Religious Tolerance in America

Puppycow · 27th September 2007, 02:03 AM

God Bless the USA!

schlitt · 27th September 2007, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

God Bless the USA!

http://www.linkinn.com/userfiles/Ima...articles-2.jpg

last paradoxical line is hillarious.
fairly scary stuff though....

quixotecoyote · 27th September 2007, 02:14 AM

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

Puppycow · 27th September 2007, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.)

quixotecoyote · 27th September 2007, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.)

The mental image I get of a community of atheist killers is not really that of eco-friendly tree huggers.

But that's just my prejudice I suppose.

H3LL · 27th September 2007, 02:52 AM

Deleted because it's a spoof.

<Beats self for not checking as Fran did>

.

-Fran- · 27th September 2007, 03:12 AM

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp

Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people.

grayman · 27th September 2007, 07:57 AM

These types of letters are always guaranteed to get a comment or two for the newspaper, and increase the readership in the process.

Foster Zygote · 27th September 2007, 08:12 AM

I find that if you replace "atheist" with "Jew" and "God" with "Jesus" it still comes off about the same. It's hate speech resulting from stupidity. I was born here. This is my country too and Alice Shannon of Soldotna can bite me.

What paper was this in BTW? If it had been a rant against Jews or African Americans or Latinos would the paper in question have printed it?

ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience.

-Fran- · 27th September 2007, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience.

Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions.

Foster Zygote · 27th September 2007, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions.

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

fishbob · 27th September 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.

Soldotna is just one of many quaint Alaskan drinking villages with serious fishing problems (according to the bumper stickers). Probably due to the long winters and rampant alcoholism, practical joking is a major pastime. Probably for the same reason, there are more than a few rabid drooling fundies on the loose in these same areas.

-Fran- · 27th September 2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

Two good examples. One of a fundie idiot, who thinks that just because she thinks she is right she can be rude to people. And one of a person who can be a believer and still be tolerant of other people who's not.

-----o0o-----

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??"

plumjam · 27th September 2007, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?".
I answered "I don't".
"Why not?"
"Well I'm an atheist."
Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.

plumjam · 27th September 2007, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get?

-Fran- · 27th September 2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by plumjam

You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get?

Oh yes, that must have been it!!

Foster Zygote · 27th September 2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by plumjam

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK.

No. I'm sure it wouldn't. It would never, never, never, never happen in the United Kingdom. Never.

Quote:

I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.

Just like no one in the UK could ever be really appallingly bad at humor. Never, never, never.

Charlie Monoxide · 27th September 2007, 09:47 PM

I'm currently listening to "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America
by Chris Hedges" book on CD.

The author asks (paraphrasing) "should we be tolerant of intolerant people?" The author responds with an emphatic "No!"

Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group. People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ...

Charlie (hate the haters) Monoxide

arthwollipot · 28th September 2007, 12:30 AM

It's been my experience that here in Australia that sort of thing is a whole lot less common. Here in Canberra, it's the bible-bashers that get the funny looks.

On the other hand, there is Fred Nile.

YouBelieveWHAT? · 28th September 2007, 12:34 AM

Surely a "G" string would be more appropriate?

KingMerv00 · 28th September 2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

I kinda like that ...

I don't like it like that. So you hate an identifiable group...so what? Hate is legal and its expression should be legal too.

Besides, the wackos will marginalize themselves if you let them spout nonsense.

Tanstaafl · 28th September 2007, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

On the other hand, there is Fred Nile.

In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican.

Andronicus · 29th September 2007, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Tanstaafl

In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican.

The Fundamentalist Christian Conservative/Rebuplican marriage seems to be breaking down somewhat, after a quarter of a century, thankfully. And in the Deep South, I think a lot of old school Democrats would be just as likely to agree with the letter to the editor as the Republicans.

technoextreme · 29th September 2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ...

Phelps has problems in the United States let alone Canada. He's pretty much universally hated on both sides of the spectrum. So much so that there were laws that people tried to pass specifically aimed at him.

