A Magic show that left me in shock.

yairhol · 4th November 2007, 12:09 AM

Hi guys and gals,
last friday I was invited to a Citibank gathering. The host of the show was an Israeli magician called "Ron Ferscht" (not sure about the spelling). Anyway, between Citibank managers' speeches he did some nice magic but what got me in shock were his last bits of magic.
1. He called out 2 guys from the audience and sitted them facing in different directions with blindfolds on. He then told them to hold hands for a couple of seconds and to let go. Then he went to one of the guys and touched his shoulder twice. He asked "who felt something?". They both raised their hands. "How many times did you feel it?". They both raised their hands showing 2 with their fingers. Then he asked "and where did you feel it?" and they both pointed to their shoulders. He repeated this by touching the knee of one of them while the other guy 'felt' it also and pointed to his knee. And then he did the same with touching the nose of one of them with the other also feeling the number of times and where he touched.
2. While they were sitting away from eachother and with blindfolds the magician told one of the guys to do 'something' with his hand. The guy put his thumb up. Then the other guy was asked if he has any image coming to his head and if so then he should do it. He raised his thumb up!!!
This was repeated for several times with the first guy doing random movements with his arm and the other guy knowing exactly what he did.
3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person. This made him jump from his chair. Then this was repeated for several times on different occasions. But at the end, he faced the first guy and told him "thank you for participating, please get up from the chair....if you can". The guy got up, no problem. Then the magician told the other guy "thank you also for participating. Please get up from the chair....if you can" and the guy could not get up. He was as if glued to the chair. Of course the only way to get him out of the chair was using the electrocution thing which happened when the magician touched the first guy's finger which made the second guy jump up from his chair.

Have you guys ever heard of such magic tricks? This was totally new to me and left me thinking about it for days.

Regards,
Yair

NobbyNobbs · 4th November 2007, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by yairhol

3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person.

My understanding of the word "electrocution" is that there's a death involved. If that was the case, it would be quite an impressive show.

I don't know squat about mentalist tricks. My best guess is that his two "volunteers" were accomplices.

DJM · 4th November 2007, 01:24 AM

Your best guess is wrong, it can all be done with random audience members.. which is probably the way they were chosen at the show.

Ron is a great magiacian/mentalist, and those effects sound like the basic stuff you see at mentalism shows. The secrets are simple (as they usually are), but it should never be about that. It should be about shocking the audience, which seems like what happened in Yair's case.

That's the power of magic.

yairhol · 4th November 2007, 02:33 AM

NobbyNobbs, I'm pretty sure they were not accomplices because when the magician asked the guys up he wanted volunteers and for long seconds nobody volunteered. Evantually he tried to convince the two to come up.

DJM, where do you know Ron from?

Regards,
Yair

DJM · 4th November 2007, 10:48 AM

I'm also from Israel, Ron is pretty well known here.

Azrael 5 · 5th November 2007, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by yairhol

Hi guys and gals,
last friday I was invited to a Citibank gathering. The host of the show was an Israeli magician called "Ron Ferscht" (not sure about the spelling). Anyway, between Citibank managers' speeches he did some nice magic but what got me in shock were his last bits of magic.
1. He called out 2 guys from the audience and sitted them facing in different directions with blindfolds on. He then told them to hold hands for a couple of seconds and to let go. Then he went to one of the guys and touched his shoulder twice. He asked "who felt something?". They both raised their hands. "How many times did you feel it?". They both raised their hands showing 2 with their fingers. Then he asked "and where did you feel it?" and they both pointed to their shoulders. He repeated this by touching the knee of one of them while the other guy 'felt' it also and pointed to his knee. And then he did the same with touching the nose of one of them with the other also feeling the number of times and where he touched.
2. While they were sitting away from eachother and with blindfolds the magician told one of the guys to do 'something' with his hand. The guy put his thumb up. Then the other guy was asked if he has any image coming to his head and if so then he should do it. He raised his thumb up!!!
This was repeated for several times with the first guy doing random movements with his arm and the other guy knowing exactly what he did.
3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person. This made him jump from his chair. Then this was repeated for several times on different occasions. But at the end, he faced the first guy and told him "thank you for participating, please get up from the chair....if you can". The guy got up, no problem. Then the magician told the other guy "thank you also for participating. Please get up from the chair....if you can" and the guy could not get up. He was as if glued to the chair. Of course the only way to get him out of the chair was using the electrocution thing which happened when the magician touched the first guy's finger which made the second guy jump up from his chair.

