The Greatest Fiascos of the 9-11 "Truth" Movement

Brainster · 2nd November 2007, 01:25 AM

I'm trying to gather together some information here; let's hear about some boneheaded mistakes, plans that fell disastrously apart, etc. No Stundies, no science experiments; I'm looking for places where the movement made an incredible mistake, not just an individual.

Some that I can think of off the top of my head:

1. The Scholars For 9-11 Truth. Jim Fetzer leverages himself into the position of spokesman for the patched elbow brigade and promptly reveals that he is a complete nut.

2. The Ham Sandwich Escapes Indictment. A Truther Grand Jury fails to indict anybody for 9-11 crimes, despite Jim Hoffman as the prosecutor and "expert" testimony from Steven Jones and Richard Gage.

3. Truther Burn. An artist proposes to demonstrate Steven Jones' imaginary diagonal thermite cutting devices at Burning Man. Money is raised. Artist decides not to go through with demonstration.

4. Holocaust Denier Running the Show. A Holocaust Denier was the conference director for an Arizona 9-11 Accountability confab attended by many of the movement's leading figures, even after they found out of his involvement.

5. Kennebunkport Bunk. After successfully pursuing an alliance with Cindy Sheehan and other peace movement leaders, Webster Tarpley turns on them and calls them "miserable human beings" when they deny signing a statement he had circulated. Cindy Sheehan has not made a statement in support of the "Truthers" since.

6. Jesus in the UK. The British Troofers anoint David Shayler as their leader, and Alex Jones gives him major face time in Terrorstorm. Shayler announces he's a no-planer and the son of God.

Plantfoam · 2nd November 2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

6. Jesus in the UK. The British Troofers anoint David Shayler as their leader, and Alex Jones gives him major face time in Terrorstorm. Shayler announces he's a no-planer and the son of God.

According the Prof. Jones, did Jesus visit the UK or the US first? I mean, he is obviously there right now because of the weak dollar.

MG1962 · 2nd November 2007, 01:46 AM

I feel the whole Loose Change final cut thing qualifies - It went from being bigger than Ben Hur to a few private screenings in Sweden

ref · 2nd November 2007, 01:50 AM

Does this qualify?

7. Kevin Barrett goes to arrest the alive hijacker in Morocco. Only when in Morocco he finds out, the guy he is looking for may not even be in Morocco. A couple of phone calls would have told him that.

It's interesting to see how the story evolves. Look how the tone changes.

Before: "Barrett voiced his outrage that such a brutal, ruthless terrorist has been allowed to commit mass murder and suicide—and walk away scot free. “Waleed al-Shehri, I’m coming to get you!” Barrett vowed. “I don’t know how you got out of that plane alive, but that was the last miraculous escape you’ll ever make. You’re coming back to the US in handcuffs with me to face charges of mass murder and terrorism.”

In Morocco: "I have spoken to a couple of fairly high-level people in the commercial aviation community in Casablanca, and so far nobody will confirm or deny that a Saudi pilot named Waleed al-Shehri ever lived or worked here. When I ask how I might obtain a list of pilots based in Casablanca, they tell me that no such list is obtainable.

The Information Officer at the US Embassy in Rabat, a pleasant fellow named David, told me today that he and all the other current Embassy personnel know nothing about the al-Shehri story, because none of them were in Morocco in 2001, because diplomatic service employees always rotate around the world every few years."

After: "The truth is, if I was not particularly disturbed, much less surprised, by my failure to find Waleed..."

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=80682

qarnos · 2nd November 2007, 01:54 AM

8. LC:FC is an even more watered-down version of its predecessors in an attempt to be more "mainstreamy". The revolution fails to materialise and is not televised.

Ooops... that hasn't happened yet. Me and my damned Delorean.

ref · 2nd November 2007, 02:35 AM

9. The View Fiasco. Rosie was supposed to feature Loose Change Crew, possibly William Rodriguez, Steven Jones and others on the View. However, before anything happened she got into a dispute and resigned. No View. No MSM exposure.

ref · 2nd November 2007, 02:39 AM

10. How about the William Rodriguez vs. Loose Change episode? Dylan accused William of the Mark Cuban deal failure, William threw a couple of punches back. William left the impression that he sold witness testimonies. William also requested to be removed from LCF and never post there again.

