JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Reply
Old 10th November 2007, 12:02 PM   #1
JamesB
Master Poster
 
JamesB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,151
90 Peer Reviewed Papers

It just amazes me how dishonest these truthers are. I was watching this video of Steven Jones posted on 911 Blogger, in which he is bragging about his Journal of 911 Studies. He amazingly claims that they have published "90 peer reviewed papers", not once, but twice.

http://911blogger.com/node/12469

Now one can obviously make a good argument that what they have is not "peer reviewed", but it is not even true. If you go to their website (since this journal does not exist anywhere in the real world) you can see the headline at the top:

40 Articles

The guy is lying about the publishing of his own freaking journal.
__________________
I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago.
-David Ray Griffin-

Last edited by JamesB; 10th November 2007 at 12:04 PM. Reason: typo
JamesB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:04 PM   #2
Good Lt
Graduate Poster
 
Good Lt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Satellite of Love
Posts: 1,500
I am SHOCKED that the members of the Quote Mining for 9-11 Troof movement would stoop to such levels.
__________________
Sorrowful and great is the artist's destiny.
- Liszt

Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful.
- Ian Faith
Good Lt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:05 PM   #3
Mancman
Graduate Poster
 
Mancman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,010
Steven Jones would never lie, thus your claims are all fake.
__________________
R.I.P Dr. Adequate
Mancman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:07 PM   #4
CHF
Illuminator
 
CHF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,875
So he lies about thermite, lies about photos, lies about "peer-review" and is now lying about the number of articles he falsely claims are peer-reviewed.

Wow.

And this puke is the #1 scientist in the twoof movement.
CHF is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:10 PM   #5
Bell
beautiful freak
 
Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 21,335
Originally Posted by Mancman View Post
Steven Jones would never lie, thus your claims are all fake.
That JamesB has to resort to such low meassures
__________________
Every single day of my life has been worse than the day before it. So that means that every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life.

INY
You gotta love cops.
Bell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:16 PM   #6
R.Mackey
Philosopher
 
R.Mackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The armpit of L.A.
Posts: 7,857
Presumably Dr. Jones is referring to the "letters" as well to hit his total of 90.

Of course, we'll ignore for the moment that some of those letters refute some of the papers, some of the papers refute some others of the papers (e.g. Dr. Greening), or that none of them are peer-reviewed...

I'm still wondering just who he thinks he's fooling.
__________________
"Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai

VT VENIANT OMNES
R.Mackey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:17 PM   #7
OldTigerCub
Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid
 
OldTigerCub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Steeler Nation, Pa.
Posts: 1,633
At over an hour in length the video may not last long on YouTube, since they have that 10 minute rule...though even in 10 minute sections, it's 10 minutes too much for my "stupid absorber" to handle.
__________________
"Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe
OldTigerCub is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:18 PM   #8
JamesB
Master Poster
 
JamesB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Presumably Dr. Jones is referring to the "letters" as well to hit his total of 90.

Of course, we'll ignore for the moment that some of those letters refute some of the papers, some of the papers refute some others of the papers (e.g. Dr. Greening), or that none of them are peer-reviewed...

I'm still wondering just who he thinks he's fooling.

That is what I was thinking, but how anyone could consider them "peer reviewed papers" is beyond me. One of the letters is my exchange with Jones. One letter is a private e-mail I sent Laurie Manwell which I never intended to be "submitted" to a journal. One "peer reviewed paper" is Greg Palast apologizing for calling Jones a quack. Some elite academic research there.
__________________
I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago.
-David Ray Griffin-
JamesB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:19 PM   #9
uk_dave
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,866
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post

I'm still wondering just who he thinks he's fooling.
Bofors and 90% of LCF
uk_dave is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:20 PM   #10
DavidJames
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 8,208
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
I'm still wondering just who he thinks he's fooling.
Look around, some of them mingle among us. In fact, I expect a couple may just drop into this thread.
DavidJames is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:24 PM   #11
LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
Administrator
 
LashL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,297
Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
...I expect a couple may just drop into this thread.
Hopefully not on their heads. They seem to have had quite enough of that in their childhoods.
LashL is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:28 PM   #12
JamesB
Master Poster
 
JamesB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,151
Actually I should add, even one of his "40 peer reviewed papers" is nothing more than Jones' idiotic interview of Kevin Barrett in which he accuses Jews of every crime in history, and dances around the fact that over 3 million refugees have returned to Afghanistan since 9/11.

