.....

Radwaste · 1st October 2007, 04:20 PM

Some time ago, it was reported that Dr. Ruth's vanity plate was "4PLAY".

On her Honda Prelude.

666 · 2nd October 2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

And let's not forget any randomization that might lead to 13, 666, 911 or other numbers that might "offend."

... always willing to oblige.

(Although I've recently sold the car.

)

Professor Yaffle · 2nd October 2007, 07:09 AM

The German footballer Stefan Kuntz (am I going to have the mods on my back for this...?) had better watch out if he is in the US...

23rd September 2007, 01:50 PM	#1
Miss Anthrope All your post are belong to us Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: A Tiny Oasis in the PNW Posts: 3,597	Oregon DMV declares last name offensive Apparently "Dink" is a racial slur or possibly sexually obscene, so the Udink family is out of luck with their vanity plates. Quote: House, who serves on the panel, said the reasons were the sexual references that can be associated with the name, which can be treated as a verb. "DINK has several derogatory meanings," wrote panel member Yvonne Bell. She said it also can be a racial slur, especially toward Vietnamese. House said the "U" in the front could be construed as "You." It seems unreal to Mike Udink, whose name is Dutch. He says it is a common name in The Netherlands. "Since when can a panel dictate whether your name's offensive or not?" asked Udink, a lineman for Pacific Power. The family wonders why the plates were fine for years, then recalled.
	__________________ We're not elected officials, nor are we paid professionals. You want us to act as such? Fine. Cough up the cash - because as a professional, I don't come cheap."-Jmercer, who happens to rock.[/color]

23rd September 2007, 04:55 PM	#3
Bell beautiful freak Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 20,597	[hit and run] Yep, Udink is a Dutch name. Kok is also a Dutch name. And no, I'm not related to Yvonne Bell. [/hit and run]
	__________________ Every single day of my life has been worse than the day before it. So that means that every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life. I♥NY You gotta love cops.

23rd September 2007, 08:14 PM	#4
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,301	It is a slur towards Vietnamese (used by some of my fellows in VietNam). I do think though that the family should be able to use the full (Udink) version as it is their real name. And since anyone reading the plate is not likely to makle that association (unless it was done as U dink which I don't think was the plan). I assume (note that word carefully) that dink may have come from the phrase "dinky(i) dau" for "bad".
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,301

24th September 2007, 09:48 AM	#5
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	When I was a little kid, a teenage brother and sister called me names once. One called me a "dork", the other, a "dinkus". I never did figure out what a "dinkus" was.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

24th September 2007, 09:50 AM	#6
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	And now, the punch line. Wait for it... DMV: "...which reminds me. We also have to go have a chat with Mr. and Mrs. Usukass."
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

23rd September 2007, 04:43 PM	#2
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,286	What a dink.

24th September 2007, 10:07 AM	#7
billydkid Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Blanchester, OH Posts: 4,930	There was a guy in CA who drove a nice BMW convertible of which he was proud. He had the license plate "TOPLSS" until somebody's sensitivities were offended and he had to turn it in. We're just a sensitive bunch here in America. Oh the horror!
	__________________ Wasting away in Blanchester.

24th September 2007, 10:31 AM	#8
vexed Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 314	Makes me wonder if they'll make Penn remove his 'atheist' license plate, that's got to offend someone also. Makes me sad to live in a country of whiners.
	__________________ "Thinking critically is a chore. It does not come naturally or easily. And if the fruits of such efforts are not carefully displayed to young minds, then they will not harvest them. Every school child must be implanted with the wonder of the atom, not the thrall of magic." - Perry DeAngelis

24th September 2007, 10:51 AM	#9
Crazycowbob Bovine Overlord Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 1,377	I find YKO-6L1 highly offensive, as well as YB1-X7X, and frankly most license plates in a xxx-xxx format, I think everyone who uses one should have it changed to satiate my freedom to not be offended by their plates.
	__________________ "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth." Eric Idle, The Meaning of Life

24th September 2007, 07:48 PM	#10
Alareth Expert Expertologist Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 6,802	A few years ago I remember reading about one state that had the following problem looming on the horizon; the alpha sequence on the plates was quickly approching the point where it would read SEX. It was the source of many, many arguments about whether to skip and go to SEY or ignore it.
	__________________ Pixelated Reality \| Alareth Does Art! Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak

24th September 2007, 11:04 PM	#11
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,921	Originally Posted by Alareth A few years ago I remember reading about one state that had the following problem looming on the horizon; the alpha sequence on the plates was quickly approching the point where it would read SEX. It was the source of many, many arguments about whether to skip and go to SEY or ignore it. Was it so long ago that it spelled ay es es (or dare i say en eye gee) that they had forgotten how they had solved the problem the first time?
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,921

25th September 2007, 11:59 AM	#12
cloudshipsrule Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,171	Additionally, 'DINK' is military slang meaning a family with two incomes and no children. (Dual income, no kids.)

25th September 2007, 01:00 PM	#13
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,119	Dink is the name of the girl Bond is with in Florida in "Goldfinger." "Dink, this is Felix. Felix, this is Dink." "Hi, Dink" I had a good friend in college who was an ardent feminist (and lesbian) and Bond fan, and after we saw that movie, I started calling her Dink, just because she was so much the complete opposite of the bimbo in the movie (like calling a fat man "Tiny"). Her mom asked, why do you let him do that? She said, it could have been worse, he could have started calling her Goodhead. She moved to NY after college, and I haven't talked to her for a few years. I miss my Dink.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

25th September 2007, 01:06 PM	#14
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,890	The Smoking Gun has been keeping track of this sort of thing for a while. Look here.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

25th September 2007, 02:05 PM	#15
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,119	What's wrong with WAFFNSS?
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

25th September 2007, 03:47 PM	#16
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 20,210	Dink is a mediocre industrial band from the mid '90s.
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House Additionally to Carlin being funnier than Izzard, I think Dorian is funnier than the Marquis. - Ron Tomkins

25th September 2007, 06:04 PM	#17
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,656	Originally Posted by pgwenthold What's wrong with WAFFNSS? Not sure if that is rhetorical or not. That would be Waffen SS. I assume most anything to do with the Nazis would be offensive.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.

