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Old 19th October 2007, 11:33 AM   #1
Diagoras
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Former conspiracy believer here

Hey guys. I've been reading some of the threads in this forum, and they're of particular interest to me because for a couple years I was firmly in the conspiracy theory camp.

I've never been a big fan of Bush, or the Republican Party, or politicians in general, so when I was first exposed to the conspiracy theory it had an immediate appeal to me. It confirmed my belief that these were horrible people who are up to no good.

It wasn't the first conspiracy theory I had swallowed, either. In retrospect, it is obvious that every time I've fallen for one it was primarily for emotional reasons rather than rational ones. A conspiracy theory doesn't stick unless it has some kind of emotional appeal.

The second thing that drew me to the theory was the whole "action flick" aspect of the story. The story really does read like a movie, with missiles and explosives and a super-secret government plot to fool the public, which would have to be defeated by an impassioned popular movement to expose the truth. That's exciting stuff, if you believe it.

And the third thing that I liked about it was the feeling of being "in the know". When you start to believe in the conspiracy, you see the world divided into the following three groups:

1) The evil conspirators. People with no conscience, of pure evil, who will do anything for personal gain. They thirst for money and power, and if it means murdering thousands of people, that's just fine. They are also extremely good at keeping secrets. They are very competent at staging fake displays to fool the public, yet they are also such bumbling fools that evidence of the conspiracy is so obvious and plentiful that it is irrefutable.

2) The dupes. These are the mindless drones who go about their daily lives believing whatever the media and the government tell them, i.e. pretty much everybody on the planet, including all the structural engineers and firemen with their so-called "evidence" (though some of them might be in the first category).

3) The freedom-fighting conspiracy theorists. These are the people who, from the comfort of their computer chairs, have seen through the veil of secrecy and lies. They have seen the videos and read the websites. They have filled their heads with so many half-truths about the events of that day that they feel the conspiracy theory is rock-solid. If anyone disproves one of their half-truths, there are thousands more to fall back on.

Eventually, however, I decided I couldn't only read conspiracy theorists anymore. I had to at least look at the claims of the opposition in detail, to see if I could refute their arguments and to see if maybe possibly I might be mistaken. Before that I was afraid of doing that, fearing that I might be sucked into being a government dupe again.

Well, that's exactly what happened. When I looked carefully at the conspiracy debunking sites, they made a lot of sense. I couldn't refute their arguments after all. And it seemed so much more plausible, once I actually saw that the "holes" in the official story weren't what I thought they were. Looking back, it seems absolutely crazy that I could have bought it hook, line and sinker like I did. I try to be skeptical and to not let my emotions get in the way of analyzing the facts wherever possible, but apparently I failed at that. Luckily I got better and with a dose of rationality I've been cured of the conspiracy delusion.

It is possible to change people's minds. Don't give up hope, guys.

Last edited by Diagoras; 19th October 2007 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:36 AM   #2
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of good info here, with plenty of knowledgeable people.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:38 AM   #3
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That’s quite an admission. Kudos to you. Care to give us your demographics for context?

How were you first introduced to the Truther expericence?

What source in particular caused you to doubt the "freedom-fighting conspiracy theorists"?
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:40 AM   #4
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Welcome to the forums, Diagoras. Congrats on finding your way out of that maze, and thanks for giving us some insight into your thought process. To me the most interesting part of this subject is what makes people believe irrational things. Since people in the midst of irrationality can't explain why they believe what they do, it's good to hear from people who've been through it and are thinking more clearly now.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:41 AM   #5
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This is an obvious work. The reasons are too many to list.

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Last edited by RedIbis; 19th October 2007 at 11:45 AM. Reason: a pic is worth a thousand posts
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:42 AM   #6
Diagoras
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
That’s quite an admission. Kudos to you. Care to give us your demographics for context?
I'm a 22-year-old college student from New York.

Quote:
How were you first introduced to the Truther expericence?
My first exposure was the "Pentagon Strike" flash movie, which you must have seen before.

Quote:
What source in particular caused you to doubt the "freedom-fighting conspiracy theorists"?
I don't remember exactly. It was a combination of things. One was simply arguing the issue on another forum with people who didn't buy the conspiracy. One was the awesome episode of Penn and Teller's BS on conspiracy theories. Another was the Popular Mechanics website. I'm sure there were more, but I can't think of them right now.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:42 AM   #7
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Nominated (the OP). You've summarized everything about the Truth movement and its appeal to people, and what anybody can do to counteract that appeal.