Yet another one is that idiotic Flying Elephants paper which they even admitted later was junk. A huge number of papers do nothing more than discredit the even stupider Star Wars theories. Hardly contributing much to the progress of science, but ironically that is among their best work.
__________________
I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago.
-David Ray Griffin-
JamesB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 12:32 PM   #13
CHF
Illuminator
 
CHF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,875
Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
A huge number of papers do nothing more than discredit the even stupider Star Wars theories. Hardly contributing much to the progress of science, but ironically that is among their best work.
Does that include Craig Jenkins' 56-page debunking of Judy Wood?
CHF is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 04:17 PM   #14
slyjoe
Graduate Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins
Posts: 1,031
This thread reminds me of the "Truthers - lying or not" thread. Steven Jones was in academia, he KNOWS what peer reviewed means. I would guess most truthers (and the public) do not. This to me is lying.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 04:23 PM   #15
T.A.M.
Keeper of the Kool-Vax
 
T.A.M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Far East...of Canada
Posts: 20,816
If your going to lie about everything else, why not about your accomplishments.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 04:30 PM   #16
Newtons Bit
Philosopher
 
Newtons Bit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,379
I specifically told them that the letter I sent in was not a submission to their journal. Now he's claiming it is a paper they've peer-reviewed and published? I'm pretty sure publishing someone else's work when they've specifically told you not to is illegal.
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein

My website.
Newtons Bit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 04:36 PM   #17
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 21,762
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
You have to wonder why lawyers can ask for such a great hourly rate?

MM
SPAM, short burst of spam;

No facts, just spam.

Jones is just like you; he makes up lies, like you make up spam. Other than the spam, what do you think about Jones and his journal of woo?

Last edited by beachnut; 10th November 2007 at 04:39 PM.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 04:53 PM   #18
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
 
gumboot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24,676
Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
I specifically told them that the letter I sent in was not a submission to their journal. Now he's claiming it is a paper they've peer-reviewed and published? I'm pretty sure publishing someone else's work when they've specifically told you not to is illegal.

It would be breach of copyright.

-Gumboot
__________________

O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde
keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.


A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.
gumboot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 05:37 PM   #19
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
 
Gravy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: In the argyle
Posts: 17,137
Can Jesus be far from Tijuana?
__________________
"Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard

What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
Gravy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 09:40 PM   #20
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,200
I wonder what it is like to be such a liar, with his pants constantly on fire?
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 09:45 PM   #21
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers
Posts: 11,766
Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
I wonder what it is like to be such a liar, with his pants constantly on fire?
Pants are expensive; I'd go broke if every pair I wore burst into flames.
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 09:46 PM   #22
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,200
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Pants are expensive; I'd go broke if every pair I wore burst into flames.
Mine only do it occasionally, and for a much different reason.
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling

Last edited by CptColumbo; 10th November 2007 at 09:47 PM.
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2007, 09:47 PM   #23
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers
Posts: 11,766
Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
Mine only do it occasionally, and for a much different reason.
Oh, I hate when THAT happens...
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 07:46 AM   #24
Swing Dangler
Graduate Poster
 
Swing Dangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,049
Prominent debunker can't add??

Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
It just amazes me how dishonest these truthers are. I was watching this video of Steven Jones posted on 911 Blogger, in which he is bragging about his Journal of 911 Studies. He amazingly claims that they have published "90 peer reviewed papers", not once, but twice.

http://911blogger.com/node/12469

Now one can obviously make a good argument that what they have is not "peer reviewed", but it is not even true. If you go to their website (since this journal does not exist anywhere in the real world) you can see the headline at the top:

40 Articles

The guy is lying about the publishing of his own freaking journal.
Lets review the definition of "paper":written or printed document or the like,
stationery; writing paper, a newspaper or journal, an essay, article, or dissertation on a particular topic: a paper on early Mayan artifacts.

Actually Genius, the Journal of 9/11 Studies has 90 "papers" listed. Those papers are divided up into 50 letters and 40 articles. Please revisit elementary school for the definition of paper and basic math...or just stop being deceitful..

