The Sickness of Being Sick in the USA

[ConspiRaider]

So, I just got off the phone with my brother. I'm going to be sending a $4200 check to him, to cover Mom's stay at an assisted living facility for the month of December. That's more than I make in a month. And - I don't have any type of health insurance myself. Nothing. And I'm 50. Something happens to me? I'm in hock the rest of my life - to friggin' doctors and insurance companies. They will own me. I'll be their serf.

Mom is 77 years old, has Alzheimer's. Needs 24-hour care. When I visited her back in the summer, during one conversation, it took us 20 minutes to explain to her that it was 7:30 at night, and not 7:30 in the morning. She still pretty much remembers her children, but that won't last. Another year, and I doubt she'll know who any of her 7 kids are. And she needs physical care - in a wheelchair, sometimes needs to be fed, obviously all bathroom activities she can no longer perform.

In The Richest Nation On Earth, Mom falls through the cracks. She is eligible for Medicare - but not for Alzheimer's in an "assisted living" facility. Now if it was a "long term nursing care facility" or some such nonsense, then she would be. But in either case - first Mom must be COMPLETELY bankrupt before Medicare will pay for her care. But - in order to avoid being bankrupted ourselves, we have to hope Mom gets worse enough to be transferred out of "assisted living".

All her liquid assets are gone. Bank account emptied, everything she and Dad owned sold off and hauled away. Car sold. Only thing left is the house. But with the housing market being what it is - it's not moving. So the one asset left - the house - is really no asset at all, currently. And so the $4200 plus bill per month is being shuffled between us kids. With a promise to us, to be reimbursed from what is eventually cleared by the sale of the house.

Michael Moore's movie Sicko didn't focus a lot on the nearly 50 million American citizens - like myself - who have NO health coverage whatsoever. It focused more on those American citizens who BELIEVE they are covered - but with enough loopholes being found by scumbag lawyers whored out to insurance companies - really aren't.

[Matthew Best]

What are you, some kind of socialist?

(Seriously, very sorry to hear all that. Hope it works out somehow.)

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

So, I just got off the phone with my brother. I'm going to be sending a $4200 check to him, to cover Mom's stay at an assisted living facility for the month of December. That's more than I make in a month. And - I don't have any type of health insurance myself. Nothing. And I'm 50. Something happens to me? I'm in hock the rest of my life - to friggin' doctors and insurance companies. They will own me. I'll be their serf.

Mom is 77 years old, has Alzheimer's. Needs 24-hour care. When I visited her back in the summer, during one conversation, it took us 20 minutes to explain to her that it was 7:30 at night, and not 7:30 in the morning. She still pretty much remembers her children, but that won't last. Another year, and I doubt she'll know who any of her 7 kids are. And she needs physical care - in a wheelchair, sometimes needs to be fed, obviously all bathroom activities she can no longer perform.

In The Richest Nation On Earth, Mom falls through the cracks. She is eligible for Medicare - but not for Alzheimer's in an "assisted living" facility. Now if it was a "long term nursing care facility" or some such nonsense, then she would be. But in either case - first Mom must be COMPLETELY bankrupt before Medicare will pay for her care. But - in order to avoid being bankrupted ourselves, we have to hope Mom gets worse enough to be transferred out of "assisted living".

All her liquid assets are gone. Bank account emptied, everything she and Dad owned sold off and hauled away. Car sold. Only thing left is the house. But with the housing market being what it is - it's not moving. So the one asset left - the house - is really no asset at all, currently. And so the $4200 plus bill per month is being shuffled between us kids. With a promise to us, to be reimbursed from what is eventually cleared by the sale of the house.

Michael Moore's movie Sicko didn't focus a lot on the nearly 50 million American citizens - like myself - who have NO health coverage whatsoever. It focused more on those American citizens who BELIEVE they are covered - but with enough loopholes being found by scumbag lawyers whored out to insurance companies - really aren't.

Welcome to welfare reform.

Every time that the people who loath 'liberals' talk about the rise in Medicaid spending, what are they talking about?

Nursing home patients and children.

Yup , thems the facts, the disabled and the parents of children are a small percentage of medicaid rolls.

And while the rich get richer.. oh oops, I am a reformed socialist.

I am very sorry, the best in Illinois is to use a living trust.