You're a sight for sore eyes Diagoras.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:43 AM   #8
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I can't wait for Zensmack to swoop in and try to "save" Diagoras.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:46 AM   #9
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Thanks for sharing that, Diagoras. I think a lot of people who post on this forum have had similar experiences. Not about conspiracy theories necessarily, but about all sorts of irrational beliefs. Mine were a variety of wishful-thinking, messages-from-above type beliefs. It's not an easy or comfortable thing to lose your illusion, and it takes a lot of guts. So congratulations, and welcome to the forum.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Reason: a pic is worth a thousand posts
So I guess that takes care of your next 1000...?

Just asking.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:49 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
This is an obvious work. The reasons are too many to list.

And we fell for it hook, bobber, and sinker.


...wait a minute...
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Diagoras View Post
My first exposure was the "Pentagon Strike" flash movie, which you must have seen before.
Welcome to the forums, Diagoras

"Pentagon Strike" was my first exposure to the conspiracy theories also.

If you still continue to research the subject, I suggest Gravy's website as an excellent source of information.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:51 AM   #13
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Congratulations on your recovery.

Keep in mind that there are more than a handful of folks who post on these forums who are former conspiracy theory supporters themselves. So, no need to be embarrassed or anything like that. Any good skeptical person would prefer to be shown their error, so that they can correct their thoughts, rather than continue to be wrong about something and not realize it.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:55 AM   #14
Diagoras
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Originally Posted by Minadin View Post
Congratulations on your recovery.

Keep in mind that there are more than a handful of folks who post on these forums who are former conspiracy theory supporters themselves. So, no need to be embarrassed or anything like that. Any good skeptical person would prefer to be shown their error, so that they can correct their thoughts, rather than continue to be wrong about something and not realize it.
I am not embarrassed in the least. As Jonathan Swift once said, "A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday."
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:56 AM   #15
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Unfortunately Diagoras brain will need to be disected before we can determine the actual cause of the change. For the good of ape society of course.
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:56 AM   #16
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If there were only more Truth "seekers" in the movement, we'd see this thing dying out. Thanks for the OP and welcome to the forum, Diagoras!
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Diagoras View Post
I am not embarrassed in the least. As Jonathan Swift once said, "A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday."
Are you sure you're just 22?
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:58 AM   #18
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Congratulations, lots of people never wake up. I must confess to having fallen for all manner of nonsense in my life, the worst part about being duped is not only are you lied to, but people make a liar out of you. Personally, the reason I try to adhere as close as I can to the scientific method isn't because I'm so smart .
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Old 19th October 2007, 11:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
And we fell for it hook, bobber, and sinker.


...wait a minute...

Yup exactly, not just the bait, but the tackle too. Google images didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but you got the point.

Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:02 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
How do you see that it is?

Paranoid much?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:04 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Yup exactly, not just the bait, but the tackle too. Google images didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but you got the point.

Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
What do you mean "work"? Are you implying that I'm being dishonest? If so, I don't know what to tell you. Is it so incomprehensible that somebody might actually have changed their mind about something like this?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:04 PM   #22
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Congrats, Diagras.

I am an ex-CT nut myself, as are a couple others who have posted here.

As Rush Limbaugh said to Sean Hannity the other night, "The truth will win every time."
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:06 PM   #23
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Diagoras,

I can relate to your OP. I, myself, fell into the realm of conspiracism for a while.
Whilst i didn't buy the whole deal with missiles, fat bin laden, et cetera: I can relate to your post quite well.

When i first started looking into the topic, I was told to keep an open mind.
Sure, that seems fair, what harm could it do?
A lot.
As the saying goes - you can become so open minded that your brains fall out. And that, to me, is the essence of conspiracism. Doubt everything. Trust no-one.
It's a dark place, indeed.
I'm glad to hear you've came through it.

Well done.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Congrats, Diagras.

I am an ex-CT nut myself, as are a couple others who have posted here.

As Rush Limbaugh said to Sean Hannity the other night, "The truth will win every time."
Tssk... it's "The 'truth' will win every time." Read the memo!
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Yup exactly, not just the bait, but the tackle too. Google images didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but you got the point.

Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
Someone always has to go and pee in the punchbowl.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
How do you see that it is?

