"The Lost Book Of Nostradamus"

dudalb · 26th October 2007, 02:00 PM

This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus.
Well,that get ratings,I guess.
What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this.
I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show.
And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better.

Apology · 26th October 2007, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus.
Well,that get ratings,I guess.
What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this.
I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic"

ne or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show.
And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better.

There's a lost book? This sounds both interesting and duller than dust at the same time.

At one point in time I had fun getting older versions of Nostradamus and comparing the interpretations of the quatrains to the newer versions. Apparently there was supposed to be a great war around 1998---the coming of the apocalypse even. Also, certain quatrains were interpreted to be the first World Trade Center attack in 1993; of course, after the 2001 attack, the interpretations for the exact same quatrains were edited again to indicate that the 2001 attack was the the attack that Nostradamus mentioned. The part of the quatrain that made people think it had something to do with the World Trade Center? It referred to an apocalyptic attack on the "New City". Has to be New York, right?

Tirdun · 26th October 2007, 02:14 PM

They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again.

I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra.

Apology · 26th October 2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Tirdun

They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again.

I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra.

Well these must be Nostradamus' "good" predictions, which is why he hid them in another book. Or something.

Ersby · 26th October 2007, 02:24 PM

I used to be fascinated by Nostradamus. First, when I believed in all this stuff, and then again when I was a skeptic I was amazed how his "specific" predictions could change over time, according to recent events.

Like, Apology mentioned the quatrain that mentions the "new city" - before 9/11 that was linked to the airplane that exploded mid-air near NY some years ago (sorry, off the top of my I don't remember any details) and before then it was linked to the incident at Three Mile Island.

If you get a chance to buy a second hand copy of Nosty's work from even ten years ago, do so.

Denver · 26th October 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tirdun

They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again.

I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra.

From the History channel's web site:

In 1994, Italian journalist Enza Massa was at the Italian National Library in Rome when she stumbled upon an unusual find. It was a manuscript dating to 1629, titled: Nostradamus Vatinicia Code. Michel de Notredame, the author's name, was on the inside in indelible ink. The book contains cryptic and bizarre images along with over eighty watercolor paintings by the master visionary himself. Follow the investigative trail of how the manuscript was found in the archives and exactly how it got there. New insight is given into the life of Nostradamus and his relationship with Pope Urban VIII, who knew about this manuscript and in whose possession it was for many years.

dudalb · 26th October 2007, 02:47 PM

So they actually might have some new Woo from Nosty.
If they were to present an objective fact based approach this might be of some value,but they will trot out the usual suspects of True Beleivers,with one of two token skeptics.

slingblade · 26th October 2007, 03:29 PM

What's the history of "indelible ink?" Did such exist at the time? What's meant by "indelible?" Does that refer to ink that was created to be indelible, or is it an apellation we would give after the fact to any kind of ink, provided it has lasted for centuries and is still legible?

It was the first word in the blurb that caught my eye as possibly providing an inconsistency, and struck me as an odd emphasis, hence my questions.

ShowerComic · 26th October 2007, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Apology

There's a lost book? This sounds both interesting and duller than dust at the same time.

As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ?

Originally Posted by Apology

At one point in time I had fun getting older versions of Nostradamus and comparing the interpretations of the quatrains to the newer versions. Apparently there was supposed to be a great war around 1998---the coming of the apocalypse even.

I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here.

By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm

Gord_in_Toronto · 26th October 2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

What's the history of "indelible ink?" Did such exist at the time? What's meant by "indelible?" Does that refer to ink that was created to be indelible, or is it an apellation we would give after the fact to any kind of ink, provided it has lasted for centuries and is still legible?

It was the first word in the blurb that caught my eye as possibly providing an inconsistency, and struck me as an odd emphasis, hence my questions.

I wondered about the "indelible ink" phrase myself. Why mention it at all? Maybe this is supposed to prove that Slyvia Browne could not erase it in a later century and claim authorship?

slingblade · 26th October 2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

I wondered about the "indelible ink" phrase myself. Why mention it at all? Maybe this is supposed to prove that Slyvia Browne could not erase it in a later century and claim authorship?

That's what I was wondering: "Oh, of course it's authentic--this is indelible ink!"

And it could be. But it set off my woometer, a bit.