I expect more from a debunker than that, JamesB.
.
__________________
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it."-John SKilling-Head Structural Engineer WTC-1993 Seattle Times
Swing Dangler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 07:53 AM   #25
SDC
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York area
Posts: 2,250
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
Lets review the definition of "paper":written or printed document or the like,
stationery; writing paper, a newspaper or journal, an essay, article, or dissertation on a particular topic: a paper on early Mayan artifacts.

Actually Genius, the Journal of 9/11 Studies has 90 "papers" listed. Those papers are divided up into 50 letters and 40 articles. Please revisit elementary school for the definition of paper and basic math...or just stop being deceitful..

I expect more from a debunker than that, JamesB.
.
Your statement is either intentionally deceitful or based on ignorance. Take your pick. In the academic world -- the one in which "peer review" is a concern -- letters or reviews or other brief and incidental communications are not regarded as papers. If on my professional CV I listed the like as "papers" I'd be laughed out of the room. How about this; don't try to defend or justify indefensible statements such as the 90 papers claim. It only makes you look very, very silly.

Oh yeah. CV = curriculum vitae, high-falutin' academic talk for resume.
SDC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:04 AM   #26
Newtons Bit
Philosopher
 
Newtons Bit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,379
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
Lets review the definition of "paper":written or printed document or the like,
stationery; writing paper, a newspaper or journal, an essay, article, or dissertation on a particular topic: a paper on early Mayan artifacts.

Actually Genius, the Journal of 9/11 Studies has 90 "papers" listed. Those papers are divided up into 50 letters and 40 articles. Please revisit elementary school for the definition of paper and basic math...or just stop being deceitful..

I expect more from a debunker than that, JamesB.
.
They published one of my letters. It is not peer-reviewed. Get it?
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein

My website.
Newtons Bit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:12 AM   #27
jsfisher
ETcorngods survivor
 
jsfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,445
Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
They published one of my letters. It is not peer-reviewed. Get it?
You are all being unfair about this whole peer-review thing. According to Merriam-Webster, a perfectly valid definition of "peer" is "companion."

Hire a hooker. Show her the article. Viola! Peer-reviewed.
__________________
A proud member of the Simpson 15+7, named in the suit, Simpson v. Zwinge, et al., and founder of the ET Corn Gods Survivors Group.

By the way, the Nominate button is to your right left, sort of..
jsfisher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:13 AM   #28
slyjoe
Graduate Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins
Posts: 1,031
Viola - is that her name or what she plays?
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:18 AM   #29
Swing Dangler
Graduate Poster
 
Swing Dangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,049
Originally Posted by SDC View Post
Your statement is either intentionally deceitful or based on ignorance. Take your pick. In the academic world -- the one in which "peer review" is a concern -- letters or reviews or other brief and incidental communications are not regarded as papers. If on my professional CV I listed the like as "papers" I'd be laughed out of the room. How about this; don't try to defend or justify indefensible statements such as the 90 papers claim. It only makes you look very, very silly.

Oh yeah. CV = curriculum vitae, high-falutin' academic talk for resume.
One, your reading comprehension skills and knowledge of vocabulary are lacking substantially to offer a rebuttal to my comment.

Lets take a look at my statement in regards to peer reviewed:

Quote:
Peer review (known as refereeing in some academic fields) is a process of subjecting an author's scholarly work, research or ideas to the scrutiny of others who are experts in the same field. It is used primarily by editors to select and to screen submitted manuscripts, and by funding agencies, to decide the awarding of grants. The peer review process aims to make authors meet the standards of their discipline, and of science in general. Publications and awards that have not undergone peer review are likely to be regarded with suspicion by scholars and professionals in many fields. Even refereed journals, however, can contain errors.-WIKI
Lets examine the definition of article-# A nonfictional literary composition that forms an independent part of a publication, as of a newspaper or magazine.

As you probably don't know, composition means: the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole. In this case letters and articles from the parts of the whole (Journal of 9/11 Studies). A short essay, especially one written as an academic exercise.

A letter is a written or printed communication addressed to a person or organization and usually transmitted by mail, in this case email.

Finally, your bunk is junk.

Quote:
Newtons Bit-They published one of my letters. It is not peer-reviewed. Get it
?
I didn't see the author, Newton's Bit, anywhere in the journal.
__________________
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it."-John SKilling-Head Structural Engineer WTC-1993 Seattle Times

Last edited by Swing Dangler; 11th November 2007 at 08:18 AM.
Swing Dangler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:22 AM   #30
Apollo20
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,426
There are journals that have titles like: "Chemical Physics Letters"; "Geophysical Letters";
"Physical Review Letters".......