Orphia Nay · 2nd November 2007, 02:54 AM

The 9/11 Scholars split: Judy Wood -v- Steven Jones. (Space beams & no thermite -v- Therm*te (or: Batcrap -v- Batcrap).

MikeW · 2nd November 2007, 03:10 AM

Lauro Chavez taking his turn guarding the Afghan pipeline, even though it doesn't exist?

And Tom Flocco self-destructing was a classic. He ran a story that said this:

Quote:

French and American intelligence agents have arrested Barbara Olsen, the wife of a former Bush administration official, a few days ago on the Polish-Austrian border, according to agents close to and with knowledge of the incident.

The alleged 9.11 Pentagon crash victim was found to be in possession of millions in fake interbank Italian lyra currency, according to the agents.

Olsen was also reportedly in possession of a fraudulent Vatican passport and was held on charges of counterfeiting.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/barba...o23sep05.shtml

Somehow not noticing that:

a) it's Olson, not Olsen
b) Poland and Austria don't have a common border
c) it's Lira, not Lyra
d) the Lira had been replaced by the Euro at the time so was almost useless
e) and if she had, say, ten million Lira at the time then that would have a value of under $10,000, hardly a big deal

After this even Alex Jones said he'd lost credibility... Which really says it all.

peteweaver · 2nd November 2007, 03:20 AM

Its bad enough that they continually try excusing terrorism, but what they are doing here is like urinating on a victims grave. Barbara Olson was murdered on the 11th sept 2001.

How someone can be idiotic enough to deny that is beyond me.

MikeW · 2nd November 2007, 03:37 AM

That was nothing for Flocco, he published nonsense all the time. You didn't know that a Chicago grand jury indicted Bush, Cheney, Andrew Card, Lewis Libby, Alberto Gonzalez, John Ashcroft, Judith Miller, Mary Matalin and Tony Blair, did you? Then you didn't read the Flocco story from the time: http://tomflocco.com/fs/BushCheneyIndicted.htm

Dave Rogers · 2nd November 2007, 04:05 AM

Anything to do with airfones?

Dave

ref · 2nd November 2007, 04:09 AM

Of all countries, why would she have chosen a Vatican passport.

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/...ticani_en.html

Quote:

As of December 31st 2005, there were 557, persons having the Vatican citizenship, of which 58 Cardinals, 293 of the Clergy having status as members of the Pontifical Representations, 62 other members of the Clergy, 101 members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard and 43 other lay persons.

The persons authorized to reside in the Vatican City maintaining their original citizenship were 246, of the aforementioned numbers.
The persons residing in buildings outside of the Vatican City in buildings exempt from expropriation and taxation were 3,100 on the above mentioned date.

From January 1st till December 31st 2005 have been transcribed 111 marriage acts.

WildCat · 2nd November 2007, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Plantfoam

According the Prof. Jones, did Jesus visit the UK or the US first?

Obviously the US, probably get a hundred guys named Jesus coming up from Mexico every day...

SpitfireIX · 2nd November 2007, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by ref

9. The View Fiasco. Rosie was supposed to feature Loose Change Crew, possibly William Rodriguez, Steven Jones and others on the View. However, before anything happened she got into a dispute and resigned. No View. No MSM exposure.

I'd say this was actually a lucky break for the "Truth" movement. Such exposure would simply have accelerated the plunge over the cliff.

CHF · 2nd November 2007, 05:57 AM

The biggest fiasco has to be Judy Wood's laser beam theory.

After the twoofers had hyped her engineering credentials for months they had to disown her as "disinfo."

Alferd_Packer · 2nd November 2007, 06:14 AM

Kevin Barrett trying to pull a "don't taze me, bro" copycat stunt and getting jeered out of the auditorium.

Kevin Ryan's lawsuit.

The Silver Shadow · 2nd November 2007, 06:25 AM

Killtown and all the no-planers getting the split with LCF. That was quite a spectacle...

timhau · 2nd November 2007, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by MikeW

e) and if she had, say, ten million Lira at the time then that would have a value of under $10,000, hardly a big deal

Ten million Italian Lira would be just over €5,100. Even now with the USD at an all-time low, it's under $7,500.

