Harry Potter: Book (and movie) 1

Tony · 7th September 2003, 10:40 AM

Why is the first book and movie of Harry Potter entitled, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", in America. But it is entitled "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" in England?

ceptimus · 7th September 2003, 01:42 PM

'Changing the title is something big and important that [the publishers] can do to justify their salaries, and it does not require reading the book, so that's why they like it so much.' - An embattled author, reported by Richard Dawkins.

'More generally, may I suggest that authors of the world unite and assert the right to name their own books.' - Richard Dawkins, "A DEVIL'S CHAPLAIN"

Kilted_Canuck · 7th September 2003, 02:50 PM

As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such.

Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html

hgc · 9th September 2003, 06:25 AM

The American publisher, Scholastic, didn't think American children would understand the word "Philosopher" in this context. The problem is there really is such a thing (in historical mythology) as a philosopher's stone. It's an 'element' used by an alchemist to change other materials into gold. Oh gee, that's what it is in the book too! Incredible stupidity to change it to some nonsense term.

Hexxenhammer · 9th September 2003, 06:58 AM

This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English.

hgc · 9th September 2003, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English.

I also have English versions of the books that I picked up in Europe, but I think it makes less difference as the series goes on. I have heard (not confirmed) that after Scholastic realized that they had an eternal classic on their hands, they did less translation into American. I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books.

Thanz · 9th September 2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hgc
I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books.

Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found.......

hgc · 9th September 2003, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thanz

Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found.......

Doh! Guess I didn't want to know that badly.

It seems there is some reduction of changes from book to book.

The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting.

Hexxenhammer · 9th September 2003, 02:19 PM

I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK.

Ove · 9th September 2003, 11:21 PM

Quote:

The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting.

Brilliant idea. You can buy the books via Amazon.UK if you wan't to be sure to get the original

My daughter (15) has read all the books in English we bought the last one in UK this summer and remember she is Danish.

Segnosaur · 10th September 2003, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK.

I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.)

Hexxenhammer · 10th September 2003, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur

I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.)

Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out.

Segnosaur · 10th September 2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer

Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out.

Try: http://www.amazon.ca or http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/Default.asp

I have no idea how good their service is to the US, or whether if you order from amazon.ca, whether they would ship the US or Canadian version town to you.

RonSceptic · 18th September 2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck
As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such.

Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html

An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character?

According to the link the Uk version has....

…three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… …

Which is changed in the US version to.....

..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became…

Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text?

Do they do this with other books? Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about?

Halbert · 18th September 2003, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonSceptic
Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about?

As an aside: When I originally read them (at around 8-10 years old) I thought merry and pippin were female hobbits.

Chaos · 18th September 2003, 11:33 AM

@Halbert:
Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings.

Tricky · 18th September 2003, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos
@Halbert:
Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings.

"Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither.

RonSceptic · 19th September 2003, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

"Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither.

And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'. I am beginning to view this book in a new light!

Chaos · 19th September 2003, 08:24 AM

Quote:

And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'.

In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule.

Silicon · 22nd September 2003, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonSceptic

An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character?

According to the link the Uk version has....

…three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… …

Which is changed in the US version to.....

..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became…

Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text?

No.

Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student.

When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed.

So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character.

richardm · 23rd September 2003, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silicon

No.

Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student.

When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed.

So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character.

Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended.

Silicon · 23rd September 2003, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm

Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended.

If you re-read the chapter, you'd see that there ARE times when Harry fades in and out, like you said.

But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period.

richardm · 24th September 2003, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silicon

But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period.

Well, unless my comprehension is way off - not in my copy. Well, not necessarily.

We have Harry being sorted, and all the excitement of him going to the Gryffindor table.

Quote:

"And now there were only three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became a Ravenclaw and then it was Ron's turn

(Ron, of course, being Weasley). Blaise Zabini is last.

