Warm water

arthwollipot · 26th September 2007, 12:04 AM

I've heard that you should always drink lukewarm water. If you drink cold water, the body has to expend energy to warm it up so that it can be properly absorbed. You urinate less often because the water is more efficiently absorbed by the cells when the water is warm.

This sounds like a load of rubbish to me, although I have heard a similar thing from a paediatrician. He said that it "lubricates the bowel" though, so the stories are not exactly the same.

Discuss.

SomeGuy · 26th September 2007, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I've heard that you should always drink lukewarm water. If you drink cold water, the body has to expend energy to warm it up so that it can be properly absorbed. You urinate less often because the water is more efficiently absorbed by the cells when the water is warm.

This sounds like a load of rubbish to me, although I have heard a similar thing from a paediatrician. He said that it "lubricates the bowel" though, so the stories are not exactly the same.

Discuss.

I'm no physician but I think the first one makes some sense, heating stuff does require energy, but it doesn't need to be heated to be absorped it needs to be heated because your body likes being 37 degree celsius..

Being more efficiently absorbed, would require the water still being cold when it reaches your kidneys to make any difference that sounds like nonsense.

Lubricating the bowels, I have heard that one before sounds wooish put this way, but it does seem to work to take some warm water when obstipated, but that could very well be confirmation bias.

Zep · 26th September 2007, 12:37 AM

I suspect that the "lubricating the bowels" bit is an incorrect logical conclusion derived from the fact that lack of water in the body, say caused by sweating from severe overheating, can lead to constipation and slower peristalsis.

Broes · 26th September 2007, 02:35 AM

Lets assume:

The average body has a mass of 75 Kg
The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg
The average body about 37 celsius
The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius
The average warm water is about 25 celsius

This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225)

Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body.

After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3)
After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3)

A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius...

Professor Yaffle · 26th September 2007, 02:45 AM

Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories?

Southwind17 · 26th September 2007, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories?

Good question. We don't worry too much about breathing in cool air, do we, which has the same effect.

hipparchia · 26th September 2007, 03:08 AM

Now, let me add another line of woo reasoning: food separation.

When you combine foods (e.g. meat and rice) your body will expend more energy to digest them. So, you will compensate by eating more and you will end up fatter, although you expend more calories.

If you drink more cold water, you will expend more calories, so you will eat more to compensate for this and end up fatter.

So, people who drink cold water with their steak and mashed potatoes will be fatter than people who drink a lukewarm glass of water, eat the steak first and and the potatoes an hour later.

Go figure...

Southwind17 · 26th September 2007, 03:19 AM

I think this is, essentially, the basis of the Atkins Diet, but that, supposedly, has the opposite effect! I just loved eating the burgers and sausages out of curiosity. Oh well, in the gym again tonight!

Zep · 26th September 2007, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Broes

Lets assume:

The average body has a mass of 75 Kg
The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg
The average body about 37 celsius
The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius
The average warm water is about 25 celsius

This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225)

Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body.

After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3)
After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3)

A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius...

This all assumes you do not generate any more heat whatsoever during the drinking phase of the experiment!

Cuddles · 26th September 2007, 03:24 AM

Water has a heat capacity of about 4 Jg^-1K^-1. Using Broes' assumption of 0.3kg for a glass of water, that means the energy needed to heat up a glass of water from 15^oC to 37^oC is 300*4*17 = 20,400J = 5,100 Calories. The labels on food are actually in kJ and kCal. According to the bag of crisps (possibly chips if you're American) next to me, one 35g bag contains 752kJ. That means that to replace the energy used in heating a glass of water you would need to eat approximately one crisp, possibly less. Don't plan on losing weight by drinking cold water any time soon.

Blue Bubble · 26th September 2007, 03:42 AM

Oh my, it's only a matter of time before the homeopaths get wind of this, and start selling their stuff to be taken extra-cold to counteract obesity.

Rasmus · 26th September 2007, 03:47 AM

I'm gonna have me some ice cream.

