Expel Arafat?

hgc · 11th September 2003, 08:05 AM

The issue of expelling Arafat from Palestine is coming to a head (article), since now a majority of Israel's security cabinet favors it. Sharon hasn't moved on it because the U.S. opposes the move.

What do you think? Does expelling Arafat "get [them] out of the current cycle of violence," as Defense Minister Mofaz claims? How much does Arafat really influence the fate of Palestine at this point anyway? It seems to me that Hamas is a powerful independent force (military and political) in Palestine, and only civil war will bring that country (such as it is) under the control of anyone willing to make a deal with Israel. Arafat wouldn't do it, Abbas couldn't do it. What difference does it make at this point whether Arafat sits in Ramallah or in some Arab capital in exile?

Cleopatra · 11th September 2003, 11:08 AM

Let's hope that the Israeli government won't do this gross political mistake that will turn Yasser Arafat into a hero again.

During the last years a series of economic scandals, authoritarian administration of the organization, tortures and assassinations of his political opponents have resulted in a significant decrease of Arafat's popularity within PLO and the Palestinian people.

Expelling the historical leader of the Liberation Movement of the Palestinians has a symbolic meaning -at least this is how I interpret it--The Israeli government wants to show to the Arabs that after the resignation of Abas and the collapse of the Road Map plan they have nothing to expect from it and that the relations with the Palestinians are in the zero point again and practically non-existent.

If the above is true (which I think that it is because I follow the politics of the area since I remember myself) this shows that the Israeli government is doing a huge mistake: We are not in the 70ies, the patience of the International Community is almost exhausted, the accusations about the violation of the human rights are accumulating, our greatest sponsors, the people of USA have started questioning the alliance... somebody must break the news to the Israeli government...

As for the relations of Arafat with Hamas, I strongly disagree, it was just in August that we heard at the news that Arafat was hiding in his headquarters in Ramalah militants of Hamas.

hgc · 11th September 2003, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Cleopatra

As for the relations of Arafat with Hamas, I strongly disagree, it was just in August that we heard at the news that Arafat was hiding in his headquarters in Ramalah militants of Hamas.

Disagree with what? That Hamas is an independent force in the Palestinian body politic? That Arafat was hiding their people doesn't disprove that. For instance Hamas has clearly stated goal that are known to run counter to Arafat's goal (theocracy vs. secular authority). Afterall Arafat has his own suicide bomber organization (Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) that he does control, and has shown that he can keep out of action if he wants.

My point is that the PA led by Arafat or anyone else will not completely control the Palestinian territory, and therefore will not have the authority to strike a deal, without a civil war. So not only is it foolish, as far as P.R. goes, to kick out Arafat, but it won't even accomplish what they claim it will (cessation of terror). Either the security cabinet is incredibly foolish, or the domestic political concerns around this are so overwhelming that they will do it anyway for that reason.

corplinx · 11th September 2003, 12:58 PM

Expelling him is definitely wrong. They should kidnap him secretly and off him.

Solitaire · 11th September 2003, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by corplinx
Expelling him is definitely wrong.
They should kidnap him secretly and off him.

Killing the pawn is a bad idea.
He brings to the table an appearance of being the voice of the people.
Kill him and the next power down is hammas - no outsiders recognize
them as ligit authorities. Very quickly the left of outsiders would see
that people have no power and that would be bad for the expansion.

demon · 11th September 2003, 01:23 PM

From the BBC:
________________________________________________
The Israeli security cabinet has agreed in principle to expel Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.
The cabinet is understood to have asked the army to draw up a series of options for Mr Arafat's expulsion from his compound in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
The decision comes after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened an urgent meeting of cabinet ministers to consider their response to suicide bombings on Monday that killed 15 people.

The BBC's James Reynolds in Jerusalem says the decision may be part of an effort by the Israelis to show the new Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei he should keep his distance from Mr Arafat.

'Serious threat'

"Arafat is an obstacle to peace and Israel will act to remove this obstacle," a statement from the meeting was quoted as saying.
________________________________________________

If Arafat is an obstacle to peace, the Vichy was an obstacle to Hitler's ambitions!