Articles in these journals are considered to be on a par with papers in journals without the word "letters" in their titles. Some landmark papers were "letters". Papers are often submitted as "letters" because publication times are shorter and some researchers want a paper out in a hurry to avoid being scooped.

I think people are placing far too much importance on this issue and on the question of peer review. Some research is very difficult to review. For example, the chemical analysis of a corrosion deposit cannot be verified unless the reviewer has the same sample to work with.

I have seen falsified data submitted to the ASTM and accepted for publication. It's a fine line between "massaging" data and fudging data...

There is a famous misprint in a journal I have seen: "The data were plotted and produced a straight lie" (instead of "line"!)

I read papers in the Journal of 9/11 Studies and decide on the value of the paper on a case by case basis. I have seen a lot of junk papers in what are considered to be "good" journals....
Apollo20 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:25 AM   #31
Newtons Bit
Philosopher
 
Newtons Bit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,379
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
I didn't see the author, Newton's Bit, anywhere in the journal.
Letter to Gordon Ross June 12, 2007
Anonymous (NB: Anonymous letters are strongly discouraged)

You have an incredible investigative ability. And yes, that's sarcasm. And no, my letter is not peer-reviewed.
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein

My website.
Newtons Bit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:27 AM   #32
Par
Master Poster
 
Par's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,769
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
Lets examine the definition of article-# A nonfictional literary composition that forms an independent part of a publication, as of a newspaper or magazine.

As you probably don't know, composition means: the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole. In this case letters and articles from the parts of the whole (Journal of 9/11 Studies). A short essay, especially one written as an academic exercise.


Etymological Fallacy

Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
Finally, your bunk is junk.

What does this mean? Is it hip-hop language?

Last edited by Par; 11th November 2007 at 08:28 AM.
Par is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:30 AM   #33
Newtons Bit
Philosopher
 
Newtons Bit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,379
Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
I have seen a lot of junk papers in what are considered to be "good" journals....
I imagine that has something to do with the publish or perish philosophy in academia.
__________________
"Structural Engineering is the art of molding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot precisely analyze so as to understand forces we cannot really assess in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our own ignorance." James E Amrhein

My website.
Newtons Bit is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 08:37 AM   #34
SDC
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York area
Posts: 2,250
Originally Posted by Swing Dangler View Post
One, your reading comprehension skills and knowledge of vocabulary are lacking substantially to offer a rebuttal to my comment.

Lets take a look at my statement in regards to peer reviewed:



Lets examine the definition of article-# A nonfictional literary composition that forms an independent part of a publication, as of a newspaper or magazine.

As you probably don't know, composition means: the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole. In this case letters and articles from the parts of the whole (Journal of 9/11 Studies). A short essay, especially one written as an academic exercise.

A letter is a written or printed communication addressed to a person or organization and usually transmitted by mail, in this case email.

Finally, your bunk is junk.

?
I didn't see the author, Newton's Bit, anywhere in the journal.
This whole "response" ranks as one of the silliest bits of disconnected word-chopping since the glory days of, well, whatever. It really comes down to your apparent claim that JONES is a well-respected mainstream publication. Nope. It isn't.

Last edited by SDC; 11th November 2007 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Just one more sentence.
SDC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 09:52 AM   #35
T.A.M.
Keeper of the Kool-Vax
 
T.A.M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Far East...of Canada
Posts: 20,816
Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
There are journals that have titles like: "Chemical Physics Letters"; "Geophysical Letters";
"Physical Review Letters".......

Articles in these journals are considered to be on a par with papers in journals without the word "letters" in their titles. Some landmark papers were "letters". Papers are often submitted as "letters" because publication times are shorter and some researchers want a paper out in a hurry to avoid being scooped.

I think people are placing far too much importance on this issue and on the question of peer review. Some research is very difficult to review. For example, the chemical analysis of a corrosion deposit cannot be verified unless the reviewer has the same sample to work with.

I have seen falsified data submitted to the ASTM and accepted for publication. It's a fine line between "massaging" data and fudging data...

There is a famous misprint in a journal I have seen: "The data were plotted and produced a straight lie" (instead of "line"!)