Southwind17 · 26th September 2007, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Water has a heat capacity of about 4 Jg^-1K^-1. Using Broes' assumption of 0.3kg for a glass of water, that means the energy needed to heat up a glass of water from 15^oC to 37^oC is 300*4*17 = 20,400J = 5,100 Calories. The labels on food are actually in kJ and kCal. According to the bag of crisps (possibly chips if you're American) next to me, one 35g bag contains 752kJ. That means that to replace the energy used in heating a glass of water you would need to eat approximately one crisp, possibly less. Don't plan on losing weight by drinking cold water any time soon.

This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only.

I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion?

Cuddles · 26th September 2007, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only.

I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion?

I've bolded the important part.

SomeGuy · 26th September 2007, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Southwind17

This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only.

I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion?

You are underestimating how much heat is lost when you burn something underneath a glass or pan etc...

Try to pretend it completely burns inside the water... there are still significant losses, but I think even intuitively you can see this would yield a larger heat gain...

Southwind17 · 26th September 2007, 04:00 AM

OK - I thought it would be something like that. Just shows you eh how much energy we must waste!

Professor Yaffle · 26th September 2007, 04:07 AM

On a quick google, I found the following doozy:

Quote:

Drinking hot water after meals reduces cancer risk. Let me explain how. Drinking cold water will solidify the oil part of the food we have eaten. This will slow down the digestion process. And when this sludge reacts with the digestive enzymes and acids, it will break down and will start getting absorbed by the intestine faster than the solid food. This lines the intestine. The consequence is that this will turn into fats and lead to cancer. Therefore it is best to drink hot soup or warm water after a meal.

Cold water can also in extreme circumstances lead to heart attacks. As we have our meals enzymes and acid secretions start and this process sort of warms up the body. Drinking cold water is like attacking the body with an exactly opposite temperature. Not only does the whole procedure of digestion gets interrupted or slows down, the body can also react in the form of a heart attack. It does not always come after a pain in the right arm or pain in the chest.

http://www.healthoma.com/a-glass-of-...s-cancer-risk/

Southwind17 · 26th September 2007, 04:11 AM

Food for thought!

Professor Yaffle · 26th September 2007, 04:15 AM

Apparently the question of warm or cold water is significant for the milk yield in dairy animals! You learn something new every day (and most of it will be of no use to you at all).

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/4/1091

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1996.d01-727.x

http://ltnet.lv-h.de/en/volltext/Lt2...TF_097_101.pdf

http://ltnet.lv-h.de/en/volltext/Lt2...4E_304_305.pdf

Broes · 26th September 2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

question of warm or cold water is significant for the milk yield in dairy animals!

I also bet they drink a bit more then 0.3 liters

Wheezebucket · 26th September 2007, 05:56 AM

I heard this from people all the time when I lived in China. I told em to shove off, because warm water is gross, and Zeus made ice for a reason - to keep our drinks cold. My logic won over a lot of hearts and minds.

Gord_in_Toronto · 26th September 2007, 06:19 AM

Since the body produces excess heat at pretty much all times (excluding Winters in Winnipeg), surely the energy required to heat the water would have to be disposed of anyway (by perspiration, for example).

Cainkane1 · 26th September 2007, 06:21 AM

Yeah but cold drinks on a hot day are so pleasant to drink. May not be a good idea but it sure is pleasant.

Professor Yaffle · 26th September 2007, 06:27 AM

If cold water is bad for you, will my ice cube crunching addiction kill me?

Lisa Simpson · 26th September 2007, 06:30 AM

My sis-in-law's pediatrician told her not to bother heating up her baby's bottle because as soon as it got inside it would be heated up to body temperature. I'm happy to report my niece is alive and well and going to the Homecoming Dance this Saturday night.

By the logic used in the OP, one should eat all of one's food and drink at body temperature (which would be dangerous, BTW). Hot food has to be cooled down to body temp and cold food has to be warmed up. Warm beverages can have a laxative effect, which could be the lubricating the bowels silliness.

