Dowsing, Randi Challange and Euro-water shortage...

headscratcher4 · 8th September 2003, 10:34 AM

From today's New York Times...you will need to register to see the full article. The Randi Challenge is mentioned, but not by name....

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/08/in...pe/08ITAL.html

Italy, Short of Dousing, Is Dowsing
By JASON HOROWITZ OME, Sept. 7

— Rivers became dusty canals and wells ran dry in Italy this summer when an unrelenting drought left the country thirsting and searching for water. But not everyone looked to the skies for salvation. The nation's dowsers — a network of mystics who say they possess the ability to sense underground streams where most see parched earth — were out in force. Dowsers said the summer's meager rainfall, which the weather service of the Italian Air Force said amounted to less than half of the national average for the period, resulted in many requests to find new, secret sources of water."Every cloud has a silver lining," said Maurizio Armanetti, a dowser based in Tuscany, adding that "water is mankind's greatest resource."

It is also a dowser's bread and butter.Toting forked sticks that resemble enormous wishbones, or dangling pendulums over pale, yellow plains, as if the earth were but a floating Ouija board, water diviners across the country sought untapped wells. Luigi Cantonati, who grows strawberries in the northern region of Trentino when not seeking springs, said that the drought had brought a burst of dowser business, and that farmers and small towns had requested his services about 80 percent more often than in recent years.

"For the first time that I can remember, the fountains stopped running," he said. He added that desperation for water tested the disbelief of even the country's most hard-core skeptics. "It's like that old saying, `There's no problem with not knowing how to swim, until the water touches your backside — that's when you wake up,' " he said.

"I think the skeptics are waking up."But many are still suspicious, charging that what dowsers see as their ancient gift is nothing but an old-fashioned gimmick.

Geologists, the mainstream's preferred source for finding buried water, dismiss the dowsers as charlatans with success rates well within the bounds of chance. Dowsers, who also search for oil and golf balls, counter by calling scientists jealous. They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed

specious_reasons · 8th September 2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed

Don't most dowsers claim 95+ percent success rates? Is the 80% an accurate number, or is that a standard agreed upon in the past?

Brown · 8th September 2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by specious_reasons
Don't most dowsers claim 95+ percent success rates? Is the 80% an accurate number, or is that a standard agreed upon in the past?

If you ask Mr. Randi, he'd probably say that most dowsers claim much higher success rates.

I don't know, however, what success standard is required to win the challenge. Perhaps it depends upon the kind of dowsing the dowser claims to be able to do. Certainly if a dowser claims a 100 percent success rate, he should have no trouble hitting an 80 percent standard.

Brown · 8th September 2003, 11:13 AM

My favorite quote from the article:

Quote:

Some specialists like Mr. Armanetti, a full-time dowser who says Italian oil companies and even the government have called on his services in the past, do not come cheap. He charges a baseline rate of 2,500 euros — about $2,700 — before he even considers searching for water.

He worried, however, that his market, made fertile by the drought, would be diluted with opportunists. "They need to be certified," he said.

I'm intrigued as to what tests Mr. Armanetti would recommend that would lead to his being certified, but his competitors not being certified.

headscratcher4 · 8th September 2003, 11:20 AM

It occurs that the JREF might want -- a'la Sylvia -- to specifically invite Senore Armanetti to apply for the Challenge, and to explicitly detail how he would prove/certify his abilities...also, one wonders how the various companies and Ministries Sr. Armanetti refers to lists payments to him...if I were a public auditor of a government Ministry that is paying him, I would have some questions...of course, we are talking of Italy. (snide joke, we have stupid government purchases in the US too...)

arcticpenguin · 8th September 2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown
My favorite quote from the article:I'm intrigued as to what tests Mr. Armanetti would recommend that would lead to his being certified, but his competitors not being certified.

My guess is that they are all certifiable.

Explorer · 8th September 2003, 01:55 PM

specious reasons said:

"They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo.

Trollbane · 8th September 2003, 02:09 PM

Nice anecdote Explorer, worthless as any kind of evidence, but nice... But the next time around when trying to locate a water pipe I would recommend visiting a local zoning commision or just taking a look at the blueprints of the house. It will be a lot cheaper.