So I still think that they could have let us assume that Dean Thomas was sorted while Harry was having his hand shaken. I guess it's one of two things: either kids didn't realise that we might have glossed over some people and wrote letters to the publishers pointing out the error until the publishers got fed up and put him in, or [PC Conspiracy] the publishers felt that Hogwarts was too white and middle-class and added in the description of the Tall, Black boy. [/PC Conspiracy]

Silicon · 25th September 2003, 10:23 PM

No PC conspiracy.

JK Rowling would have been the only one with data on that, and the only one who would have known to change it. When the first book came out, SHE was the only one to know their ages. It was her call.

If they wanted to add a Tall Black boy, they could have added him anywhere. He was already in the book. She added him in the sorting ceremony for a reason.

The way I read it, there are no students sorted between Potter, Harry and Thomas, Dean. That "And now" directly follows the action after Harry's sorting. If you know Rowling's writing style, she's very particular about how she carries moments for Harry. If Harry was spacing out and not listening, or if time was being compressed, the "And now" would instead be someting like "Soon, there were only 3 left to sort" or "Harry soon became aware that there were only 3 students left to sort". Rowling very distinctly is not doing that here.

There are plenty of other characters of color in the Harry Potter books, including the first one (Angelina Johnson, Lee Jordan). Dean Thomas wasn't "added".

Anyone who thinks Hogwarts is too white or too middle class should look a little deeper into the themes. In fact, no school in the world is as racially mixed as Hogwarts. What other school in the real world accepts Mudbloods? What other school has a half-giant as a teacher? What other school employs a Centaur, a ghost, a dwarf? I think you'll find the real world hard-pressed to meet the standards of Racial and species equality of Hogwarts!

The Weasleys are NOT middle class. The Dursleys are the very symbol of middle-class, and all that's wrong with it. The Malfoys are the very picture of the evil that all the rich people have in their blood!

Anyone looking to PC up Harry Potter would have a very very hard time looking for something to change. It's the very picture of PC to start with! You're saying that they had to pc it up MORE by adding Dean Thomas to a book he was already in?!!?

ZeeGerman · 26th September 2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos

In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule.

I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies...

Zee

Chaos · 26th September 2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman

I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies...

Zee

The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo".

ZeeGerman · 28th September 2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos

The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo".

I never used the subtitles. But I checked my DivX rip of LOTR II and you are right. Sam does say "Mister Frodo" in the Movie.
Seems that I mixed the movie and the books which I reread after LOTR I.

Cheers,

Zee

7th September 2003, 10:40 AM	#1
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,753	Harry Potter: Book (and movie) 1 Why is the first book and movie of Harry Potter entitled, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", in America. But it is entitled "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" in England?
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

7th September 2003, 01:42 PM	#2
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316	'Changing the title is something big and important that [the publishers] can do to justify their salaries, and it does not require reading the book, so that's why they like it so much.' - An embattled author, reported by Richard Dawkins. 'More generally, may I suggest that authors of the world unite and assert the right to name their own books.' - Richard Dawkins, "A DEVIL'S CHAPLAIN"
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316	__________________

9th September 2003, 06:58 AM	#5
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

9th September 2003, 11:28 AM	#7
Thanz Fuzzy Thinker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centre of the Universe Posts: 3,850	Quote: Originally posted by hgc I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books. Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found.......
	__________________ "I am totally with Thanz on this one." -- Yahzi

9th September 2003, 02:19 PM	#9
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

7th September 2003, 02:50 PM	#3
Kilted_Canuck MaterialistPatriotic AgnosticSocialistNaieve Saskatchewanian RadicalCanuckistani Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Manitoba, Canada Posts: 1,377	As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such. Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html

9th September 2003, 06:25 AM	#4
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	The American publisher, Scholastic, didn't think American children would understand the word "Philosopher" in this context. The problem is there really is such a thing (in historical mythology) as a philosopher's stone. It's an 'element' used by an alchemist to change other materials into gold. Oh gee, that's what it is in the book too! Incredible stupidity to change it to some nonsense term.

