Monet painting vandalized

Complexity · 7th October 2007, 06:30 PM

Monet's painting, "Le Pont d'Argenteuil", was deliberately damaged this morning.

Some monsters broke into the Orsay Museum in Paris and punched a four-inch hole in the middle of the painting. They have not yet been caught.

The painting should be reparable.

The Central Scrutinizer · 7th October 2007, 06:51 PM

Maybe they don't like sailboats?

Gravy · 7th October 2007, 06:59 PM

I'll bet it was someone who was kept waiting in a dentist's office one time too many.

Unalienable · 7th October 2007, 07:01 PM

DAMN THEM!!!

If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity.

I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein.

Gravy · 7th October 2007, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Unalienable

DAMN THEM!!!

If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity.

I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein.

Yes, putting a hole in a painting is truly a crime against humanity.

Complexity · 7th October 2007, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Unalienable

DAMN THEM!!!

If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity.

I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein.

I agree.

I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this.

Monet is my favorite painter. I've spent many hours in front of his paintings at the Art Institute of Chicago.

Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican.

Gravy · 7th October 2007, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this.

I'm going to assume that you're exaggerating. The alternative just makes me sad.

Complexity · 7th October 2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

I'm going to assume that you're exaggerating. The alternative just makes me sad.

At the moment, I'm not exaggerating.

Put in the position of actually confronting him, I'd probably just try to knock him out.

But, if they catch him, I hope he is haunted the rest of his life by people who will make sure that all prospective employers, landlords, and others that might interact with him know what he did.

I hope he suffers.

shuize · 7th October 2007, 08:08 PM

This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan.

I hope they all rot in hell.

lionking · 7th October 2007, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Yes, putting a hole in a painting is truly a crime against humanity.

Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece.

lionking · 7th October 2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece.

Precisely the type of monument I was thinking of.

lionking · 7th October 2007, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by shuize

This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan.

I hope they all rot in hell.

Precisely the type of monument I was thinking of

Unalienable · 7th October 2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

I agree.

I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this.

Boy and I thought I was strident.

Originally Posted by Complexity

Monet is my favorite painter.

Mine too, together with Picasso.

I used to have a reproduction of one of his works on my wall and after years of looking at it I still saw new things. With impressionism, sometimes you don't perceive the real genius until you catch it "out of the corner of your eye" in just the right way, and that rarely happens with a cursory examination. A great work of art is not something just to look at briefly and comment "oh, how pretty" ... you have to really hang out with it like it's a good friend, and slowly, you start to know it.

Le Pont d'Argenteuil is one such painting. I hope they don't decide to prevent people from looking at it directly any more like they did with the Mona Lisa. (From what I hear, the Louvre now only lets people see a mirror reflection of the Mona Lisa due to the random acts of a few madmen.)

Gravy · 7th October 2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece.

Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art.

Complexity · 7th October 2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art.

Perspective?

I value that painting over the vandal's life. He forfeited everything when he deliberately damaged it.

That creature did not do humanity a favor.

I'm furious. Not at you, Gravy - just furious.

I remember when the Taliban destroyed those statues. Everyone involved in that destruction deserves to die.

I feel the same way about people who deliberately pets, children, and other people.

Mid · 8th October 2007, 04:01 AM

To add a bit more details there was apparently more than 1 person involved, and probably quite a bit of alcohol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7033018.stm

Quote:

"We know there were four or five people, likely four boys and a girl, who entered around midnight to 0100, broke a door that was, perhaps, fragile."

lionking · 8th October 2007, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art.

Gee that's a long bow gravy. It's a bit like destroying the village in order to save it.

fuelair · 8th October 2007, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by shuize

This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan.

I hope they all rot in hell.

Definitely - though I felt that way about them even before that particular desecration.

Zep · 8th October 2007, 05:47 AM

The point is that there's only one such piece of art like that. And the Buddhist statues as well. They cannot ever be replaced as they were before they were damaged or destroyed.

It's like the WTC - you could rebuild the towers precisely as they were, bolt for bolt, but they would never be the same as the originals. Everyone would know that.

And so you can repair this Monet. But now it is a repaired Monet, not the whole original.

fuelair · 8th October 2007, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Perspective?

I value that painting over the vandal's life. He forfeited everything when he deliberately damaged it.

That creature did not do humanity a favor.

I'm furious. Not at you, Gravy - just furious.

I remember when the Taliban destroyed those statues. Everyone involved in that destruction deserves to die.

I feel the same way about people who deliberately pets, children, and other people.