Psiload · 8th September 2003, 03:05 PM

Explorer wrote:

A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo.

The pipe was laid out in a straight line? That's odd, don't they usually lay pipe in meandering loops, and figure eights? Or does that plumbing code only pertain to Dr. Seuss books?

Gee, let me guess...

The pipe followed a straight line diagonal tract from the house to the garden?

This reminds me of the amazing story of a dowser who had "divined" the location of a pick-up truck that had broken through the ice one winter, and was resting in thirty feet of water on the bottom of Lake George(upstate NY). I was a little kid at the time, and I was pretty impressed when I read the accounts of the miraculous "discovery" in the local newspaper. About a week later, I was out fishing with my grandfather, and he pointed out the spot where the dowser had "located" the pick-up...

It was about fifty yards offshore, at a spot located in a direct straight line from the boat ramp where the pick-up was last seen driving out onto the ice...

and a skeptic is born.

SquishyDave · 8th September 2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
Pretty good earner for a woo woo.

Not quite as good as a million US buckeroonies though. 1 million kablingie, in a lump sum no less.

Explorer · 8th September 2003, 10:57 PM

Psiload said:

"The pipe was laid out in a straight line? That's odd, don't they usually lay pipe in meandering loops, and figure eights? Or does that plumbing code only pertain to Dr. Seuss books?

Gee, let me guess...

The pipe followed a straight line diagonal tract from the house to the garden? "

No need for the sarcasm matey, I'm only the messenger!

The diagonal tract by-passed the front of the house. The tract could have been anywhere between a parallel line to the front boundary, to perpendicular to the boundary. In other words anywhere between an angle of 0 to 90 degrees. He found the exact angle.

Trollbane

There were no "blueprints" or any other existing plans available for the location of the pipe. My boss may have been a bit stupid, but he was a mean tight man who would not pay for anything if he could get it for nothing.

ImpyTimpy · 8th September 2003, 11:42 PM

No offense explorer, but call me skeptical of your stories. Seems to me you have a new one each time. First keyboards that play by themselves then telepathy, and now dowsing. What's next? Grey man that stood outside your window while you and a whole lot of other people attempted to communicate with him?

[edited to fix a typo]

Explorer · 9th September 2003, 12:13 AM

Hi Impy, you said:

"No offense explorer, but call me skeptical of your stories. Seems to me you have a new one each time. First keyboards that play by themselves then telepathy, and now dowsing. What's next? Grey man that stood outside your window while you and a whole lot of other people attempted to communicate with him?"

No offense taken at all. At fifty-eight years of age I have seen and experienced quite a bit to date, but probably no more than most people of my age. I am simply relating the events of that personal experience for interest only.

None of what I post on here will ever be proven or otherwise. That doesn't really matter to me, and I am content just to relate the event and still keep an open mind when others offer conventional explanations.

As I have said before, I am willing to be convinced by any plausible explanation, as long as it is sensible, well-thought out, and delivered with respect that all posters of whatever persuasion deserve on this board.

For your interest, I have probably nearly exhausted all my interesting events now.

Trollbane · 9th September 2003, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
Trollbane

There were no "blueprints" or any other existing plans available for the location of the pipe. My boss may have been a bit stupid, but he was a mean tight man who would not pay for anything if he could get it for nothing.

No blueprints?? Tell your boss to sue the guys who constructed the house.. It is obviously shoddy work. Every single house should have atleast the diagrams that show the position of the piping within the walls and the location of the pipe connecting the house to the main water pipe (This info is available also from the water companys archives, since they usually like to keep track of piping just incase something breaks)

Flo · 9th September 2003, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer
A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo.

Great. Like a "local and rather aged gentleman" could not have gathered previous knowledge of the layup of the pipes in the area.

Reminds me of the time an elderly gentleman told my parents he would locate water in their newly bought garden. He had a look around, spent a good half-hour with his dowser rod, then told them "here it will be", and here it was. My mom had a great time telling me "You and your scepticism, ha!". Happens the guy used to work there years ago and knew the well had been filled (and all the neighbors' gardens are laid up on the same plan) ...

