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Thunder · 22nd October 2007, 02:37 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_affair

The Lavon Affair was a failed attempt by Israel to attack Western civilian targets in Egypt, blaim it on the Arabs, and convince the British not to withdraw from the Suez Canal. The plan failed and great damage was done to Israel's trustworthyness (only 6 years old at the time).

And a few years ago, Israel awarded medals to the surviving participants in the operation. Israel actually rewarded people, who's goal it was to murder innocent civilians, inorder to frame another nation, to achieve Israel's goals. How in the name of God would Israel reward these people? What does this say about Israel?

The ultimate issue here is: if they could do it in 1954...could they do it again in 2007?

The Lavon Affair proved without a shadow of a doubt that Israel is 100% compable of launching a false-flag terrorist attack, in order to blaim the Arabs, in the hopes that the target of the attack will retaliate against the Arabs.

I do not believe that Israel is responsible for 9-11, for there is just no evidence to support the idea. But anyone who says that the concept that Israel could attempt such a dastardly deed is an "anti-Semite" needs to be told only one thing: Lavon Affair.

Drudgewire · 22nd October 2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

In the early 1950s the United States began pressuring the British to withdraw from the Suez Canal, and thereby abandon two operative treaties, the Convention of Constantinople and the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936 that made the canal a neutral zone under British control. Israel was strongly opposed to the British withdrawal...

How can that be? I thought the US has been a Zionist tool since the end of WWII?

dudalb · 22nd October 2007, 02:57 PM

Another "Hate Israel" thread from Parky76.
Big surprise.

boloboffin · 22nd October 2007, 03:04 PM

To me, this is a primary example of why states so rarely try to carry out false flag attacks.

Thunder · 22nd October 2007, 03:29 PM

I used to be much much fonder of Israel, in my earlier years. Then I began to read.

But reading that Israel would actually reward people who tried to murder civilians in order to blaim the Arabs, and force a Western retaliation, makes me really wonder if Israel deserves the little bit of support I do give them.

dudalb · 22nd October 2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

I used to be much much fonder of Israel, in my earlier years. Then I began to read.

But reading that Israel would actually reward people who tried to murder civilians in order to blaim the Arabs, and force a Western retaliation, makes me really wonder if Israel deserves the little bit of support I do give them.

Or maybe you just think that Israel and the lives of five million Jews are a small price to pay for "peace" in the MidEast?

Thunder · 22nd October 2007, 03:53 PM

In the bigoted, warped, extremist, dishonest minds of right-wing Zionists..peace is BAD for Israel.

How could full diplomatic and economic relations with the Arab states be BAD for Israel? The Middle East could become a new power house of technology and economic power.

But in exchange for peace for their children..and a bright future for all the peoples of the Middle East, Israel must give up all or most of the West Bank, the Arab sectors of Jerusalem, and parts of the Old City.

Only in the mind of insane extremists, would land be more important then peace and prosperity.

Its like what Golda Meir said. There will be peace in the Middle East only when the Israelis and the Palestinians love their children more then they hate each other, and let go of their insane extremist ideas.

Sword_Of_Truth · 22nd October 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by parky76

Its like what Golda Meir said. There will be peace in the Middle East only when the Israelis and the Palestinians love their children more then they hate each other, and let go of their insane extremist ideas.

The actual quote you so viciously mangled above has been disputed as to wether or not Golda actually said it.

Even then, you failed to get it right, the known variants on that quote go something like "There will be peace when the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate us."

There are numerous variations, both in the quote itself and the date she allegedly said it (as much as 20 years between them). But the quote never places blame for all this hatred on anyone but the Arabs.

Arkan_Wolfshade · 22nd October 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Another "Hate Israel" thread from Parky76.
Big surprise.

Any such posting history by parky76 is irrelevant to the OP. Either the OP is factually correct, or it is not. Argument, not arguer, etc, etc

Originally Posted by dudalb

Or maybe you just think that Israel and the lives of five million Jews are a small price to pay for "peace" in the MidEast?

Strawman and argumentum ad hominem.

