|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
8th October 2007, 09:40 PM | #1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
|
Can we have a top ten canards list?
because hucksters usually say the same thing when chickening out of the challenge could we have a list somewhere of what those normal responses are, so when someone starts backing up we already have answers for their bull?
for instance: 1. Randi doesnt have the million 2. JREF is a cult 3. The tests are rigged 4. Im not in it for the money etc...and good answers to them |
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
9th October 2007, 01:36 AM | #2 |
Resident Viking Autist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,925
|
A1. yes he does, you can ask for evidence, for which randi will provide you with a note from the bank with all the necessary information to validate that he has the account, it is his account, it has more than one million usd on it, and it is his to give away. if you dont' trust said evidence then not only don't you trust randi, you don't trust the bank, and by extension the entire american bank system, and the entire economic system of the US at large.
A2. no it isn't, many people who are a part of JREF disagree with some of what randi says, and some of his atitude(if you do yourself, do state what you disagree with, to make a point) A3. The tests are created by claimant and randi together, so both parties will create the test, and agree it is a fair test before it starts. If the parties can't agree to a fair test, then no test will be performed. A4. Wouldn't you spend 1 hour of your life to donate one million dollars to starving children? what kind of person are you? Feel free to rephrase |
__________________
He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson |
|
9th October 2007, 01:39 AM | #3 |
Resident Viking Autist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,925
|
5. If it was real someone would have won it by now
A5, look at answer 1&3, and realize that if you pass the test, you can sue Randi for the million. And just passing the test alone is probably worth more than that million. 6. I'm a real scientist, i'm not doing this to win a Prize, that is childish and stupid. A6. Like the NOBEL prize? |
__________________
He pricked me with his prick that prick - NobbyNobbs Endearingly Obnoxious - Rebecca Watson |
|
9th October 2007, 03:45 AM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,774
|
I'm not sure this is a great answer. No-one does work to win a Nobel, it is an extra reward for work they would have done anyway. I would say something more like:
A6. Winning Randi's prize would bring fame and recognition to your work, as well as providing significant funding. If this isn't worth a few hours of your time, what is? |
9th October 2007, 03:50 AM | #5 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 1,512
|
7. I don´t have to prove anything to Randi or other skeptics, I know my powers are real.
A7/1: Since you make a living with________ (insert woo of your choice) anyway, wouldn´t it be cool to earn a million in a day compared to the couple of bucks you earn with it now? Wouldn´t winning the million be a perfect advertisement for your business? A7/2: If you can´t make a living with your powers now, wouldn´t it be cool if you win the million and can quit your burger flipping job and tell your boss what you always wanted to tell him? 8. My powers don´t work in the presence of skeptics. A8: If you are able to tell if skeptics are there as observers while you can´t see them, that alone would earn you the million. Disclaimer: I´m totally tired, so I´m not sure if any of the above makes sense, but I like the idea of this thread and therefore wanted to contribute. |
9th October 2007, 06:18 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 29,368
|
9. This weekend is a no go.
(Well, maybe you don't need to add that one.) |
9th October 2007, 05:47 PM | #7 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 90
|
10. Randi's not a scientist, he's a magician; so what right does he have to offer free money for an impressive demonstration?
|
9th October 2007, 06:23 PM | #8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,034
|
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
9th October 2007, 09:56 PM | #9 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 541
|
You all forgot to list the "Randi is godless/not spiritual, so he's an idiot and not worth consideration" line of argument. That's the one that makes me laugh the hardest.
|
__________________
ubi dubium ibi libertas. |
|
9th October 2007, 10:07 PM | #10 |
Scholar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
|
I wish I could think of one but I can’t, it’s too early. Think I’ll come back later though. Looks like it could be fun. |
10th October 2007, 02:32 AM | #11 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 28,092
|
12. I am psychic. But if I tell you what I can do someone else will get in first and win the prize with my idea.
13 I do not want any publicity. |
__________________
This signature is for rent. |
|
10th October 2007, 02:36 AM | #12 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
|
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
10th October 2007, 11:21 PM | #13 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 541
|
|
__________________
ubi dubium ibi libertas. |
|
11th October 2007, 04:52 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 161
|
After 13 posts, I thought it would be nice to have all suggestions so far in a single post. I started copy/paste work and tried to correct typos and get an homogeneous format. I also added my own comments. Now I feel I've just changed too much to say this is a quote, so I'll say it is a rewriting of previous posts in this same thread. Feel free to criticize my rewriting style.