Paranoid much?
Paranoid? That would require my being afraid of something. It's the observation of a transparent attempt at mutual ego stroking.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Yup exactly, not just the bait, but the tackle too. Google images didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but you got the point.

Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
"Obvious work?" What do you mean? That Diagoras is putting us on? That he is some kind of "disinfo agent," perhaps? You have evidence of that, right? I mean, it's not like he's making a wild, insane claim. He simply said basically "I changed my mind, the CT stuff is rot."

Anyhow, welcome to the forum Diagoras.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Yup exactly, not just the bait, but the tackle too. Google images didn't come up with exactly what I was looking for, but you got the point.

Seriously, how do you guys not see that this is just an obvious work?
There's always a chance it's an obvious work, but I don't understand why you think it's so "obvious." Care to explain? Or is this just one of those gut feelings, if that's it, then there's no need to explain.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:10 PM   #29
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Red;

As I have always said. When someone comes here I try to believe them, to trust that they are being honest, until proven otherwise.

I will admit that Diagoras does seem to fit the bill, seems to fit the sterotype, and I see where you are coming from wrt suspecting some mischief here, but until he shows me otherwise, why should I doubt him?

Welcome to the forum Diagoras...don't mind Red, he means well, and is almost always civil, just plays on the opposite site of the fence...so to speak.

TAM
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Unfit4Command View Post
There's always a chance it's an obvious work, but I don't understand why you think it's so "obvious." Care to explain? Or is this just one of those gut feelings, if that's it, then there's no need to explain.
It's "obvious" in the same way that the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers is "obvious".
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:12 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Diagoras View Post
What do you mean "work"? Are you implying that I'm being dishonest? If so, I don't know what to tell you. Is it so incomprehensible that somebody might actually have changed their mind about something like this?
It's not incomprehensible that someone would change their mind on this, at all.

The tone of the OP and the vague details make your intent obvious.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:12 PM   #32
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:13 PM   #33
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Do you Diagoras, renounce Alex Jones and accept the love of Gravy into your life?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
It's not incomprehensible that someone would change their mind on this, at all.

The tone of the OP and the vague details make your intent obvious.
And what are you implying that his intent was?

To make the CTers look foolish?

I'm not sure they need any help in that department.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Paranoid? That would require my being afraid of something. It's the observation of a transparent attempt at mutual ego stroking.
Paranoia doesn't actually imply fear at all:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paranoia

(the first definition, if you're curious, has to do with the clinical medical definition)
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Red;

As I have always said. When someone comes here I try to believe them, to trust that they are being honest, until proven otherwise.

I will admit that Diagoras does seem to fit the bill, seems to fit the sterotype, and I see where you are coming from wrt suspecting some mischief here, but until he shows me otherwise, why should I doubt him?

Welcome to the forum Diagoras...don't mind Red, he means well, and is almost always civil, just plays on the opposite site of the fence...so to speak.

TAM
Thanks Tam, your posts are almost always polite and friendly. Calmer, more civil voices such as yours are always more persuasive than the anger and irrationality that pops up on boths sides of the "fence."

But isn't my "playing the opposite side" the whole point of debate and discourse?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:16 PM   #37
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I thing Gravy is best served over French Fries.

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Old 19th October 2007, 12:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I thing Gravy is best served over French Fries.

TAM
And cheese.
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:17 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
It's not incomprehensible that someone would change their mind on this, at all.

The tone of the OP and the vague details make your intent obvious.
So what is he going to do? Run back to LCF or some other such forum and say
"Hahahahahahaha! I went to JREF and pretended that I used logic and reason to look at the truth movement and decided we were wrong and they fell for it!"?
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Old 19th October 2007, 12:17 PM   #40
Diagoras
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
It's not incomprehensible that someone would change their mind on this, at all.

The tone of the OP and the vague details make your intent obvious.
Sorry for not transcribing a day-by-day journal of my deconversion. If you want more details, feel free to ask me. But if you're just going to come out and accuse me of being a liar when I know I'm not lying, well, I know it's probably just because you're insecure about your beliefs but it really makes you come off as a jerk, and if you want to convince me that the conspiracy theory is true you've just dealt a huge blow to your credibility in my eyes.

EDIT: I would go back and look for my old posts where I used to defend the conspiracy theory, but I've since been banned from that forum (for criticizing some of the tenets of Islam...) My ban runs out late next month, and I can link you to the posts then if you'd like.

Last edited by Diagoras; 19th October 2007 at 12:23 PM.
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