25th September 2007, 06:29 PM	#18
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,119	Not rhetorical. What does Waffen mean (my deutsch is weak)
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

25th September 2007, 06:58 PM	#19
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,656	Originally Posted by pgwenthold Not rhetorical. What does Waffen mean (my deutsch is weak) I think it means Weapon, not really sure why they were called that. It was the branch of the SS headed by Himmler. They included Hitler's personal body guard so they were supposedly the fanatics of the fanatics.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.

26th September 2007, 02:05 AM	#20
NeoRicen Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 444	This reminds me of when an Australian Catholic School refused to accept a family with the last name 'Hell'. How can a name be offensive anyway? How is ANYONE going to be offended by a guy with the name Udink??
NeoRicen Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 444

27th September 2007, 07:14 PM	#21
Hamradioguy Pyrrhonist Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Northern Vermont Posts: 2,273	Even in liberal old Vermont we have to deal with DMV nonsense. Years ago a member of a ski club, the Middlebury Rat Fink Association, applied for a vanity plate to read: MRFA. Nothing bad about that right? But when you apply for a vanity plate you have to explain just what the letters and/or numbers mean. The poor guy was honest and told DMV about his ski club. Instant uproar, as someone in the DMV decided that "Rat Fink" was a naughty word and so therefore the INITIALS themselves could not be used on the plate. I seem to recall the applicant prevailed, but not before a long convoluted appeal process...and a huge amount of snickering from the press.

28th September 2007, 06:07 PM	#22
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875	Originally Posted by Spindrift I think it means Weapon, not really sure why they were called that. The SS roughly divided into two sections; the Waffen SS were the ones who fought in battle. IOW, the Waffen SS were the most heavily militarized (and also had better equipment than the regular army). The name Waffen refers to them being militarized for military battle.
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875

29th September 2007, 01:14 AM	#23
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,438	Originally Posted by fuelair I assume (note that word carefully) that dink may have come from the phrase "dinky(i) dau" for "bad". Dinky Dao means crazy.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

29th September 2007, 07:20 AM	#24
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,281	What's the point in worrying about license plates offending people when they can put any bumper stickers they want on their car? Those are a much broader avenue for offense because they aren't limited to garbled spellings, limited space, and convoluted initialisms. If I really, really want to tell total strangers on the road what I think about a political party or a brand of car or a race of people or a sports team, I can do it without the DMV. It's like a city bylaw that you can't put political signs in your yard, but having no law against painting political signs on your entire house.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

30th September 2007, 11:19 AM	#25
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,353	Originally Posted by Crazycowbob I find YKO-6L1 highly offensive, as well as YB1-X7X, and frankly most license plates in a xxx-xxx format, I think everyone who uses one should have it changed to satiate my freedom to not be offended by their plates. And let's not forget any randomization that might lead to 13, 666, 911 or other numbers that might "offend." Originally Posted by TragicMonkey What's the point in worrying about license plates offending people when they can put any bumper stickers they want on their car? Those are a much broader avenue for offense because they aren't limited to garbled spellings, limited space, and convoluted initialisms. If I really, really want to tell total strangers on the road what I think about a political party or a brand of car or a race of people or a sports team, I can do it without the DMV. It's like a city bylaw that you can't put political signs in your yard, but having no law against painting political signs on your entire house. Ah, but bumper sticker profits don't go into the public tax coffers. Or something.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask... Last edited by Elizabeth I; 30th September 2007 at 11:20 AM. Reason: to correct a typo

30th September 2007, 02:52 PM	#26
Walrus32 Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 469	I recall some years ago the story that California issued plates to a urologist: IV SKIN. (Apparently, no one in the license bureau knew how to read Roman numerals.)
Walrus32 Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 469

30th September 2007, 07:13 PM	#27
strathmeyer seriously unable to be serious Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 2,382	http://www.thesmokinggun.com/blueplate/assorgy1.html

1st October 2007, 04:19 AM	#28
Gaia New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5	Originally Posted by Walrus32 I recall some years ago the story that California issued plates to a urologist: IV SKIN. (Apparently, no one in the license bureau knew how to read Roman numerals.) Just the thought of people's reactions () when they realize what those plates say makes me laugh.....
Gaia New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5

1st October 2007, 04:20 PM	#29
Radwaste New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14	Some time ago, it was reported that Dr. Ruth's vanity plate was "4PLAY". On her Honda Prelude.
Radwaste New Blood Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14	__________________ I have nothing new to say, but I can rearrange and expose things to get you to think about them. If you're looking for inspiration, you should look everywhere. A good place is http://www.cruxshadows.com/ .

2nd October 2007, 06:49 AM	#30
666 Whingeing Pom Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Slightly to the east of Kernow. Posts: 1,330	Originally Posted by Elizabeth I And let's not forget any randomization that might lead to 13, 666, 911 or other numbers that might "offend." ... always willing to oblige. (Although I've recently sold the car. )
	__________________

2nd October 2007, 07:09 AM	#31
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,447	The German footballer Stefan Kuntz (am I going to have the mods on my back for this...?) had better watch out if he is in the US...
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat