FREE TAPATALK APP

Checkmite · 25th September 2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

ST. GEORGE, Utah - The leader of a polygamous Mormon splinter group was convicted Tuesday of being an accomplice to rape for forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.

Warren Jeffs, 51, could get life in prison after a trial that threw a spotlight on a renegade community along the Arizona-Utah line where as many as 10,000 of Jeffs' followers practice plural marriage and revere him as a mighty prophet with dominion over their salvation.

...

Prosecutors said Jeffs, who performed the ceremony, forced the girl into marriage and sex against her will. Jurors said they agreed Jeffs rejected the girl's pleas and refused to release her from the marriage.

"He was pretty much her only ticket out of the relationship," said juror Jerry Munk, 36.

Defense attorney Wally Bugden, who told jurors that Jeffs was a victim of religious persecution, declined to comment.

The ugly power of religion.

Travis · 25th September 2007, 08:43 PM

This story reminded me of this website:http://marryourdaughter.biz/

It's not real people, so don't worry.

Of course what this real man forced this real 14 year old to do was real and disgusting.

RandFan · 25th September 2007, 08:53 PM

Damn Cool!

The guy is a real evil prick.

Bikewer · 26th September 2007, 04:58 AM

They've been covering this case pretty closely on NPR. There are a variety of other issues associated with these odd cults. One is the practice of "expelling" coming-of-age young men so that they won't compete with the "elders" for the females....

These guys, often as young as 16 or 17, find themselves cast out of a totally-controlled commune existence, without social skills or jobs, and limited education. Their lives have been completely dominated by the sect up to that point.

I understand a large portion of one of these fundamentalist sects has moved to a remote area of Texas in recent years.

Wheezebucket · 26th September 2007, 06:02 AM

If you wanna learn more about the fundamentalist LDS groups, check out a book called 'Under The Banner of Heaven'. It's really well written and gives some pretty detailed insight into the church and how things are run.

Using as a focal point the chilling story of offshoot Mormon fundamentalist brothers Dan and Ron Lafferty, who in 1984 brutally butchered their sister-in-law and 15-month-old niece in the name of a divine revelation, Krakauer explores what he sees as the nature of radical Mormon sects with Svengali-like leaders. Using mostly secondary historical texts and some contemporary primary sources, Krakauer compellingly details the history of the Mormon church from its early 19th-century creation by Joseph Smith (whom Krakauer describes as a convicted con man) to its violent journey from upstate New York to the Midwest and finally Utah, where, after the 1890 renunciation of the church's holy doctrine sanctioning multiple marriages, it transformed itself into one of the world's fastest-growing religions.

sackett · 26th September 2007, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

... the practice of "expelling" coming-of-age young men so that they won't compete with the "elders" for the females....

Supposedly, this happened, at least on occasion, clear back in Brigham Young's day. A well-off Elder with his eye on a nice piece o' crumpet would retain a few Avenging Angels (Young's corps of goons) to persuade competing suitors to leave the territory.

I hope that was just Gentile propaganda. Mostly, anyway.

Cleon · 26th September 2007, 08:27 AM

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the FLDS now.

My prediction: A split, with one faction wanting to elect a new Prophet, and one staying loyal to Jeffs. Given that they were in the process of moving their base of operations to Texas, my guess is that one group will have control over the Colorado City/Hilldale area, and one over the Eldorado compound.

Wheezebucket · 26th September 2007, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the FLDS now.

My prediction: A split, with one faction wanting to elect a new Prophet, and one staying loyal to Jeffs. Given that they were in the process of moving their base of operations to Texas, my guess is that one group will have control over the Colorado City/Hilldale area, and one over the Eldorado compound.

Likely, these kinds of splits seem fairly commonplace already among the FLDS. Everybody's lookin' for their prophet angle.

sackett · 26th September 2007, 08:52 AM

How do the FLDSers recognize a prophet? Do they elect one, or does he announce himself? In the ordinary LDS, as I understand it, the senior Elder is somehow by definition a prophet.

But I'll let any resident Jack Mormons enlighten me on that point.

Geek Goddess · 28th September 2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

Supposedly, this happened, at least on occasion, clear back in Brigham Young's day. A well-off Elder with his eye on a nice piece o' crumpet would retain a few Avenging Angels (Young's corps of goons) to persuade competing suitors to leave the territory.

I hope that was just Gentile propaganda. Mostly, anyway.

This has been documented.

