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triadboy · 8th November 2007, 11:34 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/...OTAZCItIUDW7oF

Quote:

"The only solution is rain, and the only place we get that is from a higher power," Perdue spokesman Bert Brantley said on Wednesday.

Quote:

How does rain form?

Water droplets form from warm air. As the warm air rises in the sky it cools. Water vapor (invisible water in the air) always exists in our air. Warm air holds quite a bit of water. For example, in the summer it is usually very humid. When enough of these droplets collect together, we see them as clouds. If the clouds are big enough and have enough water droplets, the droplets bang together and form even bigger drops. When the drops get heavy, they fall because of gravity, and you see and feel rain.

http://www.weatherwizkids.com/Rain.htm

Are Georgians praying to the "invisible water in the air"?

Cainkane1 · 8th November 2007, 11:36 AM

It can't hurt. Maybe it will make some people feel better.

triadboy · 8th November 2007, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

It can't hurt. Maybe it will make some people feel better.

It hurts the ignorant and the young - who see their Govenor adhering to superstition!

DoubtingStephen · 8th November 2007, 11:46 AM

Nothing fails like prayer

Skibum · 8th November 2007, 12:26 PM

I didn't pray and we ended up with 6 inches of rain that ended our drought, God loves Virginia more than Georgia.

Ralph · 8th November 2007, 04:20 PM

Fail,schmail.......

Eventually--it'll rain.

God's probably just far too busy now fixing sporting events.

DoubtingStephen · 8th November 2007, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ralph

Fail,schmail.......

Eventually--it'll rain.

God's probably just far too busy now fixing sporting events.

I hear ya, every time my team loses I blame God for interfering.

Björn Toulouse · 8th November 2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by DoubtingStephen

Nothing fails like prayer

The governor will host a prayer service next week to ask for relief from the drought gripping the Southeast.

"The only solution is rain, and the only place we get that is from a higher power," Perdue spokesman Bert Brantley said on Wednesday.

Perdue's office has sent out invitations to leaders from several faiths for the service, set for Tuesday.

I wonder how many of the attendees will have faith enough to take an umbrella?

DoubtingStephen · 8th November 2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse

Perdue's office has sent out invitations to leaders from several faiths for the service, set for Tuesday.

With the Governor himself being a Baptist I don't see how he can justify allowing heathen and infidel so called "religious" leaders to appear. Won't that just piss God off even more than She is already?

Obviously this draught is God's judgment on the people of Georgia for voting Republican.

Cleon · 8th November 2007, 04:55 PM

To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this.

This Guy · 8th November 2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this.

Though likely to be no more effective than the other stuff he didn't do

Maybe he's trying to divert the blame to god?

After this, he can say, "well, we asked god for help, it's in his hands now!."

Cleon · 8th November 2007, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by This Guy

Though likely to be no more effective than the other stuff he didn't do

Maybe he's trying to divert the blame to god?

After this, he can say, "well, we asked god for help, it's in his hands now!."

Well, it's not completely Perdue's fault, either. The inability of city or state leaders to plan for this kind of stuff goes back a couple of decades at least.

I ranted about this in my blog last week if anyone's interested.

fuelair · 8th November 2007, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this.

But, he supposedly makes great chickens!!!

triadboy · 8th November 2007, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by DoubtingStephen

With the Governor himself being a Baptist I don't see how he can justify allowing heathen and infidel so called "religious" leaders to appear. Won't that just piss God off even more than She is already?.

Georgia should truck in some praying Jews and Muslims. Their God is the Old Testament God, Yahweh. Oh, I think he can make it rain.

Mel Odious · 8th November 2007, 09:41 PM

I don't know what to make of a God who first needs to be told what's going on and then needs to be instructed what to do about it.

ToddH · 13th November 2007, 12:09 PM

What a freakin' embarrassment to my home state.

If people want to pray to an invisible sky daddy for rain, then more power to them. But to do it using tax dollars on government property (and led by our governor) is beyond disgraceful. Religion and government do not mix.

Myriad · 13th November 2007, 12:41 PM

Sometimes part of a Governor's job is to make people feel better about a circumstance that no one can do anything about, to help them stay united as a community and deal with the consequences (from inconvenient to devastating) as cooperatively and amiably as possible.