Quote:

Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group

That isn't freedom of speech though. We are proud of it because there aren't any idiotic cavets like the above.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 29th September 2007, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before.

A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??"

I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face.

I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that.

I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean.

That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky!

Were was he from, if you still remember?

-Fran- · 29th September 2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face.

I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that.

I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean.

That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky!

Were was he from, if you still remember?

Don't know if I would call that luck

Well, even though I, at that time, had never heard of people having views and beliefs like that before (in that "nice" combination) in a western society, it can now sometimes be easy to draw the conclusion that the USA is overrun by them.

But I have met many enough quite normal, intelligent, tolerant and plain nice

Americans both on-line and in reality to know that that sort of fundie is still a minority even though they make noise. And I guess if you looked for it you could find such people in all secular western countries. It's not like we don't have nuts of our own here in Sweden (and some quite nasty ones too). But that special combination seems to be mostly an American thing (at least in some parts of the country)??

And even if it is a minority still, there's too many of them to just dismiss them one might think. I was really surprised to learn later that it is a movement at all, even if it's marginalized. Back then I thought for sure I had just run into a single individual of a certain special madness

I don't remember exactly where he was from, but it was down south somewhere.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 29th September 2007, 11:08 PM

I'm glad you think so

.

You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity.

My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane.

What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion.

Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus.

These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church.

Foster Zygote · 29th September 2007, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

I'm glad you think so

.

You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity.

My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane.

What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion.

Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus.

These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church.

Last year I started a thread about something I heard in a homily while I happened to be at a Catholic mass. I can't be arsed to look up the thread right now so I'll just recount it.

The priest was speaking about homosexuality. He wasn't railing hatefully, but it was clear that he was condemning it as wrong. He asked "What if everyone in the world decided to become homosexual and the human race just died out?". I was certainly amused by the irony of someone who'd taken a vow of celibacy warning of the dangers of people who don't reproduce. Even taking into account the fact that homosexuals can and do have children. Hell they don't even have to have sex. I wanted to stand up and ask, in the same "groovin' on my own words" voice he'd used "What if everyone in the world decided to join the Catholic clergy and take a vow of celibacy and the human race just died out?".

UnrepentantSinner · 29th September 2007, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp

Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people.

Interesting. After this thread was posted back in February, I actually signed up so I could read back letters. I finally got around to sending one via e-mail, but I guess it was after Ms. Shannon's hoax had been exposed.

Also interesting, if the letters printed/posted were representative, I'd say the snopes conclusion is a bit off base as most of the letter writers seemed to be supportive of religious tolerance and freedom... even for atheists.

Henners · 30th September 2007, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by plumjam

Yikes.. pretty mean of her.
That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p****d off with religion.
Next time garrote the b**ch with the E string.

What a sheltered upbringing you must have.

I have just listened to a fundie nutcase extolling the virtues of the Old Testament (his capitals, not mine) on BBC Radio 4 (paid for, in part, by me and, presumably, you) and telling me that evolution is random chance and Intelligent Design is real.

The beeb didn't broadcast a disclaimer, either. So I'm assuming that it's official.

27th September 2007, 02:03 AM	#1
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,707	Religious Tolerance in America God Bless the USA!
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

27th September 2007, 02:12 AM	#2
schlitt Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,081	Originally Posted by Puppycow God Bless the USA! http://www.linkinn.com/userfiles/Ima...articles-2.jpg last paradoxical line is hillarious. fairly scary stuff though....
schlitt Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,081

27th September 2007, 02:14 AM	#3
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place.
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27th September 2007, 02:25 AM	#4
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,707	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place. Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.)
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

27th September 2007, 02:35 AM	#5
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by Puppycow Hmm. Not sure what the second one goes on to say, but it does look a little ominous. (Until all the fish are gone? Somehow I doubt that's fishermen would really want. Maybe it was meant sarcastically.) The mental image I get of a community of atheist killers is not really that of eco-friendly tree huggers. But that's just my prejudice I suppose.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

