First Post, Couple Questions

[suds101]

First off, after reading this forum non-stop for the past week or so, I am in constant awe of most your insights and knowledge of pretty much anything conspiracy. Mark Roberts, I really believe that you are a hero. I am freshman in college and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of kids my age who are far more willing to trust our enemies rather than our government. I am very happy that my generation did not exist 60 years ago. Anyways, I am in constant debate with my brother and friends over 9/11 and something I am pretty new to, "The New World Order". I have noticed that as more and more 9/11 conspiracies get debunked over and over, more truthers are falling back on the NWO and NAU. So a few questions that I have...

1) Many truthers only respond to youtube videos, so are there any good films debunking the NWO?

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

3) I feel very compelled to make a film about a fake conspiracy, are there any good films which have poked fun of the idiocy of films like loose change or Zeitgest(which I still cant believe I watched)?

Thanks.

[~enigma~]

Originally Posted by suds101

First off, after reading this forum non-stop for the past week or so, I am in constant awe of most your insights and knowledge of pretty much anything conspiracy. Mark Roberts, I really believe that you are a hero. I am freshman in college and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of kids my age who are far more willing to trust our enemies rather than our government. I am very happy that my generation did not exist 60 years ago. Anyways, I am in constant debate with my brother and friends over 9/11 and something I am pretty new to, "The New World Order". I have noticed that as more and more 9/11 conspiracies get debunked over and over, more truthers are falling back on the NWO and NAU. So a few questions that I have...

1) Many truthers only respond to youtube videos, so are there any good films debunking the NWO?

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

3) I feel very compelled to make a film about a fake conspiracy, are there any good films which have poked fun of the idiocy of films like loose change or Zeitgest(which I still cant believe I watched)?

Thanks.

Check out Conspiracy Wars from Abby Scott and Ray Rivera...

[OldTigerCub]

screwloosechange.blogspot.com is a good place to start. A wealth of good information and links. Many of the best debunkers reside right here in the jref forum. Just look through the existing threads and you will find more factual information here than most other forums on the net.

[Unfit4Command]

Originally Posted by suds101

First off, after reading this forum non-stop for the past week or so, I am in constant awe of most your insights and knowledge of pretty much anything conspiracy. Mark Roberts, I really believe that you are a hero. I am freshman in college and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of kids my age who are far more willing to trust our enemies rather than our government. I am very happy that my generation did not exist 60 years ago. Anyways, I am in constant debate with my brother and friends over 9/11 and something I am pretty new to, "The New World Order". I have noticed that as more and more 9/11 conspiracies get debunked over and over, more truthers are falling back on the NWO and NAU. So a few questions that I have...

1) Many truthers only respond to youtube videos, so are there any good films debunking the NWO?

Debunking the "NWO" ummm...There are some good debunking videos out there, but I've never seen any that directly attack the NWO.

"Screw Loose Change" made by MarkyX who posts here is one of the most well known debunking video. There's also the LC guide by Gravy who posts here.

Then there's "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" made by The Doc who also posts here and an excellent flash website guide of 9/11 Mysteries.

Originally Posted by suds101

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

What does he think struck the Pentagon? There's ample evidence (some videos are linked in this site) that it was Flight 77 and no evidence that it was anything else.

Originally Posted by suds101

3) I feel very compelled to make a film about a fake conspiracy, are there any good films which have poked fun of the idiocy of films like loose change or Zeitgest(which I still cant believe I watched)?

Unsecured Coins made by Unsecured Coins who also posts here is a good video. There's also "Unfastened Coins" by Maddox.

It's better to just read through the links on this this site and this one. Both contain a lot of great information.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Unfit4Command

Debunking the "NWO" ummm...There are some good debunking videos out there, but I've never seen any that directly attack the NWO.