So, for those objecting here, it's better-solutions time. Come up with a better (and comparably economical) way to make lots of people feel a little better about the trying situation, and every Governor in the nation will thank you for it.

Or go on tilting against everything not entirely rational. For your next worthy target, I'd suggest issuing a ringing condemnation, backed by every bit of medical evidence available, of moms who claim to "kiss it and make it better" when their kids scrape their knees.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Cleon · 13th November 2007, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Myriad

So, for those objecting here, it's better-solutions time. Come up with a better (and comparably economical) way to make lots of people feel a little better about the trying situation, and every Governor in the nation will thank you for it.

Well, for starters, how about Perdue get off his lazy butt and start organizing efforts to find new sources of water? His only concrete action has been to try and pressure the Army Corps of Engineers to stop releases of water from Lake Lanier--hey, that's great, but in the long run, it's not going to help. Even in the short term, the likelihood that it will keep us supplied with water is slim at best.

Atlanta is growing too quickly for Lanier to supply us with water. Even if we get hit with a monsoon and the drought ends tomorrow, the next time we get hit with one it's going to be much, much worse.

Sorry, maybe I'm just weird, actually suggesting that Perdue do something constructive to keep us supplied with drinking water. But it's not a matter of "feeling better" about the situation. We don't need to "feel better." We need water, dammit! Warm and fuzzy feelings are great, but really, water is a wee bit more important right now.

tkingdoll · 13th November 2007, 01:05 PM

Wowee, this is proper dark ages stuff.

What next? Virgin sacrifice?

wahrheit · 13th November 2007, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Wowee, this is proper dark ages stuff.

What next? Virgin sacrifice?

No kidding, before reading your post I thought something like "That's even worse than what people might have thought in medieval times."

Praying for water from the sky sounds more like Stonehenge to me.

DoubtingStephen · 13th November 2007, 01:53 PM

So, much rain in Georgia lately? Nothing fails like prayer!

Btodd · 13th November 2007, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Or go on tilting against everything not entirely rational. For your next worthy target, I'd suggest issuing a ringing condemnation, backed by every bit of medical evidence available, of moms who claim to "kiss it and make it better" when their kids scrape their knees.

Respectfully,
Myriad

I think it's rather telling that you had to use an example of what we tell little children as an excuse for why we should let prominent adults act like them.

Some questions I have:

1. Is God not aware of the drought already?
2. Has nobody prayed to him about it already?
3. Is God waiting on a quota of minimum number of prayers before he acts?
4. Is doing this publicly on the steps of the Capitol somehow more effective
than in private?

Btodd

Myriad · 13th November 2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Well, for starters, how about Perdue get off his lazy butt and start organizing efforts to find new sources of water? His only concrete action has been to try and pressure the Army Corps of Engineers to stop releases of water from Lake Lanier--hey, that's great, but in the long run, it's not going to help. Even in the short term, the likelihood that it will keep us supplied with water is slim at best.

Atlanta is growing too quickly for Lanier to supply us with water. Even if we get hit with a monsoon and the drought ends tomorrow, the next time we get hit with one it's going to be much, much worse.

Long-term solutions are one thing, public gestures in mid-crisis are another. If the governor's failure to act decisively on the former (most likely because all solutions involve big spending which his consituents won't be happy about) is the issue, then criticize him for that, instead of for praying. After all, those actions are not mutually exclusive, and an afternoon prayer service will not set back all other state government work by a detectable amount).

And if that's the real issue why isn't the title of this thread "Georgia government fails to take necessary measure to solve water supply problems" instead of "Georgia turns to prayer to ease drought"? It seems to me like you're doing the same thing you're complaining about Perdue doing: focusing on the symbolic actions instead of the real issue.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Cleon · 13th November 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Myriad

Long-term solutions are one thing, public gestures in mid-crisis are another. If the governor's failure to act decisively on the former (most likely because all solutions involve big spending which his consituents won't be happy about) is the issue, then criticize him for that, instead of for praying.

Apparently you didn't bother reading my other posts in this thread, or else you'd realize that I've done exactly that.

Quote:

After all, those actions are not mutually exclusive, and an afternoon prayer service will not set back all other state government work by a detectable amount).

Again--we don't need warm and fuzzy feelings. We need water. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Perdue for spending time on worthless gestures rather than actually working to fix the problem.