JoeEllison · 26th September 2007, 06:33 AM

The way I understood it, the claim is that colder water just doesn't absorb as quickly, that it sits in the stomach until it warms a bit before moving to the rest of the body. Could that part be true?

Lisa Simpson · 26th September 2007, 06:38 AM

Not according to any of my nutrition textbooks. And like I said, my niece's doctor said as soon as it hit the body, it warms up.

Jimbo07 · 26th September 2007, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson

Not according to any of my nutrition textbooks. And like I said, my niece's doctor said as soon as it hit the body, it warms up.

Which of course isn't technically possible because heating takes some some finite amount of time (even near catastrophically exothermic processes

).

Professor Yaffle · 26th September 2007, 08:57 AM

A couple of places I found he opposit assertion - that cold water is absorbed more quickly than warm. Not sure how reliable their info is either. This quote is from the Urban Legends site.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...cold_water.htm

Quote:

What studies do exist mainly extoll the benefits of drinking cold water, especially during and after vigorous exercise. Cold water is absorbed by the body more quickly than warm water and can help lower one's body temperature, preventing dehydration.

And this from a dietician's website:

http://www.dietitian.com/fluids.html

Quote:

Q. I've noticed recommendations for cold water a couple of times recently. Is there a difference between room temperature and cold water as far as how the body uses it?

A. Cold (40 - 50 degrees F) water is absorbed more quickly from the stomach. Also, if cold water is drank during physical exercise has the dual effect of also cooling the internal body temperature along with sweat produced by exercise. Since sweat is your body’s way of cooling itself, leave sweat on your skin and you should feel cooler.

rudar · 26th September 2007, 05:40 PM

I doubt it makes much difference under normal conditions. One morning while winter camping in a snow cave at about 15-20 C below, I determined that I was a bit dehydrated, and slammed back a full liter of water before noticing that it *wasn't* the bottle I had had in my sleeping bag overnight, and was in fact starting to freeze over. That definitely chilled me to the core, and it was a good half-hour of focussing on getting warm again before I could continue with the breaking-camp routine. But I don't think that qualifies as normal conditions.

fishbob · 26th September 2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Broes

Lets assume:

The average body has a mass of 75 Kg
The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg
The average body about 37 celsius
The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius
The average warm water is about 25 celsius

This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225)

Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body.

After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3)
After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3)

A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius...

The ice-water weight loss program:

Average cold water with ice cubes floating in it - about 1 degree Celsius -
per liter, warmed to body temp is 36 Kcal. Plus all that running to the bathroom burns off even more of those unwanted calories.

Kilgore Trout · 26th September 2007, 06:32 PM

Along with the idea of drinking cold water during exercise, perhaps the idea might be that it cools the stomach (and the esophagus, etc) causing the body to (over?) react and try to raise the body's temperature, thus expending energy. Very cold water may shock the system into thinking there is something very wrong, too. The end result may be (based on pure speculation on my part) a body temperature higher than normal, and then even a bit more energy expended to reach equilibrium.

plumjam · 26th September 2007, 07:14 PM

lol
come on guys, life's too short

arthwollipot · 26th September 2007, 08:27 PM

I've unleashed a monster!

Thanks everyone for enlightening me on this subject.

Foster Zygote · 27th September 2007, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories?

Living in a part of the world where it's close to 100F and very humid in the summer I need the extra cooling I get from a big, cold glass of water.

Soapy Sam · 28th September 2007, 08:12 AM

I'm mildly amazed nobody has mentioned British "warm" beer.

Miss Anthrope · 28th September 2007, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Blue Bubble

Oh my, it's only a matter of time before the homeopaths get wind of this, and start selling their stuff to be taken extra-cold to counteract obesity.

It's already happened, trust me, I have a first hand anecdote.

Also, it's all over places like weight watchers and such as gospel.

bruto · 28th September 2007, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Bubble

Oh my, it's only a matter of time before the homeopaths get wind of this, and start selling their stuff to be taken extra-cold to counteract obesity.