Thunder · 22nd October 2007, 07:12 PM

Hey. Everyone here knows I dislike and distrust the Jewish state. But the facts of the Lavon Affair remain. Israel attempted a false-flag terror attack, which would blaim the Arabs, and hopefully instigate a Western retaliation.

If they did it before..they can do it again. Which is why I am extremally suspicous of the USS Liberty.

mailman · 25th October 2007, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by parky76

But in exchange for peace for their children..and a bright future for all the peoples of the Middle East, Israel must give up all or most of the West Bank, the Arab sectors of Jerusalem, and parts of the Old City.

This is what I dont get. Why does Israel have to give up parts of Jerusalem? After all, it was a Jewish city hundreds of years before a muslim even existed.

So, if (as is totted out all the time) ownership is taken on who was there first...then Arabs have absolutely no claim to any part of Israel or Jerusalem because they werent the first there.

Or am I getting something wrong here?

Mailman

SDC · 25th October 2007, 05:26 AM

I hope this can stick to the OP and not go off into a general discussion of Israeli topics.

And with regard to the Lavon affair... You know, welcome to the "community" of nations. Things like this happen all the time. And if I understand correctly, it flopped. Using your Wikipedia link -- never a strong source in such a controversial area -- I read that, "They did little damage to the targets and caused no injuries or deaths." In fact, it was the death knell for the Egyptian Jewish community and its 2,000+ year history; 25,000 were expelled, basically all that had remained the persecution of the preceding several years, and 1,000 were in prisons or camps in Egypt. (Again, I'm drawing from Wikipedia.)

So what do you know. Israel is a nation like others. But its crimes -- I think we can agree on the term in this case -- are constantly trotted out while those of its enemies are forgotten.

Does MaGZ monitor JREF forums for opportunities? I had the impression he does. Well, all I can say then is I expect him to pop by. Hello, MaGZ; I hate your views, but you are always civil.

Edit: Oh please, not the Liberty. There are threads devoted to that. Could we stick to a single topic? Or is this going to be everything bad that Israel is accused of.

Henry Crun · 25th October 2007, 01:01 PM

Are some people in Israel capable of a false flag to provoke retaliation by a third country?

Sure, there are hawks, there are doves, there are clever and there are stupid Israelis. Even in Zahal.

Would it be necessary today? Would it be worth the risk?

I don´t think so. There are rule10ed people in the region enough. You don´t have to MAKE them anymore - they are there. 1954 was before 1956 and 1967 or even 1982.

The other things imho: it´s not in Israels interest to involve the US (or EU or NATO or Burkina-Faso) any further in the region because it would limit her own possibilities.
Israel is far more stronger than 53 years ago.
If they want an airstrike against a syrian reactor, they go there, drop some missiles, leave and just don´t talk about it.
Why should they want foreign involvement?
If they want retaliation they can have it the time they want and the way they want.

It is always hard to evaluate Israel. They don´t trust the dictatorships around her, they don´t trust their friends. I think they are absolutely right to do so.

There has to be some unpredictable element in her politics (even this is quite the opposite one would understand by the term "diplomacy").
This would be limited, if USA or UN would have a cause and a mandat to take the action.

So I think, Israel would not prefer by any false-flag operation to bring in a third party on the scenario.
But I may wrong, wouldn´t be the first time...

Sorry if my english is too lousy or I missed ze point.

Sword_Of_Truth · 25th October 2007, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by SDC

Does MaGZ monitor JREF forums for opportunities? I had the impression he does. Well, all I can say then is I expect him to pop by. Hello, MaGZ; I hate your views, but you are always civil.

Magz states his ideas with a minimum of 4 letter words or abuse of the caps-lock key, but there is absolutely nothing "civil" about the savage barbarity he openly advocates.

SDC · 25th October 2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

Magz states his ideas with a minimum of 4 letter words or abuse of the caps-lock key, but there is absolutely nothing "civil" about the savage barbarity he openly advocates.

OK, you are right, stupid on my part.

It's just seeing this dreadful affair, which essentially spelled the end of an ancient Jewish community thanks to sheer stupidity, put forward as proof of 2007 Israeli untrustworthiness, well, it's frustrating at least.

Thanks for setting me right without anger.