Have you guys ever heard of such magic tricks? This was totally new to me and left me thinking about it for days.

Regards,
Yair

Paul Daniels did it better you bitch!

Electric chairs routine based on an old routine called Zapped! With a Banachek effect thrown in.
Derren Brown performed similiar in his Mind Control series with a set of twins.May be on YouTube.

firecoins · 10th November 2007, 06:00 PM

they can be random vollies.

yairhol · 10th November 2007, 11:07 PM

But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched?
That's just incredible.

pjh · 11th November 2007, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by yairhol

But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched?
That's just incredible.

It's possible because you're asking the wrong question. If you'd seen him cut a woman in half and put her back together, you wouldn't be asking the question "How is it possible that he cut a woman in two and put her back together?", you'd be asking a slightly different question - How did he trick me (and the audience) into thinking we'd seen a woman cut in half.

There's something about these mentalist effects that make people assume the trick 'actually happened', people forget that the 'magic' is in making you believe (ie tricking you) that something happened rather than actually making it happen if you know what I mean.

DJM · 11th November 2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by yairhol

But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched?
That's just incredible.

It's even more incredible how simple it is.

ChristineR · 11th November 2007, 12:36 PM

Banachek will sell you the secret for a reasonable fee...

Bob Klase · 11th November 2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by DJM

It's even more incredible how simple it is.

Somehow it just strikes me as strange that you'd say something like that and degrade the performance after all your posts about Callahan.

DJM · 11th November 2007, 03:08 PM

Bob, read my previous post in this thread.

Originally Posted by DJM

Your best guess is wrong, it can all be done with random audience members.. which is probably the way they were chosen at the show.

Ron is a great magiacian/mentalist, and those effects sound like the basic stuff you see at mentalism shows. The secrets are simple (as they usually are), but it should never be about that. It should be about shocking the audience, which seems like what happened in Yair's case.

That's the power of magic.

That's not degrading, many magicians say the same thing about magic. It's all about the presentation and fooling the audience. And I'm glad that it worked with Yair.

Saying the name of the effect on National TV right after the performance is over would be different, because the illusion is still strong in the audience minds and they have no right to know what it's called anyway. I'm glad to see people don't do that. Oh wait..

athon · 11th November 2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by DJM

It's even more incredible how simple it is.

I did this trick (the first part) once with a couple of students. The first time I did it I was completely stunned it worked. I spent the whole 'performance' swearing they'd pick up on it.

As with most mentalist tricks, it's all in the confidence and the performance.

Athon

DJM · 11th November 2007, 06:14 PM

Yeah, that's what I meant. Ususally the ones that are the most simple are those that I find most clever and powerful. Just shows that you don't always need to have expensive gimmicks in order to amaze the audience, only a very convincing presentation.

That's why this specific effect is one of my favorites.

Azrael 5 · 13th November 2007, 11:39 AM

I prefer Lior's method than Banacheks.The aura cleansing looks rather silly to me.

NeilC · 13th November 2007, 11:45 AM

The Derren Brown effect "Lift" (?) uses a similar principle and played right is astonishing...to the audience in general anyway.

DJM · 13th November 2007, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Splossy

The Derren Brown effect "Lift" (?) uses a similar principle and played right is astonishing...to the audience in general anyway.

Actually I don't really see the similarity, two different principles.

NeilC · 14th November 2007, 03:45 AM

Both Lift and PKT use the DR principle.