[wahrheit]

I saw Sicko, but reading this account from a fellow forum member makes it much more real, and much sadder for me.

I am shocked to hear that a 50 year old guy who can write a $4200 check can not afford any health insurance. (As you probably know I'm from Europe.)

My checking account is a mess, at this very moment I couldn't draw $4200. However, as long as I scrape together $380 per month I enjoy full coverage with a private insurance company. And "full" means I get a single room at the hospital, with phone, fax, TV and a mini bar (I kid you not, it happened when I was treated ambulant a few years ago). They would even pay 90% of a complete teeth transplant, should I need one. And I can insist that the chief physician diagnoses me. Once I thought I might have broken my hand, went to the hospital for x-rays, and that nice young competent doctor there insisted to show the x-rays to the head of department after she knew my insurance. In other words: I think you can have a well working, profitable health business without totally screwing the patients. Sure, you won't get that uber-fancy treatment with regular (a.k.a. as "socialist" in the US) insurance, like when you are a worker or driving a bus, but you can't possibly be uninsured. You are always covered, one way or the other.

Sorry for the long post, I guess that's not exactly what you wanted to hear. I hope this will work out well for you and your siblings. At least, it's good to know you are not alone with this situation, but have brothers and sisters.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by wahrheit

I saw Sicko, but reading this account from a fellow forum member makes it much more real, and much sadder for me.

I am shocked to hear that a 50 year old guy who can write a $4200 check can not afford any health insurance. (As you probably know I'm from Europe.)

My checking account is a mess, at this very moment I couldn't draw $4200. However, as long as I scrape together $380 per month I enjoy full coverage with a private insurance company. And "full" means I get a single room at the hospital, with phone, fax, TV and a mini bar (I kid you not, it happened when I was treated ambulant a few years ago). They would even pay 90% of a complete teeth transplant, should I need one. And I can insist that the chief physician diagnoses me. Once I thought I might have broken my hand, went to the hospital for x-rays, and that nice young competent doctor there insisted to show the x-rays to the head of department after she knew my insurance. In other words: I think you can have a well working, profitable health business without totally screwing the patients. Sure, you won't get that uber-fancy treatment with regular (a.k.a. as "socialist" in the US) insurance, like when you are a worker or driving a bus, but you can't possibly be uninsured. You are always covered, one way or the other.

Sorry for the long post, I guess that's not exactly what you wanted to hear. I hope this will work out well for you and your siblings. At least, it's good to know you are not alone with this situation, but have brothers and sisters.

It's a good post, W. Very good, in fact, and I am not looking for pity or sympathy or anything. I'd still be smiling and in good spirits - even in a soup line. If it comes to that.

Just wanted to post some of the nitty gritty details about "health coverage" in the United States of America. How that wonderful coverage affects real people. Millions have this story - or much much worse.

It's not what we bargained for, not what we were told we could expect. Taxes? I've been working since the age of 13. Currently, my taxes - local, state, federal, social security - is about 50% of what I make. I get to keep half of each dollar I make. Maybe. Add in sales tax, gasoline tax and I'm sure other hidden taxes - it may be more.

I can't get covered. I'm male, and the wrong age. In my 40s, I was turned down by a major health care provider - MAJOR - because I had spent 4 days in the hospital for a hernia operation. When I was 6 years old.

Then I went to the only other major health care provider. They turned me down because for a few years, I got kidney stones. Had one overnight stay in the hospital because of that. REJECTED!

So in my entire life - 50 years - I have spent 5 days overnight in the hospital. 4 as a kiddie, 1 as an adult. And I can't get approved for health care coverage.

Prospective immigrants? You might be better off right where you are.

[Cainkane1]

Good luck.

[wahrheit]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

It's a good post, W. Very good, in fact, and I am not looking for pity or sympathy or anything.

Thanks for saying that. I am quite inept at this kind of stuff, so I really worried saying stupid or inappropriate things.

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

Currently, my taxes - local, state, federal, social security - is about 50% of what I make. I get to keep half of each dollar I make.

Same over here, I'm self-employed, 50% go somewhere else. I thought that would be better in the US, though.

The fact that you can't get covered, despite you are perfectly healthy, is a shame. Getting that private insurance (which is technically similar to how it works in the US) I mentioned above will also require you to fill out some forms over here, but you won't get rejected because of such minor illnesses like you had.