27th September 2007, 02:52 AM	#6
H3LL Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: (ləʊˈkeɪʃən) - n. 1. a site or position; situation. Posts: 4,976	Deleted because it's a spoof. <Beats self for not checking as Fran did> .
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27th September 2007, 03:12 AM	#7
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people.
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström)

27th September 2007, 07:57 AM	#8
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 6,142	These types of letters are always guaranteed to get a comment or two for the newspaper, and increase the readership in the process.
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge

27th September 2007, 08:12 AM	#9
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	I find that if you replace "atheist" with "Jew" and "God" with "Jesus" it still comes off about the same. It's hate speech resulting from stupidity. I was born here. This is my country too and Alice Shannon of Soldotna can bite me. What paper was this in BTW? If it had been a rant against Jews or African Americans or Latinos would the paper in question have printed it? ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it. Last edited by Foster Zygote; 27th September 2007 at 08:15 AM.

27th September 2007, 08:21 AM	#10
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote ETA: Spoof eh? Should have read further. This one may be a spoof but I can assure you that this sort of sentiment is all too common in my experience. Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions.
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström)

27th September 2007, 08:32 AM	#11
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by -Fran- Yeah, Snopes said much the same thing. It might as well have been real, I guess, for all of the people who really do have these opinions. I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?". I answered "I don't". "Why not?" "Well I'm an atheist." Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

27th September 2007, 08:38 AM	#12
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,666	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote Given that letter and the first line of the one below it, their readership area must be a scary place. Soldotna is just one of many quaint Alaskan drinking villages with serious fishing problems (according to the bumper stickers). Probably due to the long winters and rampant alcoholism, practical joking is a major pastime. Probably for the same reason, there are more than a few rabid drooling fundies on the loose in these same areas.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

27th September 2007, 08:55 AM	#13
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?". I answered "I don't". "Why not?" "Well I'm an atheist." Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future. Two good examples. One of a fundie idiot, who thinks that just because she thinks she is right she can be rude to people. And one of a person who can be a believer and still be tolerant of other people who's not. -----o0o----- More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before. A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??"
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström) Last edited by -Fran-; 27th September 2007 at 09:24 AM.

27th September 2007, 05:58 PM	#14
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 7,837	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I had what started out as a friendly conversation with a woman while I was waiting to pay for a set of guitar strings in a music shop near Bob Jones University. It was pretty casual, centering around how long we'd lived in the area for the most part. Then she asked "What church do you go to?". I answered "I don't". "Why not?" "Well I'm an atheist." Her expression hardened rather suddenly and, taking her merchandise, she said "You people should all be locked up" and left. I was stunned. After I paid for the strings the lady behind the counter said "Well I'm a Baptist and I think what she just said to you was appalling. I think you are a nice young man and you are welcome back here anytime". I thanked her for her kind words and assured her that I would gladly return with my business in the future. Yikes.. pretty mean of her. That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p**d off with religion. Next time garrote the bch with the E string.

27th September 2007, 06:03 PM	#15
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 7,837	Originally Posted by -Fran- More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before. You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get?

27th September 2007, 06:07 PM	#16
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by plumjam You're sure he wasn't just playing hard to get? Oh yes, that must have been it!!
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström)

27th September 2007, 08:13 PM	#17
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by plumjam Yikes.. pretty mean of her. That would never happen here in the UK. No. I'm sure it wouldn't. It would never, never, never, never happen in the United Kingdom. Never. Quote: I can see why Americans can get p**d off with religion. Next time garrote the bch with the E string. Just like no one in the UK could ever be really appallingly bad at humor. Never, never, never.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

27th September 2007, 09:47 PM	#18
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	I'm currently listening to "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America by Chris Hedges" book on CD. The author asks (paraphrasing) "should we be tolerant of intolerant people?" The author responds with an emphatic "No!" Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group. People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ... Charlie (hate the haters) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

28th September 2007, 12:30 AM	#19
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The other side of your screen Posts: 42,956	It's been my experience that here in Australia that sort of thing is a whole lot less common. Here in Canberra, it's the bible-bashers that get the funny looks. On the other hand, there is Fred Nile.
	__________________ Jadey (in RvB game thread): I just want to take a moment to commend Arth on his role as Parasitic Alien Tumor. I think he really connected with the character and there were times when I forgot that he was just acting. That's the kind of talent that you can't teach.