If you don't agree, that's fine, but I remind you that you aren't wondering if you're going to be able to take a shower three months from now.

Myriad · 13th November 2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Btodd

I think it's rather telling that you had to use an example of what we tell little children as an excuse for why we should let prominent adults act like them.

If you examine the analogy, I think you'll see that the prominent adult here, the governor, is being likened to the mother, not the child.

Yes, that does leave large segments of the public in the role of the child. Which I admit is highly unrealistic. I read a lot of news and I hardly ever see examples of large groups of people responding to events in a childish way. (But after all, analogies only go so far.)

So, at what age do people completely outgrow all need or desire for comforting gestures?

Quote:

Some questions I have:

1. Is God not aware of the drought already?

I don't know.

Quote:

2. Has nobody prayed to him about it already?

I have no direct knowlege, but it seems overwhelmingly likely that many have.

Quote:

3. Is God waiting on a quota of minimum number of prayers before he acts?

I don't know.

Quote:

4. Is doing this publicly on the steps of the Capitol somehow more effective than in private?

Absolutely. Read what I said above about what the actual purpose of the service is.

Respectfully,
Myriad

JoeTheJuggler · 13th November 2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by triadboy

Georgia should truck in some praying Jews and Muslims. Their God is the Old Testament God, Yahweh. Oh, I think he can make it rain.

Not without building an Ark first.

It'd be better to just have the Native Americans do a rain dance.

Myriad · 13th November 2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Apparently you didn't bother reading my other posts in this thread, or else you'd realize that I've done exactly that.

I read your words, but I don't believe you're being entirely honest here. What seems to be upsetting you is the prayer, not the time off. If Perdue had spending those same few hours this afternoon reading My Pet Goat at a school or shaking hands at a fund-raiser would you have the same, equally strong, objections?

Quote:

Again--we don't need warm and fuzzy feelings. We need water. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Perdue for spending time on worthless gestures rather than actually working to fix the problem.

So apparently, you'd feel better if he ensconced himself in the state capital, working day and night with single-minded focus... on a problem that any competent governor should have long ago delegated to civil engineers, city planners, water-rights negotiators, lawyers, and other experts with the actual knowledge to address the problem.

But you don't want feel-good "worthless gestures."

Hmm.

Quote:

If you don't agree, that's fine, but I remind you that you aren't wondering if you're going to be able to take a shower three months from now.

No, I'm pretty sure the water supply here in southeastern PA is in good condition.

So, if it gets that bad, maybe you could come stay at my house. We (my wife and I) have plenty of room (um, I think... how large is your family?). You'll have to tolerate two small over-friendly dogs. Could you arrange to telecommute? My wife's an atheist; I'd expect some really interesting conversation.

Respectfully,
Myriad

tkingdoll · 13th November 2007, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by wahrheit

Praying for water from the sky sounds more like Stonehenge to me.

Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, if those guys had just sat around praying for those stones to move, we wouldn't have that tourist money today.

Stonehenge is a paragon of action compared to the antics of this load of nincompoops.

wahrheit · 13th November 2007, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, ...

Oops, I totally forgot you live on that island north of France.

I was, of course, only referring to a period in history long before the middle ages by using the term "Stonehenge".

Btodd · 13th November 2007, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Myriad

If you examine the analogy, I think you'll see that the prominent adult here, the governor, is being likened to the mother, not the child.

Yes, that does leave large segments of the public in the role of the child. Which I admit is highly unrealistic. I read a lot of news and I hardly ever see examples of large groups of people responding to events in a childish way. (But after all, analogies only go so far.)

So, at what age do people completely outgrow all need or desire for comforting gestures?

While this gesture may be comforting to some, that's not the purpose of the gesture. They really believe that petitioning God for rain can actually produce rain.

When it does rain, do you think they will reference the governor's 'comforting gesture' as getting them by until the physical conditions were right for rain? Of course not! They'll be thanking God for answering their prayers. In the meantime, God's lack of an answer will be written of as 'He hasn't answered yet' or 'sometimes the answer is no'.

It's a giant delusion, and it bothers me that in the year 2007, people in power actually believe that God is sitting up there, in his omniscience, waiting on the proper number of people to ask him to do something about a situation he, by definition, is already aware of. Worse yet is the fact that they're doing it publicly, so the idea that God is controlling (and intervening in) natural events is passed on to children, and the delusion can continue.