If you are the original author of something I have rewritten and you feel I've changed your point, please do say so. 1. Randi doesn't have the million. A1. Yes, he does. You can ask for evidence, for which Randi will provide you with a note from the bank with all the necessary information to validate that he has the account, it is his account, it has more than one million USD on it, and it is his to give away. If you don't trust said evidence then not only don't you trust Randi, you don't trust the bank, and by extension the entire American bank system, and the entire economic system of the US at large.2. JREF is a cult. A2. No, it isn't. Many people who are a part of JREF disagree with some of what Randi says, and some of his attitude (if you do yourself, do state what you disagree with, to make a point).3. The tests are rigged. A3. The tests are created by claimant and Randi together, so both parties will create the test, and agree it is a fair test before it starts. If the parties can't agree to a fair test, then no test will be performed.4. I'm not in it for the money. A4.1. Wouldn't you spend 1 hour of your life to donate one million dollars to starving children? What kind of person are you?5. If it was real someone would have won it by now. A5.1. Look at answer 1&3, and realize that if you pass the test, you can sue Randi for the million. And just passing the test alone is probably worth more than that million.6. I'm a real scientist, I'm not doing this to win a Prize, that is childish and stupid. A6.1. Like the NOBEL prize?7. I don't have to prove anything to Randi or other skeptics, I know my powers are real. A7.1. Since you make a living with ________ (insert woo of your choice) anyway, wouldn't it be cool to earn a million in a day compared to the couple of bucks you earn with it now? Wouldn't winning the million be a perfect advertisement for your business?8. My powers don't work in the presence of skeptics. A8: If you are able to tell if skeptics are there as observers while you can't see them, that alone would earn you the million.9. This weekend is a no go. Jojonete remarks: I should probably have thrown this one out, but kept it for completeness. If anyone makes any further compilation, I suggest assigning number 9. to the the "<Unnumbered>" canard below (as of now, it is between 10. and 11.). That way, all other numbers remain unchanged so that people don't get confused about renumberings.10. Randi's not a scientist, he's a magician; so what right does he have to offer free money for an impressive demonstration? Jojonete suggests A10. What right do you have to forbid anyone to offer whatever he/she pleases for whatever demonstration he/she pleases?<Unnumbered>. Randi is godless/not spiritual, so he's an idiot and not worth consideration. 11. What would I do with a million pound?!! 12. I am psychic. But if I tell you what I can do someone else will get in first and win the prize with my idea. Jojonete suggests A12.1. So, instead of telling JREF, you are publicly advertising your services as a superpowered-person. That way no one can win the prize with your idea.13. I do not want any publicity. Jojonete suggests 13.1. and 13.2. to be the same as 12.1. and 12.2.14. I can't use my powers for personal gain. Doc Daneeka suggests changing the canard text to: |
11th October 2007, 05:18 AM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,774
|
11 and 14 are really just the same as 4.
|
11th October 2007, 06:04 AM | #16 |
Scholar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
|
Cuddles,
Stop nit-picking. 11 was mine. lol |
11th October 2007, 07:45 AM | #17 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
A variation of 13
13
One addition to this is the claim that by demonstrating they can (insert woo) they would be subject to being kidnapped and made to use (insert woo) for bad things or creating wealth for the people controling them. I've seen this used to explain not "proving RV" The other darker side of this is that Randi and the money is a "honey pot" used to attract real (insert woo), ID them and then 'THEY' will have them killed or put into a concentration camp. This is the evil government idea while the one above is an evil group/people. |
11th October 2007, 09:32 AM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sorth Dakonsin
Posts: 29,368
|
#9 was intended as a joke, but maybe it could be revised to the catch-all of "My powers aren't working today" or some such.
Or we could start a new list... 1. Daffy 2. Donald 3. Howard 4. Daisy 5. Bedard ... |
11th October 2007, 12:07 PM | #19 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,363
|
|
11th October 2007, 01:52 PM | #20 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,363
|
|
__________________
The truth, as always, is more complicated than that. |
|
11th October 2007, 03:55 PM | #21 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
|
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
11th October 2007, 06:20 PM | #22 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 88
|
Missed some recent classics:
15. Randi is not a magician. He has paranormal powers and knows it. He uses them to stop anyone from winning. 16. The tests are rigged (again). Randi has a tremendous media and church backing and can cover up any legitimate challenges. (Yes this was used) |
11th October 2007, 11:17 PM | #23 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 541
|
Most of these points amount to:
17) I can't hear you. Nyah Nyah Nyah. |
__________________
ubi dubium ibi libertas. |
|
12th October 2007, 05:22 PM | #24 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,801
|
Variation of #1: The prize isn't in cash, it's in bonds! You don't get cash, you get bonds! What if the companies go bankrupt, huh? You'll win worthless paper bonds!