MarkyX · 2nd November 2007, 06:33 AM

Chris Bollyn's arrest claiming to be a target by the government (Alex Jones even reported this), then having his own wife go against his story. On the day of his sentence, he takes off and considers himself a political prisoner, while the movement is completely silent about this ordeal. What a way to treat one of the founders of the movement!

MikeW · 2nd November 2007, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by ref

Of all countries, why would she have chosen a Vatican passport.

Heh. It actually makes me wonder if this story deliberately had as many mistakes as possible included, just to see how many people would accept it anyway.

Drudgewire · 2nd November 2007, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Silver Shadow

Killtown

Killtown should have his own number.

The Silver Shadow · 2nd November 2007, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

Killtown should have his own number.

Is he still around or has he been relegated to his corner of cyberspace where nobody bothers to look?

defaultdotxbe · 2nd November 2007, 08:08 AM

i think the truth movement itself is its own biggest fiasco

ref · 2nd November 2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by MikeW

Heh. It actually makes me wonder if this story deliberately had as many mistakes as possible included, just to see how many people would accept it anyway.

I was thinking the exact same thing. One more thing that struck me (as a bank person). What is "fake interbank Italian lyra currency"?

Italian Lira notes were introduced by Banca d'Italia (Bank of Italy). This is the Italian central bank, so no other banks were throwing their own Lire around. Here are sample pictures:

http://www.banknotes.com/it.htm

What has some "interbank" to do with anything in this?

BenBurch · 2nd November 2007, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by peteweaver

Its bad enough that they continually try excusing terrorism, but what they are doing here is like urinating on a victims grave. Barbara Olson was murdered on the 11th sept 2001.

How someone can be idiotic enough to deny that is beyond me.

I thought Barbara Olson was a huge jerk, but that doesn't mean she was any less a victim of this attack.

juryjone · 2nd November 2007, 09:13 AM

I think the greatest failure of the movement is the lack of a single coherent theory of what happened that day after more than six years of speculation. LIHOP/MIHOP, planes/no planes, space beam/therm*te, flyover/no flyover, survivors/no survivors. Molten metal. Suitcase nukes. Not a single "this is what happened that day" scenario that makes any kind of sense, even to themselves.

This isn't a movement. It's hundreds of individual nutcases, each going down their own individual yellow brick road. If there was an actual movement, they'd be a lot more dangerous.

Disbelief · 2nd November 2007, 09:50 AM

Did I miss the release of the blueprints? That was going to be the smoking gun that proved it. Turned out to be quite the flop.

Minadin · 2nd November 2007, 10:12 AM

Kevin Ryan's Lawsuit.

Dismissed with prejudice.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91879

WilliamSeger · 2nd November 2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Disbelief

Did I miss the release of the blueprints? That was going to be the smoking gun that proved it. Turned out to be quite the flop.

... and the NORAD tapes.

dudalb · 2nd November 2007, 10:40 AM

Judy Woods might be the most idiotic moment,but the constant infighting and bickering is what has hurt the "movement" the most.

tacodaemon · 2nd November 2007, 11:06 AM

I'll always remember the time the Loose Change guys made a big deal about going to what used to be Griffiss AFB for some filming, which gave the military an opportunity to have Korey arrested for desertion.

Juustin · 2nd November 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

5. Kennebunkport Bunk. After successfully pursuing an alliance with Cindy Sheehan and other peace movement leaders, Webster Tarpley turns on them and calls them "miserable human beings" when they deny signing a statement he had circulated. Cindy Sheehan has not made a statement in support of the "Truthers" since.

I know Cindy Sheehan can be wishy washy, but she was at least making Truther claims at one point, I heard it myself on a call with Sean Hannity. He was calling her out on being involved with some MIHOP types at a rally or something, and asked her if it was true, and she said Bush & Co. were behind 9/11. He pushed a little more on what evidence she had for it, and she turned that into "Well, they at least knew it was going to happen and when and let it happen anyway".

All that is paraphrased, call was around a year ago IIRC.

nicepants · 2nd November 2007, 01:31 PM

Alex Jones claiming that the FDNY were involved in the conspiracy.

"Mike" the EMT's "smoking gun" testimony.

CHF · 2nd November 2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by juryjone

This isn't a movement. It's hundreds of individual nutcases, each going down their own individual yellow brick road. If there was an actual movement, they'd be a lot more dangerous.