But wouldn't they then have to diminish the coldness past the vanishing point by serving their cold water hot?

DevilsAdvocate · 28th September 2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I've heard that you should always drink lukewarm water. If you drink cold water, the body has to expend energy to warm it up so that it can be properly absorbed.

Isn't this fundamentally ridiculous? The expended energy from drinking a cold glass of water is so minute it is irrelevant. Instead of drinking warm water, you could put on a hat for ten minutes, or a jacket, or a heavier shirt; or move closer to the radiator for a few seconds; or eat something slightly warm; or walk around for a few seconds. It won’t matter. There are many, many more things that affect your body that make the temperature of a glass of water insignificant.

blutoski · 29th September 2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Isn't this fundamentally ridiculous? The expended energy from drinking a cold glass of water is so minute it is irrelevant. Instead of drinking warm water, you could put on a hat for ten minutes, or a jacket, or a heavier shirt; or move closer to the radiator for a few seconds; or eat something slightly warm; or walk around for a few seconds. It won’t matter. There are many, many more things that affect your body that make the temperature of a glass of water insignificant.

Basically. The fact of the matter is that the body is constantly producing more heat than it needs, and is expelling it. Mostly, to heat up the immediate environment (air, seat cushion, &c). Room temp is between 20-25C. Body temp is 37C.

When you drink cold water, some of the energy that was being wasted in one way will be temporarily diverted to heating the water to body temp. Your body doesn't have to burn 'extra' calories to do this.

Having said that: there are extreme situations where your body is in an environment that is either too hot or too cold for normal operations to mitigate. We can die of heat exhaustion/stroke or hypothermia. The case of the camper drinking icewater is an example of the latter: the body needs to go to extreme measures to adapt, and may fail. In which case, drinking hot or cold water can be critical.

But under normal circumstances, there is no 'energy' benefit to drinking warm water. Warm water is probably also at room temperature, say, 20C, which means the body is *still* warming it up to 37C. Water at body temperature would probably feel 'hot'.

Having said that, there is a noticeable effect from drinking hot/cold liquids when within the normal body temperature range. The reason is that the esophagus is close to the pulmonary vascular system, as well as the cardovascular system. Cold drinks can cool down blood passing nearby, and perhaps even pass to the brain through the carotids. This effect will 'trick' the body into thinking it is a different temperature, and provide some brief relief, while the body takes a moment to regulate temp according to surroundings.

The second discussion about digestion is also unrelistic, and much goofier. The body doesn't absorb water until it passes throuh the large intestine, which is to say: water absorption is the last thing the body does to a bolus before excretion. There is no delay in the stomach. Even if that was true, hesitation for thirty seconds can't have a noticeable effect on overall digestion.

26th September 2007, 12:04 AM	#1
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,018	Warm water I've heard that you should always drink lukewarm water. If you drink cold water, the body has to expend energy to warm it up so that it can be properly absorbed. You urinate less often because the water is more efficiently absorbed by the cells when the water is warm. This sounds like a load of rubbish to me, although I have heard a similar thing from a paediatrician. He said that it "lubricates the bowel" though, so the stories are not exactly the same. Discuss.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

26th September 2007, 12:18 AM	#2
SomeGuy Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 497	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I've heard that you should always drink lukewarm water. If you drink cold water, the body has to expend energy to warm it up so that it can be properly absorbed. You urinate less often because the water is more efficiently absorbed by the cells when the water is warm. This sounds like a load of rubbish to me, although I have heard a similar thing from a paediatrician. He said that it "lubricates the bowel" though, so the stories are not exactly the same. Discuss. I'm no physician but I think the first one makes some sense, heating stuff does require energy, but it doesn't need to be heated to be absorped it needs to be heated because your body likes being 37 degree celsius.. Being more efficiently absorbed, would require the water still being cold when it reaches your kidneys to make any difference that sounds like nonsense. Lubricating the bowels, I have heard that one before sounds wooish put this way, but it does seem to work to take some warm water when obstipated, but that could very well be confirmation bias.
SomeGuy Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 497

