Piano Playing Juggler

Garrette · 16th October 2007, 03:02 PM

I suspect a gimmick but hope I'm wrong. Regardless, he's a talented juggler, and the act is entertaining.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2NDpPSgfwo

tkingdoll · 16th October 2007, 03:11 PM

I would say that the piano plays the next note in the sequence regardless of where you hit it. All you need to do is play the right intervals, but you don't have to be perfectly precise with where the balls hit.

It may be totally genuine but there's little point when the above method would guarantee a perfect performance every time.

Phil · 16th October 2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

I would say that the piano plays the next note in the sequence regardless of where you hit it. All you need to do is play the right intervals, but you don't have to be perfectly precise with where the balls hit.

It may be totally genuine but there's little point when the above method would guarantee a perfect performance every time.

I'd say there's no gimmick. He even hits a few clunkers.

tkingdoll · 16th October 2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Phil

I'd say there's no gimmick. He even hits a few clunkers.

Misdirection? Maybe a perfect play every time is suspect.

Phil · 16th October 2007, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Misdirection? Maybe a perfect play every time is suspect.

Maybe.

But I'll suspend any disbelief, just to allow myself to be entertained.

Michael C · 16th October 2007, 03:34 PM

A nice trick. As a pianist, I can say he's not producing the pitches by hitting the right keys: the hits don't follow the melody. There's also one hit (at 01:42) that doesn't produce a sound.

A way to do this would be to have a keyboard player hidden in the wings, following the act on cctv.

Azrael 5 · 16th October 2007, 04:55 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYUA...related&search=

A different dude,but Id say this was genuine.Jury's out on the OP's link.

Quinn · 16th October 2007, 05:04 PM

Neither of the guys are hitting keys that correspond to the notes you hear. Teek's hypothesis would be my guess as well. Still, cool party trick.

tkingdoll · 16th October 2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Phil

Maybe.

But I'll suspend any disbelief, just to allow myself to be entertained.

Annoyingly, I can't enjoy magic any more, since I started to learn about methods. Now that's all I look for. It ruins one's appreciation of the art. Maybe I'll bust through the other side when I've learned everything

And of course, you've just described the reason psychics and mediums etc will always be around. Their fans like them regardless of how it's done, and would rather believe it's genuine talent than a trick. And I sort of think "and that's why it's not the most important thing in the world to destroy all psychics". Kind of an uphill struggle against (for some people) human nature.

Although of course these two guys are still clearly very good jugglers.

Michael C · 17th October 2007, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYUA...related&search=

A different dude,but Id say this was genuine.Jury's out on the OP's link.

No, as Quinn said he's not hitting the correct keys. The same guy does a hilarious cello trick:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Azrael 5 · 17th October 2007, 04:36 AM

I guess you have to be a pianist to debunk these really.Pointless act really then.

tkingdoll · 17th October 2007, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

I guess you have to be a pianist to debunk these really.Pointless act really then.

Not at all. I'm not a pianist. It took one (or two or three) to confirm it, but you don't need to be able to do what Uri Geller does to debunk it.

The reason I was suspicious is that to do it properly would take extreme amounts of skill and precision and extra years of practice, whereas the method I proposed (or any other 'cheating' method, such as a pianist in the wings, which I favour less simply because of progs like Ellen where it would be impractical) takes a custom keyboard and a hell of a lot less effort. When watching any kind of performance, I always think "what is the simplest way of achieving this?". It's cynical, but if someone can make money do a lot of work and cheating a bit, or doing an insane amount of work and not cheating, he'll take the former.

It's no different to magic, mentalism or stage hyponotism where most of the audience believe the performer has amazing ability beyond the capability of your average Joe.

Mercutio · 17th October 2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Michael C

No, as Quinn said he's not hitting the correct keys. The same guy does a hilarious cello trick:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Also not even close to actual fingerings for what he is playing. Not surprisingly, he barely moves his right hand at all--and toward the end, it even sounded like a synthesizer instead of a cello.

Makes one wonder whether it would be possible to do it properly. Certainly, not with a real cello, but still...

Garrette · 17th October 2007, 06:42 AM

I suspected Teek's method in her first post, but didn't want it to be true. As someone who used to play piano (it's been many years) I willfully refused to look at whether the positioning and timing matched the music because I wanted to enjoy it.

And I did.

Terry · 17th October 2007, 06:57 AM

He's a pretty decent bounce juggler (in my not-very-skilled opinion), whatever the deal with the notes. And the rhythm of the hits is real close, which of itself is non-trivial.

Phil · 17th October 2007, 08:33 AM

A quick Googliegoo reveals a few other folks have been discussing this years before us. And many have come to the same conclusion. Here's just one blog from '04.

The timing of the ball hits is still very impressive.

tkingdoll · 17th October 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Phil

A quick Googliegoo reveals a few other folks have been discussing this years before us. And many have come to the same conclusion. Here's just one blog from '04.

The timing of the ball hits is still very impressive.