The problem with debunking the "NWO" is, there really aren't any specific claims directed to who, or what, the NWO is. It's really just a catch-all of everything the CTs rave on about - every little CT is just one part of the creation of the NWO, so to debunk the NWO, you'd need to debunk all the little parts - 9/11, FEAM Happy Camps, the Amero, the NAU, the NAFTA Super-Duper Highway, UN Troops Stationed in the US, Chemtrails, Vaccination Poisons, Bohemian Grove, and any of dozens of others. Each individual topic would need long debunking videos of their own - to do it all at once would be overwhelming.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Exactly... The way CTers talk about The NWO is that it is so secret, that there is no evidence! Physical or otherwise. Therefore they cover their tracks perfectly! What better evidence, than the complete LACK of evidence!

[~enigma~]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkeyZero

Exactly... The way CTers talk about The NWO is that it is so secret, that there is no evidence! Physical or otherwise. Therefore they cover their tracks perfectly! What better evidence, than the complete LACK of evidence!

The NWO as well as all the balogna the woo sling about the Masons, CFR, Bilderburg, etc. is idiotic. They claim they are all secret cabals bent on controlling the world only my question is if they are so secret why do the woo know so much about them?

[Viper Daimao]

Originally Posted by suds101

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

No he's not. Well it might show something plain, but not a plane.
There were many security cameras used by businesses around the pentagon, but you have to think logically. Why would any of them be focused on the wall of the building? If you've seen the security cam footage that actually shows the plane (kinda) you'll notice that is focused on the entrance for cars. The rest just were not in a position to capture the plane.

Then we have the speed of the film. Security cameras don't roll at 33 frames per second. It's more like 1 frame per second. The plane was traveling what? 500mph or something? It's unlikely any of the cameras would capture anything more than a blur if they're lucky, and most probably would miss it completely, even if they were covering the right path.

[T.A.M.]

Regarding the Pentagon Footage.

there was a FOIA request made to the FBI to release any footage that captured the plane crash, and the reply essentially stated that of all the footage captured, only 12-13 videos were in a position to capture the area in question, and of those only one video had captured any frames of the actual crash itself...and that was the one already released.

The videos from the gas station and the hotel that the truthers whined and cried for were released, and neither of them helped either side.

http://www.flight77.info/

BE warned, the above site is full blown truther Woo, but somewhere on that site, is a link to the FOIA Request I mentioned above, and the reply he recieved.

TAM

Edit:

http://www.flight77.info/dec1/mcquredec05.jpg

That document, and the page that follows (also on the site I mentioned) indicate what I have explained above.

[Mangoose]

The two security videos show the plane, albeit very poorly. The one with the pillar blocking the plane only shows the tail clearly. But the other one shows the whole plane. The white blur is not the plane but a trail of smoke/dust behind it. Rather, above it you can see the tail (the same tail as in the other image) and in front of it you can see the rest of the plane up to the nose. It is hard to see if you are looking at the frame by itself. Instead take the frame and one before it into Photoshop, layer them, and then toggle the opacity level back and forth. The plane should then jump out at you.

[T.A.M.]

Mangoose:

if you are talking about the hotel footage, than you must have access to a higher resolution version than I have seen. All I can make out is a dark object, no detail, followed by a trail of smoke. The object itself is nearly entirely obstructed from view, and what you can see, from the videos I have watched, is a blurry object with out definite shape.

TAM

[Quad4_72]

As far as the NWO goes, it is pure fantasy so it can be rather difficult to debunk. You cannot address specific issues like you can on 9/11 because the event actually happened and from their is where twoofers developed their fantasies about that. With the NWO, it is strictly in their heads and a scapegoat for them to blame everything on. Just ask your friends for one shred of proof that there is a New World Order. They will come back to you empty handed or with something completely absurd.

[Mangoose]

T.A.M. I'm not talking about any hotel footage (the only one there is, the Doubletree footage, doesn't show any plane but shows the fireball and plume) but the security footage. There were two security videos. In one "the object is nearly entirely obstructed from view" by a pillar and it is "followed by a trail of smoke". I'm talking about the other one.

[T.A.M.]

Mangoose:

ok...cool. Yah, that footage is the same footage the FBI agent says was released, and is the only video they have, according to her, that shows any image what so ever of the plane prior to or during impact.