9th September 2003, 09:35 AM	#6
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	Quote: Originally posted by Hexxenhammer This is why I buy the English versions of the books. It makes them so much more....English. I also have English versions of the books that I picked up in Europe, but I think it makes less difference as the series goes on. I have heard (not confirmed) that after Scholastic realized that they had an eternal classic on their hands, they did less translation into American. I would like to see a list like the one linked above for rest of the books.

9th September 2003, 11:47 AM	#8
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	Quote: Originally posted by Thanz Delve deeper into into the website linked above. What you seek may yet still be found....... Doh! Guess I didn't want to know that badly. It seems there is some reduction of changes from book to book. The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting.

9th September 2003, 11:21 PM	#10
Ove Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,884	Quote: The point is for me, I would at least want my children to read the original because they could learn something about language and how it's different from place to place. So what if they have to find out what jumpers, trainers and windscreens are? That process is part of the learning that makes reading books so valuable and interesting. Brilliant idea. You can buy the books via Amazon.UK if you wan't to be sure to get the original My daughter (15) has read all the books in English we bought the last one in UK this summer and remember she is Danish.
	__________________ I am sitting here, completely surrounded by NO BEER..... (Onslow)

10th September 2003, 09:39 AM	#11
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Quote: Originally posted by Hexxenhammer I've been wondering if they were making less changes as the series went on. I'm glad I'm ordering them from Amazon UK. I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

10th September 2003, 09:41 AM	#12
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by Segnosaur I believe Canada keeps the UK wording and book covers. Maybe you could order them from the great white north. (May be cheaper to ship from here.) Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

10th September 2003, 11:28 AM	#13
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Quote: Originally posted by Hexxenhammer Good idea. If you know any links to Canadian book retailers I would check them out. Try: http://www.amazon.ca or http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/Default.asp I have no idea how good their service is to the US, or whether if you order from amazon.ca, whether they would ship the US or Canadian version town to you.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

18th September 2003, 05:19 AM	#14
RonSceptic Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 514	Quote: Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck As I remember it, the American publisher made some changes to the book, to 'Americanise it'. The title was changed because they didn't think that most american children could read the world "Philosopher", due to syllables and such. Here's a website that documents all the changes between American and British/Canadian: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/differences-ss.html An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character? According to the link the Uk version has.... …three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… … Which is changed in the US version to..... ..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became… Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text? Do they do this with other books? Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about?
RonSceptic Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 514	__________________ "HOMEOPATHY IS IMPOSSIBLE" - Conclusion of the BBC Horizon Program 26/11/02 on failing $1million JREF Challenge.

18th September 2003, 10:17 AM	#15
Halbert Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 90	Quote: Originally posted by RonSceptic Are there now a few PC hobbits in Lord of the Rings we should know about? As an aside: When I originally read them (at around 8-10 years old) I thought merry and pippin were female hobbits.
Halbert Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 90

18th September 2003, 11:33 AM	#16
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,778	@Halbert: Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings.

18th September 2003, 02:41 PM	#17
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,359	Quote: Originally posted by Chaos @Halbert: Now that you mention it...I read it at 13, and I thought Pippin sounded a lot like Pippi Longstockings. "Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither.

19th September 2003, 01:26 AM	#18
RonSceptic Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 514	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky "Merry" ain't zackly the most manly name neither. And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'. I am beginning to view this book in a new light!
RonSceptic Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 514	__________________ "HOMEOPATHY IS IMPOSSIBLE" - Conclusion of the BBC Horizon Program 26/11/02 on failing $1million JREF Challenge.

19th September 2003, 08:24 AM	#19
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,778	Quote: And Sam is always referring to Frodo as 'master'. In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

22nd September 2003, 10:14 PM	#20
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Quote: Originally posted by RonSceptic An interesting link. I can understand ( though I do not condone) changing a few words here and there to aid comprehension, but introducting a new character? According to the link the Uk version has.... …three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became… … Which is changed in the US version to..... ..three people left to be sorted. "Thomas, Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor table. "Turpin, Lisa" became… Doesn't this undermine the basic integrity of the text? No. Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student. When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed. So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character.
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