Explorer · 9th September 2003, 11:51 AM

Trollbane said:

"No blueprints?? Tell your boss to sue the guys who constructed the house.. It is obviously shoddy work. Every single house should have atleast the diagrams that show the position of the piping within the walls and the location of the pipe connecting the house to the main water pipe (This info is available also from the water companys archives, since they usually like to keep track of piping just incase something breaks)"

The piece of land I am referring to was in agricultural use up until this new house was built. The ground area in question was not dug up by the builder but was simply used as a dumping ground for spoil. The pipe was laid according to a farming neighbour, many years before by another farmer long gone, but the route of the pipe had been forgotten by all that my boss approached in the village. The builder had no knowledge at all of any pipe, nor did the water company, as this was a private and DIY agricultural connection, so typical of rural North Devon in the UK. This in fact was the problem. My boss out of frustration, called in a dowser who happened to live in a different locality, so he, and the neighbours, and my boss had no relevant build plans to refer to, no local knowledge of the route of the pipe, just simply that a pipe was there somewhere, and it had to be removed.

CFLarsen · 9th September 2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquishyDave
Not quite as good as a million US buckeroonies though. 1 million kablingie, in a lump sum no less.

Try close to two-and-a-half million US buckeroonies...

8th September 2003, 10:34 AM	#1
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Dowsing, Randi Challange and Euro-water shortage... From today's New York Times...you will need to register to see the full article. The Randi Challenge is mentioned, but not by name.... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/08/in...pe/08ITAL.html Italy, Short of Dousing, Is Dowsing By JASON HOROWITZ OME, Sept. 7 — Rivers became dusty canals and wells ran dry in Italy this summer when an unrelenting drought left the country thirsting and searching for water. But not everyone looked to the skies for salvation. The nation's dowsers — a network of mystics who say they possess the ability to sense underground streams where most see parched earth — were out in force. Dowsers said the summer's meager rainfall, which the weather service of the Italian Air Force said amounted to less than half of the national average for the period, resulted in many requests to find new, secret sources of water."Every cloud has a silver lining," said Maurizio Armanetti, a dowser based in Tuscany, adding that "water is mankind's greatest resource." It is also a dowser's bread and butter.Toting forked sticks that resemble enormous wishbones, or dangling pendulums over pale, yellow plains, as if the earth were but a floating Ouija board, water diviners across the country sought untapped wells. Luigi Cantonati, who grows strawberries in the northern region of Trentino when not seeking springs, said that the drought had brought a burst of dowser business, and that farmers and small towns had requested his services about 80 percent more often than in recent years. "For the first time that I can remember, the fountains stopped running," he said. He added that desperation for water tested the disbelief of even the country's most hard-core skeptics. "It's like that old saying, `There's no problem with not knowing how to swim, until the water touches your backside — that's when you wake up,' " he said. "I think the skeptics are waking up."But many are still suspicious, charging that what dowsers see as their ancient gift is nothing but an old-fashioned gimmick. Geologists, the mainstream's preferred source for finding buried water, dismiss the dowsers as charlatans with success rates well within the bounds of chance. Dowsers, who also search for oil and golf balls, counter by calling scientists jealous. They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

8th September 2003, 10:51 AM	#2
specious_reasons Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,124	Quote: They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed Don't most dowsers claim 95+ percent success rates? Is the 80% an accurate number, or is that a standard agreed upon in the past?
	__________________ ta- DAVE!!!

8th September 2003, 11:11 AM	#3
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,155	Quote: Originally posted by specious_reasons Don't most dowsers claim 95+ percent success rates? Is the 80% an accurate number, or is that a standard agreed upon in the past? If you ask Mr. Randi, he'd probably say that most dowsers claim much higher success rates. I don't know, however, what success standard is required to win the challenge. Perhaps it depends upon the kind of dowsing the dowser claims to be able to do. Certainly if a dowser claims a 100 percent success rate, he should have no trouble hitting an 80 percent standard.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