I'm pretty sure you left out a word in that last line - and I am just about certain we agree there. There are useless lifeforms out there that just work better as fertilizer.

tkingdoll · 8th October 2007, 05:55 AM

What really amazed me is how easy it apparently was to break in and get access to the painting in the first place. They're lucky it wasn't stolen.

It's funny how the reaction to this story (not necessarily in here, although the tone of this thread is more violent than the other) is so different to the thread about the modern art which was accidentally thrown away by workmen.

Complexity · 8th October 2007, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

To add a bit more details there was apparently more than 1 person involved, and probably quite a bit of alcohol:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7033018.stm

The alcohol is never an excuse - except in a few odd situation, one chooses to drink and thereby accepts responsibility for whatever may occur while under the influence of alcohol.

Complexity · 8th October 2007, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

What really amazed me is how easy it apparently was to break and get access to the painting in the first place. They're lucky it wasn't stolen.

It's funny how the reaction to this story (not necessarily in here, although the tone of this thread is more violent than the other) is so different to the thread about the modern art which was accidentally thrown away by workmen.

I was thinking about that last night.

Works of art vary in their value. I don't mean market value, but in how I regard them.

Much of modern art I regard as trash done by a poseur, but some is breathtakingly beautiful and/or haunting, and deserves to be in museums a thousand years from now.

Tricky · 8th October 2007, 08:15 AM

I felt the same way when the German trash collectors threw away a sculpture, thinking it was construction rubbish. What a great loss to mankind.

KingMerv00 · 8th October 2007, 12:42 PM

I love Monet but no one should die over this.

shemp · 8th October 2007, 10:16 PM

Did you hear about the guy who vandalized a Jackson Pollock? Of course not; nobody noticed.

geni · 8th October 2007, 10:22 PM

I understand there is no shortage of copies. So damage to the original is unlikely to be of any significance at this stage.

The Atheist · 8th October 2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Unalienable

DAMN THEM!!!

If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity.

I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein.

Originally Posted by Complexity

I agree.

I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this.

Monet is my favorite painter. I've spent many hours in front of his paintings at the Art Institute of Chicago.

Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican.

Originally Posted by shuize

This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan.

I hope they all rot in hell.

Gosh, I hope you were all at least as disgusted when those US Marines raped and murdered the innocent Iraqis a while back.

Mid · 9th October 2007, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

The alcohol is never an excuse - except in a few odd situation, one chooses to drink and thereby accepts responsibility for whatever may occur while under the influence of alcohol.

I quite agree, I just pointed it out as it could well have contributed to the mindless stupidity this gang showed

Simon666 · 9th October 2007, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Zep

The point is that there's only one such piece of art like that. And the Buddhist statues as well. They cannot ever be replaced as they were before they were damaged or destroyed..

Who cares. If all the art in the world was destroyed, people would still live on and make new art. Besides, it exists on picture and replica's can be made easily. Only a select few would notice. Regarding the buddhist statue in Afghanistan, I don't think it's a loss as it existed in photographs and that's all people needed. You weren't seriously planning to go to on vacation to Talibanland weren't you?

Originally Posted by Zep

It's like the WTC - you could rebuild the towers precisely as they were, bolt for bolt, but they would never be the same as the originals. Everyone would know that.

That's just a matter of emotion.

Originally Posted by Zep

And so you can repair this Monet. But now it is a repaired Monet, not the whole original.

So what? At least now it even has some history added to it.

Darth Rotor · 9th October 2007, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican.

You and me both. I don't grok what motivates this sort of vandalism.

To the perp:

FFS, if you don't like the painting, leave the damned thing alone, and don't go to that room in the museum.

It is for situations like this that the unexpurgated term for "feces sack" was invented.

Suggested punishment: five years doing paint by number for his supper. No picture, no dinner.

DR

AgeGap · 9th October 2007, 01:07 PM

If art is seen as part of our cultural identity, these attacks are attacks on our culture. It would be wrong to destroy Native American or Maori art, so to destoy art that I believe is representative of my culture is also wrong. Another point of view is that I don't like people acting like twats in order to spoil others enjoyment.

The Central Scrutinizer · 9th October 2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican.

IIRC, didn't that guy turn out to be a nut? So he may not be totally to blame for his actions.

figarot · 9th October 2007, 01:19 PM

what's the Monet worth now? for that matter, what was it worth before? what does four inches of a Monet go for these days?

Tricky · 9th October 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Some monsters broke into the Orsay Museum in Paris and punched a four-inch hole in the middle of the painting. They have not yet been caught.

The painting should be reparable.

Now here's what I don't get. If there is a four-inch hole in it, but it is repairable, then that obviously means that there will be some touch up work. Maybe a lot.