26th September 2007, 12:37 AM	#3
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	I suspect that the "lubricating the bowels" bit is an incorrect logical conclusion derived from the fact that lack of water in the body, say caused by sweating from severe overheating, can lead to constipation and slower peristalsis.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

26th September 2007, 02:35 AM	#4
Broes Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 156	Lets assume: The average body has a mass of 75 Kg The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg The average body about 37 celsius The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius The average warm water is about 25 celsius This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225) Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body. After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3) After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3) A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius...
Broes Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 156

26th September 2007, 02:45 AM	#5
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,351	Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories?
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat

26th September 2007, 02:53 AM	#6
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories? Good question. We don't worry too much about breathing in cool air, do we, which has the same effect.
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?

26th September 2007, 03:08 AM	#7
hipparchia Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 472	Now, let me add another line of woo reasoning: food separation. When you combine foods (e.g. meat and rice) your body will expend more energy to digest them. So, you will compensate by eating more and you will end up fatter, although you expend more calories. If you drink more cold water, you will expend more calories, so you will eat more to compensate for this and end up fatter. So, people who drink cold water with their steak and mashed potatoes will be fatter than people who drink a lukewarm glass of water, eat the steak first and and the potatoes an hour later. Go figure...
	__________________ "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli

26th September 2007, 03:19 AM	#8
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,462	I think this is, essentially, the basis of the Atkins Diet, but that, supposedly, has the opposite effect! I just loved eating the burgers and sausages out of curiosity. Oh well, in the gym again tonight!
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?

26th September 2007, 03:24 AM	#9
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by Broes Lets assume: The average body has a mass of 75 Kg The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg The average body about 37 celsius The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius The average warm water is about 25 celsius This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225) Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body. After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3) After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3) A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius... This all assumes you do not generate any more heat whatsoever during the drinking phase of the experiment!
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

26th September 2007, 03:24 AM	#10
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,586	Water has a heat capacity of about 4 Jg^-1K^-1. Using Broes' assumption of 0.3kg for a glass of water, that means the energy needed to heat up a glass of water from 15^oC to 37^oC is 300417 = 20,400J = 5,100 Calories. The labels on food are actually in kJ and kCal. According to the bag of crisps (possibly chips if you're American) next to me, one 35g bag contains 752kJ. That means that to replace the energy used in heating a glass of water you would need to eat approximately one crisp, possibly less. Don't plan on losing weight by drinking cold water any time soon.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

26th September 2007, 03:42 AM	#11
Blue Bubble Sharper than a thorn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Duxford, Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 2,225	Oh my, it's only a matter of time before the homeopaths get wind of this, and start selling their stuff to be taken extra-cold to counteract obesity.

26th September 2007, 03:47 AM	#12
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	I'm gonna have me some ice cream.
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	__________________ "Well, the religious community could not just make it up." - JetLeg

26th September 2007, 03:50 AM	#13
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,462	Originally Posted by Cuddles Water has a heat capacity of about 4 Jg^-1K^-1. Using Broes' assumption of 0.3kg for a glass of water, that means the energy needed to heat up a glass of water from 15^oC to 37^oC is 300417 = 20,400J = 5,100 Calories. The labels on food are actually in kJ and kCal. According to the bag of crisps (possibly chips if you're American) next to me, one 35g bag contains 752kJ. That means that to replace the energy used in heating a glass of water you would need to eat approximately one crisp, possibly less. Don't plan on losing weight by drinking cold water any time soon. This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only. I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion?
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?

26th September 2007, 03:55 AM	#14
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,586	Originally Posted by Southwind17 This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only. I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion? I've bolded the important part.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

26th September 2007, 03:56 AM	#15
SomeGuy Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 497	Originally Posted by Southwind17 This doesn't seem right to me. If I heated the glass of water by lighting and burning said crisp beneath it (assuming no heat is wasted) I'm struggling to see how it could raise the temperature by so much. The burning process would probably, I guess, last a matter of seconds only. I'm probably missing some important aspect of physics, but intuitively, something seems awry. Could it be the Cal to kCal conversion? You are underestimating how much heat is lost when you burn something underneath a glass or pan etc... Try to pretend it completely burns inside the water... there are still significant losses, but I think even intuitively you can see this would yield a larger heat gain...
SomeGuy Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 497

26th September 2007, 04:00 AM	#16
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,462	OK - I thought it would be something like that. Just shows you eh how much energy we must waste!
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?