8th September 2003, 11:13 AM	#4
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,155	My favorite quote from the article: Quote: Some specialists like Mr. Armanetti, a full-time dowser who says Italian oil companies and even the government have called on his services in the past, do not come cheap. He charges a baseline rate of 2,500 euros — about $2,700 — before he even considers searching for water. He worried, however, that his market, made fertile by the drought, would be diluted with opportunists. "They need to be certified," he said. I'm intrigued as to what tests Mr. Armanetti would recommend that would lead to his being certified, but his competitors not being certified.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

8th September 2003, 11:20 AM	#5
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	It occurs that the JREF might want -- a'la Sylvia -- to specifically invite Senore Armanetti to apply for the Challenge, and to explicitly detail how he would prove/certify his abilities...also, one wonders how the various companies and Ministries Sr. Armanetti refers to lists payments to him...if I were a public auditor of a government Ministry that is paying him, I would have some questions...of course, we are talking of Italy. (snide joke, we have stupid government purchases in the US too...)
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

8th September 2003, 11:35 AM	#6
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	Quote: Originally posted by Brown My favorite quote from the article:I'm intrigued as to what tests Mr. Armanetti would recommend that would lead to his being certified, but his competitors not being certified. My guess is that they are all certifiable.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

8th September 2003, 01:55 PM	#7
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959	specious reasons said: "They say they practice their craft with scientific precision, though a million-dollar prize offered by an American magician to anyone who can locate water in underground pipes with an 80 percent success rate remains unclaimed" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo.
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959

8th September 2003, 02:09 PM	#8
Trollbane Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	Nice anecdote Explorer, worthless as any kind of evidence, but nice... But the next time around when trying to locate a water pipe I would recommend visiting a local zoning commision or just taking a look at the blueprints of the house. It will be a lot cheaper.
Trollbane Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107

8th September 2003, 03:05 PM	#9
Psiload Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,105	Explorer wrote: A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo. The pipe was laid out in a straight line? That's odd, don't they usually lay pipe in meandering loops, and figure eights? Or does that plumbing code only pertain to Dr. Seuss books? Gee, let me guess... The pipe followed a straight line diagonal tract from the house to the garden? This reminds me of the amazing story of a dowser who had "divined" the location of a pick-up truck that had broken through the ice one winter, and was resting in thirty feet of water on the bottom of Lake George(upstate NY). I was a little kid at the time, and I was pretty impressed when I read the accounts of the miraculous "discovery" in the local newspaper. About a week later, I was out fishing with my grandfather, and he pointed out the spot where the dowser had "located" the pick-up... It was about fifty yards offshore, at a spot located in a direct straight line from the boat ramp where the pick-up was last seen driving out onto the ice... and a skeptic is born.
Psiload Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,105	__________________ You're not the boss of me.

8th September 2003, 07:37 PM	#10
SquishyDave Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canberra Posts: 1,644	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer Pretty good earner for a woo woo. Not quite as good as a million US buckeroonies though. 1 million kablingie, in a lump sum no less.
	__________________ Squishy doesn't irritate the hell out of me. - Quester_X

8th September 2003, 10:57 PM	#11
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959	Psiload said: "The pipe was laid out in a straight line? That's odd, don't they usually lay pipe in meandering loops, and figure eights? Or does that plumbing code only pertain to Dr. Seuss books? Gee, let me guess... The pipe followed a straight line diagonal tract from the house to the garden? " No need for the sarcasm matey, I'm only the messenger! The diagonal tract by-passed the front of the house. The tract could have been anywhere between a parallel line to the front boundary, to perpendicular to the boundary. In other words anywhere between an angle of 0 to 90 degrees. He found the exact angle. Trollbane There were no "blueprints" or any other existing plans available for the location of the pipe. My boss may have been a bit stupid, but he was a mean tight man who would not pay for anything if he could get it for nothing.
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959

8th September 2003, 11:42 PM	#12
ImpyTimpy Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 803	No offense explorer, but call me skeptical of your stories. Seems to me you have a new one each time. First keyboards that play by themselves then telepathy, and now dowsing. What's next? Grey man that stood outside your window while you and a whole lot of other people attempted to communicate with him? [edited to fix a typo]
ImpyTimpy Muse Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 803	__________________ "You are a bunch of kook haters and a hate-group. " - the now gone Jedi Knight describing the board's attitude to dangerous and out of this world ideas.