Whack01 · 25th October 2007, 06:22 PM

I thought people would source their stuff better here; from the articles cited in wikipedia:

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html#n
"
Israel honors 9 Egyptian spies

After 50 years, President Katsav presents three surviving members with certificates of appreciation at Jerusalem ceremony
By Reuters

JERUSALEM - After half a century of reticence and recrimination, Israel on Wednesday honored nine Egyptian Jews recruited as agents-provocateur in what became one of the worst intelligence bungles in the country's history. Israel was at war with Egypt when it hatched a plan in 1954 to ruin its rapprochement with the United States and Britain by firebombing sites frequented by foreigners in Cairo and Alexandria. But Israeli hopes the attacks, which caused no casualties, would be blamed on local insurgents collapsed when the young Zionist bombers were caught and confessed at public trials. Two were hanged. The rest served jail terms and emigrated to Israel. Embarrassed before the West, Israel long denied involvement. It kept mum even after its 1979 peace deal with Egypt, fearing memories of the debacle could sour ties.

"Although it is still a sensitive situation, we decided now to express our respect for these heroes," President Moshe Katsav said after presenting the three surviving members of the bomber ring with certificates of appreciation at a Jerusalem ceremony. What went wrong in the "Lavon Affair" - after Pinhas Lavon, Israel's defence minister when the plot came to light - remains a matter of debate in a country more used to tales of espionage coups.

The Egyptian agents were ignored

The Egyptian Jews were recruited by a fringe unit of Military Intelligence rather than the premier Israeli spy agency Mossad. The situation recurred in 1985, when U.S. Navy analyst Jonathan Pollard was sentenced to life imprisonment in the United States for passing military secrets to Israel's scientific liaison office. "As with Pollard, this (Lavon Affair) was a rogue operation," David Kimche, a former Mossad deputy chief, said. "We knew never to go down that road again." There is a twist to the Egyptian case - the now widespread belief that the bombers were betrayed to the authorities by their Israeli handler, who turned double-agent. "The general feeling is that he was the one who caused it all," Kimche said. Under a veil of secrecy, the handler was tried for contacts with Egyptian intelligence and jailed for 10 years. Meanwhile, the agents locked up in Egypt were ignored, excluded from several prisoner exchanges with Israel after the wars of 1956 and 1967.

Now that they have been officially recognised in Israel, the former agents are campaigning for a full account of their operation to be included in the high-school syllabus. "This is a great day for all of us, those who were hanged and those who died," Marcelle Ninio, the only female member of the cell, said. "We are happy we've got our honor back." "

There's a big difference between Sabotage and a mass murdering terrorist attack. Although this attack is inexcusable, it does not rise to anywhere near the level that current terrorist attacks are rising. To draw a parallel between an isolated "rogue" operation that happened 50 years ago that was designed to kill no one and mass murder is just insane. (note: I'm only calling this a rogue operation because the ONLY cited source refers to it as one; I know only what I've read.)

Also the article cited as a reference refers to the devices as an "firebombs" where as the wikipedia entry purporting to describe the events describes them using "acid placed over nitroglycerine" ? This does not sound like a "firebomb" to me, but I don't know much about explosives other than that nitroglycerine is misspelled in the wikipedia entry and if memory serves is considered an explosive not incendiary (though I'm guessing that's what the acid served for though I could be wrong). I'd like more info on the devices used to determine if they were meant to be lethal.

phantasmagoria7 · 31st May 2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Thunder

The Lavon Affair was a failed attempt by Israel to attack Western civilian targets in Egypt, blaim it on the Arabs, and convince the British not to withdraw from the Suez Canal. The plan failed and great damage was done to Israel's trustworthyness (only 6 years old at the time).

And a few years ago, Israel awarded medals to the surviving participants in the operation. Israel actually rewarded people, who's goal it was to murder innocent civilians, inorder to frame another nation, to achieve Israel's goals. How in the name of God would Israel reward these people? What does this say about Israel?

The ultimate issue here is: if they could do it in 1954...could they do it again in 2007?

The Lavon Affair proved without a shadow of a doubt that Israel is 100% compable of launching a false-flag terrorist attack, in order to blaim the Arabs, in the hopes that the target of the attack will retaliate against the Arabs.