26th September 2007, 04:07 AM	#17
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,351	On a quick google, I found the following doozy: Quote: Drinking hot water after meals reduces cancer risk. Let me explain how. Drinking cold water will solidify the oil part of the food we have eaten. This will slow down the digestion process. And when this sludge reacts with the digestive enzymes and acids, it will break down and will start getting absorbed by the intestine faster than the solid food. This lines the intestine. The consequence is that this will turn into fats and lead to cancer. Therefore it is best to drink hot soup or warm water after a meal. Cold water can also in extreme circumstances lead to heart attacks. As we have our meals enzymes and acid secretions start and this process sort of warms up the body. Drinking cold water is like attacking the body with an exactly opposite temperature. Not only does the whole procedure of digestion gets interrupted or slows down, the body can also react in the form of a heart attack. It does not always come after a pain in the right arm or pain in the chest. http://www.healthoma.com/a-glass-of-...s-cancer-risk/
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26th September 2007, 04:11 AM	#18
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,462	Food for thought!
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?

26th September 2007, 04:15 AM	#19
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,351	Apparently the question of warm or cold water is significant for the milk yield in dairy animals! You learn something new every day (and most of it will be of no use to you at all). http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/4/1091 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1996.d01-727.x http://ltnet.lv-h.de/en/volltext/Lt2...TF_097_101.pdf http://ltnet.lv-h.de/en/volltext/Lt2...4E_304_305.pdf
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26th September 2007, 05:07 AM	#20
Broes Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 156	Quote: question of warm or cold water is significant for the milk yield in dairy animals! I also bet they drink a bit more then 0.3 liters
Broes Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 156

26th September 2007, 05:56 AM	#21
Wheezebucket Master Cylinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mr. Belvedere's House (in Seattle) Posts: 1,493	I heard this from people all the time when I lived in China. I told em to shove off, because warm water is gross, and Zeus made ice for a reason - to keep our drinks cold. My logic won over a lot of hearts and minds.
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26th September 2007, 06:19 AM	#22
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,417	Since the body produces excess heat at pretty much all times (excluding Winters in Winnipeg), surely the energy required to heat the water would have to be disposed of anyway (by perspiration, for example).
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26th September 2007, 06:21 AM	#23
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	Yeah but cold drinks on a hot day are so pleasant to drink. May not be a good idea but it sure is pleasant.
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26th September 2007, 06:27 AM	#24
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,351	If cold water is bad for you, will my ice cube crunching addiction kill me?
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26th September 2007, 06:30 AM	#25
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,061	My sis-in-law's pediatrician told her not to bother heating up her baby's bottle because as soon as it got inside it would be heated up to body temperature. I'm happy to report my niece is alive and well and going to the Homecoming Dance this Saturday night. By the logic used in the OP, one should eat all of one's food and drink at body temperature (which would be dangerous, BTW). Hot food has to be cooled down to body temp and cold food has to be warmed up. Warm beverages can have a laxative effect, which could be the lubricating the bowels silliness.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers Last edited by Lisa Simpson; 26th September 2007 at 06:33 AM.

26th September 2007, 06:33 AM	#26
JoeEllison Cuddly Like a Koala Bear Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 7,276	The way I understood it, the claim is that colder water just doesn't absorb as quickly, that it sits in the stomach until it warms a bit before moving to the rest of the body. Could that part be true?