23rd September 2003, 07:03 AM	#21
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by Silicon No. Dean Thomas was always a character (he has very important things to do in the upcoming books). But his age never was important, so he was just another student. When his age DID become important in the later books, it was noticed that he was the same age as Harry. So it was realized that he SHOULD have been in the same sorting hat ceremony, and was missed. So that was fixed when the American book was released. Dean Thomas was NOT added to the American books in order to PC it up. He was ALWAYS an important character. Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

23rd September 2003, 07:33 AM	#22
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Quote: Originally posted by richardm Yet it never occurred to me that the named children were the only ones being sorted. If I had been pressed, I'd have assumed that Harry (and thus, we) were only tuning in to the occasional person. Pretty small intake that year, considering that the classes seem to be well attended. If you re-read the chapter, you'd see that there ARE times when Harry fades in and out, like you said. But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period.
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

24th September 2003, 06:02 AM	#23
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by Silicon But the children are sorted Alphabetically, and Thomas, Dean would fall into a lucid period. Well, unless my comprehension is way off - not in my copy. Well, not necessarily. We have Harry being sorted, and all the excitement of him going to the Gryffindor table. Quote: "And now there were only three people left to be sorted. 'Turpin, Lisa' became a Ravenclaw and then it was Ron's turn (Ron, of course, being Weasley). Blaise Zabini is last. So I still think that they could have let us assume that Dean Thomas was sorted while Harry was having his hand shaken. I guess it's one of two things: either kids didn't realise that we might have glossed over some people and wrote letters to the publishers pointing out the error until the publishers got fed up and put him in, or [PC Conspiracy] the publishers felt that Hogwarts was too white and middle-class and added in the description of the Tall, Black boy. [/PC Conspiracy]
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

25th September 2003, 10:23 PM	#24
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	No PC conspiracy. JK Rowling would have been the only one with data on that, and the only one who would have known to change it. When the first book came out, SHE was the only one to know their ages. It was her call. If they wanted to add a Tall Black boy, they could have added him anywhere. He was already in the book. She added him in the sorting ceremony for a reason. The way I read it, there are no students sorted between Potter, Harry and Thomas, Dean. That "And now" directly follows the action after Harry's sorting. If you know Rowling's writing style, she's very particular about how she carries moments for Harry. If Harry was spacing out and not listening, or if time was being compressed, the "And now" would instead be someting like "Soon, there were only 3 left to sort" or "Harry soon became aware that there were only 3 students left to sort". Rowling very distinctly is not doing that here. There are plenty of other characters of color in the Harry Potter books, including the first one (Angelina Johnson, Lee Jordan). Dean Thomas wasn't "added". Anyone who thinks Hogwarts is too white or too middle class should look a little deeper into the themes. In fact, no school in the world is as racially mixed as Hogwarts. What other school in the real world accepts Mudbloods? What other school has a half-giant as a teacher? What other school employs a Centaur, a ghost, a dwarf? I think you'll find the real world hard-pressed to meet the standards of Racial and species equality of Hogwarts! The Weasleys are NOT middle class. The Dursleys are the very symbol of middle-class, and all that's wrong with it. The Malfoys are the very picture of the evil that all the rich people have in their blood! Anyone looking to PC up Harry Potter would have a very very hard time looking for something to change. It's the very picture of PC to start with! You're saying that they had to pc it up MORE by adding Dean Thomas to a book he was already in?!!?
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

26th September 2003, 10:49 AM	#25
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Chaos In the movies, he says "Mr. Frodo". Though, I used to think of him as something like cross between a butler and a pack mule. I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies... Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")

26th September 2003, 02:29 PM	#26
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,778	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman I clearly recall him using "Master Frodo" when adressing Frodo in the movies... Zee The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo".
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

28th September 2003, 12:32 PM	#27
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Chaos The English subtitles of my DVD version say "Mister Frodo". I never used the subtitles. But I checked my DivX rip of LOTR II and you are right. Sam does say "Mister Frodo" in the Movie. Seems that I mixed the movie and the books which I reread after LOTR I. Cheers, Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")