He bloody sold off 72% of the country so that the ZioNazis would recognise his 'authority'!
What sort of man, who gives away so much, can then be declared an 'obstacle to peace'?

I'm not saying this as a criticism of Arafat, he is the leader of the bulk of the Palestinians - they decide what happens and who represents them, not me.

I am only saying this to highlight just HOW MUCH has ALREADY been GIVEN to the ZioNazis.

This is just garbage. Grown people cannot hear this and remain silent, these Nazis are going to take over the whole of Palestine and they are going to do it with our HELP! our ARMS! our MONEY!

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pag...st/3098656.stm

Cleopatra · 11th September 2003, 01:35 PM

hgc, I am sorry, I wasn't clear.

I think that Arafat is behind every terrorist activity in Israel.
He is in close relations with Hamas and he is quite aware of their actions and their plans.

I have been observing the game of chess that Hamas was playing with Abas and Israelis. The signature of the inspirator was quite clear: Yasser Arafat. Note that this rat was absent during the whole summer, he didn't appear not even once during the last months, he " returned" only a week before Abas' resignation. I know because I was "looking for him" in the Media and he was absent even from Electronic Indifanda!!

As I mentioned in my previous post, the Israeli Cabinet lives in the 70ies... They think that they can expel Arafat without any cost, they are a bunch of idiots that they have the slightest idea about politics.

I HOPE that the American government will prevent them from doing such a foolishness.

Cleopatra · 11th September 2003, 01:36 PM

The post above mine is another example of trolling. I suggest we ignore the poster and we continue our serious discussion.

American · 11th September 2003, 06:25 PM

Slot him.

Cleopatra · 11th September 2003, 09:03 PM

They did it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3102244.stm

Zep · 11th September 2003, 09:46 PM

No, Cleo, that report is the reaction to the "in principle" decision of the Israeli cabinet.

There MUST be a way to "ease" Arafat out without resorting to any actions that would make him a martyr - that would be the last thing to bring any peace.

svero · 11th September 2003, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra
hgc, I am sorry, I wasn't clear.

I think that Arafat is behind every terrorist activity in Israel.

Why do you believe this?

Cleopatra · 11th September 2003, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
No, Cleo, that report is the reaction to the "in principle" decision of the Israeli cabinet.

Zep The term "in principle" means that the political decision won't be put in effect immediately but it's an official decision of the Israeli government.

svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks.

Cleon · 12th September 2003, 04:50 AM

The Israelis like to make a big deal out of Arafat. When the peace talks are on, they claim he doesn't do enough against Hamas. When they're off, they claim he's a terrorist mastermind.

The reality is, Arafat's just a politically impotent opportunist. He has as much ability to control Al-Aqsa, Hamas, and the rest, as I have of controlling Dubya. Hell, he can't even control the PA.

So the Israelis and the Americans had Arafat name a Prime Minister. Problem is, Abbas couldn't control Hamas, Al-Aqsa, etc. either. So they're going back to blaming Arafat.

Politically, Arafat's rather moderate. Since the PLO officially dropped the demand for a democratic, secular Palestine (sometimes translated as "the destruction of the state of Israel"), he's constantly waffled between the two-state moderates and the one-staters depending on the situation. He really *isn't* a Muslim fundamentalist like Hamas (who, for those with a short memory, declared war on the PA a couple years back).

Arafat IS a symbol to the Palestinians, more than he is an actual leader. If you talk to Palestinians on the street, they KNOW he's an incompetent fool, but the attitude is, "he's OUR incompetent fool."

So expelling Arafat will do the following:
--It will piss off the Palestinians
--It will get him out of the country

It will not accomplish anything else for the Israelis. Killing him would just piss off the Palestinians more.

Cleon · 12th September 2003, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra

Zep The term "in principle" means that the political decision won't be put in effect immediately but it's an official decision of the Israeli government.

svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks.