28th September 2007, 12:34 AM	#20
YouBelieveWHAT? Muse Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Nuernberg Posts: 994	Surely a "G" string would be more appropriate?
	__________________ I was planning to study Clairvoyance in school, but as I knew I would fail the exam, decided against it. And thanks to SkepticJ: We'd outgrown the fables, I knew. The sun isn't Apollo's chariot, of course, it's a star that began burning when a god said "Let there be light". Man was not created from clay by Zeus, he was created from clay by Yahweh. Hades didn't restore Euridice to life, please. That would be absurd. Jesus did, of course, restore Lazarus to life.... What morons we were before. How wise we are now. - Dale McGowan

28th September 2007, 01:31 PM	#21
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide I kinda like that ... I don't like it like that. So you hate an identifiable group...so what? Hate is legal and its expression should be legal too. Besides, the wackos will marginalize themselves if you let them spout nonsense.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

28th September 2007, 04:06 PM	#22
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by arthwollipot On the other hand, there is Fred Nile. In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

29th September 2007, 10:32 AM	#23
Andronicus Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 283	Originally Posted by Tanstaafl In the U.S., he'd be a mainstream Republican. The Fundamentalist Christian Conservative/Rebuplican marriage seems to be breaking down somewhat, after a quarter of a century, thankfully. And in the Deep South, I think a lot of old school Democrats would be just as likely to agree with the letter to the editor as the Republicans.

29th September 2007, 11:02 AM	#24
technoextreme Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,786	Quote: People like Phelps and a few right-wing talk show hosts would have problems in Canada. I kinda like that ... Phelps has problems in the United States let alone Canada. He's pretty much universally hated on both sides of the spectrum. So much so that there were laws that people tried to pass specifically aimed at him. Quote: Canada has basically the same freedom of speech that the US is so proud of with this one major provision: You cannot promote hate against an identifiable group That isn't freedom of speech though. We are proud of it because there aren't any idiotic cavets like the above.
	Last edited by technoextreme; 29th September 2007 at 11:08 AM.

29th September 2007, 06:09 PM	#25
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Originally Posted by -Fran- More than ten years ago I met a man from USA being in Sweden for a shorter period to work. That was my first, and so far only, meeting with a real fundamental Christian nut, creationist, bigotted, intolerant idiot. I seriously believed he was mentally ill. He talked about evolution being a conspiracy, dinosaur bones being planted, me celebrating death and evilness becuase of my tattoo depicting a bird skeleton, him being saved by god to a new moral and rigtheous life while he got drunk and tried to get my friend into bed (he was married), and how he personally would enjoy putting all lesbians and gays on a boat and exile them from America... and so on, and so on... Sure I had met religious nuts and gay-bashing idiots before, but I had not run into quite this combination of fundamental Christianity, hatemonger and total ignorance before. A few years later I got a PC, got on-line and went. "What? There are more of them??" I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face. I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that. I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean. That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky! Were was he from, if you still remember?