So if a person who is not Monet touches up his art, then how is it still a Monet? And if the "retouching" required repainting the whole thing, would it still be a Monet? If the same guy who did the retouching painted the whole picture on another canvas, why wouldn't that be a Monet?

I agree that once a piece of art has been well reproduced, then the original is no big deal. It's like the old joke about George Washinton's axe being shown at a museum. "Yeah," the curator says, "it's had three new blades and five new handles, but it's George Washinton's original axe."

AgeGap · 10th October 2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

George Washinton's axe

BBC Radio 4 had a progamme about what is original. I think this was prompted by the Cutty Sark fire and restoration. It stated that a castle in Japan (IIRC Edo Castle) has been rebuilt many times but the Japanese regard it as the same, original castle. I wonder what proportion of work in our art galleries has not had some restoration.

ImaginalDisc · 10th October 2007, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Yes, putting a hole in a painting is truly a crime against humanity.

Yes. It is a crime that robs us of our cultural legacy.

LashL · 10th October 2007, 08:26 AM

In my view, it is certainly a stupid and senseless act of criminality but it hardly amounts to a crime against humanity.

Just my $0.02

fagin · 10th October 2007, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Perspective?

I value that painting over the vandal's life. He forfeited everything when he deliberately damaged it.

That creature did not do humanity a favor.

I'm furious. Not at you, Gravy - just furious.

I remember when the Taliban destroyed those statues. Everyone involved in that destruction deserves to die.

I feel the same way about people who deliberately pets, children, and other people.

I too get annoyed at people who deliberately pet children, but surely that's a different thread. Petting other people is quite ok by mutual consent.

Complexity · 10th October 2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by fagin

I too get annoyed at people who deliberately pet children, but surely that's a different thread. Petting other people is quite ok by mutual consent.

I forgot a word...

Something like 'hurt', I think.

7th October 2007, 06:30 PM	#1
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Monet painting vandalized Monet's painting, "Le Pont d'Argenteuil", was deliberately damaged this morning. Some monsters broke into the Orsay Museum in Paris and punched a four-inch hole in the middle of the painting. They have not yet been caught. The painting should be reparable.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

7th October 2007, 06:59 PM	#3
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	I'll bet it was someone who was kept waiting in a dentist's office one time too many.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

7th October 2007, 07:06 PM	#5
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by Unalienable DAMN THEM!!! If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity. I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein. Yes, putting a hole in a painting is truly a crime against humanity.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

7th October 2007, 07:12 PM	#6
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Unalienable DAMN THEM!!! If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity. I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein. I agree. I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this. Monet is my favorite painter. I've spent many hours in front of his paintings at the Art Institute of Chicago. Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

7th October 2007, 07:16 PM	#7
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by Complexity I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this. I'm going to assume that you're exaggerating. The alternative just makes me sad.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

7th October 2007, 07:01 PM	#4
Unalienable Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 296	DAMN THEM!!! If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity. I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein.

7th October 2007, 08:00 PM	#8
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Gravy I'm going to assume that you're exaggerating. The alternative just makes me sad. At the moment, I'm not exaggerating. Put in the position of actually confronting him, I'd probably just try to knock him out. But, if they catch him, I hope he is haunted the rest of his life by people who will make sure that all prospective employers, landlords, and others that might interact with him know what he did. I hope he suffers.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

7th October 2007, 08:08 PM	#9
shuize Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Japan Posts: 2,305	This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan. I hope they all rot in hell.

7th October 2007, 08:11 PM	#10
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,652	Originally Posted by Gravy Yes, putting a hole in a painting is truly a crime against humanity. Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece.

7th October 2007, 08:13 PM	#11
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,652	Originally Posted by lionking Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece. Precisely the type of monument I was thinking of.

7th October 2007, 08:14 PM	#12
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,652	Originally Posted by shuize This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan. I hope they all rot in hell. Precisely the type of monument I was thinking of

7th October 2007, 08:35 PM	#13
Unalienable Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 296	Originally Posted by Complexity I agree. I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this. Boy and I thought I was strident. Originally Posted by Complexity Monet is my favorite painter. Mine too, together with Picasso. I used to have a reproduction of one of his works on my wall and after years of looking at it I still saw new things. With impressionism, sometimes you don't perceive the real genius until you catch it "out of the corner of your eye" in just the right way, and that rarely happens with a cursory examination. A great work of art is not something just to look at briefly and comment "oh, how pretty" ... you have to really hang out with it like it's a good friend, and slowly, you start to know it. Le Pont d'Argenteuil is one such painting. I hope they don't decide to prevent people from looking at it directly any more like they did with the Mona Lisa. (From what I hear, the Louvre now only lets people see a mirror reflection of the Mona Lisa due to the random acts of a few madmen.)