That's why I asked those particular questions. By definition, God already knows the problem. We can also safely assume that many people in Georgia have already been praying to Him for help. No answer yet, but maybe a public prayer at the Capitol will do it. I guess you have to call God out publicly?

Btodd

Cleon · 13th November 2007, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Myriad

I read your words, but I don't believe you're being entirely honest here.

Then we have nothing further to talk about. And this:

Quote:

Respectfully,
Myriad

Is definitely not "entirely honest."

grayman · 13th November 2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, if those guys had just sat around praying for those stones to move, we wouldn't have that tourist money today.

Stonehenge is a paragon of action compared to the antics of this load of nincompoops.

But Stonehenge ain't got nothin' on Carhenge.

8th November 2007, 11:34 AM	#1
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Georgia turns to prayer to ease drought http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/...OTAZCItIUDW7oF Quote: "The only solution is rain, and the only place we get that is from a higher power," Perdue spokesman Bert Brantley said on Wednesday. Quote: How does rain form? Water droplets form from warm air. As the warm air rises in the sky it cools. Water vapor (invisible water in the air) always exists in our air. Warm air holds quite a bit of water. For example, in the summer it is usually very humid. When enough of these droplets collect together, we see them as clouds. If the clouds are big enough and have enough water droplets, the droplets bang together and form even bigger drops. When the drops get heavy, they fall because of gravity, and you see and feel rain. http://www.weatherwizkids.com/Rain.htm Are Georgians praying to the "invisible water in the air"?

8th November 2007, 11:36 AM	#2
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,237	It can't hurt. Maybe it will make some people feel better.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

8th November 2007, 11:46 AM	#4
DoubtingStephen Queer Propagandist Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,548	Nothing fails like prayer
	__________________ God Hates Mixed Fibers God Hates Barbers God Hates Crustaceans

8th November 2007, 04:23 PM	#7
DoubtingStephen Queer Propagandist Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,548	Originally Posted by Ralph Fail,schmail....... Eventually--it'll rain. God's probably just far too busy now fixing sporting events. I hear ya, every time my team loses I blame God for interfering.
	__________________ God Hates Mixed Fibers God Hates Barbers God Hates Crustaceans

8th November 2007, 04:42 PM	#8
Björn Toulouse Cavitus Rectum Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: miles from Nowhere Posts: 1,407	Originally Posted by DoubtingStephen Nothing fails like prayer The governor will host a prayer service next week to ask for relief from the drought gripping the Southeast. "The only solution is rain, and the only place we get that is from a higher power," Perdue spokesman Bert Brantley said on Wednesday. Perdue's office has sent out invitations to leaders from several faiths for the service, set for Tuesday. I wonder how many of the attendees will have faith enough to take an umbrella?
	__________________ The most complete and happy victory is this: to compel one's enemy to give up his purpose, while suffering no harm oneself. Belisarius

8th November 2007, 11:41 AM	#3
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 It can't hurt. Maybe it will make some people feel better. It hurts the ignorant and the young - who see their Govenor adhering to superstition!

8th November 2007, 12:26 PM	#5
Skibum Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia Posts: 1,270	I didn't pray and we ended up with 6 inches of rain that ended our drought, God loves Virginia more than Georgia.

8th November 2007, 04:20 PM	#6
Ralph Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: S.E. Mass....... Posts: 997	Fail,schmail....... Eventually--it'll rain. God's probably just far too busy now fixing sporting events.

8th November 2007, 04:52 PM	#9
DoubtingStephen Queer Propagandist Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,548	Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse Perdue's office has sent out invitations to leaders from several faiths for the service, set for Tuesday. With the Governor himself being a Baptist I don't see how he can justify allowing heathen and infidel so called "religious" leaders to appear. Won't that just piss God off even more than She is already? Obviously this draught is God's judgment on the people of Georgia for voting Republican.
	__________________ God Hates Mixed Fibers God Hates Barbers God Hates Crustaceans

8th November 2007, 04:55 PM	#10
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,610	To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

8th November 2007, 05:00 PM	#11
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	Originally Posted by Cleon To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this. Though likely to be no more effective than the other stuff he didn't do Maybe he's trying to divert the blame to god? After this, he can say, "well, we asked god for help, it's in his hands now!."
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

8th November 2007, 05:03 PM	#12
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,610	Originally Posted by This Guy Though likely to be no more effective than the other stuff he didn't do Maybe he's trying to divert the blame to god? After this, he can say, "well, we asked god for help, it's in his hands now!." Well, it's not completely Perdue's fault, either. The inability of city or state leaders to plan for this kind of stuff goes back a couple of decades at least. I ranted about this in my blog last week if anyone's interested.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich Last edited by Cleon; 8th November 2007 at 05:04 PM.