I read papers in the Journal of 9/11 Studies and decide on the value of the paper on a case by case basis. I have seen a lot of junk papers in what are considered to be "good" journals....
While I agree, that some topics are hard for the peer reviewers to verify in terms of data/results, all papers can be peer reviewed to make sure the "science" used in them is legit, to make sure the paper meets a certain standard.

For instance, while I would not expect a LEGITIMATE peer review panel to decide on the legitimacy or authenticity of Steven Jones' samples prior to publishing, I would expect them to review and approve or disapprove of the science he uses in his analysis. I would also expect them to make some comment, and perhaps consider disapproval of such, if he could not show a "chain of custody" for said samples.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 10:16 AM   #36
rwguinn
Philosopher
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 9,339
Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
.....

I have seen falsified data submitted to the ASTM and accepted for publication. It's a fine line between "massaging" data and fudging data...

.....
Give citations, or retract.
Your unsupported BS and hatred is getting tiresome and libelous.
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 10:51 AM   #37
1337m4n
Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man
 
1337m4n's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,509
Originally Posted by Par View Post
Etymological Fallacy




What does this mean? Is it hip-hop language?
Yo Yo Yo! Yo' bunk is junk, yo! Crackaz be hatin' on me n' mah G'z cuz we be bringin' da Trooth! Y'all get down wit it dat yo' bunk is junk! You be hatin' on me, cuz I spreadin' tha Trooth, you be hatin' on me cuz I raisin tha roof! Yo bunk is junk, yo!
1337m4n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 03:44 PM   #38
Swing Dangler
Graduate Poster
 
Swing Dangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,049
Originally Posted by Par View Post
Etymological Fallacy
What does this mean? Is it hip-hop language?
I'm suprised. You can't even call a fallacy correctly. Because my definition of Peer Review came from Wikipedia as of today. If you analyze Wikipedia's explanation of Peer Review, then the Journal of 9/11 Studies indeed qualifies for that definition.

And to end any further discussion of this not a "peer-reviewed" journal I submit this following definition from Cal Poly Library Services, Robert E. Kennedy Library:
Finding Peer-Reviewed Journals and Journal Articles
Quote:
There is no comprehensive source for identifying all peer-reviewed journals. To help determine if a particular journal is peer-reviewed, refer to the journal itself (either to an individual issue of the journal or to the publisher's web site) or to Ulrich's International Periodicals Directory (volume 5 of Ulrich's lists the major peer-reviewed journals within the "Refereed Serials" section). The Directory may be requested at the Reference Desk at Kennedy Library.Source: http://www.lib.calpoly.edu/research/guides/peer.html
Oh and one other thing, the next time a debunker calls the Journal of 9/11 Studies not a Peer Reviewed publication, make sure you debunk them with the above information so I don't have to.

Your bunk is still junk.

Quote:
SDC-It really comes down to your apparent claim that JONES is a well-respected mainstream publication. Nope. It isn't.
Please cite that claim that I supposedly made or retract that statement. Well respected is of course a matter of personal opinion which has no bearing on the definition of 'Peer-Reviewed'.

Hey T.A.M. Nice picture. I'm not sure what to think. Although for humor's sake, I liked your other one with Mel Gibson's Braveheart.
__________________
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it."-John SKilling-Head Structural Engineer WTC-1993 Seattle Times
Swing Dangler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 03:49 PM   #39
CHF
Illuminator
 
CHF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,875
Swing, if a Holocaust Denier wrote a paper and got it reviewed by other Holocaust Deniers in a Holocaust Denial publication...would you consider it "peer-reviewed?"

Yes, apparently you would.

Quote:
To help determine if a particular journal is peer-reviewed, refer to the journal itself (either to an individual issue of the journal or to the publisher's web site)
So take their word for it, in other words.

Last edited by CHF; 11th November 2007 at 03:52 PM.
CHF is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th November 2007, 03:49 PM   #40
T.A.M.
Keeper of the Kool-Vax
 
T.A.M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Far East...of Canada
Posts: 20,816
SO your arguement, swing, is that if Stephen Jones tells us that his journal is peer reviewed, than that is good enough?

Quote:
To help determine if a particular journal is peer-reviewed, refer to the journal itself (either to an individual issue of the journal or to the publisher's web site
uh huh....ya that seems reasonable.

Oh, thanks wrt the avatar. The mask is not meant to represent you, but rather the truth movement (through their favorite movie hero) as a whole.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.