RecoveringYuppy · 26th October 2007, 07:42 PM

This 1981 documentary claimed New York would be destroyed in th 1990s by atomic weapons by an alliance of the Soviet Union with Arabs. Of course, the Soviet Union was gone shortly after 1981 and 9/11 would have been impossible if NY no longer existed.

fuelair · 26th October 2007, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus.
Well,that get ratings,I guess.
What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this.
I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show.
And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better.

And, after several years of that kind of sludge on those two theoretical beacons of learning and education, you are surprised???!!!

Apology · 26th October 2007, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by ShowerComic

As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ?

I don't know, I just know they keep reworking the interpretation of the "New City" quatrain to fit the circumstances. It's a pretty typical meaningless Nostradamus quatrain and I find it entirely unconvincing as a prediction for either WTC bombing:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Earthshaking fire from the center of the earth will cause tremors around the New City. Two great rocks will war for a long time, then Arethusa will redden a new river.

My copy says "New City" is New York because "Arethusa" is a cross between "Ares", the God of War, and "USA"

Of course the two great rocks that are warring are the twin towers, and Nostradamus didn't know how to describe our modern skyscrapers because he was from the 1500's even though he knew enough to make a clever anagram involving "USA"

It also bears pointing out that the earthshaking fire seems to have come from the sky, not the center of the earth, in the case of the 9/11 attack.

Now if you're saying somebody proved that a bunch of the previously known quatrains weren't really written by Nostradamus, then that's information I haven't heard before.

Originally Posted by ShowerComic

I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here.

By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm

Hahaha, I remember that too, but I was in Junior High and had forgotten why or how the world was supposed to end. Was the world supposed to explode or something? I just remember thinking it was dumb.

Aepervius · 27th October 2007, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by ShowerComic

As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ?

I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here.

By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm

15 is a bit short on the sauce.

How about a few hundreds ?

http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

ConspiRaider · 27th October 2007, 06:05 PM

Here is a sneak preview of The Ugliness:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/871299...min_sneak_pea/

When the woo History Channel does a 2-hour special on James Randi's book, The Mask of Nostradamus: That's when you know the corner has been turned on woo. For some reason I won't be holding my breath until that happens.

Kilik · 27th October 2007, 07:34 PM

yeah goddamn those corporate woos, doing anything for a buck

DRBUZZ0 · 27th October 2007, 07:50 PM

I just saw an ad for a show coming on the history channel tomorrow called :The lost book of nostrodamus" and they say that "he saved the biggest predictions for last"

I'm waiting for a chuckle on this, but I did a google search and some are taking this seriously because apparently the documentary will make passages public which had not before been published.

I've heard the bull before about his writings being cryptic because he saw the future but tried to describe it using terms which he understood. I'm looking forward to a chuckle on this one because as I've mentioned before I do not know him ever saying anything like "There's a german guy... really angry type.. yelling a lot with a small square mustasch and a pin-wheel like thingy on his arm and everyone extends their right arm at him"

or for that matter "people are all traveling in carts which have no apparent means of being propelled and have some mechanism which is located under a removable panel on the front. They are controled by turning a wheel. Also people seem to talk frequently into some sort of device which makes sounds and illuminates and periodically."

nope... if he had tried he could describe it... but he wrote cryptic quatrains because he was making it all up...

Kilik · 27th October 2007, 07:51 PM

I think he gave some specific dates at times

This thread has the same title as the other one though.......

Skeptic Ginger · 27th October 2007, 07:54 PM

Until the mods combine the threads (if need be) here is a link to the other thread.

Skeptic Ginger · 27th October 2007, 07:58 PM

On that show which used to investigate the location of historical relics people would request be found, I sent in asking them to find the medallion that was supposedly found in Nostradamus' coffin with the date (or year) on it the grave robbers dug up the grave. I never heard back.

I guess it was a "plaque" rather than a medallion and it either said 1700, 1791 or 1793 depending on which version of the myth you prefer. The Straight Dope has one of the few skeptical discussions of the myth. There are countless versions of the story on web sites and in books without even so much as a curious question of where the evidence is for the story and curiosity as to the location of the plaque. If there was such a plaque why isn't it famous with its location known? But more importantly, why isn't anyone who hears or repeats the story wondering where the plaque is or even what historical record is there of the event?