I do not believe that Israel is responsible for 9-11, for there is just no evidence to support the idea. But anyone who says that the concept that Israel could attempt such a dastardly deed is an "anti-Semite" needs to be told only one thing: Lavon Affair.

Although someone did call you an Israel hater, I'm surprised there wasn't really any "You hate Joooos!" or "You're a Nazi!" comments made, which is very typical.

beachnut · 31st May 2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7

Although someone did call you an Israel hater, I'm surprised there wasn't really any "You hate Joooos!" or "You're a Nazi!" comments made, which is very typical.

He is banned, he will not be answering unless you are him. 2007? and...

welcome to JREF

phantasmagoria7 · 31st May 2012, 09:05 PM

Hello and thanks! I didn't realize this thread was so old until you pointed that out.

I had been reading about the Lavon Affair and was curious what people here were saying, so I googled "Lavon Affair JREF" and ended up here.

I've lurked on this forum from time to time, but just now ended up making an account.

Cheers!

1337m4n · 1st June 2012, 11:42 AM

This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far.

I don't get it.

phantasmagoria7 · 1st June 2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far.

I don't get it.

It'll be okay. Don't worry.

plague311 · 1st June 2012, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7

I'll be okay. Don't worry.

When the issue is brought up, he's also given the same cookie cutter response to why he rezzed the thread.

Quote:

Hello and thanks! I didn't realize this thread was so old until you pointed that out. I had been reading about the Lavon Affair and was curious what people here were saying, so I googled "Lavon Affair JREF" and ended up here.

I've lurked on this forum from time to time, but just now ended up making an account.

Cheers!

I remember saying this the other thread. Who cares? To what end are we talking about this, and why does it matter?

phantasmagoria7 · 1st June 2012, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by plague311

When the issue is brought up, he's also given the same cookie cutter response to why he rezzed the thread.

I remember saying this the other thread. Who cares? To what end are we talking about this, and why does it matter?

I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search.

plague311 · 1st June 2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7

I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search.

I have no issues with that Phanta, in fact, I love seeing new people come here. This is, by far, the best home for 9/11 research that I've found. Between gravy's sites, and all the other great guys with mounds of information, there is no question you won't get an answer to.

Now time for the disclaimer. If you're going to ask questions, be prepared to understand the answers. If you say something incorrect, rest assured, someone here will correct you. If you troll, expect to be called out on it.

I am sure you are a rational person, and can understand the peoples input here. If you rezz 2 threads, give the same response to why, then people are going to consider you either A) a troll, or B) a thruther. Sucks sometimes, but that's the way the ball bounces.

George152 · 1st June 2012, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7

I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search.

You may not be aware of it but your post count is 26.
Left hand column name, level and number of posts...

NoahFence · 1st June 2012, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far.

I don't get it.

The thread got SHC'd......

carlitos · 1st June 2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by George152

You may not be aware of it but your post count is 26.
Left hand column name, level and number of posts...

No, that number was accurate when he wrote that. His interest in Jewish conspiracies extends beyond the Lavon Affair into the "dancing israelis of 9/11," where he has made another 10 posts.

22nd October 2007, 02:37 PM	#1
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Lavon Affair and Israel Conspiracies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_affair The Lavon Affair was a failed attempt by Israel to attack Western civilian targets in Egypt, blaim it on the Arabs, and convince the British not to withdraw from the Suez Canal. The plan failed and great damage was done to Israel's trustworthyness (only 6 years old at the time). And a few years ago, Israel awarded medals to the surviving participants in the operation. Israel actually rewarded people, who's goal it was to murder innocent civilians, inorder to frame another nation, to achieve Israel's goals. How in the name of God would Israel reward these people? What does this say about Israel? The ultimate issue here is: if they could do it in 1954...could they do it again in 2007? The Lavon Affair proved without a shadow of a doubt that Israel is 100% compable of launching a false-flag terrorist attack, in order to blaim the Arabs, in the hopes that the target of the attack will retaliate against the Arabs. I do not believe that Israel is responsible for 9-11, for there is just no evidence to support the idea. But anyone who says that the concept that Israel could attempt such a dastardly deed is an "anti-Semite" needs to be told only one thing: Lavon Affair.