Uh, dude, do a google on "Arafat condemns attacks." One quote popped up in the top ten:

"'I condemn the attacks carried out by terrorist groups against Israeli civilians,' Arafat wrote in an editorial published on Sunday in The New York Times. 'These groups do not represent the Palestinian people or their legitimate aspirations for freedom. They are terrorist organisations. Palestinians are ready to end the conflict,' Arafat wrote."

That's not particularly vague....

demon · 12th September 2003, 06:35 AM

Cleon wrote:
"Uh, dude, do a google on "Arafat condemns attacks." One quote popped up in the top ten:

"'I condemn the attacks carried out by terrorist groups against Israeli civilians,' Arafat wrote in an editorial published on Sunday in The New York Times. 'These groups do not represent the Palestinian people or their legitimate aspirations for freedom. They are terrorist organisations. Palestinians are ready to end the conflict,' Arafat wrote."

That's not particularly vague...."

It`s not particularly vaugue and neither is this:

"July 24 2002 - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Tuesday congratulated his forces on the air strike that killed the military leader Hamas in Gaza, along with 13 civilians, including eight children. While the U.S. did not comment on the F-16 attack, the Palestinian Authority said it will file a complaint with the International Criminal Court (ICC).

Sharon called the raid on Gaza City that killed a total of 15 people "one of the most successful operations" to have been carried out by Israel's forces, Israeli Army Radio said, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP)."

As far as terrorism goes, Sharon leaves Arafat in the shadow of his hateful blubber.
To talk of expelling Arafat while keeping Sharon there, as leader of Israel shows how far we in the west have sunk into the double standards that the rest of the world sees so clearly.
Sharon, who President Bush called "a man of peace", is a blatent war criminal. Most of us have stepped in things that have more humanity and compassion than this piece of work.

svero · 12th September 2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleopatra

svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks.

Hmm..well not condemning or even being associated with Hamas doesn't necessarily imply total control of the organization or all organizations. I've never really been convinced that Arafat has as much power as the Israelis let on in terms of stopping terrorism. I've always pretty much believed that to be a political tool. I was very surprised that they voted to expel him because I think he actually serves certain Israeli interests, but I guess he's not actually gone yet.

a_unique_person · 12th September 2003, 04:04 PM

Looks like Cleopatra is right.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...341772107.html

The Israeli cabinet has made his day.

dsm · 12th September 2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
There MUST be a way to "ease" Arafat out without resorting to any actions that would make him a martyr - that would be the last thing to bring any peace.

How about expelling him from the Palestinian sector to the Israeli sector? Why not take him to Tel Aviv and have him work and live in close proximity to the things the bombers are bombing? The Israelis can claim it as the way for Arafat to show his commitment to the peace plan by living and working with the Israelis...

Zep · 13th September 2003, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dsm
How about expelling him from the Palestinian sector to the Israeli sector? Why not take him to Tel Aviv and have him work and live in close proximity to the things the bombers are bombing? The Israelis can claim it as the way for Arafat to show his commitment to the peace plan by living and working with the Israelis...

Don't know if the smilie means you are joking...but I'll accept this as a reasonable response. Would he go, though? Can it be accomplished without seeming to "kidnapping" him?

I'm just worried that someone on either side will do something TOO rash that will start an all-out war again. (And yes, I agree, suicide bombings and pinpoint retaliation is not trivial.) That way is just madness for everyone...

11th September 2003, 08:05 AM	#1
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	Expel Arafat? The issue of expelling Arafat from Palestine is coming to a head (article), since now a majority of Israel's security cabinet favors it. Sharon hasn't moved on it because the U.S. opposes the move. What do you think? Does expelling Arafat "get [them] out of the current cycle of violence," as Defense Minister Mofaz claims? How much does Arafat really influence the fate of Palestine at this point anyway? It seems to me that Hamas is a powerful independent force (military and political) in Palestine, and only civil war will bring that country (such as it is) under the control of anyone willing to make a deal with Israel. Arafat wouldn't do it, Abbas couldn't do it. What difference does it make at this point whether Arafat sits in Ramallah or in some Arab capital in exile?