8th November 2007, 05:03 PM	#13
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307	Originally Posted by Cleon To be fair...It's a heluva lot more than anything else Perdue has done about this. But, he supposedly makes great chickens!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,307

8th November 2007, 08:04 PM	#14
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Originally Posted by DoubtingStephen With the Governor himself being a Baptist I don't see how he can justify allowing heathen and infidel so called "religious" leaders to appear. Won't that just piss God off even more than She is already?. Georgia should truck in some praying Jews and Muslims. Their God is the Old Testament God, Yahweh. Oh, I think he can make it rain.

8th November 2007, 09:41 PM	#15
Mel Odious NWO Public Relations Dept. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Behind the times and proud of it Posts: 589	I don't know what to make of a God who first needs to be told what's going on and then needs to be instructed what to do about it.

13th November 2007, 12:09 PM	#16
ToddH Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Heart of the bible belt Posts: 337	What a freakin' embarrassment to my home state. If people want to pray to an invisible sky daddy for rain, then more power to them. But to do it using tax dollars on government property (and led by our governor) is beyond disgraceful. Religion and government do not mix.

13th November 2007, 12:41 PM	#17
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,218	Sometimes part of a Governor's job is to make people feel better about a circumstance that no one can do anything about, to help them stay united as a community and deal with the consequences (from inconvenient to devastating) as cooperatively and amiably as possible. So, for those objecting here, it's better-solutions time. Come up with a better (and comparably economical) way to make lots of people feel a little better about the trying situation, and every Governor in the nation will thank you for it. Or go on tilting against everything not entirely rational. For your next worthy target, I'd suggest issuing a ringing condemnation, backed by every bit of medical evidence available, of moms who claim to "kiss it and make it better" when their kids scrape their knees. Respectfully, Myriad
	__________________ The cosmos is a vast Loom, with time the warp and space the weft. We are all fruit of the Loom, unaware.

13th November 2007, 01:01 PM	#18
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,610	Originally Posted by Myriad So, for those objecting here, it's better-solutions time. Come up with a better (and comparably economical) way to make lots of people feel a little better about the trying situation, and every Governor in the nation will thank you for it. Well, for starters, how about Perdue get off his lazy butt and start organizing efforts to find new sources of water? His only concrete action has been to try and pressure the Army Corps of Engineers to stop releases of water from Lake Lanier--hey, that's great, but in the long run, it's not going to help. Even in the short term, the likelihood that it will keep us supplied with water is slim at best. Atlanta is growing too quickly for Lanier to supply us with water. Even if we get hit with a monsoon and the drought ends tomorrow, the next time we get hit with one it's going to be much, much worse. Sorry, maybe I'm just weird, actually suggesting that Perdue do something constructive to keep us supplied with drinking water. But it's not a matter of "feeling better" about the situation. We don't need to "feel better." We need *water*, dammit! Warm and fuzzy feelings are great, but really, water is a wee bit more important right now.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

13th November 2007, 01:05 PM	#19
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	Wowee, this is proper dark ages stuff. What next? Virgin sacrifice?
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

13th November 2007, 01:32 PM	#20
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	Originally Posted by tkingdoll Wowee, this is proper dark ages stuff. What next? Virgin sacrifice? No kidding, before reading your post I thought something like "That's even worse than what people might have thought in medieval times." Praying for water from the sky sounds more like Stonehenge to me.
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	__________________ For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. D. Adams -- THHGTTG You're a sick man. The Atheist

13th November 2007, 01:53 PM	#21
DoubtingStephen Queer Propagandist Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,548	So, much rain in Georgia lately? Nothing fails like prayer!
	__________________ God Hates Mixed Fibers God Hates Barbers God Hates Crustaceans