22nd October 2007, 02:48 PM	#2
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Quote: In the early 1950s the United States began pressuring the British to withdraw from the Suez Canal, and thereby abandon two operative treaties, the Convention of Constantinople and the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936 that made the canal a neutral zone under British control. Israel was strongly opposed to the British withdrawal... How can that be? I thought the US has been a Zionist tool since the end of WWII?
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

22nd October 2007, 03:04 PM	#4
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	To me, this is a primary example of why states so rarely try to carry out false flag attacks.
	Last edited by boloboffin; 22nd October 2007 at 03:19 PM.

22nd October 2007, 05:10 PM	#9
Arkan_Wolfshade Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Making Mytheon come to life Posts: 7,158	Originally Posted by dudalb Another "Hate Israel" thread from Parky76. Big surprise. Any such posting history by parky76 is irrelevant to the OP. Either the OP is factually correct, or it is not. Argument, not arguer, etc, etc Originally Posted by dudalb Or maybe you just think that Israel and the lives of five million Jews are a small price to pay for "peace" in the MidEast? Strawman and argumentum ad hominem.
	__________________ Amy: You should try homeopathic medicine, Bender. Try some zinc. Bender: I am forty percent zinc. Amy: Then take some echinacea, or St. John's Wort. Professor: Or a big fat placebo. It's all the same crap.

25th October 2007, 04:09 AM	#11
mailman Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 341	Originally Posted by parky76 But in exchange for peace for their children..and a bright future for all the peoples of the Middle East, Israel must give up all or most of the West Bank, the Arab sectors of Jerusalem, and parts of the Old City. This is what I dont get. Why does Israel have to give up parts of Jerusalem? After all, it was a Jewish city hundreds of years before a muslim even existed. So, if (as is totted out all the time) ownership is taken on who was there first...then Arabs have absolutely no claim to any part of Israel or Jerusalem because they werent the first there. Or am I getting something wrong here? Mailman
mailman Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 341

22nd October 2007, 02:57 PM	#3
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,023	Another "Hate Israel" thread from Parky76. Big surprise.

22nd October 2007, 03:29 PM	#5
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	I used to be much much fonder of Israel, in my earlier years. Then I began to read. But reading that Israel would actually reward people who tried to murder civilians in order to blaim the Arabs, and force a Western retaliation, makes me really wonder if Israel deserves the little bit of support I do give them.

22nd October 2007, 03:33 PM	#6
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 23,023	Originally Posted by parky76 I used to be much much fonder of Israel, in my earlier years. Then I began to read. But reading that Israel would actually reward people who tried to murder civilians in order to blaim the Arabs, and force a Western retaliation, makes me really wonder if Israel deserves the little bit of support I do give them. Or maybe you just think that Israel and the lives of five million Jews are a small price to pay for "peace" in the MidEast?

22nd October 2007, 03:53 PM	#7
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	In the bigoted, warped, extremist, dishonest minds of right-wing Zionists..peace is BAD for Israel. How could full diplomatic and economic relations with the Arab states be BAD for Israel? The Middle East could become a new power house of technology and economic power. But in exchange for peace for their children..and a bright future for all the peoples of the Middle East, Israel must give up all or most of the West Bank, the Arab sectors of Jerusalem, and parts of the Old City. Only in the mind of insane extremists, would land be more important then peace and prosperity. Its like what Golda Meir said. There will be peace in the Middle East only when the Israelis and the Palestinians love their children more then they hate each other, and let go of their insane extremist ideas.

22nd October 2007, 04:28 PM	#8
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by parky76 Its like what Golda Meir said. There will be peace in the Middle East only when the Israelis and the Palestinians love their children more then they hate each other, and let go of their insane extremist ideas. The actual quote you so viciously mangled above has been disputed as to wether or not Golda actually said it. Even then, you failed to get it right, the known variants on that quote go something like "There will be peace when the Arabs* learn to love their children more than they hate us.*" There are numerous variations, both in the quote itself and the date she allegedly said it (as much as 20 years between them). But the quote never places blame for all this hatred on anyone but the Arabs.