DJM · 14th November 2007, 08:47 AM

No, it doesn't. Maybe you are confusing Lift with Reminiscence that Derren used to do.

Lift uses a different principle, also very clever.

yairhol · 14th November 2007, 08:53 AM

That's all very interesting but I'm urging Lior to apply for the $1M challenge.
Clearly that guy has paranormal powers.

Regards,
Yair

Azrael 5 · 14th November 2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by DJM

No, it doesn't. Maybe you are confusing Lift with Reminiscence that Derren used to do.

Lift uses a different principle, also very clever.

Actually I would say Lift does use DR.

DJM · 14th November 2007, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

Actually I would say Lift does use DR.

Not really, unless you are talking about using a doctor. And even then it would be a bit unnecessary. Especially British doctors, they seem pretty weird.

NeilC · 15th November 2007, 02:22 AM

Sounds like we are talking about a different effect since Lift does use DR.

LIFT: A spectator’s arm is immobilised. Then controlled remotely, by the will of another volunteer.

How would doctors come into this?

JonWhite · 15th November 2007, 07:41 AM

Is "Lift" effect he does first on the International Magic Lecture DVD?

If so, I'd say DR as well for being the wonderfully simple but hugely misleading method.

Judging by mine, I have to agree with DJM about British doctors though.

DJM · 15th November 2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by NeilC

Sounds like we are talking about a different effect since Lift does use DR.

LIFT: A spectator’s arm is immobilised. Then controlled remotely, by the will of another volunteer.

How would doctors come into this?

Well, the main spectator is not involved in the DR, if that's what you mean. It's a different idea, which Derren even talks about in his first edition of Pure Effect.

4th November 2007, 12:09 AM	#1
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251	A Magic show that left me in shock. Hi guys and gals, last friday I was invited to a Citibank gathering. The host of the show was an Israeli magician called "Ron Ferscht" (not sure about the spelling). Anyway, between Citibank managers' speeches he did some nice magic but what got me in shock were his last bits of magic. 1. He called out 2 guys from the audience and sitted them facing in different directions with blindfolds on. He then told them to hold hands for a couple of seconds and to let go. Then he went to one of the guys and touched his shoulder twice. He asked "who felt something?". They both raised their hands. "How many times did you feel it?". They both raised their hands showing 2 with their fingers. Then he asked "and where did you feel it?" and they both pointed to their shoulders. He repeated this by touching the knee of one of them while the other guy 'felt' it also and pointed to his knee. And then he did the same with touching the nose of one of them with the other also feeling the number of times and where he touched. 2. While they were sitting away from eachother and with blindfolds the magician told one of the guys to do 'something' with his hand. The guy put his thumb up. Then the other guy was asked if he has any image coming to his head and if so then he should do it. He raised his thumb up!!! This was repeated for several times with the first guy doing random movements with his arm and the other guy knowing exactly what he did. 3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person. This made him jump from his chair. Then this was repeated for several times on different occasions. But at the end, he faced the first guy and told him "thank you for participating, please get up from the chair....if you can". The guy got up, no problem. Then the magician told the other guy "thank you also for participating. Please get up from the chair....if you can" and the guy could not get up. He was as if glued to the chair. Of course the only way to get him out of the chair was using the electrocution thing which happened when the magician touched the first guy's finger which made the second guy jump up from his chair. Have you guys ever heard of such magic tricks? This was totally new to me and left me thinking about it for days. Regards, Yair
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251

4th November 2007, 01:21 AM	#2
NobbyNobbs Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Mended Drum Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by yairhol 3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person. My understanding of the word "electrocution" is that there's a death involved. If that was the case, it would be quite an impressive show. I don't know squat about mentalist tricks. My best guess is that his two "volunteers" were accomplices.
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4th November 2007, 01:24 AM	#3
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Your best guess is wrong, it can all be done with random audience members.. which is probably the way they were chosen at the show. Ron is a great magiacian/mentalist, and those effects sound like the basic stuff you see at mentalism shows. The secrets are simple (as they usually are), but it should never be about that. It should be about shocking the audience, which seems like what happened in Yair's case. That's the power of magic.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