13th November 2007, 02:07 PM	#22
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258	Originally Posted by Myriad Or go on tilting against everything not entirely rational. For your next worthy target, I'd suggest issuing a ringing condemnation, backed by every bit of medical evidence available, of moms who claim to "kiss it and make it better" when their kids scrape their knees. Respectfully, Myriad I think it's rather telling that you had to use an example of what we tell little children as an excuse for why we should let prominent adults act like them. Some questions I have: 1. Is God not aware of the drought already? 2. Has nobody prayed to him about it already? 3. Is God waiting on a quota of minimum number of prayers before he acts? 4. Is doing this publicly on the steps of the Capitol somehow more effective than in private? Btodd
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258

13th November 2007, 02:19 PM	#23
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,218	Originally Posted by Cleon Well, for starters, how about Perdue get off his lazy butt and start organizing efforts to find new sources of water? His only concrete action has been to try and pressure the Army Corps of Engineers to stop releases of water from Lake Lanier--hey, that's great, but in the long run, it's not going to help. Even in the short term, the likelihood that it will keep us supplied with water is slim at best. Atlanta is growing too quickly for Lanier to supply us with water. Even if we get hit with a monsoon and the drought ends tomorrow, the next time we get hit with one it's going to be much, much worse. Long-term solutions are one thing, public gestures in mid-crisis are another. If the governor's failure to act decisively on the former (most likely because all solutions involve big spending which his consituents won't be happy about) is the issue, then criticize him for that, instead of for praying. After all, those actions are not mutually exclusive, and an afternoon prayer service will not set back all other state government work by a detectable amount). And if that's the real issue why isn't the title of this thread "Georgia government fails to take necessary measure to solve water supply problems" instead of "Georgia turns to prayer to ease drought"? It seems to me like you're doing the same thing you're complaining about Perdue doing: focusing on the symbolic actions instead of the real issue. Respectfully, Myriad
	__________________ The cosmos is a vast Loom, with time the warp and space the weft. We are all fruit of the Loom, unaware.

13th November 2007, 02:26 PM	#24
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,610	Originally Posted by Myriad Long-term solutions are one thing, public gestures in mid-crisis are another. If the governor's failure to act decisively on the former (most likely because all solutions involve big spending which his consituents won't be happy about) is the issue, then criticize him for that, instead of for praying. Apparently you didn't bother reading my other posts in this thread, or else you'd realize that I've done exactly that. Quote: After all, those actions are not mutually exclusive, and an afternoon prayer service will not set back all other state government work by a detectable amount). Again--we don't need warm and fuzzy feelings. We need water. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Perdue for spending time on worthless gestures rather than actually working to fix the problem. If you don't agree, that's fine, but I remind you that you aren't wondering if you're going to be able to take a shower three months from now.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich Last edited by Cleon; 13th November 2007 at 02:26 PM.

13th November 2007, 02:35 PM	#25
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,218	Originally Posted by Btodd I think it's rather telling that you had to use an example of what we tell little children as an excuse for why we should let prominent adults act like them. If you examine the analogy, I think you'll see that the prominent adult here, the governor, is being likened to the mother, not the child. Yes, that does leave large segments of the public in the role of the child. Which I admit is highly unrealistic. I read a lot of news and I hardly ever see examples of large groups of people responding to events in a childish way. (But after all, analogies only go so far.) So, at what age do people completely outgrow all need or desire for comforting gestures? Quote: Some questions I have: 1. Is God not aware of the drought already? I don't know. Quote: 2. Has nobody prayed to him about it already? I have no direct knowlege, but it seems overwhelmingly likely that many have. Quote: 3. Is God waiting on a quota of minimum number of prayers before he acts? I don't know. Quote: 4. Is doing this publicly on the steps of the Capitol somehow more effective than in private? Absolutely. Read what I said above about what the actual purpose of the service is. Respectfully, Myriad
	__________________ The cosmos is a vast Loom, with time the warp and space the weft. We are all fruit of the Loom, unaware.