One problem of polygamous societies is that there are always young men who are unable to marry. Since the ratio of of men and women is close to 50%, and men have two, three, or more wives, the less powerful must be driven away or they will stay and foment discord and discontent. Young men in a closed society, who have no possibility of a future with a family, are very unlikely to be happy working and living in a small community that values family above all. I recommend the same book above - it was excellent. In the same year, I also read the following book:

Predators, Prey, and Other Kinfolk: Growing Up in Polygamy - Dorothy Allred Soloman, 2003. I saw this on the discount table at the half price book store, and after reading the "Banner" book, thought I would try this. One woman's story of growing up as the child of a man with 7 wives. She has mixed feelings about her life - loving her father, but being forced to live as outlaws, seeing her various "aunts" contend with jealously, pain, poverty, so that the men in this particular fundamentalist Mormon cult could fulfill their own fantasies of being a member of the 'priesthood'.

In some societies, these young men are often the ones from which mercenary soldiers and terrorists are recruited.

RandFan · 28th September 2007, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Damn Cool!

The guy is a real evil prick.

Looking back I think this was particularly mean spirited.

Good.

Gurdur · 28th September 2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by sackett

How do the FLDSers recognize a prophet? ...

Name tags.

Invidious · 28th September 2007, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gurdur

Name tags.

Golden name tags that they dig up, show to people, and then bury again.

timhau · 28th September 2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Geek Goddess

In some societies, these young men are often the ones from which mercenary soldiers and terrorists are recruited.

And gays.

Gaia · 1st October 2007, 04:08 AM

I really hope Warren Jeffs burns in hell when he departs this place we call earth, and it wouldn't be a bad thing if he got "special" treatment in prison either....

25th September 2007, 08:16 PM	#1
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,979	Warren Jeffs convicted Cult Leader convicted Quote: ST. GEORGE, Utah - The leader of a polygamous Mormon splinter group was convicted Tuesday of being an accomplice to rape for forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin. Warren Jeffs, 51, could get life in prison after a trial that threw a spotlight on a renegade community along the Arizona-Utah line where as many as 10,000 of Jeffs' followers practice plural marriage and revere him as a mighty prophet with dominion over their salvation. ... Prosecutors said Jeffs, who performed the ceremony, forced the girl into marriage and sex against her will. Jurors said they agreed Jeffs rejected the girl's pleas and refused to release her from the marriage. "He was pretty much her only ticket out of the relationship," said juror Jerry Munk, 36. Defense attorney Wally Bugden, who told jurors that Jeffs was a victim of religious persecution, declined to comment. The ugly power of religion.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

25th September 2007, 08:43 PM	#2
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,106	This story reminded me of this website:http://marryourdaughter.biz/ It's not real people, so don't worry. Of course what this real man forced this real 14 year old to do was real and disgusting.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

25th September 2007, 08:53 PM	#3
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,970	Damn Cool! The guy is a real evil prick.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

26th September 2007, 06:02 AM	#5
Wheezebucket Master Cylinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mr. Belvedere's House (in Seattle) Posts: 1,493	If you wanna learn more about the fundamentalist LDS groups, check out a book called 'Under The Banner of Heaven'. It's really well written and gives some pretty detailed insight into the church and how things are run. Using as a focal point the chilling story of offshoot Mormon fundamentalist brothers Dan and Ron Lafferty, who in 1984 brutally butchered their sister-in-law and 15-month-old niece in the name of a divine revelation, Krakauer explores what he sees as the nature of radical Mormon sects with Svengali-like leaders. Using mostly secondary historical texts and some contemporary primary sources, Krakauer compellingly details the history of the Mormon church from its early 19th-century creation by Joseph Smith (whom Krakauer describes as a convicted con man) to its violent journey from upstate New York to the Midwest and finally Utah, where, after the 1890 renunciation of the church's holy doctrine sanctioning multiple marriages, it transformed itself into one of the world's fastest-growing religions.
	__________________ The Evangelists myspace.com/evangelistscomic "My nipples start to bleed on very long runs." - Ian "We called her the gorgon. Not because we liked her." - Nikki

26th September 2007, 06:18 AM	#6
sackett Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Bikewer ... the practice of "expelling" coming-of-age young men so that they won't compete with the "elders" for the females.... Supposedly, this happened, at least on occasion, clear back in Brigham Young's day. A well-off Elder with his eye on a nice piece o' crumpet would retain a few Avenging Angels (Young's corps of goons) to persuade competing suitors to leave the territory. I hope that was just Gentile propaganda. Mostly, anyway.
	__________________ Dyslexic and prond!