Lame! We are years behind the times

Stir · 17th October 2007, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Annoyingly, I can't enjoy magic any more, since I started to learn about methods. Now that's all I look for. It ruins one's appreciation of the art. Maybe I'll bust through the other side when I've learned everything

Teek:
That's too bad, but there is hope! I've been studying performance magic for quite a few years, but still immensely enjoy watching good magic performed well ... and there are a lot of talented performers out there. Even when I know the method used (or at least a possible method) to produce an effect, I can still appreciate the skill in the technique, and even more, enjoy the presentation. Even when I've seen the same performer do the same effect many times, or even when it's one that I do, I'm still entertained ... sometimes I learn something new, sometimes I just enjoy the audience response, sometimes I'm able to set aside what I know about technique and just enjoy.

Many of my magician friends also enjoy watching good performance, but there are many magicians who do not ... I've always had trouble understanding why. My (unsolicited) advice; don't wait until you've 'learned everything' (that will never happen!) ... attend a quality magic show and you might find it surprisingly entertaining.

GroundStrength · 17th October 2007, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Also not even close to actual fingerings for what he is playing. Not surprisingly, he barely moves his right hand at all--and toward the end, it even sounded like a synthesizer instead of a cello.

Makes one wonder whether it would be possible to do it properly. Certainly, not with a real cello, but still...

He is clicking some mechanism with the index finger of the hand without the bow.

It is surely playing a preprogrammed set.

GroundStrength · 17th October 2007, 02:54 PM

Duplicate post

Azrael 5 · 18th October 2007, 02:43 PM

The timing in the juggling is impressive in itself for me!!

16th October 2007, 03:02 PM	#1
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	Piano Playing Juggler I suspect a gimmick but hope I'm wrong. Regardless, he's a talented juggler, and the act is entertaining. Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2NDpPSgfwo
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	__________________ My kids still love me.

16th October 2007, 03:11 PM	#2
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,450	I would say that the piano plays the next note in the sequence regardless of where you hit it. All you need to do is play the right intervals, but you don't have to be perfectly precise with where the balls hit. It may be totally genuine but there's little point when the above method would guarantee a perfect performance every time.
	__________________ TAM London Oct 3rd and 4th 2009 www.tamlondon.org www.spoonscience.com The World Record Spoon Bend from TAM6 - for all benders, pushers and dealers

16th October 2007, 03:13 PM	#3
Phil Master Satyr Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Society's underbelly Posts: 6,411	Originally Posted by tkingdoll I would say that the piano plays the next note in the sequence regardless of where you hit it. All you need to do is play the right intervals, but you don't have to be perfectly precise with where the balls hit. It may be totally genuine but there's little point when the above method would guarantee a perfect performance every time. I'd say there's no gimmick. He even hits a few clunkers.
	__________________ Dude looks like a Skepchick. "Damn...I agree with Phil...Now I need a shower." -- Mercutio

16th October 2007, 03:15 PM	#4
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,450	Originally Posted by Phil I'd say there's no gimmick. He even hits a few clunkers. Misdirection? Maybe a perfect play every time is suspect.
	__________________ TAM London Oct 3rd and 4th 2009 www.tamlondon.org www.spoonscience.com The World Record Spoon Bend from TAM6 - for all benders, pushers and dealers

16th October 2007, 03:23 PM	#5
Phil Master Satyr Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Society's underbelly Posts: 6,411	Originally Posted by tkingdoll Misdirection? Maybe a perfect play every time is suspect. Maybe. But I'll suspend any disbelief, just to allow myself to be entertained.
	__________________ Dude looks like a Skepchick. "Damn...I agree with Phil...Now I need a shower." -- Mercutio

16th October 2007, 03:34 PM	#6
Michael C Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: N 49° 29.5 E 008° 28.2 Posts: 1,545	A nice trick. As a pianist, I can say he's not producing the pitches by hitting the right keys: the hits don't follow the melody. There's also one hit (at 01:42) that doesn't produce a sound. A way to do this would be to have a keyboard player hidden in the wings, following the act on cctv.

16th October 2007, 04:55 PM	#7
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,171	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYUA...related&search= A different dude,but Id say this was genuine.Jury's out on the OP's link.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

16th October 2007, 05:04 PM	#8
Quinn Breathtakingly blasphemous. Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,000	Neither of the guys are hitting keys that correspond to the notes you hear. Teek's hypothesis would be my guess as well. Still, cool party trick.
	__________________ It's not a matter of living life without mystery or wonder. It's a matter of living life without the approval of people who ignorantly assume that by rejecting the irrational, I experience no mystery or wonder. And frankly, I do just fine without that.

16th October 2007, 05:39 PM	#9
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,450	Originally Posted by Phil Maybe. But I'll suspend any disbelief, just to allow myself to be entertained. Annoyingly, I can't enjoy magic any more, since I started to learn about methods. Now that's all I look for. It ruins one's appreciation of the art. Maybe I'll bust through the other side when I've learned everything And of course, you've just described the reason psychics and mediums etc will always be around. Their fans like them regardless of how it's done, and would rather believe it's genuine talent than a trick. And I sort of think "and that's why it's not the most important thing in the world to destroy all psychics". Kind of an uphill struggle against (for some people) human nature. Although of course these two guys are still clearly very good jugglers.
	__________________ TAM London Oct 3rd and 4th 2009 www.tamlondon.org www.spoonscience.com The World Record Spoon Bend from TAM6 - for all benders, pushers and dealers Last edited by tkingdoll; 16th October 2007 at 05:42 PM.