DRBUZZ0 · 27th October 2007, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus.
Well,that get ratings,I guess.
What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this.
I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show.
And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better.

Well, networks are driven by ratings - this has been brought up before. However I don't think that precludes them from not pushing such BS. It's supply and demand. Hence, you and I as the consumer do the demanding and they will supply. Obviously I no one person represents the whole public, but enough combined...

In any case, the only way you can really "demand" from a TV network is to call or write an e-mail. Unless you're a Neilson family you dont *directly* count, hence: I have been known to contact them in the past.

I doubt I make much difference, but if everyone here did it might...

sophia8 · 28th October 2007, 03:19 AM

Wikipedia has a page on this "lost" manuscript:

Quote:

A library card, filled out by Carthusian [2] fathers, that was attached to the manuscript states that the images belonged to the French seer Nostradamus[3] (1503-1566).

Those images look remarkably fresh for 500-year old watercolours. And ya gotta believe Carthusian monks - would they deliberately write a lie, on a library card?

brodski · 28th October 2007, 04:16 AM

I've merged these two threads, and added some tags.

DRBUZZ0 · 28th October 2007, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by sophia8

Wikipedia has a page on this "lost" manuscript:
Those images look remarkably fresh for 500-year old watercolours. And ya gotta believe Carthusian monks - would they deliberately write a lie, on a library card?

Of course they look new. They were probably painted with long-lasting non degrading paints and material. Things like titanium dioxide bases and synthetic pigments and such. Obviously this is proof that he could see into the future, because that is where he got the formulas for them from.

See... you can turn anything into proof once you're willing to think outside the box and think stupid. People don't realize how liberating it can be idea wise when you start focusing on stupid, then the ideas just start flowing...

sophia8 · 28th October 2007, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by ShowerComic

As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ?

Yes

Apology · 28th October 2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by sophia8

Yes

WOW I hadn't heard anything about this; I always saw the "New City" quatrain that I posted earlier used to mean 9/11 and never saw this entirely made-up quatrain. Thank you for posting this!

charlie1 · 28th October 2007, 12:55 PM

I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think?

Skeptic Ginger · 28th October 2007, 03:52 PM

There are a few pages posted on Amazon from a book written about this book.

Nostradamus, The Lost Manuscript

It was published in 1998. Apparently this isn't so 'new' after all.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th October 2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Apology

WOW I hadn't heard anything about this; I always saw the "New City" quatrain that I posted earlier used to mean 9/11 and never saw this entirely made-up quatrain. Thank you for posting this!

The following is a useful site for checking incredible claims:

NOSTRADAMUS SEARCH ENGINE

If a prediction sounds too accurate to be true, it probably isn't.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th October 2007, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by charlie1

I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think?

Trying to start a new urban legend are you?

Welcome to the forum.

technoextreme · 28th October 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Like, Apology mentioned the quatrain that mentions the "new city" - before 9/11 that was linked to the airplane that exploded mid-air near NY some years ago (sorry, off the top of my I don't remember any details) and before then it was linked to the incident at Three Mile Island.

TWA flight 800.

DRBUZZ0 · 28th October 2007, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by charlie1

I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think?

OH CRAP! I knew I shouldn't have sold all the stuff I had accumulated in my bunker after Y2K turned out to be a bust!

Looks like I have to start stocking up again...

Apology · 28th October 2007, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

The following is a useful site for checking incredible claims:

NOSTRADAMUS SEARCH ENGINE

If a prediction sounds too accurate to be true, it probably isn't.

Yah true, if I had seen the "metal bird" quote before I would have known instantly that Nostradamus didn't write it because it's much too specific

Starthinker · 28th October 2007, 06:48 PM

I'm watching this now. Like they didn't have towers that caught fire in the 1500's. A single burning stone tower that looks like 3 storeys tall is supposed to be the Twin Towers? What a stretch.

Gryphus-1 · 28th October 2007, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Starthinker

I'm watching this now. Like they didn't have towers that caught fire in the 1500's. A single burning stone tower that looks like 3 storeys tall is supposed to be the Twin Towers? What a stretch.

Not to mention the fact for it to truly be an illustration representing 9/11 there should be two towers.

Skeptical Greg · 28th October 2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

.....