And should the private companies reject you over here, one of the compulsory health insurance must accept you, no matter what health issues you had in the past.

To clarify: You can't have the private insurance I have if you are employed and make less than X dollars per month, I don't know the exact amount. Since I'm self-employed, it doesn't matter how much I make, I can choose between private and compulsory. All others are in compulsory health insurance. That means that every doctor visit is paid for, and all treatment necessary is given. Only stuff like having your front tooth replaced because it's broken will cost you serious money, and you must pay a fee (around $6 I think) for prescribed medication at the pharmacy, however it doesn't matter if that drug costs $450 in fact. That will be paid for by compulsory insurance.

You know, I think you guys over there in the US really need to get rid of those jerks sitting in a cubicle and deciding if they cover you, if they accept you, if they approve of this or that treatment or if they don't. Health certainly is a business, but only to a certain point, I think.

[Math Maniac]

Does the amount you are paying consist of the portion that Medicare will not cover?

It's so sad...my wife's grandmother has Medicare and a private insurance that covers anything beyond what Medicare fails to pick up. It's expensive, but considering that a stint in the hospital can be up to 20k+ without skilled nursing after, it's well worth it. My wife took over her finances about 5 years ago so that the following would not occur:

My grandmother, on the other hand, developed Alzheimer's, missed a payment to her private insurance and was immediately dropped. Obtaining proper care became a battle even after Medicare paid and her Social Security payments were stopped in order to cover her care.

I'm generally not a Michael Moore fan, but I found Sicko to be the best of his movies. It's sad, very sad.

I feel for you and your family.

[shuize]

As noted above, I have a hard time believing someone who is able to write a $4,200 check just can't get health care. Do you really want coverage, or just someone else to pay for it? College kids working at Starbucks can get it -- in fact, my wife who is well past college age worked at Starbucks and had similar prior medical conditions to what you reported and never had a bit of trouble getting health coverage.

Personally, I've never really understood how someone who can't afford health insurance in the U.S. now is somehow suddenly going to be able to afford the monthly payments on their national coverage. Or is that somehow going to be free?

As to the original point: Help you mother. Sell the house.

[boooeee]

Originally Posted by shuize

As noted above, I have a hard time believing someone who is able to write a $4,200 check just can't get health care. Do you really want coverage, or just someone else to pay for it? College kids working at Starbucks can get it -- in fact, my wife who is well past college age worked at Starbucks and had similar prior medical conditions to what you reported and never had a bit of trouble getting health coverage.

That's the difference between group and individual. If your employer covers health care, the insurance company cannot refuse to cover you based on health status.

If you're applying for coverage on your own, the insurance company has the right to deny you coverage based on health status. It seems cruel, but it's the only way an insurance market can work (otherwise, people will wait until they get sick before purchasing coverage).

Conspiraider - In regards to your own insurance problem, based on my knowledge of underwriting criteria, your kidney stones condition puts you right on the border of insurability. I would highly recommend shopping around to a few other carriers to see if you can get approved.

[casebro]

So Mom still has plenty of assets to liquefy. You just don't want to lose your inheritance by using it for Mom's maintenance. Just exactly what do you expect her assets to be used for? Your new car? Sour grapes.

Or should you go kill Mom now, to avoid using her assets to pay her bills?

Geez, are we supposed to equate this womens situation with dying in the street, for lack of care? It sounds like her level of care is just fine. You just think that I should pay for it, not you.

[BPSCG]

Just need to clear something up here. Medicare is not Medicaid.

Medicare is medical insurance, paid for by part of your Social Security withholding. It doesn't cover assisted living, and it doesn't cover nursing home care unless you're actually getting skilled nursing care in the nursing home. In other words, when you become too frail to take care of yourself any more and you need a nursing home to take care of feeding and dressing and washing you, none of that's covered by Medicare, any more than it would be covered by any other health insurance.

Medicaid is not insurance. It's medical welfare. It'll pay the cost of being in a nursing home, but like any other form of welfare, only to the extent you're not able to pay for it yourself. That means you have to pretty much go through your savings before Medicaid will kick in. There's a thriving legal industry that specializes in shielding your assets so you can qualify for Medicaid without going through your kids' inheritance first.