4th November 2007, 02:33 AM	#4
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251	NobbyNobbs, I'm pretty sure they were not accomplices because when the magician asked the guys up he wanted volunteers and for long seconds nobody volunteered. Evantually he tried to convince the two to come up. DJM, where do you know Ron from? Regards, Yair
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251

4th November 2007, 10:48 AM	#5
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	I'm also from Israel, Ron is pretty well known here.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

5th November 2007, 03:46 PM	#6
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,220	Originally Posted by yairhol Hi guys and gals, last friday I was invited to a Citibank gathering. The host of the show was an Israeli magician called "Ron Ferscht" (not sure about the spelling). Anyway, between Citibank managers' speeches he did some nice magic but what got me in shock were his last bits of magic. 1. He called out 2 guys from the audience and sitted them facing in different directions with blindfolds on. He then told them to hold hands for a couple of seconds and to let go. Then he went to one of the guys and touched his shoulder twice. He asked "who felt something?". They both raised their hands. "How many times did you feel it?". They both raised their hands showing 2 with their fingers. Then he asked "and where did you feel it?" and they both pointed to their shoulders. He repeated this by touching the knee of one of them while the other guy 'felt' it also and pointed to his knee. And then he did the same with touching the nose of one of them with the other also feeling the number of times and where he touched. 2. While they were sitting away from eachother and with blindfolds the magician told one of the guys to do 'something' with his hand. The guy put his thumb up. Then the other guy was asked if he has any image coming to his head and if so then he should do it. He raised his thumb up!!! This was repeated for several times with the first guy doing random movements with his arm and the other guy knowing exactly what he did. 3. There was a part where one of the two guys got electrocuted while the magician was speaking with the other person. This made him jump from his chair. Then this was repeated for several times on different occasions. But at the end, he faced the first guy and told him "thank you for participating, please get up from the chair....if you can". The guy got up, no problem. Then the magician told the other guy "thank you also for participating. Please get up from the chair....if you can" and the guy could not get up. He was as if glued to the chair. Of course the only way to get him out of the chair was using the electrocution thing which happened when the magician touched the first guy's finger which made the second guy jump up from his chair. Have you guys ever heard of such magic tricks? This was totally new to me and left me thinking about it for days. Regards, Yair Paul Daniels did it better you bitch! Electric chairs routine based on an old routine called Zapped! With a Banachek effect thrown in. Derren Brown performed similiar in his Mind Control series with a set of twins.May be on YouTube.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

10th November 2007, 06:00 PM	#7
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,065	they can be random vollies.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

10th November 2007, 11:07 PM	#8
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251	But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched? That's just incredible.
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251

11th November 2007, 03:23 AM	#9
pjh Thinker Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 216	Originally Posted by yairhol But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched? That's just incredible. It's possible because you're asking the wrong question. If you'd seen him cut a woman in half and put her back together, you wouldn't be asking the question "How is it possible that he cut a woman in two and put her back together?", you'd be asking a slightly different question - How did he trick me (and the audience) into thinking we'd seen a woman cut in half. There's something about these mentalist effects that make people assume the trick 'actually happened', people forget that the 'magic' is in making you believe (ie tricking you) that something happened rather than actually making it happen if you know what I mean.
pjh Thinker Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 216

11th November 2007, 11:50 AM	#10
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Originally Posted by yairhol But how is it possible that one guy felt where the other was touched? That's just incredible. It's even more incredible how simple it is.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

11th November 2007, 12:36 PM	#11
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,071	Banachek will sell you the secret for a reasonable fee...
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,071	__________________ Avatar (c) Neopets.com

11th November 2007, 01:57 PM	#12
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by DJM It's even more incredible how simple it is. Somehow it just strikes me as strange that you'd say something like that and degrade the performance after all your posts about Callahan.