If a prediction sounds too accurate to be true, it probably isn't.

O.K., I've got to chew on that a while..

It may be sig material if someone else doesn't grab it first ...

Denver · 28th October 2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by charlie1

I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think?

You called it.

The guy at the end of the program was showing how that is just what one of the new pictures says.

Starthinker · 28th October 2007, 07:58 PM

Okay, I took a soak in the tub so missed a chunk of the middle, but now they are saying it's proven it wasn't even his writing. But, they also say it's still him and it's just a handwritten copy. And omg, they just threw out the 2012 of being the end of mankind. There is too much wrong here to even go into. They are stretching so much it's not even funny. Sad part is, the masses will eat this stuff up.

ETA: Denver beat me by a minute!

hipparchia · 29th October 2007, 02:29 AM

Salon has a story on the prophecies. Five years and counting.

26th October 2007, 02:00 PM	#1
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,782	[merged]"The Lost Book Of Nostradamus" This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus. Well,that get ratings,I guess. What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this. I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show. And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better.
	Last edited by brodski; 28th October 2007 at 04:18 AM. Reason: Merging thread

26th October 2007, 02:14 PM	#2
Apology Reader's of the Boden Codex Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,578	Originally Posted by dudalb This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus. Well,that get ratings,I guess. What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this. I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic"ne or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show. And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better. There's a lost book? This sounds both interesting and duller than dust at the same time. At one point in time I had fun getting older versions of Nostradamus and comparing the interpretations of the quatrains to the newer versions. Apparently there was supposed to be a great war around 1998---the coming of the apocalypse even. Also, certain quatrains were interpreted to be the first World Trade Center attack in 1993; of course, after the 2001 attack, the interpretations for the exact same quatrains were edited again to indicate that the 2001 attack was the the attack that Nostradamus mentioned. The part of the quatrain that made people think it had something to do with the World Trade Center? It referred to an apocalyptic attack on the "New City". Has to be New York, right?

26th October 2007, 02:14 PM	#3
Tirdun Muse Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Near DC, in an underground NWO bunker Posts: 637	They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again. I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra.
	__________________ The rain has a such a lovely sound to those who're six feet underground The leaves will bury every year and no one knows I'm gone -Tom Waits May You Never Thirst, Slàinte!

26th October 2007, 02:24 PM	#5
Ersby Fortean Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 1,837	I used to be fascinated by Nostradamus. First, when I believed in all this stuff, and then again when I was a skeptic I was amazed how his "specific" predictions could change over time, according to recent events. Like, Apology mentioned the quatrain that mentions the "new city" - before 9/11 that was linked to the airplane that exploded mid-air near NY some years ago (sorry, off the top of my I don't remember any details) and before then it was linked to the incident at Three Mile Island. If you get a chance to buy a second hand copy of Nosty's work from even ten years ago, do so.
	__________________ "Once a man admits complete and unshakeable faith in his own integrity, he is in an excellent frame of mind to be approached by con men." David W. Maurer, "The Big Con" Updated: History of Psi in the Ganzfeld 1974-2010

26th October 2007, 03:29 PM	#8
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	What's the history of "indelible ink?" Did such exist at the time? What's meant by "indelible?" Does that refer to ink that was created to be indelible, or is it an apellation we would give after the fact to any kind of ink, provided it has lasted for centuries and is still legible? It was the first word in the blurb that caught my eye as possibly providing an inconsistency, and struck me as an odd emphasis, hence my questions.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

26th October 2007, 02:15 PM	#4
Apology Reader's of the Boden Codex Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,578	Originally Posted by Tirdun They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again. I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra. Well these must be Nostradamus' "good" predictions, which is why he hid them in another book. Or something.

26th October 2007, 02:26 PM	#6
Denver Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 6,594	Originally Posted by Tirdun They always seem to use the same cast of supporters, I wonder if [H] will trot them out again. I might tune in long enough to find out where this book has been hiding. It's not like we don't have enough vague predictions from old Nostra. From the History channel's web site: In 1994, Italian journalist Enza Massa was at the Italian National Library in Rome when she stumbled upon an unusual find. It was a manuscript dating to 1629, titled: Nostradamus Vatinicia Code. Michel de Notredame, the author's name, was on the inside in indelible ink. The book contains cryptic and bizarre images along with over eighty watercolor paintings by the master visionary himself. Follow the investigative trail of how the manuscript was found in the archives and exactly how it got there. New insight is given into the life of Nostradamus and his relationship with Pope Urban VIII, who knew about this manuscript and in whose possession it was for many years.