Ever since Mrs. BPSCG joined AARP (expect to start getting mail from them the day you turn 50), we've been getting offers for long term care insurance, i.e., nursing home insurance. We're able to routinely pitch them in the trash, since we were both able to get LTCI through her employer. Costs us each about $150 a quarter, and we pay it pretty much until we die or go into a nursing home. It might be more expensive if you don't get it as part of a group, but no matter how expensive it is, it won't cost $4,200 a month, which (as ConspiRaider has learned) is pretty typical for what a nursing home costs. The coverage we got will pay for five years; we're both betting that we won't live longer than that in a nursing home - most people don't.

I recommend people at least look into it, unless you're certain you're going to die in your own bed or that you'll be able to live with your kids no matter how frail you become.

Bash today's health care all you want, but it's done one thing for us: It enables us to continue living long after our health has been destroyed.

If anyone wants to call that a good thing.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by casebro

So Mom still has plenty of assets to liquefy. You just don't want to lose your inheritance by using it for Mom's maintenance. Just exactly what do you expect her assets to be used for? Your new car? Sour grapes.

Or should you go kill Mom now, to avoid using her assets to pay her bills?

Geez, are we supposed to equate this womens situation with dying in the street, for lack of care? It sounds like her level of care is just fine. You just think that I should pay for it, not you.

How pleasant.

Actually, all Americans pay more on average and achieve worse health outcomes because of the system. The problem is assymetric information. Markets don't work well when there is assymetric information. Private health care insurance is a bad deal if you are young and healthy and have good habits, because you likely to pay more for health insurance than you will get out of it. It only makes sense to buy insurance if you think you are going to need it. So, only the illness-prone will think that health insurance is a good deal. This drives up the costs to insurance companies who have to raise premiums which makes it a bad deal for even more people.

Bottom line is, we could do a lot better. That doesn't mean that the British solution is the ideal answer, however. Singapore has a system that uses health savings accounts combined with catastrophic insurance, so that market forces work while also allowing everyone to afford good health care. This achieves better health outcomes for less money.

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

It's a good post, W. Very good, in fact, and I am not looking for pity or sympathy or anything. I'd still be smiling and in good spirits - even in a soup line. If it comes to that.

Just wanted to post some of the nitty gritty details about "health coverage" in the United States of America. How that wonderful coverage affects real people. Millions have this story - or much much worse.

It's not what we bargained for, not what we were told we could expect. Taxes? I've been working since the age of 13. Currently, my taxes - local, state, federal, social security - is about 50% of what I make. I get to keep half of each dollar I make. Maybe. Add in sales tax, gasoline tax and I'm sure other hidden taxes - it may be more.

I can't get covered. I'm male, and the wrong age. In my 40s, I was turned down by a major health care provider - MAJOR - because I had spent 4 days in the hospital for a hernia operation. When I was 6 years old.

Then I went to the only other major health care provider. They turned me down because for a few years, I got kidney stones. Had one overnight stay in the hospital because of that. REJECTED!

So in my entire life - 50 years - I have spent 5 days overnight in the hospital. 4 as a kiddie, 1 as an adult. And I can't get approved for health care coverage.

Prospective immigrants? You might be better off right where you are.

Sheesh, dude, a little more research might help.

http://www.cobrainsurance.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19975032/

http://www.nfib.com/page/healthCareBenefits.html

http://www.nasro-co-op.com/

Health insurance is dirt cheap (<$400/mo); available through several different small-business and self-employed group plans; and pretty darned comprehensive. There's no excuse whatsoever for anyone with a paying job to be without health insurance except a sense of entitlement, delusions of immortality, or a lack of understanding.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by shuize

As noted above, I have a hard time believing someone who is able to write a $4,200 check just can't get health care. Do you really want coverage, or just someone else to pay for it? College kids working at Starbucks can get it -- in fact, my wife who is well past college age worked at Starbucks and had similar prior medical conditions to what you reported and never had a bit of trouble getting health coverage.

Personally, I've never really understood how someone who can't afford health insurance in the U.S. now is somehow suddenly going to be able to afford the monthly payments on their national coverage. Or is that somehow going to be free?

As to the original point: Help you mother. Sell the house.

You're where? Japan? Oh! So then you really don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to U.S. health care, do you? You don't know a damned thing, in fact.