11th November 2007, 03:08 PM	#13
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Bob, read my previous post in this thread. Originally Posted by DJM Your best guess is wrong, it can all be done with random audience members.. which is probably the way they were chosen at the show. Ron is a great magiacian/mentalist, and those effects sound like the basic stuff you see at mentalism shows. The secrets are simple (as they usually are), but it should never be about that. It should be about shocking the audience, which seems like what happened in Yair's case. That's the power of magic. That's not degrading, many magicians say the same thing about magic. It's all about the presentation and fooling the audience. And I'm glad that it worked with Yair. Saying the name of the effect on National TV right after the performance is over would be different, because the illusion is still strong in the audience minds and they have no right to know what it's called anyway. I'm glad to see people don't do that. Oh wait..
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

11th November 2007, 05:09 PM	#14
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Upside the Inside Posts: 9,183	Originally Posted by DJM It's even more incredible how simple it is. I did this trick (the first part) once with a couple of students. The first time I did it I was completely stunned it worked. I spent the whole 'performance' swearing they'd pick up on it. As with most mentalist tricks, it's all in the confidence and the performance. Athon
	__________________ "Whether you're soar-away Sun, or BBC 1, misinformation is a weapon of mass destruction." 'Mass Destruction', Faithless Last edited by athon; 11th November 2007 at 05:10 PM.

11th November 2007, 06:14 PM	#15
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Yeah, that's what I meant. Ususally the ones that are the most simple are those that I find most clever and powerful. Just shows that you don't always need to have expensive gimmicks in order to amaze the audience, only a very convincing presentation. That's why this specific effect is one of my favorites.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

13th November 2007, 11:39 AM	#16
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,220	I prefer Lior's method than Banacheks.The aura cleansing looks rather silly to me.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

13th November 2007, 11:45 AM	#17
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	The Derren Brown effect "Lift" (?) uses a similar principle and played right is astonishing...to the audience in general anyway.

13th November 2007, 12:01 PM	#18
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Originally Posted by Splossy The Derren Brown effect "Lift" (?) uses a similar principle and played right is astonishing...to the audience in general anyway. Actually I don't really see the similarity, two different principles.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

14th November 2007, 03:45 AM	#19
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	Both Lift and PKT use the DR principle.

14th November 2007, 08:47 AM	#20
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	No, it doesn't. Maybe you are confusing Lift with Reminiscence that Derren used to do. Lift uses a different principle, also very clever.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

14th November 2007, 08:53 AM	#21
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251	That's all very interesting but I'm urging Lior to apply for the $1M challenge. Clearly that guy has paranormal powers. Regards, Yair
yairhol Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,251

14th November 2007, 02:41 PM	#22
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,220	Originally Posted by DJM No, it doesn't. Maybe you are confusing Lift with Reminiscence that Derren used to do. Lift uses a different principle, also very clever. Actually I would say Lift does use DR.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

14th November 2007, 03:37 PM	#23
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 Actually I would say Lift does use DR. Not really, unless you are talking about using a doctor. And even then it would be a bit unnecessary. Especially British doctors, they seem pretty weird.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 14th November 2007 at 03:47 PM.

15th November 2007, 02:22 AM	#24
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	Sounds like we are talking about a different effect since Lift does use DR. LIFT: A spectator’s arm is immobilised. Then controlled remotely, by the will of another volunteer. How would doctors come into this?

15th November 2007, 07:41 AM	#25
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	Is "Lift" effect he does first on the International Magic Lecture DVD? If so, I'd say DR as well for being the wonderfully simple but hugely misleading method. Judging by mine, I have to agree with DJM about British doctors though.
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland

15th November 2007, 08:43 AM	#26
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Originally Posted by NeilC Sounds like we are talking about a different effect since Lift does use DR. LIFT: A spectator’s arm is immobilised. Then controlled remotely, by the will of another volunteer. How would doctors come into this? Well, the main spectator is not involved in the DR, if that's what you mean. It's a different idea, which Derren even talks about in his first edition of Pure Effect.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783