22nd October 2007, 07:12 PM	#10
Thunder Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 34,947	Hey. Everyone here knows I dislike and distrust the Jewish state. But the facts of the Lavon Affair remain. Israel attempted a false-flag terror attack, which would blaim the Arabs, and hopefully instigate a Western retaliation. If they did it before..they can do it again. Which is why I am extremally suspicous of the USS Liberty.

25th October 2007, 05:26 AM	#12
SDC Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York area Posts: 2,250	I hope this can stick to the OP and not go off into a general discussion of Israeli topics. And with regard to the Lavon affair... You know, welcome to the "community" of nations. Things like this happen all the time. And if I understand correctly, it flopped. Using your Wikipedia link -- never a strong source in such a controversial area -- I read that, "They did little damage to the targets and caused no injuries or deaths." In fact, it was the death knell for the Egyptian Jewish community and its 2,000+ year history; 25,000 were expelled, basically all that had remained the persecution of the preceding several years, and 1,000 were in prisons or camps in Egypt. (Again, I'm drawing from Wikipedia.) So what do you know. Israel is a nation like others. But its crimes -- I think we can agree on the term in this case -- are constantly trotted out while those of its enemies are forgotten. Does MaGZ monitor JREF forums for opportunities? I had the impression he does. Well, all I can say then is I expect him to pop by. Hello, MaGZ; I hate your views, but you are always civil. Edit: Oh please, not the Liberty. There are threads devoted to that. Could we stick to a single topic? Or is this going to be everything bad that Israel is accused of.
	Last edited by SDC; 25th October 2007 at 05:28 AM. Reason: Oh for heaven's sake, not the Liberty, too.

25th October 2007, 01:01 PM	#13
Henry Crun Student Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 43	Are some people in Israel capable of a false flag to provoke retaliation by a third country? Sure, there are hawks, there are doves, there are clever and there are stupid Israelis. Even in Zahal. Would it be necessary today? Would it be worth the risk? I don´t think so. There are rule10ed people in the region enough. You don´t have to MAKE them anymore - they are there. 1954 was before 1956 and 1967 or even 1982. The other things imho: it´s not in Israels interest to involve the US (or EU or NATO or Burkina-Faso) any further in the region because it would limit her own possibilities. Israel is far more stronger than 53 years ago. If they want an airstrike against a syrian reactor, they go there, drop some missiles, leave and just don´t talk about it. Why should they want foreign involvement? If they want retaliation they can have it the time they want and the way they want. It is always hard to evaluate Israel. They don´t trust the dictatorships around her, they don´t trust their friends. I think they are absolutely right to do so. There has to be some unpredictable element in her politics (even this is quite the opposite one would understand by the term "diplomacy"). This would be limited, if USA or UN would have a cause and a mandat to take the action. So I think, Israel would not prefer by any false-flag operation to bring in a third party on the scenario. But I may wrong, wouldn´t be the first time... Sorry if my english is too lousy or I missed ze point.
Henry Crun Student Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 43

25th October 2007, 02:27 PM	#14
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by SDC Does MaGZ monitor JREF forums for opportunities? I had the impression he does. Well, all I can say then is I expect him to pop by. Hello, MaGZ; I hate your views, but you are always civil. Magz states his ideas with a minimum of 4 letter words or abuse of the caps-lock key, but there is absolutely nothing "civil" about the savage barbarity he openly advocates.

25th October 2007, 05:33 PM	#15
SDC Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York area Posts: 2,250	Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth Magz states his ideas with a minimum of 4 letter words or abuse of the caps-lock key, but there is absolutely nothing "civil" about the savage barbarity he openly advocates. OK, you are right, stupid on my part. It's just seeing this dreadful affair, which essentially spelled the end of an ancient Jewish community thanks to sheer stupidity, put forward as proof of 2007 Israeli untrustworthiness, well, it's frustrating at least. Thanks for setting me right without anger.

