Stepbrother officially believes the 9/11 conspiracy theory

anticonspiracy911 · 22nd October 2007, 07:25 PM

My stepbrother believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Why? You ask. Because apparently a friend of his stepfather's used to work with the air force and said that the angles those commerical airliners took were impossible and that the airliners were not commerical airliners. Of course, in his appeal to authority I was getting the movie files for Screw Loose Change just to save him from himself, but nope he never was interested enough. Now I'm not going to lie, my stepbrother is an idiot to begin with, but I find it baffling how many people fall into this ridiculious movement. Maybe I should make up something ridiculious and say everything to destroy this made up thing was experimental so you can't look at the standardize procedure to debunk it. Hell, I could make a lot of money off of people's stupidity. But I choose not to because I'm an authentic truther unlike those wannabes over at Loose Change. I just thought I'd share this little tidbit to people and vent my frustration of another's lack of understanding of basic physical laws.

tacodaemon · 22nd October 2007, 07:54 PM

Worked with the Air Force, eh?

Cashier at the BX?

Quad4_72 · 22nd October 2007, 08:06 PM

Sorry to hear that. Just keep hittin him with the facts. Thats pretty much the most you can do.

CurtC · 22nd October 2007, 08:12 PM

Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life?

Reality Believer · 22nd October 2007, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life?

You have to seek the "Truth". It won't come to you.
http://9-11.meetup.com/249/

defaultdotxbe · 22nd October 2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life?

same reason i cant either i guess

i actually saw my first peice of evidence they exist off the internet today though, guy on the expressway had a "9/11 was an inside job" bumper sticker (right across from the ron paul sticker)

and in case wondering, he didnt look old enough to vote, lol

Gravy · 22nd October 2007, 08:42 PM

Beat him like a redheaded stepbrother.

Unsecured Coins · 22nd October 2007, 09:05 PM

and if he doesn't have red hair, they make dyes for that

R.Mackey · 22nd October 2007, 09:07 PM

My best friend has a life motto, gifted to him by his older brother:

"Don't Be An Idiot!!"

Single most useful bit of advice I've ever heard. I'd offer that to your stepbrother.

Unfit4Command · 22nd October 2007, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life?

I haven't met any Truthers in a while either, not since I've actually been researching the subject at least.

Btodd · 22nd October 2007, 09:44 PM

The biggest reason I'm as well-versed as I am on the issue is because of my cousin, who fell into the same mental coma. Although he is susceptible to woo, it still shocked and sickened me how an otherwise intelligent person could become so impervious to reason, and be so quickly and completely convinced of absolute nonsense.

I battered him for an entire weekend, we had some really frustrating moments, and recently he hinted that he was over it. Then he came up for the weekend, and after several beers, he somehow started in on certain points again, although he seemed less zealous as before. I am fascinated by the psychology of this and other similar woo beliefs, and have recently been making note of all the similarities among them. Is anyone familiar with good insights on the psychology and cultural aspects of conspiracies and other fringe beliefs?

Right now, it's almost as if he knows on a base level that he's wrong, but still can't quite rid himself of it. I think this fills a deep psychological hole somehow, and is similar to losing your religion (for those who have). You know deep down that it makes no sense, but you keep hanging on. It takes time for it to happen, and there most likely isn't a single moment to define when it's over, you just eventually realize it's over. Come to think of it, his sudden and complete change to Truther was just like a religious conversion.

I could be wrong, but I never am.

Whack01 · 22nd October 2007, 10:03 PM

I know the feeling, it's always sad to see somebody you actually care about fall into this stuff.

I agree that most people who buy in to nonsensical ideas are just looking for something in life that they lack, be it purpose, pride, a sense of belonging or any of a myriad of other things. I can sympathize with the 911 truthers plight in that sense, but I'm afraid if anyone actually takes the "revolution" seriously and perpetuates domestic terrorism, sympathy is going to be in very short supply for those who do not immediately reject these theories.

Alex C · 23rd October 2007, 02:21 AM

Similar situation. Sister believes it cos she saw a 'documentary'. I just old her the steel didn't have to melt and left it at that. I've also heard college mates mouth off about they're little 'impossibilities' they learned from internet videos too. I just didn't bother joining that conversation, it wouldn't have gone anywhere... Not when you've got a college lecturer who worked his life as a photographer yet buys the moon landing was a hoax. Ignorance is the name of the game here in Britain it seems...

buka001 · 23rd October 2007, 03:51 AM

My best friend emigrated to the US. Was chatting to him on msn the other day. He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere.