Alex on SLC said it best: the TM is a "movement" in the same way as a mental asylum is a movement.

LashL · 2nd November 2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Minadin

Kevin Ryan's Lawsuit.

Dismissed with prejudice.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91879

Coincidentally, I just obtained some additional documents on that today and I plan on adding them to the most recent waterboy litigation thread when I get home tonight.

[/derail]

Gravy · 2nd November 2007, 02:22 PM

–The John Schroeder incident. Guys from three different parts of the truth movement are so anxious to get a traumatized victim's story on YouTube that they neglect to listen to it.

–Jason Bermas proclaiming that the firefighters are paid off, in a video promoted on the Loose Change website, then "apologizing" by proclaiming that they're not paid off, they're bowing to threats.

–No-planer Dylan Avery banning no-planers from his forum.

–Louder Than Words proclaiming, in 2007, that whatever hit the Pentagon is irrelevant.

–Any truthers allowing themselves to be interviewed by the BBC or the History Channel.

–Alex Jones allowing the NYPD to take him alive.

Bell · 2nd November 2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gravy

–Alex Jones allowing the NYPD to take him alive.

How that could happen is still being investigated by the IAB.

bje · 2nd November 2007, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

I'm trying to gather together some information here; let's hear about some boneheaded mistakes, plans that fell disastrously apart, etc. No Stundies, no science experiments; I'm looking for places where the movement made an incredible mistake, not just an individual.

Personally, I think this should all come under the heading of "The 9/11 Truth Movement's Greatest Hits"

Brainster · 11th November 2007, 01:40 AM

The 11/11 launch of Loose Change online.

2nd November 2007, 01:25 AM	#1
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,428	The Greatest Fiascos of the 9-11 "Truth" Movement I'm trying to gather together some information here; let's hear about some boneheaded mistakes, plans that fell disastrously apart, etc. No Stundies, no science experiments; I'm looking for places where the movement made an incredible mistake, not just an individual. Some that I can think of off the top of my head: 1. The Scholars For 9-11 Truth. Jim Fetzer leverages himself into the position of spokesman for the patched elbow brigade and promptly reveals that he is a complete nut. 2. The Ham Sandwich Escapes Indictment. A Truther Grand Jury fails to indict anybody for 9-11 crimes, despite Jim Hoffman as the prosecutor and "expert" testimony from Steven Jones and Richard Gage. 3. Truther Burn. An artist proposes to demonstrate Steven Jones' imaginary diagonal thermite cutting devices at Burning Man. Money is raised. Artist decides not to go through with demonstration. 4. Holocaust Denier Running the Show. A Holocaust Denier was the conference director for an Arizona 9-11 Accountability confab attended by many of the movement's leading figures, even after they found out of his involvement. 5. Kennebunkport Bunk. After successfully pursuing an alliance with Cindy Sheehan and other peace movement leaders, Webster Tarpley turns on them and calls them "miserable human beings" when they deny signing a statement he had circulated. Cindy Sheehan has not made a statement in support of the "Truthers" since. 6. Jesus in the UK. The British Troofers anoint David Shayler as their leader, and Alex Jones gives him major face time in Terrorstorm. Shayler announces he's a no-planer and the son of God.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

2nd November 2007, 01:50 AM	#4
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	Does this qualify? 7. Kevin Barrett goes to arrest the alive hijacker in Morocco. Only when in Morocco he finds out, the guy he is looking for may not even be in Morocco. A couple of phone calls would have told him that. It's interesting to see how the story evolves. Look how the tone changes. Before: "Barrett voiced his outrage that such a brutal, ruthless terrorist has been allowed to commit mass murder and suicide—and walk away scot free. “Waleed al-Shehri, I’m coming to get you!” Barrett vowed. “I don’t know how you got out of that plane alive, but that was the last miraculous escape you’ll ever make. You’re coming back to the US in handcuffs with me to face charges of mass murder and terrorism.” In Morocco: "I have spoken to a couple of fairly high-level people in the commercial aviation community in Casablanca, and so far nobody will confirm or deny that a Saudi pilot named Waleed al-Shehri ever lived or worked here. When I ask how I might obtain a list of pilots based in Casablanca, they tell me that no such list is obtainable. The Information Officer at the US Embassy in Rabat, a pleasant fellow named David, told me today that he and all the other current Embassy personnel know nothing about the al-Shehri story, because none of them were in Morocco in 2001, because diplomatic service employees always rotate around the world every few years." After: "The truth is, if I was not particularly disturbed, much less surprised, by my failure to find Waleed..." http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=80682
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