26th October 2007, 02:47 PM	#7
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,782	So they actually might have some new Woo from Nosty. If they were to present an objective fact based approach this might be of some value,but they will trot out the usual suspects of True Beleivers,with one of two token skeptics.

26th October 2007, 06:13 PM	#9
ShowerComic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 393	Originally Posted by Apology There's a lost book? This sounds both interesting and duller than dust at the same time. As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ? Originally Posted by Apology At one point in time I had fun getting older versions of Nostradamus and comparing the interpretations of the quatrains to the newer versions. Apparently there was supposed to be a great war around 1998---the coming of the apocalypse even. I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here. By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here. http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm
	__________________

26th October 2007, 07:20 PM	#10
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,409	Originally Posted by slingblade What's the history of "indelible ink?" Did such exist at the time? What's meant by "indelible?" Does that refer to ink that was created to be indelible, or is it an apellation we would give after the fact to any kind of ink, provided it has lasted for centuries and is still legible? It was the first word in the blurb that caught my eye as possibly providing an inconsistency, and struck me as an odd emphasis, hence my questions. I wondered about the "indelible ink" phrase myself. Why mention it at all? Maybe this is supposed to prove that Slyvia Browne could not erase it in a later century and claim authorship?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

26th October 2007, 07:30 PM	#11
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto I wondered about the "indelible ink" phrase myself. Why mention it at all? Maybe this is supposed to prove that Slyvia Browne could not erase it in a later century and claim authorship? That's what I was wondering: "Oh, of course it's authentic--this is indelible ink!" And it could be. But it set off my woometer, a bit.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642

26th October 2007, 07:42 PM	#12
RecoveringYuppy Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,840	This 1981 documentary claimed New York would be destroyed in th 1990s by atomic weapons by an alliance of the Soviet Union with Arabs. Of course, the Soviet Union was gone shortly after 1981 and 9/11 would have been impossible if NY no longer existed.
	__________________ REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

26th October 2007, 09:32 PM	#13
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by dudalb This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus. Well,that get ratings,I guess. What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this. I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show. And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better. And, after several years of that kind of sludge on those two theoretical beacons of learning and education, you are surprised???!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881

26th October 2007, 11:57 PM	#14
Apology Reader's of the Boden Codex Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,578	Originally Posted by ShowerComic As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ? I don't know, I just know they keep reworking the interpretation of the "New City" quatrain to fit the circumstances. It's a pretty typical meaningless Nostradamus quatrain and I find it entirely unconvincing as a prediction for either WTC bombing: Originally Posted by Nostradamus Earthshaking fire from the center of the earth will cause tremors around the New City. Two great rocks will war for a long time, then Arethusa will redden a new river. My copy says "New City" is New York because "Arethusa" is a cross between "Ares", the God of War, and "USA" Of course the two great rocks that are warring are the twin towers, and Nostradamus didn't know how to describe our modern skyscrapers because he was from the 1500's even though he knew enough to make a clever anagram involving "USA" It also bears pointing out that the earthshaking fire seems to have come from the sky, not the center of the earth, in the case of the 9/11 attack. Now if you're saying somebody proved that a bunch of the previously known quatrains weren't really written by Nostradamus, then that's information I haven't heard before. Originally Posted by ShowerComic I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here. By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here. http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm Hahaha, I remember that too, but I was in Junior High and had forgotten why or how the world was supposed to end. Was the world supposed to explode or something? I just remember thinking it was dumb.

27th October 2007, 02:13 AM	#15
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,729	15 only Originally Posted by ShowerComic As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ? I remember being in the lunch room, in high school sometime in the early 80's, when according to some ancient prediction the world was supposed to end. -- i.e @ 12:37 PM EST that day, and counting down to the second. - And everyone jokingly going oh well, we're still here. By the way, regarding the End Of the World - a list of failed prophesies can be found here. http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl1.htm 15 is a bit short on the sauce. How about a few hundreds ? http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life.