Butt out.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Yalius

Sheesh, dude, a little more research might help.

http://www.cobrainsurance.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19975032/

http://www.nfib.com/page/healthCareBenefits.html

http://www.nasro-co-op.com/

Health insurance is dirt cheap (<$400/mo); available through several different small-business and self-employed group plans; and pretty darned comprehensive. There's no excuse whatsoever for anyone with a paying job to be without health insurance except a sense of entitlement, delusions of immortality, or a lack of understanding.

As a full-time student at a community college, working towards transfering, I pulled down less than $400/mo.

When they payed me.

And I had to contribute towards rent.

And I had bills.

Good thing I'm immortal...

...

I mean, good thing it's required by law for me to have health insurance and that UCLA offers it.

And when I graduate this year, I hope that I can get into a group plan quickly enough so that my migraines and pineal cyst will still be covered and not pre-existing conditions.

I hope I'm never like my mom, pulling down a low wage while trying to raise two kids, keep the utilities on, food on the table, and a roof over our heads without an extra $400/mo to pay for health insurance.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by casebro

So Mom still has plenty of assets to liquefy. You just don't want to lose your inheritance by using it for Mom's maintenance. Just exactly what do you expect her assets to be used for? Your new car? Sour grapes.

Or should you go kill Mom now, to avoid using her assets to pay her bills?

Geez, are we supposed to equate this womens situation with dying in the street, for lack of care? It sounds like her level of care is just fine. You just think that I should pay for it, not you.

<snip>
You don't read, do you. There isn't going to be any inheritance. I don't know the meaning of the word inheritance. And I don't care. Neither do my brothers and sisters. Oh - but YOU do, of course. <snip> Didn't you see where I stated that all her assets are already gone, and that the ONLY THING LEFT is the house, up for sale, attempting to sell, but the difficulty is the down real estate market? <snip>
<snip> , George Bush. You can't miss him. He's the one demanding $196 billion to continue his little war, but who gleefully turned down a measly $35 billion over 5 years to assist with children's health care. KIDS! Bush hates 'em. Apparently you do too. Just like you hate senior citizens.

If your hateful self actually lives long enough to become a senior citizen - are you absolutely positively confident that you'll have no health issues? Huh, wise guy?

Get out of here.

Edited by chillzero:

Edited for civility

[LostAngeles]

It occurs to me some folks might be interested in reading this story from the L.A. Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-in...tot-topstories

Quote:

...
The revelation that the health plan had cancellation goals and bonuses comes amid a storm of controversy over the industry-wide but long-hidden practice of rescinding coverage after expensive medical treatments have been authorized.

...

Other insurers that have rescission operations, including Blue Cross of California and Blue Shield of California, said they had no similar policies linking employee performance reviews to rescission levels. Blue Cross said it conducted audits to ensure that claims reviewers were not given any "carrots" for canceling coverage.

Bates, who filed the suit against Health Net, owns a hair salon in a Gardena mini-mall between a liquor store and a doughnut shop. She said she was left with nearly $200,000 in medical bills and stranded in the midst of chemotherapy when Health Net canceled her coverage in January 2004.

...


Bates' chemotherapy was delayed for four months until it was funded through a program for charity cases. Three years later, she can't afford the tests she needs to determine whether the cancer is gone.

So she is left to worry. She is also left with a catheter embedded in her chest where the chemotherapy drugs were injected into her bloodstream. Bates said she found a physician willing to remove it without charge, but he won't do it without a clear prognosis. That remains uncertain.

...

Just so we're clear here, the reason she doesn't deserve healthcare is...

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

It occurs to me some folks might be interested in reading this story from the L.A. Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-in...tot-topstories

Just so we're clear here, the reason she doesn't deserve healthcare is...

...because the drop in profit to the CEO of her insurance carrier might actually cause he or she to have to settle for a life size sculpture of himself / herself, cut from a single giant blue diamond - instead of a rarer pink diamond. I wouldn't settle for less if I was a CEO, so how can I possibly empathize with this hairdresser? What would the other CEOs say at the country club? On the private junket to Cancun? At the platinum sinks of the Executive crapper room?

[quixotecoyote]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

...because the drop in profit to the CEO of her insurance carrier might actually cause he or she to have to settle for a life size sculpture of himself / herself, cut from a single giant blue diamond - instead of a rarer pink diamond. I wouldn't settle for less if I was a CEO, so how can I possibly empathize with this hairdresser? What would the other CEOs say at the country club? On the private junket to Cancun? At the platinum sinks of the Executive crapper room?