9th September 2003, 12:13 AM	#13
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959	Hi Impy, you said: "No offense explorer, but call me skeptical of your stories. Seems to me you have a new one each time. First keyboards that play by themselves then telepathy, and now dowsing. What's next? Grey man that stood outside your window while you and a whole lot of other people attempted to communicate with him?" No offense taken at all. At fifty-eight years of age I have seen and experienced quite a bit to date, but probably no more than most people of my age. I am simply relating the events of that personal experience for interest only. None of what I post on here will ever be proven or otherwise. That doesn't really matter to me, and I am content just to relate the event and still keep an open mind when others offer conventional explanations. As I have said before, I am willing to be convinced by any plausible explanation, as long as it is sensible, well-thought out, and delivered with respect that all posters of whatever persuasion deserve on this board. For your interest, I have probably nearly exhausted all my interesting events now.
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959

9th September 2003, 05:36 AM	#14
Trollbane Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer Trollbane There were no "blueprints" or any other existing plans available for the location of the pipe. My boss may have been a bit stupid, but he was a mean tight man who would not pay for anything if he could get it for nothing. No blueprints?? Tell your boss to sue the guys who constructed the house.. It is obviously shoddy work. Every single house should have atleast the diagrams that show the position of the piping within the walls and the location of the pipe connecting the house to the main water pipe (This info is available also from the water companys archives, since they usually like to keep track of piping just incase something breaks)
Trollbane Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 107

9th September 2003, 06:01 AM	#15
Flo Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massongy, France Posts: 2,803	Quote: Originally posted by Explorer A local and rather aged gentleman dowser was commissioned by my boss to locate the course of an underwater pipe across his garden. I watched him from a distance and he took an undulatiing path up and down the rather large front garden which was mainly a weedy lawn covered with some building rubble. Every so often he would plant a short cane in the ground. At the end of the session, and after just one survey, I was amazed to see a diagonal straight line line traced out by the canes on a diagonal tract, crossing the lawn. Subsequent excavation proved that the course of his dowse was smack on. The pipe was removed and the dowser was paid for a good and efficient job. He has earnt his living that way for many years. Pretty good earner for a woo woo. Great. Like a "local and rather aged gentleman" could not have gathered previous knowledge of the layup of the pipes in the area. Reminds me of the time an elderly gentleman told my parents he would locate water in their newly bought garden. He had a look around, spent a good half-hour with his dowser rod, then told them "here it will be", and here it was. My mom had a great time telling me "You and your scepticism, ha!". Happens the guy used to work there years ago and knew the well had been filled (and all the neighbors' gardens are laid up on the same plan) ...
	__________________ "Let me explain the order of things for you. There's the aristocracy, the upper class, middle class, working class, dumb animals, waiters, creeping things, head lice, people who eat packet soup, and then you." (Chef)

9th September 2003, 11:51 AM	#16
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959	Trollbane said: "No blueprints?? Tell your boss to sue the guys who constructed the house.. It is obviously shoddy work. Every single house should have atleast the diagrams that show the position of the piping within the walls and the location of the pipe connecting the house to the main water pipe (This info is available also from the water companys archives, since they usually like to keep track of piping just incase something breaks)" The piece of land I am referring to was in agricultural use up until this new house was built. The ground area in question was not dug up by the builder but was simply used as a dumping ground for spoil. The pipe was laid according to a farming neighbour, many years before by another farmer long gone, but the route of the pipe had been forgotten by all that my boss approached in the village. The builder had no knowledge at all of any pipe, nor did the water company, as this was a private and DIY agricultural connection, so typical of rural North Devon in the UK. This in fact was the problem. My boss out of frustration, called in a dowser who happened to live in a different locality, so he, and the neighbours, and my boss had no relevant build plans to refer to, no local knowledge of the route of the pipe, just simply that a pipe was there somewhere, and it had to be removed.
Explorer Muse Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 959

9th September 2003, 11:55 AM	#17
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Quote: Originally posted by SquishyDave Not quite as good as a million US buckeroonies though. 1 million kablingie, in a lump sum no less. Try close to two-and-a-half million US buckeroonies...
	__________________ SkepticReport.com