25th October 2007, 06:22 PM	#16
Whack01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 199	I thought people would source their stuff better here; from the articles cited in wikipedia: http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html#n " Israel honors 9 Egyptian spies After 50 years, President Katsav presents three surviving members with certificates of appreciation at Jerusalem ceremony By Reuters JERUSALEM - After half a century of reticence and recrimination, Israel on Wednesday honored nine Egyptian Jews recruited as agents-provocateur in what became one of the worst intelligence bungles in the country's history. Israel was at war with Egypt when it hatched a plan in 1954 to ruin its rapprochement with the United States and Britain by firebombing sites frequented by foreigners in Cairo and Alexandria. But Israeli hopes the attacks, which caused no casualties, would be blamed on local insurgents collapsed when the young Zionist bombers were caught and confessed at public trials. Two were hanged. The rest served jail terms and emigrated to Israel. Embarrassed before the West, Israel long denied involvement. It kept mum even after its 1979 peace deal with Egypt, fearing memories of the debacle could sour ties. "Although it is still a sensitive situation, we decided now to express our respect for these heroes," President Moshe Katsav said after presenting the three surviving members of the bomber ring with certificates of appreciation at a Jerusalem ceremony. What went wrong in the "Lavon Affair" - after Pinhas Lavon, Israel's defence minister when the plot came to light - remains a matter of debate in a country more used to tales of espionage coups. The Egyptian agents were ignored The Egyptian Jews were recruited by a fringe unit of Military Intelligence rather than the premier Israeli spy agency Mossad. The situation recurred in 1985, when U.S. Navy analyst Jonathan Pollard was sentenced to life imprisonment in the United States for passing military secrets to Israel's scientific liaison office. "As with Pollard, this (Lavon Affair) was a rogue operation," David Kimche, a former Mossad deputy chief, said. "We knew never to go down that road again." There is a twist to the Egyptian case - the now widespread belief that the bombers were betrayed to the authorities by their Israeli handler, who turned double-agent. "The general feeling is that he was the one who caused it all," Kimche said. Under a veil of secrecy, the handler was tried for contacts with Egyptian intelligence and jailed for 10 years. Meanwhile, the agents locked up in Egypt were ignored, excluded from several prisoner exchanges with Israel after the wars of 1956 and 1967. Now that they have been officially recognised in Israel, the former agents are campaigning for a full account of their operation to be included in the high-school syllabus. "This is a great day for all of us, those who were hanged and those who died," Marcelle Ninio, the only female member of the cell, said. "We are happy we've got our honor back." " There's a big difference between Sabotage and a mass murdering terrorist attack. Although this attack is inexcusable, it does not rise to anywhere near the level that current terrorist attacks are rising. To draw a parallel between an isolated "rogue" operation that happened 50 years ago that was designed to kill no one and mass murder is just insane. (note: I'm only calling this a rogue operation because the ONLY cited source refers to it as one; I know only what I've read.) Also the article cited as a reference refers to the devices as an "firebombs" where as the wikipedia entry purporting to describe the events describes them using "acid placed over nitroglycerine" ? This does not sound like a "firebomb" to me, but I don't know much about explosives other than that nitroglycerine is misspelled in the wikipedia entry and if memory serves is considered an explosive not incendiary (though I'm guessing that's what the acid served for though I could be wrong). I'd like more info on the devices used to determine if they were meant to be lethal.
Whack01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 199	Last edited by Whack01; 25th October 2007 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Formatting

31st May 2012, 09:00 PM	#17
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61	Originally Posted by Thunder The Lavon Affair was a failed attempt by Israel to attack Western civilian targets in Egypt, blaim it on the Arabs, and convince the British not to withdraw from the Suez Canal. The plan failed and great damage was done to Israel's trustworthyness (only 6 years old at the time). And a few years ago, Israel awarded medals to the surviving participants in the operation. Israel actually rewarded people, who's goal it was to murder innocent civilians, inorder to frame another nation, to achieve Israel's goals. How in the name of God would Israel reward these people? What does this say about Israel? The ultimate issue here is: if they could do it in 1954...could they do it again in 2007? The Lavon Affair proved without a shadow of a doubt that Israel is 100% compable of launching a false-flag terrorist attack, in order to blaim the Arabs, in the hopes that the target of the attack will retaliate against the Arabs. I do not believe that Israel is responsible for 9-11, for there is just no evidence to support the idea. But anyone who says that the concept that Israel could attempt such a dastardly deed is an "anti-Semite" needs to be told only one thing: Lavon Affair. Although someone did call you an Israel hater, I'm surprised there wasn't really any "You hate Joooos!" or "You're a Nazi!" comments made, which is very typical.
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61