2nd November 2007, 01:54 AM	#5
qarnos Cold-hearted skeptic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne, Austrylia Posts: 1,985	8. LC:FC is an even more watered-down version of its predecessors in an attempt to be more "mainstreamy". The revolution fails to materialise and is not televised. Ooops... that hasn't happened yet. Me and my damned Delorean.
	__________________ "In the twenty years since the Chernobyl tragedy, the world's worst nuclear accident, there have been nearly [FILL IN ALARMIST AND ARMAGEDDONIST FACTOID HERE]" - Greenpeace press release. Last edited by qarnos; 2nd November 2007 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Damned ref! Stole number 7.

2nd November 2007, 02:35 AM	#6
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	9. The View Fiasco. Rosie was supposed to feature Loose Change Crew, possibly William Rodriguez, Steven Jones and others on the View. However, before anything happened she got into a dispute and resigned. No View. No MSM exposure.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

2nd November 2007, 02:39 AM	#7
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	10. How about the William Rodriguez vs. Loose Change episode? Dylan accused William of the Mark Cuban deal failure, William threw a couple of punches back. William left the impression that he sold witness testimonies. William also requested to be removed from LCF and never post there again.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

2nd November 2007, 01:40 AM	#2
Plantfoam Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 219	Quote: 6. Jesus in the UK. The British Troofers anoint David Shayler as their leader, and Alex Jones gives him major face time in Terrorstorm. Shayler announces he's a no-planer and the son of God. According the Prof. Jones, did Jesus visit the UK or the US first? I mean, he is obviously there right now because of the weak dollar.

2nd November 2007, 01:46 AM	#3
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	I feel the whole Loose Change final cut thing qualifies - It went from being bigger than Ben Hur to a few private screenings in Sweden

2nd November 2007, 02:54 AM	#8
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,369	The 9/11 Scholars split: Judy Wood -v- Steven Jones. (Space beams & no thermite -v- Therm*te (or: Batcrap -v- Batcrap).
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

2nd November 2007, 03:10 AM	#9
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911	Lauro Chavez taking his turn guarding the Afghan pipeline, even though it doesn't exist? And Tom Flocco self-destructing was a classic. He ran a story that said this: Quote: French and American intelligence agents have arrested Barbara Olsen, the wife of a former Bush administration official, a few days ago on the Polish-Austrian border, according to agents close to and with knowledge of the incident. The alleged 9.11 Pentagon crash victim was found to be in possession of millions in fake interbank Italian lyra currency, according to the agents. Olsen was also reportedly in possession of a fraudulent Vatican passport and was held on charges of counterfeiting. http://educate-yourself.org/cn/barba...o23sep05.shtml Somehow not noticing that: a) it's Olson, not Olsen b) Poland and Austria don't have a common border c) it's Lira, not Lyra d) the Lira had been replaced by the Euro at the time so was almost useless e) and if she had, say, ten million Lira at the time then that would have a value of under $10,000, hardly a big deal After this even Alex Jones said he'd lost credibility... Which really says it all.
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911

2nd November 2007, 03:20 AM	#10
peteweaver Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,005	Its bad enough that they continually try excusing terrorism, but what they are doing here is like urinating on a victims grave. Barbara Olson was murdered on the 11th sept 2001. How someone can be idiotic enough to deny that is beyond me.

2nd November 2007, 03:37 AM	#11
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911	That was nothing for Flocco, he published nonsense all the time. You didn't know that a Chicago grand jury indicted Bush, Cheney, Andrew Card, Lewis Libby, Alberto Gonzalez, John Ashcroft, Judith Miller, Mary Matalin and Tony Blair, did you? Then you didn't read the Flocco story from the time: http://tomflocco.com/fs/BushCheneyIndicted.htm
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911

2nd November 2007, 04:05 AM	#12
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a world lit only by fire. Posts: 17,894	Anything to do with airfones? Dave
	__________________ "We will punish the murderer together. Our punishment will be more generosity, more tolerance and more democracy." - Fabian Stang, Mayor of Oslo SSKCAS, covert member