11th September 2003, 11:08 AM	#2
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Let's hope that the Israeli government won't do this gross political mistake that will turn Yasser Arafat into a hero again. During the last years a series of economic scandals, authoritarian administration of the organization, tortures and assassinations of his political opponents have resulted in a significant decrease of Arafat's popularity within PLO and the Palestinian people. Expelling the historical leader of the Liberation Movement of the Palestinians has a symbolic meaning -at least this is how I interpret it--The Israeli government wants to show to the Arabs that after the resignation of Abas and the collapse of the Road Map plan they have nothing to expect from it and that the relations with the Palestinians are in the zero point again and practically non-existent. If the above is true (which I think that it is because I follow the politics of the area since I remember myself) this shows that the Israeli government is doing a huge mistake: We are not in the 70ies, the patience of the International Community is almost exhausted, the accusations about the violation of the human rights are accumulating, our greatest sponsors, the people of USA have started questioning the alliance... somebody must break the news to the Israeli government... As for the relations of Arafat with Hamas, I strongly disagree, it was just in August that we heard at the news that Arafat was hiding in his headquarters in Ramalah militants of Hamas.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th September 2003, 12:58 PM	#4
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Expelling him is definitely wrong. They should kidnap him secretly and off him.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

11th September 2003, 01:17 PM	#5
Solitaire Neoclinus blanchardi Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Johnson City, Tennessee Posts: 1,735	Quote: Originally posted by corplinx Expelling him is definitely wrong. They should kidnap him secretly and off him. Killing the pawn is a bad idea. He brings to the table an appearance of being the voice of the people. Kill him and the next power down is hammas - no outsiders recognize them as ligit authorities. Very quickly the left of outsiders would see that people have no power and that would be bad for the expansion.
	__________________ GENERATION ∞: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

11th September 2003, 01:23 PM	#6
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744	From the BBC: ________________________________________________ The Israeli security cabinet has agreed in principle to expel Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. The cabinet is understood to have asked the army to draw up a series of options for Mr Arafat's expulsion from his compound in the West Bank town of Ramallah. The decision comes after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened an urgent meeting of cabinet ministers to consider their response to suicide bombings on Monday that killed 15 people. The BBC's James Reynolds in Jerusalem says the decision may be part of an effort by the Israelis to show the new Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei he should keep his distance from Mr Arafat. 'Serious threat' "Arafat is an obstacle to peace and Israel will act to remove this obstacle," a statement from the meeting was quoted as saying. ________________________________________________ If Arafat is an obstacle to peace, the Vichy was an obstacle to Hitler's ambitions! He bloody sold off 72% of the country so that the ZioNazis would recognise his 'authority'! What sort of man, who gives away so much, can then be declared an 'obstacle to peace'? I'm not saying this as a criticism of Arafat, he is the leader of the bulk of the Palestinians - they decide what happens and who represents them, not me. I am only saying this to highlight just HOW MUCH has ALREADY been GIVEN to the ZioNazis. This is just garbage. Grown people cannot hear this and remain silent, these Nazis are going to take over the whole of Palestine and they are going to do it with our HELP! our ARMS! our MONEY! http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pag...st/3098656.stm
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744

11th September 2003, 11:47 AM	#3
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,008	Quote: Cleopatra As for the relations of Arafat with Hamas, I strongly disagree, it was just in August that we heard at the news that Arafat was hiding in his headquarters in Ramalah militants of Hamas. Disagree with what? That Hamas is an independent force in the Palestinian body politic? That Arafat was hiding their people doesn't disprove that. For instance Hamas has clearly stated goal that are known to run counter to Arafat's goal (theocracy vs. secular authority). Afterall Arafat has his own suicide bomber organization (Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) that he does control, and has shown that he can keep out of action if he wants. My point is that the PA led by Arafat or anyone else will not completely control the Palestinian territory, and therefore will not have the authority to strike a deal, without a civil war. So not only is it foolish, as far as P.R. goes, to kick out Arafat, but it won't even accomplish what they claim it will (cessation of terror). Either the security cabinet is incredibly foolish, or the domestic political concerns around this are so overwhelming that they will do it anyway for that reason.