But if shuize was to ever move to the US, he might have to pay $3.50 more in yearly taxes than if we let people like her die! Surely you can see the other side of the issue! It's not just greedy corporate bureaucrats, it's cheapskate foreign ideologues!

[shuize]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

You're where? Japan? Oh! So then you really don't know what the hell you are talking about when it comes to U.S. health care, do you? You don't know a damned thing, in fact.

Butt out.

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

But if shuize was to ever move to the US, he might have to pay $3.50 more in yearly taxes than if we let people like her die! Surely you can see the other side of the issue! It's not just greedy corporate bureaucrats, it's cheapskate foreign ideologues!

Hey, rocket scientists, the location tag does not equal nationality. I am an American. I live and work in Japan. I lived and worked in the U.S. for decades before moving here.

Now that that's established, quit crying for someone else to pay your bills. Lower the asking price on the house and help your mother.

[quixotecoyote]

Sorry Shuize, I'm sure Bates will be happy to live in fear of cancer with a catheter permanently installed if it means you don't have to contribute to society.

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

It occurs to me some folks might be interested in reading this story from the L.A. Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-in...tot-topstories



Just so we're clear here, the reason she doesn't deserve healthcare is...

My AFLAC supplemental insurance for accidental injury / cancer / catastrophic care covers 100% of all cancer expenses over $5000. It costs me an additional $28 a month on top of the $434 / month for standard health insurance for myself, my wife and my son. Oh, yeah, in addition to paying my health expenses, it also pays me 80% of my income if I'm unable to work for more than 21 days.

And to respond to the person above who made less than $400 a month in college-- my health plan allows me to add dependent children under the age of 25 at no additional cost so long as they're enrolled in college full-time.

I'll ask again-- did you go out of your way to avoid health insurance? Or did you think it just wasn't worth the $15 per day?

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

...

All her liquid assets are gone. Bank account emptied, everything she and Dad owned sold off and hauled away. Car sold. Only thing left is the house. But with the housing market being what it is - it's not moving. So the one asset left - the house - is really no asset at all, currently. And so the $4200 plus bill per month is being shuffled between us kids. With a promise to us, to be reimbursed from what is eventually cleared by the sale of the house.
...

Originally Posted by shuize

Hey, rocket scientists, the location tag does not equal nationality. I am an American. I live and work in Japan.

Now that that's established, quit crying for someone else to pay your bills. Lower the asking price on the house and help your mother.

Living in Japan, you probably have no idea of the obscenity that is the U.S. housing market nor the S.N.A.F.U. that is the So. Cal housing market.

But we can cancel that out, provided you find where ConspiRaider cried for someone else to pay his bills.

I wish you luck!

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Yalius

My AFLAC supplemental insurance for accidental injury / cancer / catastrophic care covers 100% of all cancer expenses over $5000. It costs me an additional $28 a month on top of the $434 / month for standard health insurance for myself, my wife and my son. Oh, yeah, in addition to paying my health expenses, it also pays me 80% of my income if I'm unable to work for more than 21 days.

And to respond to the person above who made less than $400 a month in college-- my health plan allows me to add dependent children under the age of 25 at no additional cost so long as they're enrolled in college full-time.

I'll ask again-- did you go out of your way to avoid health insurance? Or did you think it just wasn't worth the $15 per day?

That person was me and I was 25-26 at the time. Way to read.

Between textbooks, rent, and bills, where would I have gotten an extra $400/mo?

[shuize]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

Living in Japan, you probably have no idea of the obscenity that is the U.S. housing market nor the S.N.A.F.U. that is the So. Cal housing market.

More of the failed logic "He's in Japan so he must not know anything" ConspiRaider tried above.

Let's dispose of this one while we're at it. Thanks to the wonderful world of modern technology, in addition to living the first half of my life in Southern California, frequent trips back there to visit relatives and, oh, I almost forgot, owning property in the United States, I am well aware of the housing market there.

Nice try.

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

That person was me and I was 25-26 at the time. Way to read.

Between textbooks, rent, and bills, where would I have gotten an extra $400/mo?