13th November 2007, 02:43 PM	#26
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 27,168	Originally Posted by triadboy Georgia should truck in some praying Jews and Muslims. Their God is the Old Testament God, Yahweh. Oh, I think he can make it rain. Not without building an Ark first. It'd be better to just have the Native Americans do a rain dance.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

13th November 2007, 03:07 PM	#27
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,218	Originally Posted by Cleon Apparently you didn't bother reading my other posts in this thread, or else you'd realize that I've done exactly that. I read your words, but I don't believe you're being entirely honest here. What seems to be upsetting you is the prayer, not the time off. If Perdue had spending those same few hours this afternoon reading My Pet Goat at a school or shaking hands at a fund-raiser would you have the same, equally strong, objections? Quote: Again--we don't need warm and fuzzy feelings. We need water. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Perdue for spending time on worthless gestures rather than actually working to fix the problem. So apparently, you'd feel better if he ensconced himself in the state capital, working day and night with single-minded focus... on a problem that any competent governor should have long ago delegated to civil engineers, city planners, water-rights negotiators, lawyers, and other experts with the actual knowledge to address the problem. But you don't want feel-good "worthless gestures." Hmm. Quote: If you don't agree, that's fine, but I remind you that you aren't wondering if you're going to be able to take a shower three months from now. No, I'm pretty sure the water supply here in southeastern PA is in good condition. So, if it gets that bad, maybe you could come stay at my house. We (my wife and I) have plenty of room (um, I think... how large is your family?). You'll have to tolerate two small over-friendly dogs. Could you arrange to telecommute? My wife's an atheist; I'd expect some really interesting conversation. Respectfully, Myriad
	__________________ The cosmos is a vast Loom, with time the warp and space the weft. We are all fruit of the Loom, unaware.

13th November 2007, 03:11 PM	#28
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	Originally Posted by wahrheit Praying for water from the sky sounds more like Stonehenge to me. Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, if those guys had just sat around praying for those stones to move, we wouldn't have that tourist money today. Stonehenge is a paragon of action compared to the antics of this load of nincompoops.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

13th November 2007, 03:31 PM	#29
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	Originally Posted by tkingdoll Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, ... Oops, I totally forgot you live on that island north of France. I was, of course, only referring to a period in history long before the middle ages by using the term "Stonehenge".
wahrheit Pac-Man Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,591	__________________ For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. D. Adams -- THHGTTG You're a sick man. The Atheist

13th November 2007, 03:36 PM	#30
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258	Originally Posted by Myriad If you examine the analogy, I think you'll see that the prominent adult here, the governor, is being likened to the mother, not the child. Yes, that does leave large segments of the public in the role of the child. Which I admit is highly unrealistic. I read a lot of news and I hardly ever see examples of large groups of people responding to events in a childish way. (But after all, analogies only go so far.) So, at what age do people completely outgrow all need or desire for comforting gestures? While this gesture may be comforting to some, that's not the purpose of the gesture. They really believe that petitioning God for rain can actually produce rain. When it does rain, do you think they will reference the governor's 'comforting gesture' as getting them by until the physical conditions were right for rain? Of course not! They'll be thanking God for answering their prayers. In the meantime, God's lack of an answer will be written of as 'He hasn't answered yet' or 'sometimes the answer is no'. It's a giant delusion, and it bothers me that in the year 2007, people in power actually believe that God is sitting up there, in his omniscience, waiting on the proper number of people to ask him to do something about a situation he, by definition, is already aware of. Worse yet is the fact that they're doing it publicly, so the idea that God is controlling (and intervening in) natural events is passed on to children, and the delusion can continue. That's why I asked those particular questions. By definition, God already knows the problem. We can also safely assume that many people in Georgia have already been praying to Him for help. No answer yet, but maybe a public prayer at the Capitol will do it. I guess you have to call God out publicly? Btodd
Btodd Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 258

13th November 2007, 04:32 PM	#31
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,610	Originally Posted by Myriad I read your words, but I don't believe you're being entirely honest here. Then we have nothing further to talk about. And this: Quote: Respectfully, Myriad Is definitely not "entirely honest."
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

13th November 2007, 04:42 PM	#32
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 6,142	Originally Posted by tkingdoll Hey, don't insult Stonehenge, if those guys had just sat around praying for those stones to move, we wouldn't have that tourist money today. Stonehenge is a paragon of action compared to the antics of this load of nincompoops. But Stonehenge ain't got nothin' on Carhenge.
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge