Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible? - Page 3

Cleon · 30th October 2007, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I once read where Billy Graham believes we will do heavenly work on other planets in the afterlife.

That sounds very Mormon...

wollery · 30th October 2007, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

"Dr." Carl Baugh's claims are about as well thought out as Velikovsky's.

That bad?

Originally Posted by linusrichard

Number of stars:
Genesis 22:17
"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies"
(So... a lot? There's no way ancient people could have known there were a lot of stars without divine guidance? When exactly did humans master the scientific art of "looking up"?)

More to the point - if we were to be multiplied "as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore" we'd take up far more space than is actually available on the planet!

The_Animus · 30th October 2007, 06:00 PM

DOC how is it you have been here so long and posted so many times without learning anything? Please for the benefit of yourself, and those you talk to, read up on the basics of critical thinking, logic, skepticism, and fallacies.

I guess you can't teach ALL old dogs new tricks.

Also God does not take the waters from earth and make them rain down from the heavens. God doesn't do anything. It's a natural scientific principal that has nothing to do with God.

bokonon · 30th October 2007, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John.

______

And I remember reading something about George Washington saying to not bury his body for several days to make sure he was dead.

So maybe George Washington thought he was half a pair of prophets?

People from every nation could watch an event if a couple of prophets dropped dead on the floor of the General Assembly of the United Nations, and
bioterrorism was suspected, resulting in a quarantine, and on the third day the delegate from Haiti remembered he had some zombie dust in his wallet. Are you sure that isn't what the Bible is predicting? Doesn't it say people from every nation, rather than people in every nation? Maybe it's a Siggraph convention.

Hokulele · 30th October 2007, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television.

Heh, and the passages just before that predict the invention of Tabasco sauce (the lines where the prophets are breathing fire out of their mouths). Yeah, you really can read anything into the bible.

shadron · 30th October 2007, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by H3LL

In the DOC's link, "Dr" Henry Morris (is this idiot you DOC?) does not provide links to his scripture, nor does he quote them.

I presume this is THE Henry Morris, PhD, deceased (not DOC, I presume), past president of the Institute for Creation Research (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022801716.html) and "Darwin of the creationist movement". Henry was a hydraulic engineer of distinction with standard hydraulics texts to his credit that are used to this day. Unfortunately, he decided to apply his knowledge to the Great Flood, and never looked back. Reputedly a very nice fellow to know, as is Philip Johnson, the founder of ID.

Incidently, NOVA has done a 90 minute program on ID including a re-enactment of the Delaware trial; it ought to be a hum-dinger, as anyone who has read the transcript of the trial might anticipate. They have prequel matter about it (including an interview with Philips) at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html, and the program will be viewable after Nov 14.

Gregory · 30th October 2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Source of Energy for Earth

Quote:

His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

...eh?

Quote:

Atomic Disintegration

Quote:

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness...

...are you serious?

Fidelio · 31st October 2007, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

...DOC stuff deleted...

Incidently, NOVA has done a 90 minute program on ID including a re-enactment of the Delaware trial; it ought to be a hum-dinger, as anyone who has read the transcript of the trial might anticipate. They have prequel matter about it (including an interview with Philips) at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html, and the program will be viewable after Nov 14.

Friend, if you have ever thought about starting a thread the above would be an excellent starting point. (See my sig)

Dr Adequate · 31st October 2007, 03:46 AM

Hi, DOC.

Short answer: NO.

Long answer NO, you halfwitted delusional pitiful lunatic, now would you please try to get in touch with the real world, y'know, the one that exists and that you actually live in?

Dr Adequate · 31st October 2007, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by wollery

More to the point - if we were to be multiplied "as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore" we'd take up far more space than is actually available on the planet!

But surely that is your Sekrit Jooish Plan?

H3LL · 31st October 2007, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Long answer NO, you halfwitted delusional pitiful lunatic, now would you please try to get in touch with the real world, y'know, the one that exists and that you actually live in?

I wish you would speak your mind and stop beating around the bush.

Tut!

Ryan O'Dine · 31st October 2007, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by JoeEllison

Telling a child that he or she will burn in hell for all of eternity seems pretty coercive to me.

Mere coercion isn't enough. Brainwashing requires the "unusual" or "extraordinary". Hell is pretty commonplace.

But this is a derail. I'll let you have the last word, if you want it.

Ashles · 31st October 2007, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John.

That's not a prediction any more than if you take the passage from
1 Thessalonians 4:14

Quote:

We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

And then in a million years scientists invent an anti-gravity machine and some lunatic claims that because Jesus "rose" that the Bible predicted that.
And because they "fell asleep" it predicted hypnosis and anaesthesia and insomnia medications. And because they fell asleep "in him" the Bible predicted the film Fantastic Voyage.

Taking words stupidly out of context may be fun, but it has no bearing on reality. Sorry.

Ocelot · 31st October 2007, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

Here's a site that claims the Bible taught the Big Bang first?

Go to Big Bang - The Bible taught it first (Spanish Edition)

http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff...aught_it_first

Interesting though to be fair it does appear to be a list of bible quotations selectively chosen as suitable candidates for retrofitting into current scientific understanding rather than an actual teaching of the big bang.

I don't remember any theologians suggesting an expanding universe at any point in the 6000 years prior to Einsteins theory of General Relativity. Though George Lemaitre was indeed a Jesuit Priest he was also a scientist and it appears that his inspiration for his theories was not scripture but relativistic theory.

So on the whole, no the bible is very clear on creation, - God did it in 24hours some time in the last 10,000 years. Various references to God "steching out the universe" even if I could be bothered to cross reference them to see if they're not just creative translations don't mean that the big bang was predicted from biblical sources. Certanly nothing in there is rigorous enought to be of any scientific value even if the bible could be considered a reliable source.

Ocelot · 31st October 2007, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John.

______

And I remember reading something about George Washington saying to not bury his body for several days to make sure he was dead.

Erm if we met a Picadilly circus and I pulled youir trousers down people from all over the world would see it. People from all over the known world gathered in large metropolises in the time of John, This might equally be interpretted as talking about navigation, jet travel, the UN or the Internet or any number of unreal supernatual effects acceptable to those who can concieve of people living inside whales or floods that cover the entire world.

This only counts as a prediction for television of prior to Logi Baird's inventions Theologians were stating that the end times couldn't come about because the technology for these predictions hadn't been inveted yet. If theologians suggested that cathode rays, radio broadcasts and satalite links were involve prior to these being known to science.

Tanstaafl · 31st October 2007, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

I definitely wouldn't say quite nicely. If there is a clear concise argument about a hoax bring it in.

You could always read it.

Carl Baugh was caught carving toes onto dinosaur footprints and trying to pass them off as human footprints. That's what's referred to as a "hoax".

Tanstaafl · 31st October 2007, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

But surely that is your Sekrit Jooish Plan?

Hah! Gotcha! You misspelled "seekrit"!

*Tanstaafl smiles smugly*

Alice Shortcake · 31st October 2007, 10:15 AM

I'll say this for DOC - he's thick-skinned.

Or just plain thick.

Zygar · 31st October 2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

That sounds very Mormon...

Well, a little Mormon. Mostly in that Mormons are the only major religious group that even mentions the possibility of life on other planets.

Garrette · 31st October 2007, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Zygar

Well, a little Mormon. Mostly in that Mormons are the only major religious group that even mentions the possibility of life on other planets.

Xenu, anyone?

Tanstaafl · 31st October 2007, 12:17 PM

No thanks, I have plenty of crazy already.

fuelair · 31st October 2007, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

So your willing to go on record that none of the almost 60 bible verses in this website is related to a science phenomenon or process.

http://www.creationevidence.org/scie...scripture.html

Are you being incompetant, or pretending incompetance here? The difference between your quotes and the actual science are total - the quotes indicate nothing approaching scientific reasoning, interpretation. To use one already picked over: 'rain come down, make Absolump wet'(not the specific phrase) is in no way equivalent to "Heat from the sun causes the surface water to gain more energy and allows the more active (energised) molecules to escape the surface and move into the atmosphere........and as the water molecules gather around the dust particle (condensing) the drop becomes larger until it reaches a mass sufficient to overcome air resistance from the atmosphere's winds and begins it's fall as a raindrop!"

fuelair · 31st October 2007, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Alice Shortcake

I'll say this for DOC - he's thick-skinned.

Or just plain thick.

The latter - but great at avoiding real answers to questions

quixotecoyote · 31st October 2007, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Tanstaafl

No thanks, I have plenty of crazy already.

Perhaps a skosh of Rael?

joobz · 31st October 2007, 03:33 PM

I would say that Heaven's Gate is as completely nuts, but...well you know.

Zygar · 31st October 2007, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Garrette

Xenu, anyone?

Sorry. I meant to say "Christian" in there, but whatever. It's entirely possible there are other counterexamples.

ETA: This is a thread about the Bible. So the above should have been obvious.

Garrette · 31st October 2007, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zygar

Sorry. I meant to say "Christian" in there, but whatever. It's entirely possible there are other counterexamples.

ETA: This is a thread about the Bible. So the above should have been obvious.

It was obvious. I was tongue-in-cheeking, not critiquing.

circuit_bent · 31st October 2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Perhaps a skosh of Rael?

I have to question why you single out Rael here. He's an atheist (and an anti-theist I'm quite sure) and has a great admiration of Science. He thinks that there is no afterlife and that it's up to us to make the best of our limited lives, and progress technologically for the sake of ourselves and future generations.

Maybe there's some parts of his beliefs that I'm unaware of that are plain nuts. Care to fill me in?

wollery · 31st October 2007, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by circuit_bent

I have to question why you single out Rael here. He's an atheist (and an anti-theist I'm quite sure) and has a great admiration of Science. He thinks that there is no afterlife and that it's up to us to make the best of our limited lives, and progress technologically for the sake of ourselves and future generations.

Maybe there's some parts of his beliefs that I'm unaware of that are plain nuts. Care to fill me in?

Let's see, he was abducted by aliens and instructed to tell humanity that they created us, and that we'd misinterpreted the bible, which is actually a message from them. They gave him full annotations to the bible, and told him to write a book. In a total of six hours. He has to achieve world peace and build an embassy in Jerusalem before they'll visit to meet with the world's leaders.

No, you're right, nothing nutty there at all.

Skeptic Ginger · 31st October 2007, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

So, to the question in the OP, "Is science getting closer to God and the Bible?":

There are really two answers:

1) No, it's the other way around: Now that science has found the real answers, bible scolars are desperately trying to reinterpret scripture to hang on.

2) Yes, science is getting closer to God and the Bible: Science is finding the truths that God and the Bible used to pretend to have.

Hans

This topic comes up on a regular basis. It's hard to say if people who started these myths made them up with the goal of tricking converts all for a good cause, or if they themselves were simply trying to make the Bible's round pegs fit into science's square holes.

For example there is a common claim the Bible describes the Earth as a "sphere". The actual passage refers to a circle and in no way presents some knowledge the people who wrote the Bible shouldn't have known if not divinely informed.

The Bible only contains the knowledge the people who wrote it would have had at the time. For one glaring example, the germ theory is totally absent and claims of things like avoiding pork had a medical reason because of trichinosis may sound good, but don't hold up to closer scrutiny. If that was the reason, then why not simply require pork be burnt before eaten? And why single out trichinosis when something as simple as hand washing would have prevented more disease by far. Or why not just eliminate the trichinosis if you are God, or make your followers immune?

It's all wishful thinking on believers' parts. One so badly wants the Bible to be true. But it isn't. And no amount of lipstick will fix it.

Ichneumonwasp · 1st November 2007, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by skeptigirl

It's all wishful thinking on believers' parts. One so badly wants the Bible to be true. But it isn't. And no amount of lipstick will fix it.

But a nice corset and fishnet stockings couldn't hurt.........

DOC · 1st November 2007, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain

" As big and muddled as the bible is, you can find support for almost anything, just by stretching a bit*.

When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!"

DOC · 1st November 2007, 11:37 AM

deleted

joobz · 1st November 2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!"

Not quite. It's more like, "Hey, everybody, look what that big muddled book, the bible, says here!"
But then again, I'm only assuming that's what an atheist would say.
I know it's what I would say, but that's not the same thing.

linusrichard · 1st November 2007, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!"

Could be because the Bible actually says the things we say it says, while it doesn't say the things you're saying it says.

Safe-Keeper · 1st November 2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

1) No, it's the other way around: Now that science has found the real answers, bible scolars are desperately trying to reinterpret scripture to hang on.

As they have for hundreds of years.

Quote:

When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything.

Wrong. When Christian fundies misinterpret things to suit their liking, atheists state that the Bible is big and etc. etc.'.

Come on, Revelations being a reference to a TV? That's not stretching?

DOC · 1st November 2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by shadron

I presume this is THE Henry Morris, PhD, deceased ... Henry was a hydraulic engineer of distinction with standard hydraulics texts to his credit that are used to this day. Unfortunately, he decided to apply his knowledge to the Great Flood...

It looks like this author of hydraulic texts still in use also applied his knowledge to a thorough examination of the Bible and its references to currently known scientific phenomenon and processes.

http://www.creationevidence.org/scie...scripture.html

Hourglassmemory · 1st November 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:

Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7

Just to claim that doesn't mean anything.
I recently tried to calculate what a divine day would mean. If you stick with divine days plants should appear in about 1.5 billion years.
If you stick with what we know from science, each divine day would have to change length. It doesn't make sense.

Hokulele · 1st November 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by DOC

It looks like this author of hydraulic texts still in use also applied his knowledge to a thorough examination of the Bible and its references to currently known scientific phenomenon and processes.

Appeal to Authority fallacy!

Foster Zygote · 1st November 2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tanstaafl

You could always read it.

Carl Baugh was caught carving toes onto dinosaur footprints and trying to pass them off as human footprints. That's what's referred to as a "hoax".

Others have tried such hoaxes as well. The obvious give away is that real impressions compress the layers of sediment beneath the imprint. Many fossil track ways are actually already eroded through the uppermost layers into the layers below, resulting in a less distinct impression. Simply carving into the rock results in no compression. The sediment is simply carved into like a miniature version of the Grand Canyon.

30th October 2007, 05:57 PM	#81
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,506	Originally Posted by DOC I once read where Billy Graham believes we will do heavenly work on other planets in the afterlife. That sounds very Mormon...
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

30th October 2007, 05:59 PM	#82
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! TLA Winner Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,308	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote "Dr." Carl Baugh's claims are about as well thought out as Velikovsky's. That bad? Originally Posted by linusrichard Number of stars: Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies" (So... a lot? There's no way ancient people could have known there were a lot of stars without divine guidance? When exactly did humans master the scientific art of "looking up"?) More to the point - if we were to be multiplied "as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore" we'd take up far more space than is actually available on the planet!
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

30th October 2007, 06:00 PM	#83
The_Animus Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 1,215	DOC how is it you have been here so long and posted so many times without learning anything? Please for the benefit of yourself, and those you talk to, read up on the basics of critical thinking, logic, skepticism, and fallacies. I guess you can't teach ALL old dogs new tricks. Also God does not take the waters from earth and make them rain down from the heavens. God doesn't do anything. It's a natural scientific principal that has nothing to do with God.
	__________________ Insults come when a person cannot think of an intelligent response.

30th October 2007, 06:06 PM	#84
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by DOC I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John. ______ And I remember reading something about George Washington saying to not bury his body for several days to make sure he was dead. So maybe George Washington thought he was half a pair of prophets? People from every nation could watch an event if a couple of prophets dropped dead on the floor of the General Assembly of the United Nations, and bioterrorism was suspected, resulting in a quarantine, and on the third day the delegate from Haiti remembered he had some zombie dust in his wallet. Are you sure that isn't what the Bible is predicting? Doesn't it say people from every nation, rather than people in every nation? Maybe it's a Siggraph convention.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444

30th October 2007, 06:13 PM	#85
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,265	Originally Posted by DOC I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. Heh, and the passages just before that predict the invention of Tabasco sauce (the lines where the prophets are breathing fire out of their mouths). Yeah, you really can read anything into the bible.
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

30th October 2007, 09:11 PM	#86
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,717	Originally Posted by H3LL In the DOC's link, "Dr" Henry Morris (is this idiot you DOC?) does not provide links to his scripture, nor does he quote them. I presume this is THE Henry Morris, PhD, deceased (not DOC, I presume), past president of the Institute for Creation Research (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022801716.html) and "Darwin of the creationist movement". Henry was a hydraulic engineer of distinction with standard hydraulics texts to his credit that are used to this day. Unfortunately, he decided to apply his knowledge to the Great Flood, and never looked back. Reputedly a very nice fellow to know, as is Philip Johnson, the founder of ID. Incidently, NOVA has done a 90 minute program on ID including a re-enactment of the Delaware trial; it ought to be a hum-dinger, as anyone who has read the transcript of the trial might anticipate. They have prequel matter about it (including an interview with Philips) at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html, and the program will be viewable after Nov 14.
	Last edited by shadron; 30th October 2007 at 09:15 PM.

30th October 2007, 09:48 PM	#87
Gregory Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 687	Quote: Source of Energy for Earth Quote: His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. ...eh? Quote: Atomic Disintegration Quote: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness... ...are you serious?
Gregory Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 687

31st October 2007, 12:58 AM	#88
Fidelio Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The island of Atlanta Posts: 554	Originally Posted by shadron ...DOC stuff deleted... Incidently, NOVA has done a 90 minute program on ID including a re-enactment of the Delaware trial; it ought to be a hum-dinger, as anyone who has read the transcript of the trial might anticipate. They have prequel matter about it (including an interview with Philips) at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html, and the program will be viewable after Nov 14. Friend, if you have ever thought about starting a thread the above would be an excellent starting point. (See my sig)
	__________________ "...not God exactly, just someone with the skill set necessary to create an entire working universe." -Jon Stewart-The Daily Show

31st October 2007, 03:46 AM	#89
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Hi, DOC. Short answer: NO. Long answer NO, you halfwitted delusional pitiful lunatic, now would you please try to get in touch with the real world, y'know, the one that exists and that you actually live in?

31st October 2007, 03:49 AM	#90
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Originally Posted by wollery More to the point - if we were to be multiplied "as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore" we'd take up far more space than is actually available on the planet! But surely that is your Sekrit Jooish Plan?

31st October 2007, 05:00 AM	#91
H3LL Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: (ləʊˈkeɪʃən) - n. 1. a site or position; situation. Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate Long answer NO, you halfwitted delusional pitiful lunatic, now would you please try to get in touch with the real world, y'know, the one that exists and that you actually live in? I wish you would speak your mind and stop beating around the bush. Tut!
	__________________ "I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it". - PTerry Top 10 Reasons Why I Procrastinate: 1.

31st October 2007, 05:47 AM	#92
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you’ll find me eventually Posts: 1,184	Originally Posted by JoeEllison Telling a child that he or she will burn in hell for all of eternity seems pretty coercive to me. Mere coercion isn't enough. Brainwashing requires the "unusual" or "extraordinary". Hell is pretty commonplace. But this is a derail. I'll let you have the last word, if you want it.
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

31st October 2007, 06:16 AM	#93
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	Originally Posted by DOC I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John. That's not a prediction any more than if you take the passage from 1 Thessalonians 4:14 Quote: We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. And then in a million years scientists invent an anti-gravity machine and some lunatic claims that because Jesus "rose" that the Bible predicted that. And because they "fell asleep" it predicted hypnosis and anaesthesia and insomnia medications. And because they fell asleep "in him" the Bible predicted the film Fantastic Voyage. Taking words stupidly out of context may be fun, but it has no bearing on reality. Sorry.
	__________________ With extraordinary few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. - Jeffrey Burton Russell No one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate - Ivars Peterson

31st October 2007, 06:30 AM	#94
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	Originally Posted by DOC Here's a site that claims the Bible taught the Big Bang first? Go to Big Bang - The Bible taught it first (Spanish Edition) http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff...aught_it_first Interesting though to be fair it does appear to be a list of bible quotations selectively chosen as suitable candidates for retrofitting into current scientific understanding rather than an actual teaching of the big bang. I don't remember any theologians suggesting an expanding universe at any point in the 6000 years prior to Einsteins theory of General Relativity. Though George Lemaitre was indeed a Jesuit Priest he was also a scientist and it appears that his inspiration for his theories was not scripture but relativistic theory. So on the whole, no the bible is very clear on creation, - God did it in 24hours some time in the last 10,000 years. Various references to God "steching out the universe" even if I could be bothered to cross reference them to see if they're not just creative translations don't mean that the big bang was predicted from biblical sources. Certanly nothing in there is rigorous enought to be of any scientific value even if the bible could be considered a reliable source.

31st October 2007, 06:48 AM	#95
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	Originally Posted by DOC I believe it certainly could predict Television because the only possible way people from all over the world could watch an event for 3 and a half days is by television. For example the pope's funeral and events that led up to it had almost non stop coverage for days on CNN. This would have been impossible at the time of the vision of John. ______ And I remember reading something about George Washington saying to not bury his body for several days to make sure he was dead. Erm if we met a Picadilly circus and I pulled youir trousers down people from all over the world would see it. People from all over the known world gathered in large metropolises in the time of John, This might equally be interpretted as talking about navigation, jet travel, the UN or the Internet or any number of unreal supernatual effects acceptable to those who can concieve of people living inside whales or floods that cover the entire world. This only counts as a prediction for television of prior to Logi Baird's inventions Theologians were stating that the end times couldn't come about because the technology for these predictions hadn't been inveted yet. If theologians suggested that cathode rays, radio broadcasts and satalite links were involve prior to these being known to science.
	Last edited by Ocelot; 31st October 2007 at 07:23 AM.

31st October 2007, 09:47 AM	#96
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by DOC I definitely wouldn't say quite nicely. If there is a clear concise argument about a hoax bring it in. You could always read it. Carl Baugh was caught carving toes onto dinosaur footprints and trying to pass them off as human footprints. That's what's referred to as a "hoax".
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

31st October 2007, 09:56 AM	#97
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Dr Adequate But surely that is your Sekrit Jooish Plan? Hah! Gotcha! You misspelled "seekrit"! Tanstaafl smiles smugly
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

31st October 2007, 10:15 AM	#98
Alice Shortcake Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: York, England Posts: 750	I'll say this for DOC - he's thick-skinned. Or just plain thick.

31st October 2007, 10:38 AM	#99
Zygar Lex Luthor's Evil Twin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,609	Originally Posted by Cleon That sounds very Mormon... Well, a little Mormon. Mostly in that Mormons are the only major religious group that even mentions the possibility of life on other planets.
	__________________ "Judge people. Judge them, Zygar. Pass judgment." -DrBuzz0 Visit my friends: http://skeptifem.blogspot.com/ http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com

31st October 2007, 12:03 PM	#100
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Originally Posted by Zygar Well, a little Mormon. Mostly in that Mormons are the only major religious group that even mentions the possibility of life on other planets. Xenu, anyone?
	__________________ My kids still love me.

31st October 2007, 12:17 PM	#101
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	No thanks, I have plenty of crazy already.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

31st October 2007, 02:55 PM	#102
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by DOC So your willing to go on record that none of the almost 60 bible verses in this website is related to a science phenomenon or process. http://www.creationevidence.org/scie...scripture.html Are you being incompetant, or pretending incompetance here? The difference between your quotes and the actual science are total - the quotes indicate nothing approaching scientific reasoning, interpretation. To use one already picked over: 'rain come down, make Absolump wet'(not the specific phrase) is in no way equivalent to "Heat from the sun causes the surface water to gain more energy and allows the more active (energised) molecules to escape the surface and move into the atmosphere........and as the water molecules gather around the dust particle (condensing) the drop becomes larger until it reaches a mass sufficient to overcome air resistance from the atmosphere's winds and begins it's fall as a raindrop!"
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881

31st October 2007, 02:57 PM	#103
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by Alice Shortcake I'll say this for DOC - he's thick-skinned. Or just plain thick. The latter - but great at avoiding real answers to questions
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881

31st October 2007, 03:01 PM	#104
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by Tanstaafl No thanks, I have plenty of crazy already. Perhaps a skosh of Rael?
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

31st October 2007, 03:33 PM	#105
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	I would say that Heaven's Gate is as completely nuts, but...well you know.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

31st October 2007, 05:40 PM	#106
Zygar Lex Luthor's Evil Twin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,609	Originally Posted by Garrette Xenu, anyone? Sorry. I meant to say "Christian" in there, but whatever. It's entirely possible there are other counterexamples. ETA: This is a thread about the Bible. So the above should have been obvious.
	__________________ "Judge people. Judge them, Zygar. Pass judgment." -DrBuzz0 Visit my friends: http://skeptifem.blogspot.com/ http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com