27th October 2007, 06:05 PM	#16
ConspiRaider Writer of Nothingnesses Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11,169	Here is a sneak preview of The Ugliness: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/871299...min_sneak_pea/ When the woo History Channel does a 2-hour special on James Randi's book, The Mask of Nostradamus: That's when you know the corner has been turned on woo. For some reason I won't be holding my breath until that happens.
	Last edited by ConspiRaider; 27th October 2007 at 06:54 PM.

27th October 2007, 07:34 PM	#17
Kilik Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,177	yeah goddamn those corporate woos, doing anything for a buck
Kilik Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,177

27th October 2007, 07:50 PM	#18
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	"lost book of nostradamus" I just saw an ad for a show coming on the history channel tomorrow called :The lost book of nostrodamus" and they say that "he saved the biggest predictions for last" I'm waiting for a chuckle on this, but I did a google search and some are taking this seriously because apparently the documentary will make passages public which had not before been published. I've heard the bull before about his writings being cryptic because he saw the future but tried to describe it using terms which he understood. I'm looking forward to a chuckle on this one because as I've mentioned before I do not know him ever saying anything like "There's a german guy... really angry type.. yelling a lot with a small square mustasch and a pin-wheel like thingy on his arm and everyone extends their right arm at him" or for that matter "people are all traveling in carts which have no apparent means of being propelled and have some mechanism which is located under a removable panel on the front. They are controled by turning a wheel. Also people seem to talk frequently into some sort of device which makes sounds and illuminates and periodically." nope... if he had tried he could describe it... but he wrote cryptic quatrains because he was making it all up...

27th October 2007, 07:51 PM	#19
Kilik Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,177	I think he gave some specific dates at times This thread has the same title as the other one though.......
Kilik Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,177

27th October 2007, 07:54 PM	#20
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,489	Until the mods combine the threads (if need be) here is a link to the other thread.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

27th October 2007, 07:58 PM	#21
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,489	On that show which used to investigate the location of historical relics people would request be found, I sent in asking them to find the medallion that was supposedly found in Nostradamus' coffin with the date (or year) on it the grave robbers dug up the grave. I never heard back. I guess it was a "plaque" rather than a medallion and it either said 1700, 1791 or 1793 depending on which version of the myth you prefer. The Straight Dope has one of the few skeptical discussions of the myth. There are countless versions of the story on web sites and in books without even so much as a curious question of where the evidence is for the story and curiosity as to the location of the plaque. If there was such a plaque why isn't it famous with its location known? But more importantly, why isn't anyone who hears or repeats the story wondering where the plaque is or even what historical record is there of the event?
	__________________ (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.) Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 27th October 2007 at 08:15 PM.*

27th October 2007, 10:11 PM	#22
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	Originally Posted by dudalb This premiers on the History Channel Sunday Night and it looks as though more woo is on it way.If it is anything like the other History Channel shows on Nostradamus,it will be heavily pro Nostadamus. Well,that get ratings,I guess. What frustrates me is that THC can do something as good as their special which debunked 9/11 Conspiracy theories,and then lose whatever credibility they gained with crap like this. I like the way these kind of shows have the "token skeptic": one or two non beleivers in Nostradamus,and then a dozen or so beleivers,and then claim they are a "balanced" show. And other "documentary" networks "The Discovery Channel",etc are no better. Well, networks are driven by ratings - this has been brought up before. However I don't think that precludes them from not pushing such BS. It's supply and demand. Hence, you and I as the consumer do the demanding and they will supply. Obviously I no one person represents the whole public, but enough combined... In any case, the only way you can really "demand" from a TV network is to call or write an e-mail. Unless you're a Neilson family you dont directly count, hence: I have been known to contact them in the past. I doubt I make much difference, but if everyone here did it might...

28th October 2007, 03:19 AM	#23
sophia8 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the dark, dark forest.... Posts: 2,251	Wikipedia has a page on this "lost" manuscript: Quote: A library card, filled out by Carthusian [2] fathers, that was attached to the manuscript states that the images belonged to the French seer Nostradamus[3] (1503-1566). Those images look remarkably fresh for 500-year old watercolours. And ya gotta believe Carthusian monks - would they deliberately write a lie, on a library card?
	__________________ "Nature is floods and famines and earthquakes and viruses and little blue-footed booby babies getting their brains pecked out by their stronger siblings! ....Nature doesn't care about me, or about anybody in particular - nature can be terrifying! Why do they even put words like 'natural' on products like shampoo, like it's automatically a good thing? I mean, sulfuric acid is natural!" -Julia Sweeney Last edited by sophia8; 28th October 2007 at 03:24 AM.