26th September 2007, 04:58 AM	#4
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,617	They've been covering this case pretty closely on NPR. There are a variety of other issues associated with these odd cults. One is the practice of "expelling" coming-of-age young men so that they won't compete with the "elders" for the females.... These guys, often as young as 16 or 17, find themselves cast out of a totally-controlled commune existence, without social skills or jobs, and limited education. Their lives have been completely dominated by the sect up to that point. I understand a large portion of one of these fundamentalist sects has moved to a remote area of Texas in recent years.

26th September 2007, 08:27 AM	#7
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,611	It'll be interesting to see what happens to the FLDS now. My prediction: A split, with one faction wanting to elect a new Prophet, and one staying loyal to Jeffs. Given that they were in the process of moving their base of operations to Texas, my guess is that one group will have control over the Colorado City/Hilldale area, and one over the Eldorado compound.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

26th September 2007, 08:47 AM	#8
Wheezebucket Master Cylinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mr. Belvedere's House (in Seattle) Posts: 1,493	Originally Posted by Cleon It'll be interesting to see what happens to the FLDS now. My prediction: A split, with one faction wanting to elect a new Prophet, and one staying loyal to Jeffs. Given that they were in the process of moving their base of operations to Texas, my guess is that one group will have control over the Colorado City/Hilldale area, and one over the Eldorado compound. Likely, these kinds of splits seem fairly commonplace already among the FLDS. Everybody's lookin' for their prophet angle.
	__________________ The Evangelists myspace.com/evangelistscomic "My nipples start to bleed on very long runs." - Ian "We called her the gorgon. Not because we liked her." - Nikki

26th September 2007, 08:52 AM	#9
sackett Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 3,659	How do the FLDSers recognize a prophet? Do they elect one, or does he announce himself? In the ordinary LDS, as I understand it, the senior Elder is somehow by definition a prophet. But I'll let any resident Jack Mormons enlighten me on that point.
	__________________ Dyslexic and prond!

28th September 2007, 06:51 PM	#10
Geek Goddess Hot enough to melt 4" rebar Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Near my books Posts: 6,981	Originally Posted by sackett Supposedly, this happened, at least on occasion, clear back in Brigham Young's day. A well-off Elder with his eye on a nice piece o' crumpet would retain a few Avenging Angels (Young's corps of goons) to persuade competing suitors to leave the territory. I hope that was just Gentile propaganda. Mostly, anyway. This has been documented. One problem of polygamous societies is that there are always young men who are unable to marry. Since the ratio of of men and women is close to 50%, and men have two, three, or more wives, the less powerful must be driven away or they will stay and foment discord and discontent. Young men in a closed society, who have no possibility of a future with a family, are very unlikely to be happy working and living in a small community that values family above all. I recommend the same book above - it was excellent. In the same year, I also read the following book: Predators, Prey, and Other Kinfolk: Growing Up in Polygamy - Dorothy Allred Soloman, 2003. I saw this on the discount table at the half price book store, and after reading the "Banner" book, thought I would try this. One woman's story of growing up as the child of a man with 7 wives. She has mixed feelings about her life - loving her father, but being forced to live as outlaws, seeing her various "aunts" contend with jealously, pain, poverty, so that the men in this particular fundamentalist Mormon cult could fulfill their own fantasies of being a member of the 'priesthood'. In some societies, these young men are often the ones from which mercenary soldiers and terrorists are recruited.
	__________________ You can't fix stupid. Jenny McCarthy - wacko

28th September 2007, 07:02 PM	#11
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,970	Originally Posted by RandFan Damn Cool! The guy is a real evil prick. Looking back I think this was particularly mean spirited. Good.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

28th September 2007, 07:42 PM	#12
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875	Originally Posted by sackett How do the FLDSers recognize a prophet? ... Name tags.
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875

28th September 2007, 10:43 PM	#13
Invidious Thinker Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 184	Originally Posted by Gurdur Name tags. Golden name tags that they dig up, show to people, and then bury again.
Invidious Thinker Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 184	Last edited by Invidious; 28th September 2007 at 10:44 PM. Reason: I'm not supposed to eat anything past midnight...

28th September 2007, 10:55 PM	#14
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,755	Originally Posted by Geek Goddess In some societies, these young men are often the ones from which mercenary soldiers and terrorists are recruited. And gays.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

1st October 2007, 04:08 AM	#15
Gaia New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5	I really hope Warren Jeffs burns in hell when he departs this place we call earth, and it wouldn't be a bad thing if he got "special" treatment in prison either....
Gaia New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5