11th September 2003, 01:35 PM	#7
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	hgc, I am sorry, I wasn't clear. I think that Arafat is behind every terrorist activity in Israel. He is in close relations with Hamas and he is quite aware of their actions and their plans. I have been observing the game of chess that Hamas was playing with Abas and Israelis. The signature of the inspirator was quite clear: Yasser Arafat. Note that this rat was absent during the whole summer, he didn't appear not even once during the last months, he " returned" only a week before Abas' resignation. I know because I was "looking for him" in the Media and he was absent even from Electronic Indifanda!! As I mentioned in my previous post, the Israeli Cabinet lives in the 70ies... They think that they can expel Arafat without any cost, they are a bunch of idiots that they have the slightest idea about politics. I HOPE that the American government will prevent them from doing such a foolishness.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th September 2003, 01:36 PM	#8
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	The post above mine is another example of trolling. I suggest we ignore the poster and we continue our serious discussion.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th September 2003, 06:25 PM	#9
American Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: CA Posts: 3,842	Slot him.

11th September 2003, 09:03 PM	#10
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	They did it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3102244.stm
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

11th September 2003, 09:46 PM	#11
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	No, Cleo, that report is the reaction to the "in principle" decision of the Israeli cabinet. There MUST be a way to "ease" Arafat out without resorting to any actions that would make him a martyr - that would be the last thing to bring any peace.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

11th September 2003, 09:59 PM	#12
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra hgc, I am sorry, I wasn't clear. I think that Arafat is behind every terrorist activity in Israel. Why do you believe this?
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	__________________ 'The idea that (technology) takes away mystery or awe or wonder in nature is wrong. It's quite the opposite. It's much more wonderful to know what something's really like than to sit there and just simply, in ignorance, say, "Oooh, isn't it wonderful?"' - Richard Feynman

11th September 2003, 11:36 PM	#13
Cleopatra Diva Caissa Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Athens-Greece Posts: 9,272	Quote: Originally posted by Zep No, Cleo, that report is the reaction to the "in principle" decision of the Israeli cabinet. Zep The term "in principle" means that the political decision won't be put in effect immediately but it's an official decision of the Israeli government. svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks.
	__________________ Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting.~ Mark Twain.

12th September 2003, 04:50 AM	#14
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,519	The Israelis like to make a big deal out of Arafat. When the peace talks are on, they claim he doesn't do enough against Hamas. When they're off, they claim he's a terrorist mastermind. The reality is, Arafat's just a politically impotent opportunist. He has as much ability to control Al-Aqsa, Hamas, and the rest, as I have of controlling Dubya. Hell, he can't even control the PA. So the Israelis and the Americans had Arafat name a Prime Minister. Problem is, Abbas couldn't control Hamas, Al-Aqsa, etc. either. So they're going back to blaming Arafat. Politically, Arafat's rather moderate. Since the PLO officially dropped the demand for a democratic, secular Palestine (sometimes translated as "the destruction of the state of Israel"), he's constantly waffled between the two-state moderates and the one-staters depending on the situation. He really isn't a Muslim fundamentalist like Hamas (who, for those with a short memory, declared war on the PA a couple years back). Arafat IS a symbol to the Palestinians, more than he is an actual leader. If you talk to Palestinians on the street, they KNOW he's an incompetent fool, but the attitude is, "he's OUR incompetent fool." So expelling Arafat will do the following: --It will piss off the Palestinians --It will get him out of the country It will not accomplish anything else for the Israelis. Killing him would just piss off the Palestinians more.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

