One-word refutation of free will as theodicy

1337m4n · 11th November 2007, 08:56 PM

Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts. Atheists have devoted entire pages to debunking this idea, but that's totally uneccesary. All it takes is one word (and a bit of analyzing):

Earthquakes

The only way around this that I can see is if you're one of those "Gaia" theorists who believe that the Earth is a living entity with its own conciousness and free will, but I don't think there's very many people who think this.

(Granted, I did spend quite a few words bragging about how I only needed one word, and then a few more words explaining a possible rebuttal, and then this paragraph here. Oh well.)

wollery · 11th November 2007, 09:21 PM

Nope.

six7s · 11th November 2007, 11:39 PM

Evidence?

m_huber · 11th November 2007, 11:56 PM

Earthquakes are often related to large-scale tectonic processes, without which life could not exist on our planet. "God in his infinite wisdom allows even this disaster to occur, because he created the world and knew how it needed to function." Also, earthquakes often serve as a punishment from God in mythologies, and punishment makes no sense if there is no free will.

I think you might want to expand your idea a bit more; it isn't quite clear.

Soapy Sam · 12th November 2007, 12:50 AM

Earthquakes are god's hint to architects that they don't have the building codes right yet.

DOC · 12th November 2007, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Earthquakes are god's hint to architects that they don't have the building codes right yet.

Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone.

hgc · 12th November 2007, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone.

Be these days end days? If so, is that opinion based on an increase in earthquakes?

Beerina · 12th November 2007, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts.

Evil is evil because of things like pain and death.

Get rid of pain and death in your world, and you have tons of fun like Quake and World of Warcraft.

If there's an indication of evil in the creator of this universe, it's in the incomprehensible need for pain to be so damned painful, and death to be irreversible.

"A result of humans making bad choices?" Perhaps. So end the "experiment", or alter the above two issues.

Originally Posted by m_huber

"God in his infinite wisdom allows even [big honking earthquakes] to occur, because he created the world and knew how it needed to function."

I claim a religious person who says this is blowing hot air. Proof: Other worlds do not have earthquakes since their cores have cooled and solidified.

There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people.

RenaissanceBiker · 12th November 2007, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people.

I think that rotating core is responsible for the magnetic field that sheilds us from some pretty nasty radiation that God left lying around up there.

Jekyll · 12th November 2007, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by DOC

Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone.

It also means it'll hurt less if you bang you head while you're being raptured away.

wollery · 12th November 2007, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

I claim a religious person who says this is blowing hot air. Proof: Other worlds do not have earthquakes since their cores have cooled and solidified.

Ummm, There are only four rocky planets, two of which have molten cores, Earth and Venus, although there is no direct evidence for Venus metal core still being molten (it certainly was in recent astronomical history, as the surface demonstrates), it seems highly likely it still is. All of the gas giants have molten metal cores, and strong magnetic fields. Of the other bodies in the solar system, Io is incredibly active volcanically, its entire surface is covered with lava flows, and there's even a movie of an eruption spewing lava several hundred kilometres high! I'm pretty sure it has surface quakes too.

Quote:

There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people.

What RenaissanceBiker said.

Lord Emsworth · 12th November 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts. Atheists have devoted entire pages to debunking this idea, but that's totally uneccesary. All it takes is one word (and a bit of analyzing):

I agree. The only word that it takes to reject Free Will as a solution to the PoE is
Rejected

11th November 2007, 08:56 PM	#1
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	One-word refutation of free will as theodicy Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts. Atheists have devoted entire pages to debunking this idea, but that's totally uneccesary. All it takes is one word (and a bit of analyzing): Earthquakes The only way around this that I can see is if you're one of those "Gaia" theorists who believe that the Earth is a living entity with its own conciousness and free will, but I don't think there's very many people who think this. (Granted, I did spend quite a few words bragging about how I only needed one word, and then a few more words explaining a possible rebuttal, and then this paragraph here. Oh well.)