I hit him with everything. Still kept his mind closed. I was quite shocked!! I incorrectly assumed he was pretty rational and logically minded.

Ocelot · 23rd October 2007, 04:45 AM

The reason people know the angles that the planes came in at, is because they saw planes come in at that angle. Therefore planes can come in at that angle.

There may be some restriction on how a commercial airline pilot, pilots a plane for a safe landing but these clearly do not apply to half trained terrorists intent on crashing.

But facts aren't the reason your stepbrother believes. Facts won't change his opinion. I'd guess he enjoys the contoversy, it's a little way to rebel against authority.

A W Smith · 23rd October 2007, 05:46 AM

try to convince your sister to divorce him. You don't want that idiot gene polluting your family's future gene pool. My condolences if they already have children.

Brainache · 23rd October 2007, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by A W Smith

try to convince your sister to divorce him. You don't want that idiot gene polluting your family's future gene pool. My condolences if they already have children.

Her sister married her step-brother? I didn't know they were Tasmanian...

Gravy · 23rd October 2007, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Btodd

Is anyone familiar with good insights on the psychology and cultural aspects of conspiracies and other fringe beliefs?

Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum.

Michael Shermer: Why People Believe Weird Things

Carl Sagan: The Demon-Haunted World : Science As a Candle in the Dark

How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich

NYCEMT86 · 23rd October 2007, 06:45 AM

AC911, I know how you feel. My best friend since childhood is a twoofer, but he won't go and protest since that interferes with his x-box time, I have invited him here many times, but he has refused. People will believe whatever they want, look at religion.

chipmunk stew · 23rd October 2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum.

Michael Shermer: Why People Believe Weird Things

Carl Sagan: The Demon-Haunted World : Science As a Candle in the Dark

How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich

Great suggestions. The first two are a must. Haven't read the third--I'll have to check it out.

I'd also recommend the following excellent titles:
Irrationality by Stuart Sutherland
Quirkology by Richard Wiseman

Alferd_Packer · 23rd October 2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by buka001

He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere.

Tell him that the cameras are all real time only. The cost and the amount of space needed to record and store the video on a daily basis would be prohibative.

Shalamar · 23rd October 2007, 09:43 AM

My boss believes in the 911 conspiracy. Called me a sheep when I expressed my dismay.

I need a new job. :/

chipmunk stew · 23rd October 2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

My boss believes in the 911 conspiracy. Called me a sheep when I expressed my dismay.

I need a new job. :/

A sheep...who questioned his boss???

Shalamar · 23rd October 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by chipmunk stew

A sheep...who questioned his boss???

And yet.. He blindly believes in the twoofers. Who's the sheep?

A W Smith · 23rd October 2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Brainache

Her sister married her step-brother? I didn't know they were Tasmanian...

I dont know WHY I mistook the thread title as "brother in law"

Dr Adequate · 23rd October 2007, 11:56 AM

I thought that traffic cameras pointed at traffic, but no, obviously some of them are watching the sky ... for aliens.

T.A.M. · 23rd October 2007, 12:02 PM

My sister and her Fionce saw Loose Change, and began to "believe" the CT. I was lucky enough to have been talking to them at a Birthday party several days later.

Lets just say when I was finished I had not only answered all the questions they had, but I had made them see how insane the theories really were/are.

Don't give up ac911....

btodd and shalamar, welcome to the forum.

TAM

anticonspiracy911 · 23rd October 2007, 12:02 PM

I think a big factor in all of this after pondering it is that he hates Bush with a passion and hates the war in Iraq. I don't know the exact figures, but I have a feeling the majority who believe in the 9/11 conspiracy either hate one of these or both. Think of it, as sad as it is for the world of rationality it's like the perfect plot to recharge your hatred.

Q: Why do you hate Bush?
A: Because he self-created this god damn war in Iraq! 9/11 was an inside job!

Q: Well if 9/11 was an inside job then how come they didn't set up weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Why would they create a war they know they can't definitively win only to form a stigma around their regime and have their approval ratings plummet to all-time lows?

A: To make it look realistic! 9/11 was an inside job!

Q: But it'd still look realistic with the finding of weapons of mass destruction and it would strengthen their popularity in the process. Why do the opposite when this option is clearly more beneficiary?

A: Shut up! 9/11 was an inside job!

See how you can't win with rationality? I guess beliefs are really deep seated.

fezzic · 23rd October 2007, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

I thought that traffic cameras pointed at traffic, but no, obviously some of them are watching the sky ... for aliens.