31st October 2007, 05:54 PM	#107
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Originally Posted by Zygar Sorry. I meant to say "Christian" in there, but whatever. It's entirely possible there are other counterexamples. ETA: This is a thread about the Bible. So the above should have been obvious. It was obvious. I was tongue-in-cheeking, not critiquing.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

31st October 2007, 06:26 PM	#108
circuit_bent Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 125	Originally Posted by quixotecoyote Perhaps a skosh of Rael? I have to question why you single out Rael here. He's an atheist (and an anti-theist I'm quite sure) and has a great admiration of Science. He thinks that there is no afterlife and that it's up to us to make the best of our limited lives, and progress technologically for the sake of ourselves and future generations. Maybe there's some parts of his beliefs that I'm unaware of that are plain nuts. Care to fill me in?
circuit_bent Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 125

31st October 2007, 09:41 PM	#109
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! TLA Winner Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,308	Originally Posted by circuit_bent I have to question why you single out Rael here. He's an atheist (and an anti-theist I'm quite sure) and has a great admiration of Science. He thinks that there is no afterlife and that it's up to us to make the best of our limited lives, and progress technologically for the sake of ourselves and future generations. Maybe there's some parts of his beliefs that I'm unaware of that are plain nuts. Care to fill me in? Let's see, he was abducted by aliens and instructed to tell humanity that they created us, and that we'd misinterpreted the bible, which is actually a message from them. They gave him full annotations to the bible, and told him to write a book. In a total of six hours. He has to achieve world peace and build an embassy in Jerusalem before they'll visit to meet with the world's leaders. No, you're right, nothing nutty there at all.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

31st October 2007, 10:06 PM	#110
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,513	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans So, to the question in the OP, "Is science getting closer to God and the Bible?": There are really two answers: 1) No, it's the other way around: Now that science has found the real answers, bible scolars are desperately trying to reinterpret scripture to hang on. 2) Yes, science is getting closer to God and the Bible: Science is finding the truths that God and the Bible used to pretend to have. Hans This topic comes up on a regular basis. It's hard to say if people who started these myths made them up with the goal of tricking converts all for a good cause, or if they themselves were simply trying to make the Bible's round pegs fit into science's square holes. For example there is a common claim the Bible describes the Earth as a "sphere". The actual passage refers to a circle and in no way presents some knowledge the people who wrote the Bible shouldn't have known if not divinely informed. The Bible only contains the knowledge the people who wrote it would have had at the time. For one glaring example, the germ theory is totally absent and claims of things like avoiding pork had a medical reason because of trichinosis may sound good, but don't hold up to closer scrutiny. If that was the reason, then why not simply require pork be burnt before eaten? And why single out trichinosis when something as simple as hand washing would have prevented more disease by far. Or why not just eliminate the trichinosis if you are God, or make your followers immune? It's all wishful thinking on believers' parts. One so badly wants the Bible to be true. But it isn't. And no amount of lipstick will fix it.
	__________________ (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.) Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 31st October 2007 at 10:09 PM.*

1st November 2007, 06:55 AM	#111
Ichneumonwasp Guest Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,221	Originally Posted by skeptigirl It's all wishful thinking on believers' parts. One so badly wants the Bible to be true. But it isn't. And no amount of lipstick will fix it. But a nice corset and fishnet stockings couldn't hurt.........
Ichneumonwasp Guest Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,221

1st November 2007, 11:22 AM	#112
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain " As big and muddled as the bible is, you can find support for almost anything, just by stretching a bit*. When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!"

1st November 2007, 11:37 AM	#113
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,741	deleted
	Last edited by DOC; 1st November 2007 at 11:44 AM.

1st November 2007, 11:52 AM	#114
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	Originally Posted by DOC When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!" Not quite. It's more like, "Hey, everybody, look what that big muddled book, the bible, says here!" But then again, I'm only assuming that's what an atheist would say. I know it's what I would say, but that's not the same thing.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

1st November 2007, 11:59 AM	#115
linusrichard Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lansing, Mich. Posts: 2,663	Originally Posted by DOC When Christians find things that support their case its "Oh, the bible is big and muddled and you can support anything. But when atheists find things its "Hey, everybody, look what the bible says here!" Could be because the Bible actually says the things we say it says, while it doesn't say the things you're saying it says.