11th November 2007, 09:21 PM	#2
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,317	Nope.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

11th November 2007, 11:39 PM	#3
six7s veretic Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 8,710	Evidence?
	__________________ Evolution and the rest of reality fascinates the be-jeebus out of me!

11th November 2007, 11:56 PM	#4
m_huber Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 828	Earthquakes are often related to large-scale tectonic processes, without which life could not exist on our planet. "God in his infinite wisdom allows even this disaster to occur, because he created the world and knew how it needed to function." Also, earthquakes often serve as a punishment from God in mythologies, and punishment makes no sense if there is no free will. I think you might want to expand your idea a bit more; it isn't quite clear.
m_huber Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 828

12th November 2007, 12:50 AM	#5
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Earthquakes are god's hint to architects that they don't have the building codes right yet.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

12th November 2007, 01:09 AM	#6
DOC Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 7,744	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Earthquakes are god's hint to architects that they don't have the building codes right yet. Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone.
	Last edited by DOC; 12th November 2007 at 01:53 AM.

12th November 2007, 03:44 AM	#7
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 13,019	Originally Posted by DOC Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone. Be these days end days? If so, is that opinion based on an increase in earthquakes?
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

12th November 2007, 07:16 AM	#8
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by 1337m4n Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts. Evil is evil because of things like pain and death. Get rid of pain and death in your world, and you have tons of fun like Quake and World of Warcraft. If there's an indication of evil in the creator of this universe, it's in the incomprehensible need for pain to be so damned painful, and death to be irreversible. "A result of humans making bad choices?" Perhaps. So end the "experiment", or alter the above two issues. Originally Posted by m_huber "God in his infinite wisdom allows even [big honking earthquakes] to occur, because he created the world and knew how it needed to function." I claim a religious person who says this is blowing hot air. Proof: Other worlds do not have earthquakes since their cores have cooled and solidified. There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

12th November 2007, 07:24 AM	#9
RenaissanceBiker Eats shoots and leaves. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 6,810	Originally Posted by Beerina There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people. I think that rotating core is responsible for the magnetic field that sheilds us from some pretty nasty radiation that God left lying around up there.
	__________________ "Truth does not contradict truth." - St. Augustine "Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth." - RenaissanceBiker

12th November 2007, 08:21 AM	#10
Jekyll Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The other other place Posts: 1,589	Originally Posted by DOC Actually all buildings are man-made. I doubt if any Native Americans living in teepees ever died from a earthquake. Christ said there will be an increase in earthquakes in the last days. So if your worried about dying in one live in a tent or teepee and your worries will be gone. It also means it'll hurt less if you bang you head while you're being raptured away.
	__________________ And I looked. And behold a green horse, and his name that sat on him was death. ~Tyndale New Testament

12th November 2007, 08:25 AM	#11
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,317	Originally Posted by Beerina I claim a religious person who says this is blowing hot air. Proof: Other worlds do not have earthquakes since their cores have cooled and solidified. Ummm, There are only four rocky planets, two of which have molten cores, Earth and Venus, although there is no direct evidence for Venus metal core still being molten (it certainly was in recent astronomical history, as the surface demonstrates), it seems highly likely it still is. All of the gas giants have molten metal cores, and strong magnetic fields. Of the other bodies in the solar system, Io is incredibly active volcanically, its entire surface is covered with lava flows, and there's even a movie of an eruption spewing lava several hundred kilometres high! I'm pretty sure it has surface quakes too. Quote: There is no inherent need for a molten core on a planet filled with people. What RenaissanceBiker said.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin Last edited by wollery; 12th November 2007 at 08:29 AM.

12th November 2007, 12:22 PM	#12
Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Through the Cables and the Underground ... Posts: 2,827	Originally Posted by 1337m4n Although the writings of atheist skeptics are interesting, they tend to be too long-winded. For instance, many apologists try to solve the problem of evil using free will. They say that because we have free will-a purposeful gift of God-we thus have the freedom to commit evil acts. Atheists have devoted entire pages to debunking this idea, but that's totally uneccesary. All it takes is one word (and a bit of analyzing): I agree. The only word that it takes to reject Free Will as a solution to the PoE is Rejected