They do at least part of the view includes the sky at times. There are tourists who stand on the sidewalk in Waikiki in the field of vision of a Kalakaua Avenue traffic camera and call home to have friends see them in Waikiki.

Btodd · 23rd October 2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum.

Thanks Mark, I've read the first two, but will check out the third.

And having you welcome me is an honor. I have seen your debates on Hardfire, and read much of your online work, and all of it is superb. If I ever make it to NYC, I would love to shake your hand. Keep up the good work!

sts60 · 24th October 2007, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by buka001

My best friend emigrated to the US. Was chatting to him on msn the other day. He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere.

I assume you mean Washington, DC. I live outside DC and have been there quite a bit, but we have a gazillion traffic cameras here as well. As Alferd_Packer pointed out, traffic cameras as a rule don't record video. Their job is to allow traffic controllers to survey road conditions and look at accidents in real time.

Certainly, some cameras may have seen the AA77 crash. For example, the Virginia DOT Washington Blvd. at Pentagon/I-395 East camera (this worked in IE but not in Firefox) has a decent view of part of the Pentagon and nearby airspace. (I don't know when that camera was installed.) But there's no reason to expect any traffic camera to have recorded it.

Sabrina · 24th October 2007, 07:34 AM

If you go by the views they show while checking traffic on NBC-4, there isn't one with a view of the Pentagon. Typically they show an area just past it on 395 where you hit the 14th Street Bridge or maybe in the vicinity of King Street, but that's before the Pentagon and doesn't have a view of the building itself.

Now granted, I haven't watched the other local news channels to see if THEY show that area, but I know NBC doesn't.

Jonnyclueless · 24th October 2007, 07:40 AM

I had a client who was convinced by the whole folding 20 dollar bill thing. If someone can be convinced because folding a bill can look like an image, I don't think there is much hope for them.

nicepants · 24th October 2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Shalamar

And yet.. He blindly believes in the twoofers. Who's the sheep?

Better a sheep than a goat, blindly eating up any conspiracy garbage anyone throws at you.

anticonspiracy911 · 24th October 2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sabrina

If you go by the views they show while checking traffic on NBC-4, there isn't one with a view of the Pentagon. Typically they show an area just past it on 395 where you hit the 14th Street Bridge or maybe in the vicinity of King Street, but that's before the Pentagon and doesn't have a view of the building itself.

Now granted, I haven't watched the other local news channels to see if THEY show that area, but I know NBC doesn't.

The traffic cameras here in Albany, NY never point at any of the buildings. The Cornith tower which is the most symbolic one of Albany is behind the camera view. So I find it unlikely that there are any that point at the Pentagon.

1337m4n · 24th October 2007, 09:38 PM

Bleehhhhh.

This sort of thing doesn't matter to me. My friends and family are my friends and family no matter what. If they hold an opinion radically different from my own, we don't fight about it. The most that happens is we have a friendly debate that we both enjoy. Like my aunt. She's the biggest fundie Christian you'll ever meet, but we get along just fine.

So don't worry. I assure you that your stepbrother is still your stepbrother.

...Unless of course, he's really one of the reptilian NWO disinfo agents. Hey, it happens.

CptColumbo · 24th October 2007, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

My best friend has a life motto, gifted to him by his older brother:

"Don't Be An Idiot!!"

Single most useful bit of advice I've ever heard. I'd offer that to your stepbrother.

from "The Office" (US version)

Michael: What's the most inspiring thing I ever said to you?

Dwight: "Don't be an idiot." It changed my life. Now whenever I'm faced with a difficult decision I think "Would an idiot do this? and if an idiot would, I don't do it.

gumboot · 25th October 2007, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by sts60

I assume you mean Washington, DC. I live outside DC and have been there quite a bit, but we have a gazillion traffic cameras here as well. As Alferd_Packer pointed out, traffic cameras as a rule don't record video. Their job is to allow traffic controllers to survey road conditions and look at accidents in real time.

Certainly, some cameras may have seen the AA77 crash. For example, the Virginia DOT Washington Blvd. at Pentagon/I-395 East camera (this worked in IE but not in Firefox) has a decent view of part of the Pentagon and nearby airspace. (I don't know when that camera was installed.) But there's no reason to expect any traffic camera to have recorded it.

Russell Pickering was in contact with the VDOT people as part of his research, and confirmed that the footage is not recorded.