|
12th October 2007, 11:49 PM | #25 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 541
|
|
__________________
ubi dubium ibi libertas. |
|
19th December 2007, 10:44 PM | #26 |
Satan's Helper
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 44,024
|
Well, I think that the funniest one is this one someone told me on a forum from another website
It went something like this: "I think that Randi has psychic powers and it is very clear that he's using them to make everyone else loose" Well get a load of that one, huh? |
22nd December 2007, 01:19 PM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 11,219
|
Calling every decline of a challenge a 'chickening out' has gotta be some new fallacy.
|
24th December 2007, 11:36 AM | #28 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 571
|
18) I am psychic enough to see I can't win.
19) Randi is an Anti-psychic, and when a psychic and an anti-psychic come in contact with each other it is the woohoo equivalent to matter and antimatter coming in contact with each other, and I don't wanna clean up the mess. |
__________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. Albert Einstein |
|
24th December 2007, 02:28 PM | #29 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,363
|
#-666: Randi is the AntiChrist.
(You know what song I'm thinking of, hellaeon?) |
24th December 2007, 02:32 PM | #30 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 28,092
|
13. I cannot count. I cannot even reason properly. I can only troll. But I still have powers.
|
__________________
This signature is for rent. |
|
24th December 2007, 02:41 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,363
|
Fixed it for you.
13. I CANOT CO UNT... I CANOT EVEN RAISIN PROPRELY... ORS PEL... I CAN ONLY TROo3LL!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT I STILL HAVE PWOERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
24th December 2007, 03:53 PM | #32 |
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 28,092
|
|
__________________
This signature is for rent. |
|
16th January 2008, 10:11 AM | #33 |
New Blood
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7
|
|
16th January 2008, 10:42 AM | #34 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,395
|
Say your ability is guessing Zener cards. Here is the protocol:
For each trial: You sit at a table with a tester who is an avowed believer in ESP. He shuffles the deck and deals the cards face down, one at a time and you guess each card, then he turns it over. Meanwhile, there is a skeptic or non-skeptic (randomly chosen) watching the test from a position where you cannot see them. Based on your good or bad results you determine whether the skeptic or the non-skeptic was watching. Pass 10 out of 10 trials and you have passed the preliminary test. IXP |
__________________
"When reason sleeps, monsters are produced" -- Goya, title of etching that is my avatar |
|
16th January 2008, 11:12 AM | #35 |
The Jester
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,763
|
New canard: "I was scheduled to take the challenge, but they were afraid that I would win, so they canceled the whole offer."
|
__________________
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker |
|
18th January 2008, 07:38 AM | #36 |
Supercalifragilisticskepticalidocious
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,613
|
20) My claim is a paranormal claim, and by definition is outside the realm of science. Your materailstic logic and science is not up to the task of testing my spiritual powers. Likewise, Randi and other scientists are too spiritually bankrupt to understand, let alone verify my abilities.
|
__________________
Silence nerd! Prepare for a moon spanking. |
|
19th January 2008, 07:19 AM | #37 |
Last of the Time Lords
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,890
|
You'd think that, even if there really wasn't any money in the 'jackpot', TRUE paranormal people would still try for it, if for no other reason, than bragging rights that they beat Randi.
That in itself, would be 'money in the bank', you'd think. |
__________________
"Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED |
|
19th January 2008, 07:25 AM | #38 |
Last of the Time Lords
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,890
|
Just had a thought...
Wonder how many people are going to come out of the woodwork, immediately after the Challenge is officially over with, and claim "I was *just* going to apply! See? They're AFRAID of my powers! HA!"
Or, if someone's going to claim that they predicted the Challenge would be canceled, and therefor they're entitled to the Prize... |
__________________
"Attention please..... a child has been lost in the Tunnel of Goats......" .......FATHER TED |
|
19th January 2008, 09:22 AM | #39 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,363
|
I nominate edge for the front line of El Coro di Burro:
(...)They are running scared. (...)Some one is lying. If it’s a time issue LMAO, then the Old man and Spectator have figured a way around that issue, so I feel that it’s JREF that’s running scared now…(...) |
20th January 2008, 10:16 AM | #40 |
red-shirted crewman
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,661
|
|
__________________
Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|