28th October 2007, 04:16 AM	#24
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,064	I've merged these two threads, and added some tags.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,064

28th October 2007, 12:09 PM	#25
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	Originally Posted by sophia8 Wikipedia has a page on this "lost" manuscript: Those images look remarkably fresh for 500-year old watercolours. And ya gotta believe Carthusian monks - would they deliberately write a lie, on a library card? Of course they look new. They were probably painted with long-lasting non degrading paints and material. Things like titanium dioxide bases and synthetic pigments and such. Obviously this is proof that he could see into the future, because that is where he got the formulas for them from. See... you can turn anything into proof once you're willing to think outside the box and think stupid. People don't realize how liberating it can be idea wise when you start focusing on stupid, then the ideas just start flowing...

28th October 2007, 12:28 PM	#26
sophia8 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the dark, dark forest.... Posts: 2,251	Originally Posted by ShowerComic As I recall, wasn't the 9/11 Twin-Towers prophesy of Nostradamous a known fake quatrain ? Yes
	__________________ "Nature is floods and famines and earthquakes and viruses and little blue-footed booby babies getting their brains pecked out by their stronger siblings! ....Nature doesn't care about me, or about anybody in particular - nature can be terrifying! Why do they even put words like 'natural' on products like shampoo, like it's automatically a good thing? I mean, sulfuric acid is natural!" -Julia Sweeney

28th October 2007, 12:46 PM	#27
Apology Reader's of the Boden Codex Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,578	Originally Posted by sophia8 Yes WOW I hadn't heard anything about this; I always saw the "New City" quatrain that I posted earlier used to mean 9/11 and never saw this entirely made-up quatrain. Thank you for posting this!

28th October 2007, 12:55 PM	#28
charlie1 New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4	I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think?
charlie1 New Blood Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4

28th October 2007, 03:52 PM	#29
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,489	There are a few pages posted on Amazon from a book written about this book. Nostradamus, The Lost Manuscript It was published in 1998. Apparently this isn't so 'new' after all.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

28th October 2007, 04:00 PM	#30
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,489	Originally Posted by Apology WOW I hadn't heard anything about this; I always saw the "New City" quatrain that I posted earlier used to mean 9/11 and never saw this entirely made-up quatrain. Thank you for posting this! The following is a useful site for checking incredible claims: NOSTRADAMUS SEARCH ENGINE If a prediction sounds too accurate to be true, it probably isn't.
	__________________ (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.) Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 28th October 2007 at 04:02 PM.*

28th October 2007, 04:03 PM	#31
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,489	Originally Posted by charlie1 I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think? Trying to start a new urban legend are you? Welcome to the forum.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

28th October 2007, 04:49 PM	#32
technoextreme Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,786	Quote: Like, Apology mentioned the quatrain that mentions the "new city" - before 9/11 that was linked to the airplane that exploded mid-air near NY some years ago (sorry, off the top of my I don't remember any details) and before then it was linked to the incident at Three Mile Island. TWA flight 800.

28th October 2007, 05:12 PM	#33
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	Originally Posted by charlie1 I think this new book is supposed to say he predicts the end of the world in 2012-the same as the Mayan calendar, I think? OH CRAP! I knew I shouldn't have sold all the stuff I had accumulated in my bunker after Y2K turned out to be a bust! Looks like I have to start stocking up again...

28th October 2007, 06:43 PM	#34
Apology Reader's of the Boden Codex Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,578	Originally Posted by skeptigirl The following is a useful site for checking incredible claims: NOSTRADAMUS SEARCH ENGINE If a prediction sounds too accurate to be true, it probably isn't. Yah true, if I had seen the "metal bird" quote before I would have known instantly that Nostradamus didn't write it because it's much too specific

28th October 2007, 06:48 PM	#35
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	I'm watching this now. Like they didn't have towers that caught fire in the 1500's. A single burning stone tower that looks like 3 storeys tall is supposed to be the Twin Towers? What a stretch.
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.