-Gumboot

22nd October 2007, 07:25 PM	#1
anticonspiracy911 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 356	Stepbrother officially believes the 9/11 conspiracy theory My stepbrother believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Why? You ask. Because apparently a friend of his stepfather's used to work with the air force and said that the angles those commerical airliners took were impossible and that the airliners were not commerical airliners. Of course, in his appeal to authority I was getting the movie files for Screw Loose Change just to save him from himself, but nope he never was interested enough. Now I'm not going to lie, my stepbrother is an idiot to begin with, but I find it baffling how many people fall into this ridiculious movement. Maybe I should make up something ridiculious and say everything to destroy this made up thing was experimental so you can't look at the standardize procedure to debunk it. Hell, I could make a lot of money off of people's stupidity. But I choose not to because I'm an authentic truther unlike those wannabes over at Loose Change. I just thought I'd share this little tidbit to people and vent my frustration of another's lack of understanding of basic physical laws.

22nd October 2007, 07:54 PM	#2
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: DC Posts: 571	Worked with the Air Force, eh? Cashier at the BX?
	__________________ "Killtown, your brain is like the four headed, man-eating haddock fish beast of Aberdeen." - Fr Ted @ LCF

22nd October 2007, 08:06 PM	#3
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 5,830	Sorry to hear that. Just keep hittin him with the facts. Thats pretty much the most you can do.
	__________________ Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken

22nd October 2007, 08:12 PM	#4
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life?
	__________________ Is there a God? Find the answer at The Official God FAQ.

22nd October 2007, 08:20 PM	#5
Reality Believer Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: So. Cal Posts: 720	Originally Posted by CurtC Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life? You have to seek the "Truth". It won't come to you. http://9-11.meetup.com/249/
	__________________ "Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

22nd October 2007, 08:35 PM	#6
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by CurtC Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life? same reason i cant either i guess i actually saw my first peice of evidence they exist off the internet today though, guy on the expressway had a "9/11 was an inside job" bumper sticker (right across from the ron paul sticker) and in case wondering, he didnt look old enough to vote, lol
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

22nd October 2007, 08:42 PM	#7
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Beat him like a redheaded stepbrother.
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

22nd October 2007, 09:05 PM	#8
Unsecured Coins Hoku-maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: in your macaronis. warming my feets Posts: 5,741	and if he doesn't have red hair, they make dyes for that
	__________________ *http://kcbastards.com/* "If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again

22nd October 2007, 09:07 PM	#9
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	My best friend has a life motto, gifted to him by his older brother: "Don't Be An Idiot!!" Single most useful bit of advice I've ever heard. I'd offer that to your stepbrother.
	__________________ "Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai VT VENIANT OMNES

22nd October 2007, 09:39 PM	#10
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	Originally Posted by CurtC Damn - why can't I ever meet a Truther in real life? I haven't met any Truthers in a while either, not since I've actually been researching the subject at least.
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________

22nd October 2007, 09:44 PM	#11
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258	The biggest reason I'm as well-versed as I am on the issue is because of my cousin, who fell into the same mental coma. Although he is susceptible to woo, it still shocked and sickened me how an otherwise intelligent person could become so impervious to reason, and be so quickly and completely convinced of absolute nonsense. I battered him for an entire weekend, we had some really frustrating moments, and recently he hinted that he was over it. Then he came up for the weekend, and after several beers, he somehow started in on certain points again, although he seemed less zealous as before. I am fascinated by the psychology of this and other similar woo beliefs, and have recently been making note of all the similarities among them. Is anyone familiar with good insights on the psychology and cultural aspects of conspiracies and other fringe beliefs? Right now, it's almost as if he knows on a base level that he's wrong, but still can't quite rid himself of it. I think this fills a deep psychological hole somehow, and is similar to losing your religion (for those who have). You know deep down that it makes no sense, but you keep hanging on. It takes time for it to happen, and there most likely isn't a single moment to define when it's over, you just eventually realize it's over. Come to think of it, his sudden and complete change to Truther was just like a religious conversion. I could be wrong, but I never am.
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258	Last edited by Btodd; 22nd October 2007 at 09:47 PM.