7th October 2007, 08:37 PM	#14
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by lionking Well I think it is. I'm not saying that corporal or capital punishment is in order, but surely there are works of art and monuments which, if damaged or destroyed do diminish society as a whole, and that to me can be called a "crime against humanity". I had the pleasure at seeing this painting in the Orsay earlier this year and it is a masterpiece. Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

7th October 2007, 08:53 PM	#15
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Gravy Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art. Perspective? I value that painting over the vandal's life. He forfeited everything when he deliberately damaged it. That creature did not do humanity a favor. I'm furious. Not at you, Gravy - just furious. I remember when the Taliban destroyed those statues. Everyone involved in that destruction deserves to die. I feel the same way about people who deliberately pets, children, and other people.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

8th October 2007, 04:01 AM	#16
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805	To add a bit more details there was apparently more than 1 person involved, and probably quite a bit of alcohol: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7033018.stm Quote: "We know there were four or five people, likely four boys and a girl, who entered around midnight to 0100, broke a door that was, perhaps, fragile."
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805

8th October 2007, 04:12 AM	#17
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,652	Originally Posted by Gravy Let's keep things in perspective. The painting is reparable. I don't condone vandalism, but it could be argued that a limited act of vandalism like this does humanity a favor by inducing outrage and reminding people how much, and why, they value art. Gee that's a long bow gravy. It's a bit like destroying the village in order to save it.

8th October 2007, 05:45 AM	#18
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,900	Originally Posted by shuize This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan. I hope they all rot in hell. Definitely - though I felt that way about them even before that particular desecration.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,900

8th October 2007, 05:47 AM	#19
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	The point is that there's only one such piece of art like that. And the Buddhist statues as well. They cannot ever be replaced as they were before they were damaged or destroyed. It's like the WTC - you *could* rebuild the towers precisely as they were, bolt for bolt, but they would never be the same as the originals. Everyone would know that. And so you can repair this Monet. But now it is a repaired Monet, not the whole original.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

8th October 2007, 05:48 AM	#20
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,900	Originally Posted by Complexity Perspective? I value that painting over the vandal's life. He forfeited everything when he deliberately damaged it. That creature did not do humanity a favor. I'm furious. Not at you, Gravy - just furious. I remember when the Taliban destroyed those statues. Everyone involved in that destruction deserves to die. I feel the same way about people who deliberately pets, children, and other people. I'm pretty sure you left out a word in that last line - and I am just about certain we agree there. There are useless lifeforms out there that just work better as fertilizer.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,900

8th October 2007, 05:55 AM	#21
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	What really amazed me is how easy it apparently was to break in and get access to the painting in the first place. They're lucky it wasn't stolen. It's funny how the reaction to this story (not necessarily in here, although the tone of this thread is more violent than the other) is so different to the thread about the modern art which was accidentally thrown away by workmen.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie Last edited by tkingdoll; 8th October 2007 at 07:54 AM.

8th October 2007, 07:48 AM	#22
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Mid To add a bit more details there was apparently more than 1 person involved, and probably quite a bit of alcohol: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7033018.stm The alcohol is never an excuse - except in a few odd situation, one chooses to drink and thereby accepts responsibility for whatever may occur while under the influence of alcohol.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

8th October 2007, 07:55 AM	#23
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by tkingdoll What really amazed me is how easy it apparently was to break and get access to the painting in the first place. They're lucky it wasn't stolen. It's funny how the reaction to this story (not necessarily in here, although the tone of this thread is more violent than the other) is so different to the thread about the modern art which was accidentally thrown away by workmen. I was thinking about that last night. Works of art vary in their value. I don't mean market value, but in how I regard them. Much of modern art I regard as trash done by a poseur, but some is breathtakingly beautiful and/or haunting, and deserves to be in museums a thousand years from now.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

8th October 2007, 08:15 AM	#24
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,345	I felt the same way when the German trash collectors threw away a sculpture, thinking it was construction rubbish. What a great loss to mankind.

8th October 2007, 12:42 PM	#25
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	I love Monet but no one should die over this.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

8th October 2007, 10:16 PM	#26
shemp Timothy, Timothy, where on earth did you go? Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: trapped in a cave-in with Joe Posts: 12,884	Did you hear about the guy who vandalized a Jackson Pollock? Of course not; nobody noticed.
	__________________ Church on Sunday, sleep and nod Tryin' to duck the wrath of God Preacher's fillin' us with fright Tryin' to tell us what he thinks is right He really got to be some kind of nut (I can't use it!) Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?