TAM

[Unsecured Coins]

Originally Posted by Unfit4Command

Unsecured Coins made by Unsecured Coins who also posts here is a good video.

you ***** liar!!!

[bsw2009]

suds welcome...

try this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

[OldTigerCub]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkeyZero

Exactly... The way CTers talk about The NWO is that it is so secret, that there is no evidence! Physical or otherwise. Therefore they cover their tracks perfectly! What better evidence, than the complete LACK of evidence!

suds101,
I was thinking about the "NWO debunking" question and it occurred to me that the best way to debunk the NWO is to join the NWO (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and all that).
All you need is an evil laugh (Muahhhhaahahahah...ok, fairly lame but my best try), a little understanding of what makes kooks paranoid (hanging around the jref forum is an excellent place to learn), and an NWO Kitty shirt (see the thread "NWO Kitty is a sellout")

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...30&postcount=1

If you can't convince your brother or friends, you can at least have some fun poking fun at something that doesn't really exist. At the very least, you'll get a good chuckle from some of the comic stips in that thread.

(ok....so that was a shameless plug for NWO Kitty... )

[T.A.M.]

yes suds, welcome to the forum btw.

TAM

[TheRedWorm]

[gumboot]

Originally Posted by suds101

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

The short answer is there isn't any. Security footage is generally recorded (if it's recorded at all) at about 1 frame per second. The chance of capturing an object travelling at 500MPH is very small. Even if you do catch it, it will be a big blur.

Personally I would be highly suspicious of any alleged security footage from the Pentagon which clearly showed an airliner.

-Gumboot

[leftysergeant]

The fact that the released video from the parking entrance is further confusing because it is all shot through a fish-eye lens that totally change the shape of objects at any distance from the lens. I see an airliner, if I allow for thge warped perspective. Hard-core twoofers cannot, for some reason, be that flexible when presented with evidence that answers all the questions.

So why do they buy into theories which leave questions unanswered?

Has the price of weed gone really low lately?

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by suds101

1) Many truthers only respond to youtube videos, so are there any good films debunking the NWO?

I'm sorry, the NWO had youTube remove them and then sent black helicopters to round up those debunking their existance.

Quote:

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

Well I wouldn't really call the lawn a plain, I suppost it's sort of flat, but not really big enough, and it certainly wasn't being rained on, though then again it wasn't in Spain, so....

Quote:

3) I feel very compelled to make a film about a fake conspiracy, are there any good films which have poked fun of the idiocy of films like loose change or Zeitgest(which I still cant believe I watched)?

Have you tried Dark Moon or Something Funny Happened on the way to the Moon, they are real side splitters about fake conspiracies.

Quote:

Thanks.

You're welcome

[CptColumbo]

Originally Posted by suds101

First off, after reading this forum non-stop for the past week or so, I am in constant awe of most your insights and knowledge of pretty much anything conspiracy. Mark Roberts, I really believe that you are a hero. I am freshman in college and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of kids my age who are far more willing to trust our enemies rather than our government. I am very happy that my generation did not exist 60 years ago. Anyways, I am in constant debate with my brother and friends over 9/11 and something I am pretty new to, "The New World Order". I have noticed that as more and more 9/11 conspiracies get debunked over and over, more truthers are falling back on the NWO and NAU. So a few questions that I have...

1) Many truthers only respond to youtube videos, so are there any good films debunking the NWO?

2) My brother always asks, "Why wasn't all the Pentagon footage released which could clearly show a plain". Is he even right?

3) I feel very compelled to make a film about a fake conspiracy, are there any good films which have poked fun of the idiocy of films like loose change or Zeitgest(which I still cant believe I watched)?

Thanks.

Welcome suds101.

Unfortunately, many videos that explain what happened on 9/11 are boring, because they deal with science. Engineering and the other disciplines necessary to explain the events of 9/11/01 are not very interesting to the average member of the public.

National Geographics "Inside 9/11" was interesting from the perspective of the people involved in the plot.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Ok. I'm waiting to hear what the second post questions will contain.