12th September 2003, 04:52 AM	#15
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,519	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra Zep The term "in principle" means that the political decision won't be put in effect immediately but it's an official decision of the Israeli government. svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks. Uh, dude, do a google on "Arafat condemns attacks." One quote popped up in the top ten: "'I condemn the attacks carried out by terrorist groups against Israeli civilians,' Arafat wrote in an editorial published on Sunday in The New York Times. 'These groups do not represent the Palestinian people or their legitimate aspirations for freedom. They are terrorist organisations. Palestinians are ready to end the conflict,' Arafat wrote." That's not particularly vague....
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

12th September 2003, 06:35 AM	#16
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744	Cleon wrote: "Uh, dude, do a google on "Arafat condemns attacks." One quote popped up in the top ten: "'I condemn the attacks carried out by terrorist groups against Israeli civilians,' Arafat wrote in an editorial published on Sunday in The New York Times. 'These groups do not represent the Palestinian people or their legitimate aspirations for freedom. They are terrorist organisations. Palestinians are ready to end the conflict,' Arafat wrote." That's not particularly vague...." It`s not particularly vaugue and neither is this: "July 24 2002 - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Tuesday congratulated his forces on the air strike that killed the military leader Hamas in Gaza, along with 13 civilians, including eight children. While the U.S. did not comment on the F-16 attack, the Palestinian Authority said it will file a complaint with the International Criminal Court (ICC). Sharon called the raid on Gaza City that killed a total of 15 people "one of the most successful operations" to have been carried out by Israel's forces, Israeli Army Radio said, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP)." As far as terrorism goes, Sharon leaves Arafat in the shadow of his hateful blubber. To talk of expelling Arafat while keeping Sharon there, as leader of Israel shows how far we in the west have sunk into the double standards that the rest of the world sees so clearly. Sharon, who President Bush called "a man of peace", is a blatent war criminal. Most of us have stepped in things that have more humanity and compassion than this piece of work.
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744

12th September 2003, 08:22 AM	#17
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	Quote: Originally posted by Cleopatra svero Apart from the fact that Arafat has been connected with specific militants of Hamas, he has never condemned its terrorists attacks. Apart from vague statements and wishful thinking he has never referred directly to Hamas when he talks about their terrorist attacks. Hmm..well not condemning or even being associated with Hamas doesn't necessarily imply total control of the organization or all organizations. I've never really been convinced that Arafat has as much power as the Israelis let on in terms of stopping terrorism. I've always pretty much believed that to be a political tool. I was very surprised that they voted to expel him because I think he actually serves certain Israeli interests, but I guess he's not actually gone yet.
svero Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 217	__________________ 'The idea that (technology) takes away mystery or awe or wonder in nature is wrong. It's quite the opposite. It's much more wonderful to know what something's really like than to sit there and just simply, in ignorance, say, "Oooh, isn't it wonderful?"' - Richard Feynman

12th September 2003, 04:04 PM	#18
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,326	Looks like Cleopatra is right. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...341772107.html The Israeli cabinet has made his day.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

12th September 2003, 04:36 PM	#19
dsm Muse Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 970	Quote: Originally posted by Zep There MUST be a way to "ease" Arafat out without resorting to any actions that would make him a martyr - that would be the last thing to bring any peace. How about expelling him from the Palestinian sector to the Israeli sector? Why not take him to Tel Aviv and have him work and live in close proximity to the things the bombers are bombing? The Israelis can claim it as the way for Arafat to show his commitment to the peace plan by living and working with the Israelis...
	__________________ DSM

13th September 2003, 09:40 PM	#20
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Originally posted by dsm How about expelling him from the Palestinian sector to the Israeli sector? Why not take him to Tel Aviv and have him work and live in close proximity to the things the bombers are bombing? The Israelis can claim it as the way for Arafat to show his commitment to the peace plan by living and working with the Israelis... Don't know if the smilie means you are joking...but I'll accept this as a reasonable response. Would he go, though? Can it be accomplished without seeming to "kidnapping" him? I'm just worried that someone on either side will do something TOO rash that will start an all-out war again. (And yes, I agree, suicide bombings and pinpoint retaliation is not trivial.) That way is just madness for everyone...
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985