2nd November 2007, 04:09 AM	#13
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	Of all countries, why would she have chosen a Vatican passport. http://www.vatican.va/news_services/...ticani_en.html Quote: As of December 31st 2005, there were 557, persons having the Vatican citizenship, of which 58 Cardinals, 293 of the Clergy having status as members of the Pontifical Representations, 62 other members of the Clergy, 101 members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard and 43 other lay persons. The persons authorized to reside in the Vatican City maintaining their original citizenship were 246, of the aforementioned numbers. The persons residing in buildings outside of the Vatican City in buildings exempt from expropriation and taxation were 3,100 on the above mentioned date. From January 1st till December 31st 2005 have been transcribed 111 marriage acts.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

2nd November 2007, 05:40 AM	#14
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,031	Originally Posted by Plantfoam According the Prof. Jones, did Jesus visit the UK or the US first? Obviously the US, probably get a hundred guys named Jesus coming up from Mexico every day...
	Last edited by WildCat; 2nd November 2007 at 05:49 AM.

2nd November 2007, 05:48 AM	#15
SpitfireIX Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 2,830	Originally Posted by ref 9. The View Fiasco. Rosie was supposed to feature Loose Change Crew, possibly William Rodriguez, Steven Jones and others on the View. However, before anything happened she got into a dispute and resigned. No View. No MSM exposure. I'd say this was actually a lucky break for the "Truth" movement. Such exposure would simply have accelerated the plunge over the cliff.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

2nd November 2007, 05:57 AM	#16
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	The biggest fiasco has to be Judy Wood's laser beam theory. After the twoofers had hyped her engineering credentials for months they had to disown her as "disinfo."

2nd November 2007, 06:14 AM	#17
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,212	Kevin Barrett trying to pull a "don't taze me, bro" copycat stunt and getting jeered out of the auditorium. Kevin Ryan's lawsuit.
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

2nd November 2007, 06:25 AM	#18
The Silver Shadow Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Physically, Toronto; Mentally, Monte Carlo Posts: 1,063	Killtown and all the no-planers getting the split with LCF. That was quite a spectacle...
	__________________ I've accomplished more without film school than most people, such as yourself, will EVER accomplish. Period. Jealousy is a bitch, and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but don't spew ******** like that and expect to not be corrected. This is why you were banned from my forums in the first place. - Dylan Avery on the budget of his film.

2nd November 2007, 06:29 AM	#19
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,665	Originally Posted by MikeW e) and if she had, say, ten million Lira at the time then that would have a value of under $10,000, hardly a big deal Ten million Italian Lira would be just over €5,100. Even now with the USD at an all-time low, it's under $7,500.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

2nd November 2007, 06:33 AM	#20
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	Chris Bollyn's arrest claiming to be a target by the government (Alex Jones even reported this), then having his own wife go against his story. On the day of his sentence, he takes off and considers himself a political prisoner, while the movement is completely silent about this ordeal. What a way to treat one of the founders of the movement!
MarkyX Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,158	__________________ MarkyX's Haunted Bloghouse - Read my boredom

2nd November 2007, 06:41 AM	#21
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911	Originally Posted by ref Of all countries, why would she have chosen a Vatican passport. Heh. It actually makes me wonder if this story deliberately had as many mistakes as possible included, just to see how many people would accept it anyway.
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911

2nd November 2007, 06:53 AM	#22
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Originally Posted by The Silver Shadow Killtown Killtown should have his own number.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

2nd November 2007, 07:33 AM	#23
The Silver Shadow Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Physically, Toronto; Mentally, Monte Carlo Posts: 1,063	Originally Posted by Drudgewire Killtown should have his own number. Is he still around or has he been relegated to his corner of cyberspace where nobody bothers to look?
	__________________ I've accomplished more without film school than most people, such as yourself, will EVER accomplish. Period. Jealousy is a bitch, and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but don't spew ******** like that and expect to not be corrected. This is why you were banned from my forums in the first place. - Dylan Avery on the budget of his film.