26th September 2007, 06:38 AM	#27
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,061	Not according to any of my nutrition textbooks. And like I said, my niece's doctor said as soon as it hit the body, it warms up.
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26th September 2007, 08:19 AM	#28
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	Originally Posted by Lisa Simpson Not according to any of my nutrition textbooks. And like I said, my niece's doctor said as soon as it hit the body, it warms up. Which of course isn't technically possible because heating takes some some finite amount of time (even near catastrophically exothermic processes ).
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26th September 2007, 08:57 AM	#29
Professor Yaffle Butterbeans and Breadcrumbs Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Emily's shop Posts: 15,351	A couple of places I found he opposit assertion - that cold water is absorbed more quickly than warm. Not sure how reliable their info is either. This quote is from the Urban Legends site. http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...cold_water.htm Quote: What studies do exist mainly extoll the benefits of drinking cold water, especially during and after vigorous exercise. Cold water is absorbed by the body more quickly than warm water and can help lower one's body temperature, preventing dehydration. And this from a dietician's website: http://www.dietitian.com/fluids.html Quote: Q. I've noticed recommendations for cold water a couple of times recently. Is there a difference between room temperature and cold water as far as how the body uses it? A. Cold (40 - 50 degrees F) water is absorbed more quickly from the stomach. Also, if cold water is drank during physical exercise has the dual effect of also cooling the internal body temperature along with sweat produced by exercise. Since sweat is your body’s way of cooling itself, leave sweat on your skin and you should feel cooler.
	__________________ I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that. My blog "Well I think I've made it abundantly clear in this thread I have no idea what I'm talking about..." - truethat Last edited by Professor Yaffle; 26th September 2007 at 09:16 AM.

26th September 2007, 05:40 PM	#30
rudar Thinker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 148	I doubt it makes much difference under normal conditions. One morning while winter camping in a snow cave at about 15-20 C below, I determined that I was a bit dehydrated, and slammed back a full liter of water before noticing that it wasn't the bottle I had had in my sleeping bag overnight, and was in fact starting to freeze over. That definitely chilled me to the core, and it was a good half-hour of focussing on getting warm again before I could continue with the breaking-camp routine. But I don't think that qualifies as normal conditions.
rudar Thinker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 148

26th September 2007, 06:10 PM	#31
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Originally Posted by Broes Lets assume: The average body has a mass of 75 Kg The content of a glass of water is about 0.3 Kg The average body about 37 celsius The average cold glass of water is about 15 celsius The average warm water is about 25 celsius This makes the ratio in mass 100 : 0.225 (or 1 : 0.00225) Lets also assume that the heat exchange ratio between water and the human body is the same. By ingesting the glass of water, the water and the human body can quickly exchange heat given that the water is completely surrounded by the much large human body. After drinking the cold glass of water, the body becomes 36.91 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x15))/75.3) After drinking the warm glass of water, the body becomes 36.95 Celsius ((75x37)+(0.3x25))/75.3) A whole whopping difference of 0.04 degrees Celsius... The ice-water weight loss program: Average cold water with ice cubes floating in it - about 1 degree Celsius - per liter, warmed to body temp is 36 Kcal. Plus all that running to the bathroom burns off even more of those unwanted calories.
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26th September 2007, 06:32 PM	#32
Kilgore Trout Wuse Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tralfamadore Posts: 1,443	Along with the idea of drinking cold water during exercise, perhaps the idea might be that it cools the stomach (and the esophagus, etc) causing the body to (over?) react and try to raise the body's temperature, thus expending energy. Very cold water may shock the system into thinking there is something very wrong, too. The end result may be (based on pure speculation on my part) a body temperature higher than normal, and then even a bit more energy expended to reach equilibrium.
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26th September 2007, 07:14 PM	#33
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 7,837	lol come on guys, life's too short

26th September 2007, 08:27 PM	#34
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 43,018	I've unleashed a monster! Thanks everyone for enlightening me on this subject.
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27th September 2007, 07:14 AM	#35
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle Well unless you are underweight to start with, why would you worry about drinking cold water causing you to expend a few calories? Living in a part of the world where it's close to 100F and very humid in the summer I need the extra cooling I get from a big, cold glass of water.
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