22nd October 2007, 10:03 PM	#12
Whack01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 199	I know the feeling, it's always sad to see somebody you actually care about fall into this stuff. I agree that most people who buy in to nonsensical ideas are just looking for something in life that they lack, be it purpose, pride, a sense of belonging or any of a myriad of other things. I can sympathize with the 911 truthers plight in that sense, but I'm afraid if anyone actually takes the "revolution" seriously and perpetuates domestic terrorism, sympathy is going to be in very short supply for those who do not immediately reject these theories.
Whack01 Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 199

23rd October 2007, 02:21 AM	#13
Alex C Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 108	Similar situation. Sister believes it cos she saw a 'documentary'. I just old her the steel didn't have to melt and left it at that. I've also heard college mates mouth off about they're little 'impossibilities' they learned from internet videos too. I just didn't bother joining that conversation, it wouldn't have gone anywhere... Not when you've got a college lecturer who worked his life as a photographer yet buys the moon landing was a hoax. Ignorance is the name of the game here in Britain it seems...
Alex C Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 108	Last edited by Alex C; 23rd October 2007 at 02:24 AM.

23rd October 2007, 03:51 AM	#14
buka001 Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sunny South Africa Posts: 205	My best friend emigrated to the US. Was chatting to him on msn the other day. He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere. I hit him with everything. Still kept his mind closed. I was quite shocked!! I incorrectly assumed he was pretty rational and logically minded.
	__________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war!

23rd October 2007, 04:45 AM	#15
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	The reason people know the angles that the planes came in at, is because they saw planes come in at that angle. Therefore planes can come in at that angle. There may be some restriction on how a commercial airline pilot, pilots a plane for a safe landing but these clearly do not apply to half trained terrorists intent on crashing. But facts aren't the reason your stepbrother believes. Facts won't change his opinion. I'd guess he enjoys the contoversy, it's a little way to rebel against authority.
	Last edited by Ocelot; 23rd October 2007 at 06:33 AM.

23rd October 2007, 05:46 AM	#16
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 7,031	try to convince your sister to divorce him. You don't want that idiot gene polluting your family's future gene pool. My condolences if they already have children.
	__________________ 911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude.

23rd October 2007, 05:51 AM	#17
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by A W Smith try to convince your sister to divorce him. You don't want that idiot gene polluting your family's future gene pool. My condolences if they already have children. Her sister married her step-brother? I didn't know they were Tasmanian...
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

23rd October 2007, 06:36 AM	#18
Gravy Downsitting Citizen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the argyle Posts: 17,136	Originally Posted by Btodd Is anyone familiar with good insights on the psychology and cultural aspects of conspiracies and other fringe beliefs? Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum. Michael Shermer: Why People Believe Weird Things Carl Sagan: The Demon-Haunted World : Science As a Candle in the Dark How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich
	__________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links

23rd October 2007, 06:45 AM	#19
NYCEMT86 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Slums of Brooklyn Posts: 1,058	AC911, I know how you feel. My best friend since childhood is a twoofer, but he won't go and protest since that interferes with his x-box time, I have invited him here many times, but he has refused. People will believe whatever they want, look at religion.
	__________________ I bringth the Amber lamps "The most beautiful four words in the common language is: I told you so." - Vidal

23rd October 2007, 09:26 AM	#20
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by Gravy Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum. Michael Shermer: Why People Believe Weird Things Carl Sagan: The Demon-Haunted World : Science As a Candle in the Dark How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich Great suggestions. The first two are a must. Haven't read the third--I'll have to check it out. I'd also recommend the following excellent titles: Irrationality by Stuart Sutherland Quirkology by Richard Wiseman
	__________________

23rd October 2007, 09:36 AM	#21
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,222	Originally Posted by buka001 He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere. Tell him that the cameras are all real time only. The cost and the amount of space needed to record and store the video on a daily basis would be prohibative.
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

23rd October 2007, 09:43 AM	#22
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Super Star Destroyer Executor Posts: 2,397	My boss believes in the 911 conspiracy. Called me a sheep when I expressed my dismay. I need a new job. :/

23rd October 2007, 10:22 AM	#23
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	Originally Posted by Shalamar My boss believes in the 911 conspiracy. Called me a sheep when I expressed my dismay. I need a new job. :/ A sheep...who questioned his boss???
	__________________

23rd October 2007, 10:27 AM	#24
Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Super Star Destroyer Executor Posts: 2,397	Originally Posted by chipmunk stew A sheep...who questioned his boss??? And yet.. He blindly believes in the twoofers. Who's the sheep?

23rd October 2007, 10:31 AM	#25
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 7,031	Originally Posted by Brainache Her sister married her step-brother? I didn't know they were Tasmanian... I dont know WHY I mistook the thread title as "brother in law"
	__________________ 911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude.

23rd October 2007, 11:56 AM	#26
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	I thought that traffic cameras pointed at traffic, but no, obviously some of them are watching the sky ... for aliens.