8th October 2007, 10:22 PM	#27
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,561	I understand there is no shortage of copies. So damage to the original is unlikely to be of any significance at this stage.

8th October 2007, 10:50 PM	#28
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by Unalienable DAMN THEM!!! If I was judge I'd sentence them to years of hard labor. This monster didn't just rob from a museum, they robbed from all of humanity. I'm sorry if that sounds strident but in my opinion that painting is worth more than the life of that maniac or anything they are bound to accomplish therein. Originally Posted by Complexity I agree. I'd happily put a four-inch hole through the chest of the bastard who did this. Monet is my favorite painter. I've spent many hours in front of his paintings at the Art Institute of Chicago. Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican. Originally Posted by shuize This reminds me of how I felt back before 9/11 when the Taliban blew up the 6th century Buddhist statutes in Bamyan. I hope they all rot in hell. Gosh, I hope you were all at least as disgusted when those US Marines raped and murdered the innocent Iraqis a while back.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

9th October 2007, 03:48 AM	#29
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805	Originally Posted by Complexity The alcohol is never an excuse - except in a few odd situation, one chooses to drink and thereby accepts responsibility for whatever may occur while under the influence of alcohol. I quite agree, I just pointed it out as it could well have contributed to the mindless stupidity this gang showed
Mid Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 805

9th October 2007, 05:48 AM	#30
Simon666 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Gates of hell Posts: 1,724	Originally Posted by Zep The point is that there's only one such piece of art like that. And the Buddhist statues as well. They cannot ever be replaced as they were before they were damaged or destroyed.. Who cares. If all the art in the world was destroyed, people would still live on and make new art. Besides, it exists on picture and replica's can be made easily. Only a select few would notice. Regarding the buddhist statue in Afghanistan, I don't think it's a loss as it existed in photographs and that's all people needed. You weren't seriously planning to go to on vacation to Talibanland weren't you? Originally Posted by Zep It's like the WTC - you *could* rebuild the towers precisely as they were, bolt for bolt, but they would never be the same as the originals. Everyone would know that. That's just a matter of emotion. Originally Posted by Zep And so you can repair this Monet. But now it is a repaired Monet, not the whole original. So what? At least now it even has some history added to it.

9th October 2007, 07:50 AM	#31
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,261	Originally Posted by Complexity Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican. You and me both. I don't grok what motivates this sort of vandalism. To the perp: FFS, if you don't like the painting, leave the damned thing alone, and don't go to that room in the museum. It is for situations like this that the unexpurgated term for "feces sack" was invented. Suggested punishment: five years doing paint by number for his supper. No picture, no dinner. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

9th October 2007, 01:07 PM	#32
AgeGap Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St.Helens, UK Posts: 2,386	If art is seen as part of our cultural identity, these attacks are attacks on our culture. It would be wrong to destroy Native American or Maori art, so to destoy art that I believe is representative of my culture is also wrong. Another point of view is that I don't like people acting like twats in order to spoil others enjoyment.

9th October 2007, 01:10 PM	#33
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,266	Originally Posted by Complexity Reminds me of how angry I was when a 'man' took a hammer to Michelangelo's Pieta in St. Peters in the Vatican. IIRC, didn't that guy turn out to be a nut? So he may not be totally to blame for his actions.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

9th October 2007, 01:19 PM	#34
figarot Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 394	what's the Monet worth now? for that matter, what was it worth before? what does four inches of a Monet go for these days?
figarot Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 394

9th October 2007, 04:35 PM	#35
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,345	Originally Posted by Complexity Some monsters broke into the Orsay Museum in Paris and punched a four-inch hole in the middle of the painting. They have not yet been caught. The painting should be reparable. Now here's what I don't get. If there is a four-inch hole in it, but it is repairable, then that obviously means that there will be some touch up work. Maybe a lot. So if a person who is not Monet touches up his art, then how is it still a Monet? And if the "retouching" required repainting the whole thing, would it still be a Monet? If the same guy who did the retouching painted the whole picture on another canvas, why wouldn't that be a Monet? I agree that once a piece of art has been well reproduced, then the original is no big deal. It's like the old joke about George Washinton's axe being shown at a museum. "Yeah," the curator says, "it's had three new blades and five new handles, but it's George Washinton's original axe."

10th October 2007, 01:34 AM	#36
AgeGap Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St.Helens, UK Posts: 2,386	Quote: George Washinton's axe BBC Radio 4 had a progamme about what is original. I think this was prompted by the Cutty Sark fire and restoration. It stated that a castle in Japan (IIRC Edo Castle) has been rebuilt many times but the Japanese regard it as the same, original castle. I wonder what proportion of work in our art galleries has not had some restoration.