31st May 2012, 09:01 PM	#18
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,948	Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 Although someone did call you an Israel hater, I'm surprised there wasn't really any "You hate Joooos!" or "You're a Nazi!" comments made, which is very typical. He is banned, he will not be answering unless you are him. 2007? and... welcome to JREF

31st May 2012, 09:05 PM	#19
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61	Hello and thanks! I didn't realize this thread was so old until you pointed that out. I had been reading about the Lavon Affair and was curious what people here were saying, so I googled "Lavon Affair JREF" and ended up here. I've lurked on this forum from time to time, but just now ended up making an account. Cheers!
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61

1st June 2012, 11:42 AM	#20
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far. I don't get it.
	__________________ http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo

1st June 2012, 11:44 AM	#21
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61	Originally Posted by 1337m4n This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far. I don't get it. It'll be okay. Don't worry.
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61	Last edited by phantasmagoria7; 1st June 2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Grammar

1st June 2012, 11:58 AM	#22
plague311 Muse Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Yankees Universe Posts: 934	Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 I'll be okay. Don't worry. When the issue is brought up, he's also given the same cookie cutter response to why he rezzed the thread. Quote: Hello and thanks! I didn't realize this thread was so old until you pointed that out. I had been reading about the Lavon Affair and was curious what people here were saying, so I googled "Lavon Affair JREF" and ended up here. I've lurked on this forum from time to time, but just now ended up making an account. Cheers! I remember saying this the other thread. Who cares? To what end are we talking about this, and why does it matter?
	__________________ "What is stopping you from taking action? Did you try CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc? Do you have a plan? Are you going to take action? What is your goal? 10 years of failure, no action." - The best question to the "truth" movement, phrased by Beachnut

1st June 2012, 12:04 PM	#23
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61	Originally Posted by plague311 When the issue is brought up, he's also given the same cookie cutter response to why he rezzed the thread. I remember saying this the other thread. Who cares? To what end are we talking about this, and why does it matter? I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search.
phantasmagoria7 Scholar Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 61

1st June 2012, 12:31 PM	#24
plague311 Muse Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Yankees Universe Posts: 934	Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search. I have no issues with that Phanta, in fact, I love seeing new people come here. This is, by far, the best home for 9/11 research that I've found. Between gravy's sites, and all the other great guys with mounds of information, there is no question you won't get an answer to. Now time for the disclaimer. If you're going to ask questions, be prepared to understand the answers. If you say something incorrect, rest assured, someone here will correct you. If you troll, expect to be called out on it. I am sure you are a rational person, and can understand the peoples input here. If you rezz 2 threads, give the same response to why, then people are going to consider you either A) a troll, or B) a thruther. Sucks sometimes, but that's the way the ball bounces.
	__________________ "What is stopping you from taking action? Did you try CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc? Do you have a plan? Are you going to take action? What is your goal? 10 years of failure, no action." - The best question to the "truth" movement, phrased by Beachnut

1st June 2012, 02:24 PM	#25
George152 Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hamilton New Zealand Posts: 2,054	Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 I've only had my account since yesterday, and this will just be my 16th post. The Lavon Affair and The Dancing Israelis were two topics I was curious to read about on the JREF forum, which I found via Google search. You may not be aware of it but your post count is 26. Left hand column name, level and number of posts...
	__________________ Unemployment isn't working

1st June 2012, 02:44 PM	#26
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,418	Originally Posted by 1337m4n This guy is starting to creep me out. He's necro'd two ancient threads, both over two years old, both started by the same (banned) poster, both related to Israel, and both for no reason other than to throw around a snide comment that is irrelevant to the primary discussion. And these are his only posts on the forum so far. I don't get it. The thread got SHC'd......
	__________________ Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake. -Henry David Thoreau

1st June 2012, 02:59 PM	#27
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 11,619	Originally Posted by George152 You may not be aware of it but your post count is 26. Left hand column name, level and number of posts... No, that number was accurate when he wrote that. His interest in Jewish conspiracies extends beyond the Lavon Affair into the "dancing israelis of 9/11," where he has made another 10 posts.