17th October 2007, 04:36 AM	#11
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,171	I guess you have to be a pianist to debunk these really.Pointless act really then.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

17th October 2007, 04:50 AM	#12
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,450	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 I guess you have to be a pianist to debunk these really.Pointless act really then. Not at all. I'm not a pianist. It took one (or two or three) to confirm it, but you don't need to be able to do what Uri Geller does to debunk it. The reason I was suspicious is that to do it properly would take extreme amounts of skill and precision and extra years of practice, whereas the method I proposed (or any other 'cheating' method, such as a pianist in the wings, which I favour less simply because of progs like Ellen where it would be impractical) takes a custom keyboard and a hell of a lot less effort. When watching any kind of performance, I always think "what is the simplest way of achieving this?". It's cynical, but if someone can make money do a lot of work and cheating a bit, or doing an insane amount of work and not cheating, he'll take the former. It's no different to magic, mentalism or stage hyponotism where most of the audience believe the performer has amazing ability beyond the capability of your average Joe.
	__________________ TAM London Oct 3rd and 4th 2009 www.tamlondon.org www.spoonscience.com The World Record Spoon Bend from TAM6 - for all benders, pushers and dealers

17th October 2007, 06:42 AM	#14
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	I suspected Teek's method in her first post, but didn't want it to be true. As someone who used to play piano (it's been many years) I willfully refused to look at whether the positioning and timing matched the music because I wanted to enjoy it. And I did.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,927	__________________ My kids still love me.

17th October 2007, 06:57 AM	#15
Terry Zeitgeist-impaired Technical Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: logged in to the server Posts: 6,309	He's a pretty decent bounce juggler (in my not-very-skilled opinion), whatever the deal with the notes. And the rhythm of the hits is real close, which of itself is non-trivial.

17th October 2007, 08:33 AM	#16
Phil Master Satyr Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Society's underbelly Posts: 6,411	A quick Googliegoo reveals a few other folks have been discussing this years before us. And many have come to the same conclusion. Here's just one blog from '04. The timing of the ball hits is still very impressive.
	__________________ Dude looks like a Skepchick. "Damn...I agree with Phil...Now I need a shower." -- Mercutio

17th October 2007, 08:38 AM	#17
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,450	Originally Posted by Phil A quick Googliegoo reveals a few other folks have been discussing this years before us. And many have come to the same conclusion. Here's just one blog from '04. The timing of the ball hits is still very impressive. Lame! We are years behind the times
	__________________ TAM London Oct 3rd and 4th 2009 www.tamlondon.org www.spoonscience.com The World Record Spoon Bend from TAM6 - for all benders, pushers and dealers

17th October 2007, 08:49 AM	#18
Stir Anarchist In The System Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Plaza of Dark Delights, Lankhmar Posts: 171	Originally Posted by tkingdoll Annoyingly, I can't enjoy magic any more, since I started to learn about methods. Now that's all I look for. It ruins one's appreciation of the art. Maybe I'll bust through the other side when I've learned everything Teek: That's too bad, but there is hope! I've been studying performance magic for quite a few years, but still immensely enjoy watching good magic performed well ... and there are a lot of talented performers out there. Even when I know the method used (or at least a possible method) to produce an effect, I can still appreciate the skill in the technique, and even more, enjoy the presentation. Even when I've seen the same performer do the same effect many times, or even when it's one that I do, I'm still entertained ... sometimes I learn something new, sometimes I just enjoy the audience response, sometimes I'm able to set aside what I know about technique and just enjoy. Many of my magician friends also enjoy watching good performance, but there are many magicians who do not ... I've always had trouble understanding why. My (unsolicited) advice; don't wait until you've 'learned everything' (that will never happen!) ... attend a quality magic show and you might find it surprisingly entertaining.
	__________________ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. -H.L.Mencken ... if I have been wrong in my agnosticism, when I die I'll walk up to God in a manly way and say, Sir, I made an honest mistake -H.L.Mencken Last edited by Stir; 17th October 2007 at 08:58 AM.

17th October 2007, 02:52 PM	#19
GroundStrength Scourge of the Attentionwhore Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Houston Baby! Posts: 649	Originally Posted by Mercutio Also not even close to actual fingerings for what he is playing. Not surprisingly, he barely moves his right hand at all--and toward the end, it even sounded like a synthesizer instead of a cello. Makes one wonder whether it would be possible to do it properly. Certainly, not with a real cello, but still... He is clicking some mechanism with the index finger of the hand without the bow. It is surely playing a preprogrammed set.

17th October 2007, 02:54 PM	#20
GroundStrength Scourge of the Attentionwhore Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Houston Baby! Posts: 649	Duplicate post

18th October 2007, 02:43 PM	#21
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,171	The timing in the juggling is impressive in itself for me!!
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here