rendition case rejected

Disenchanted · 9th October 2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Court Rejects Alleged CIA Kidnap Victim

By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday terminated a lawsuit from a man who claims he was abducted and tortured by the CIA, effectively endorsing Bush administration arguments that state secrets would be revealed if the case were allowed to proceed.

Khaled el-Masri, 44, alleged that he was kidnapped by CIA agents in Europe and held in an Afghan prison for four months in a case of mistaken identity.

The administration has not publicly acknowledged that el-Masri was detained, and lower courts dismissed his suit after the administration asserted that state secrets would be revealed if the lawsuit was not blocked. The justices rejected his appeal without comment.

The case had been seen as a test of the administration's legal strategy to stop it and several other national security lawsuits by invoking the doctrine of state secrets. Another lawsuit over the administration's warrantless wiretapping program, also dismissed on state secrets grounds, still is pending before the justices.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

So I guess something labeled state secrets is more important than the Constitution and whether or not he and others have been tortured.

Beerina · 9th October 2007, 12:29 PM

This is not a criminal trial, but a civil one.

Yes, accidental and wrongful detaining is bad.

Yes, (claims of) government lying after the fact is bad.

Yes, the government using national security as a lie (it is claimed) to cover up its wrongdoing is bad.

No, the right to a civil lawsuit does not trump national security.

No, the courts have no way of determining if the government is telling the truth or not, without revealing said confidential information.

Don't like it? Talk to your Congressman at the next election.

Disenchanted · 9th October 2007, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

This is not a criminal trial, but a civil one.

Yes, accidental and wrongful detaining is bad.

Yes, (claims of) government lying after the fact is bad.

Yes, the government using national security as a lie (it is claimed) to cover up its wrongdoing is bad.

No, the right to a civil lawsuit does not trump national security.

No, the courts have no way of determining if the government is telling the truth or not, without revealing said confidential information.

Don't like it? Talk to your Congressman at the next election.

Any detaining without probable cause and/or a warrant is bad.

Any form of torture is bad.

There should be a penalty when the government violates someones right when they do something like this. A civil lawsuit could be some form of penalty.

The Constitution, which is suppose to represent peoples' rights should trump national security.

patrick767 · 9th October 2007, 02:14 PM

So what recourse do you have if the US government mistakently abducts you and ships you to another country for months of imprisonment and torture? Now even the US Supreme Court is saying "None". All the government has to do is play the "state secrets" card and you can do nothing about it.

This is outrageous. We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America?

By the way, the state secrets card was played just five times from 1953 (when the court ruling that set the precedent was made) to 1976. It was then used 59 times from 1977-2001. The Bush Administration has used it 39 times in six years. When documents from the 1953 case were finally made public fifty years later, it was found that the government was lying about "state secrets" in the first place. A plane crashed due to negligence. (source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4846280.story) Yet our courts let them wave the "state secret" flag whenever the hell they want.

Ian Osborne · 10th October 2007, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by patrick767

We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America?

Quite

Soapy Sam · 10th October 2007, 03:11 AM

Welcome to Realpolitik.

Southwind17 · 10th October 2007, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by patrick767

This is outrageous. We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America?

Maybe you should be terrified, but you're not really, are you. I wonder why that is?

9th October 2007, 11:07 AM	#1
Disenchanted Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 207	rendition case rejected Quote: Court Rejects Alleged CIA Kidnap Victim By MARK SHERMAN Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Tuesday terminated a lawsuit from a man who claims he was abducted and tortured by the CIA, effectively endorsing Bush administration arguments that state secrets would be revealed if the case were allowed to proceed. Khaled el-Masri, 44, alleged that he was kidnapped by CIA agents in Europe and held in an Afghan prison for four months in a case of mistaken identity. The administration has not publicly acknowledged that el-Masri was detained, and lower courts dismissed his suit after the administration asserted that state secrets would be revealed if the lawsuit was not blocked. The justices rejected his appeal without comment. The case had been seen as a test of the administration's legal strategy to stop it and several other national security lawsuits by invoking the doctrine of state secrets. Another lawsuit over the administration's warrantless wiretapping program, also dismissed on state secrets grounds, still is pending before the justices. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT So I guess something labeled state secrets is more important than the Constitution and whether or not he and others have been tortured.
Disenchanted Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 207

9th October 2007, 12:29 PM	#2
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	This is not a criminal trial, but a civil one. Yes, accidental and wrongful detaining is bad. Yes, (claims of) government lying after the fact is bad. Yes, the government using national security as a lie (it is claimed) to cover up its wrongdoing is bad. No, the right to a civil lawsuit does not trump national security. No, the courts have no way of determining if the government is telling the truth or not, without revealing said confidential information. Don't like it? Talk to your Congressman at the next election.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

9th October 2007, 01:54 PM	#3
Disenchanted Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 207	Originally Posted by Beerina This is not a criminal trial, but a civil one. Yes, accidental and wrongful detaining is bad. Yes, (claims of) government lying after the fact is bad. Yes, the government using national security as a lie (it is claimed) to cover up its wrongdoing is bad. No, the right to a civil lawsuit does not trump national security. No, the courts have no way of determining if the government is telling the truth or not, without revealing said confidential information. Don't like it? Talk to your Congressman at the next election. Any detaining without probable cause and/or a warrant is bad. Any form of torture is bad. There should be a penalty when the government violates someones right when they do something like this. A civil lawsuit could be some form of penalty. The Constitution, which is suppose to represent peoples' rights should trump national security.
Disenchanted Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 207

9th October 2007, 02:14 PM	#4
patrick767 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 194	So what recourse do you have if the US government mistakently abducts you and ships you to another country for months of imprisonment and torture? Now even the US Supreme Court is saying "None". All the government has to do is play the "state secrets" card and you can do nothing about it. This is outrageous. We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America? By the way, the state secrets card was played just five times from 1953 (when the court ruling that set the precedent was made) to 1976. It was then used 59 times from 1977-2001. The Bush Administration has used it 39 times in six years. When documents from the 1953 case were finally made public fifty years later, it was found that the government was lying about "state secrets" in the first place. A plane crashed due to negligence. (source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4846280.story) Yet our courts let them wave the "state secret" flag whenever the hell they want.
patrick767 Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 194

10th October 2007, 02:57 AM	#5
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	Originally Posted by patrick767 We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America? Quite
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

10th October 2007, 03:11 AM	#6
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Welcome to Realpolitik.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

10th October 2007, 03:37 AM	#7
Southwind17 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Location: Location Posts: 4,461	Originally Posted by patrick767 This is outrageous. We should be terrified of what our government has become. What the hell has happened to America? Maybe you should be terrified, but you're not really, are you. I wonder why that is?
	__________________ The views expressed here do not necessarily represent the unanimous view of all parts of my mind "Always" and "never" are two words that you should always remember never to use. Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. Why is it that when I ask for a pair of hands a brain comes attached?