2nd November 2007, 08:08 AM	#24
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	i think the truth movement itself is its own biggest fiasco
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

2nd November 2007, 08:35 AM	#25
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	Originally Posted by MikeW Heh. It actually makes me wonder if this story deliberately had as many mistakes as possible included, just to see how many people would accept it anyway. I was thinking the exact same thing. One more thing that struck me (as a bank person). What is "fake interbank Italian lyra currency"? Italian Lira notes were introduced by Banca d'Italia (Bank of Italy). This is the Italian central bank, so no other banks were throwing their own Lire around. Here are sample pictures: http://www.banknotes.com/it.htm What has some "interbank" to do with anything in this?
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

2nd November 2007, 08:39 AM	#26
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,145	Originally Posted by peteweaver Its bad enough that they continually try excusing terrorism, but what they are doing here is like urinating on a victims grave. Barbara Olson was murdered on the 11th sept 2001. How someone can be idiotic enough to deny that is beyond me. I thought Barbara Olson was a huge jerk, but that doesn't mean she was any less a victim of this attack.
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2nd November 2007, 09:13 AM	#27
juryjone Refusing to be confused by facts Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 879	I think the greatest failure of the movement is the lack of a single coherent theory of what happened that day after more than six years of speculation. LIHOP/MIHOP, planes/no planes, space beam/therm*te, flyover/no flyover, survivors/no survivors. Molten metal. Suitcase nukes. Not a single "this is what happened that day" scenario that makes any kind of sense, even to themselves. This isn't a movement. It's hundreds of individual nutcases, each going down their own individual yellow brick road. If there was an actual movement, they'd be a lot more dangerous.
	__________________ "Humanity is slipping into the void of ignorance while you cheer and wave." - Tirdun, in reference to geggy and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists

2nd November 2007, 09:50 AM	#28
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,272	Did I miss the release of the blueprints? That was going to be the smoking gun that proved it. Turned out to be quite the flop.
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,272

2nd November 2007, 10:12 AM	#29
Minadin Hiding his Head in the Sane Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,473	Kevin Ryan's Lawsuit. Dismissed with prejudice. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91879
	__________________ Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish your opinions. If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are. Support the democratic freedom of the people of Iran.

2nd November 2007, 10:12 AM	#30
WilliamSeger Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 275	Originally Posted by Disbelief Did I miss the release of the blueprints? That was going to be the smoking gun that proved it. Turned out to be quite the flop. ... and the NORAD tapes.

2nd November 2007, 10:40 AM	#31
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,814	Judy Woods might be the most idiotic moment,but the constant infighting and bickering is what has hurt the "movement" the most.

2nd November 2007, 11:06 AM	#32
tacodaemon Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: DC Posts: 571	I'll always remember the time the Loose Change guys made a big deal about going to what used to be Griffiss AFB for some filming, which gave the military an opportunity to have Korey arrested for desertion.
	__________________ "Killtown, your brain is like the four headed, man-eating haddock fish beast of Aberdeen." - Fr Ted @ LCF

2nd November 2007, 12:27 PM	#33
Juustin Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Schenectady, NY Posts: 503	Originally Posted by Brainster 5. Kennebunkport Bunk. After successfully pursuing an alliance with Cindy Sheehan and other peace movement leaders, Webster Tarpley turns on them and calls them "miserable human beings" when they deny signing a statement he had circulated. Cindy Sheehan has not made a statement in support of the "Truthers" since. I know Cindy Sheehan can be wishy washy, but she was at least making Truther claims at one point, I heard it myself on a call with Sean Hannity. He was calling her out on being involved with some MIHOP types at a rally or something, and asked her if it was true, and she said Bush & Co. were behind 9/11. He pushed a little more on what evidence she had for it, and she turned that into "Well, they at least knew it was going to happen and when and let it happen anyway". All that is paraphrased, call was around a year ago IIRC.
	__________________ Science has all the answers. We just don't have all the science. - James Morrow Last edited by Juustin; 2nd November 2007 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Language was vague, wanted to clarify

2nd November 2007, 01:31 PM	#34
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,720	Alex Jones claiming that the FDNY were involved in the conspiracy. "Mike" the EMT's "smoking gun" testimony.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein

2nd November 2007, 01:57 PM	#35
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	Originally Posted by juryjone This isn't a movement. It's hundreds of individual nutcases, each going down their own individual yellow brick road. If there was an actual movement, they'd be a lot more dangerous. Alex on SLC said it best: the TM is a "movement" in the same way as a mental asylum is a movement.