23rd October 2007, 12:02 PM	#27
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	My sister and her Fionce saw Loose Change, and began to "believe" the CT. I was lucky enough to have been talking to them at a Birthday party several days later. Lets just say when I was finished I had not only answered all the questions they had, but I had made them see how insane the theories really were/are. Don't give up ac911.... btodd and shalamar, welcome to the forum. TAM

23rd October 2007, 12:48 PM	#29
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 464	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate I thought that traffic cameras pointed at traffic, but no, obviously some of them are watching the sky ... for aliens. They do at least part of the view includes the sky at times. There are tourists who stand on the sidewalk in Waikiki in the field of vision of a Kalakaua Avenue traffic camera and call home to have friends see them in Waikiki.
fezzic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 464

23rd October 2007, 12:51 PM	#30
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258	Originally Posted by Gravy Welcome to the forums, Btodd. I highly recommend these books. The latest edition fo the Shermer book has a section titled "Why smart people believe weird things." You'll also find much discussion of these topics in the General Skepticism subforum. Thanks Mark, I've read the first two, but will check out the third. And having you welcome me is an honor. I have seen your debates on Hardfire, and read much of your online work, and all of it is superb. If I ever make it to NYC, I would love to shake your hand. Keep up the good work!
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258

24th October 2007, 06:14 AM	#31
sts60 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,518	Originally Posted by buka001 My best friend emigrated to the US. Was chatting to him on msn the other day. He lives in Washington and now he firmly believes there is a conspiracy, because there are hundreds of traffic cameras and other building camera's that should have captured the plane on its flightpath somewhere. I assume you mean Washington, DC. I live outside DC and have been there quite a bit, but we have a gazillion traffic cameras here as well. As Alferd_Packer pointed out, traffic cameras as a rule don't record video. Their job is to allow traffic controllers to survey road conditions and look at accidents in real time. Certainly, some cameras may have seen the AA77 crash. For example, the Virginia DOT Washington Blvd. at Pentagon/I-395 East camera (this worked in IE but not in Firefox) has a decent view of part of the Pentagon and nearby airspace. (I don't know when that camera was installed.) But there's no reason to expect any traffic camera to have recorded it.
sts60 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,518

24th October 2007, 07:34 AM	#32
Sabrina Wicked Lovely Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spinning through space Posts: 6,873	If you go by the views they show while checking traffic on NBC-4, there isn't one with a view of the Pentagon. Typically they show an area just past it on 395 where you hit the 14th Street Bridge or maybe in the vicinity of King Street, but that's before the Pentagon and doesn't have a view of the building itself. Now granted, I haven't watched the other local news channels to see if THEY show that area, but I know NBC doesn't.
	__________________ "Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is the right thing to do."-Justice Potter Stewart, US Supreme Court Justice 1915-1985 *Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons... for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.* *Sins are very desirable... as long as no one judges you for them.*

24th October 2007, 07:40 AM	#33
Jonnyclueless Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,360	I had a client who was convinced by the whole folding 20 dollar bill thing. If someone can be convinced because folding a bill can look like an image, I don't think there is much hope for them.

24th October 2007, 11:29 AM	#34
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,720	Originally Posted by Shalamar And yet.. He blindly believes in the twoofers. Who's the sheep? Better a sheep than a goat, blindly eating up any conspiracy garbage anyone throws at you.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein

24th October 2007, 03:06 PM	#35
anticonspiracy911 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 356	Originally Posted by Sabrina If you go by the views they show while checking traffic on NBC-4, there isn't one with a view of the Pentagon. Typically they show an area just past it on 395 where you hit the 14th Street Bridge or maybe in the vicinity of King Street, but that's before the Pentagon and doesn't have a view of the building itself. Now granted, I haven't watched the other local news channels to see if THEY show that area, but I know NBC doesn't. The traffic cameras here in Albany, NY never point at any of the buildings. The Cornith tower which is the most symbolic one of Albany is behind the camera view. So I find it unlikely that there are any that point at the Pentagon.

24th October 2007, 09:38 PM	#36
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	Bleehhhhh. This sort of thing doesn't matter to me. My friends and family are my friends and family no matter what. If they hold an opinion radically different from my own, we don't fight about it. The most that happens is we have a friendly debate that we both enjoy. Like my aunt. She's the biggest fundie Christian you'll ever meet, but we get along just fine. So don't worry. I assure you that your stepbrother is still your stepbrother. ...Unless of course, he's really one of the reptilian NWO disinfo agents. Hey, it happens.