29th September 2007, 10:19 PM	#26
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe I read that...and I blushed and cringed so hard, it hurt my face. I'm embarrassed to be sharing a country with people who go over to other countries and do...that. I have to say though that I never meet people like that. Ever. I meet average variety gay bashers, religious nuts and bigots, yes, but they have enough shame and sense to be open bigots and idiots in private. If you know what I mean. That breed of American idiot I have never encountered personally, even though I know there are people like that...I guess it's only you that's so lucky! Were was he from, if you still remember? Don't know if I would call that luck Well, even though I, at that time, had never heard of people having views and beliefs like that before (in that "nice" combination) in a western society, it can now sometimes be easy to draw the conclusion that the USA is overrun by them. But I have met many enough quite normal, intelligent, tolerant and plain nice Americans both on-line and in reality to know that that sort of fundie is still a minority even though they make noise. And I guess if you looked for it you could find such people in all secular western countries. It's not like we don't have nuts of our own here in Sweden (and some quite nasty ones too). But that special combination seems to be mostly an American thing (at least in some parts of the country)?? And even if it is a minority still, there's too many of them to just dismiss them one might think. I was really surprised to learn later that it is a movement at all, even if it's marginalized. Back then I thought for sure I had just run into a single individual of a certain special madness I don't remember exactly where he was from, but it was down south somewhere.
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström) Last edited by -Fran-; 29th September 2007 at 10:21 PM.

29th September 2007, 11:08 PM	#27
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	I'm glad you think so . You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity. My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane. What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion. Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus. These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church.

29th September 2007, 11:18 PM	#28
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe I'm glad you think so . You know, I'd say that even among Christian conservatives and possibly even among Christian evangelicals/ fundamentalists that type of hate-monger fundamentalist is a rarity. My father is a conservative and ex-long time Republican (he left the party because of Bush) and a Catholic and he says that he finds these confusing-politics-with-religion, Intelligent Deisgn, 6000-year-old Earth, hate-mongering American fundies borderline insane. What I find absolutely amazing about these people, as an ex-Catholic, is how hate-mongering their religion is. It's not like the gay-bashing and politics are an outgrowth of religion- they are their religion. Take me. I have almost never heard a priest talking about homosexuality in church. I never heard a Catholic priest even condemning until I was almost 17. They were too busy talking about Jesus. These people though- their kids first find out what abortion and homosexuality are from church. Last year I started a thread about something I heard in a homily while I happened to be at a Catholic mass. I can't be arsed to look up the thread right now so I'll just recount it. The priest was speaking about homosexuality. He wasn't railing hatefully, but it was clear that he was condemning it as wrong. He asked "What if everyone in the world decided to become homosexual and the human race just died out?". I was certainly amused by the irony of someone who'd taken a vow of celibacy warning of the dangers of people who don't reproduce. Even taking into account the fact that homosexuals can and do have children. Hell they don't even have to have sex. I wanted to stand up and ask, in the same "groovin' on my own words" voice he'd used "What if everyone in the world decided to join the Catholic clergy and take a vow of celibacy and the human race just died out?".
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

29th September 2007, 11:42 PM	#29
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,351	Originally Posted by -Fran- http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/atheists.asp Snopes has an article up on this one. Apparently it's a hoax of some sorts, but Snopes still say about it, that judging from the many mails they have gotten with the same sentiment, it still reflects the genuine opinion of many people. Interesting. After this thread was posted back in February, I actually signed up so I could read back letters. I finally got around to sending one via e-mail, but I guess it was after Ms. Shannon's hoax had been exposed. Also interesting, if the letters printed/posted were representative, I'd say the snopes conclusion is a bit off base as most of the letter writers seemed to be supportive of religious tolerance and freedom... even for atheists.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

30th September 2007, 02:06 AM	#30
Henners Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 767	Originally Posted by plumjam Yikes.. pretty mean of her. That would never happen here in the UK. I can see why Americans can get p**d off with religion. Next time garrote the bch with the E string. What a sheltered upbringing you must have. I have just listened to a fundie nutcase extolling the virtues of the Old Testament (his capitals, not mine) on BBC Radio 4 (paid for, in part, by me and, presumably, you) and telling me that evolution is random chance and Intelligent Design is real. The beeb didn't broadcast a disclaimer, either. So I'm assuming that it's official.
Henners Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 767