You were 25-26, taking, what, 20 credit hours? You don't mention kids, so I'll take a chance and assume you didn't have any. Let's see, $400 / month after taxes, call it $650 a month before taxes. Let's be conservative, $6.50 / hr for a McJob. That's 25 hours a week. Hmmm, 25 hours a week working, 20 hours a week in class, yeah, you're breaking your back, there. Sounds more and more like a case of unwilling, to me.

[KoihimeNakamura]

650 a month. Now start subtracting utilities. 250 a month. Gee, wonder where that money goes...

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Yalius

You were 25-26, taking, what, 20 credit hours? You don't mention kids, so I'll take a chance and assume you didn't have any. Let's see, $400 / month after taxes, call it $650 a month before taxes. Let's be conservative, $6.50 / hr for a McJob. That's 25 hours a week. Hmmm, 25 hours a week working, 20 hours a week in class, yeah, you're breaking your back, there. Sounds more and more like a case of unwilling, to me.

Over 20 credit hours during that time. Those 20 credit hours do not include time spent outside of class preparing (homework, papers, studying.) They try to say it's about 2:1 ratio of prep:class time, but I'd say for me it was maybe a third of that, which is still a huge chunk of time.

You also don't include commuting time. Or sleep.

You also neglected a line in the orginal post. I'll repeat it, "When they payed me." I worked for the school. They had serious payroll issues.

Should I presume that you, "did everything right," and went right into college after high school with very few issues? Graduated just fine and went right into the workforce? Good for you.

Don't think I didn't work my ass off to get where I am now.

As a 4th year now who has transferred, I'm carrying 14 upper division units. I live 12 miles away from school with Los Angeles traffic. I work 15 miles away from school. Living closer to school is not affordable.

I still couldn't afford $400/mo for private health care. I'm insured through UCLA because I have to be, by law. Not only does UCLA give me a good rate, but I have the added luck of access to some of the best damn medical care in the country.

I'm very lucky to have this and no longer have to rely on trying to get an appointment at the free clinics or finding an urgent care facility when I was injured or sick. Now, instead of getting my headaches written off, I actually get treated for migraines.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by shuize

More of the failed logic "He's in Japan so he must not know anything" ConspiRaider tried above.

Let's dispose of this one while we're at it. Thanks to the wonderful world of modern technology, in addition to living the first half of my life in Southern California, frequent trips back there to visit relatives and, oh, I almost forgot, owning property in the United States, I am well aware of the housing market there.

Nice try.

Then you should realize that maybe his problem with selling the house isn't so simple.

How about showing us where ConspiRaider cried for someone to pay his bills?

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

Over 20 credit hours during that time. Those 20 credit hours do not include time spent outside of class preparing (homework, papers, studying.) They try to say it's about 2:1 ratio of prep:class time, but I'd say for me it was maybe a third of that, which is still a huge chunk of time.

You also don't include commuting time. Or sleep.

You also neglected a line in the orginal post. I'll repeat it, "When they payed me." I worked for the school. They had serious payroll issues.

Should I presume that you, "did everything right," and went right into college after high school with very few issues? Graduated just fine and went right into the workforce? Good for you.

Don't think I didn't work my ass off to get where I am now.

As a 4th year now who has transferred, I'm carrying 14 upper division units. I live 12 miles away from school with Los Angeles traffic. I work 15 miles away from school. Living closer to school is not affordable.

I still couldn't afford $400/mo for private health care. I'm insured through UCLA because I have to be, by law. Not only does UCLA give me a good rate, but I have the added luck of access to some of the best damn medical care in the country.

I'm very lucky to have this and no longer have to rely on trying to get an appointment at the free clinics or finding an urgent care facility when I was injured or sick. Now, instead of getting my headaches written off, I actually get treated for migraines.

I went to college full-time and worked full-time. I'd take 18 credits a week, picking my classes to fall on M-W-F. That left time to hold down a full-time job, sometimes as much as 50 hours / week; I pulled in about $2000 / mo. as a salesman at Circuit City. I'm not a superman, but I was willing to do what I had to do. I had a little scholarship, no financial aid at all after my freshman year, and paid my own tuition plus all of my bills. Plus, I got married during that time frame, but kept working and kept in school. I was willing to put in long hours, work hard, and get things done. And I'm sure as hell not unique in that regard. The opportunities are there for anyone willing to sacrifice their "me-time" for a greater goal.

[quixotecoyote]

Back in high school the History teacher explained to the class that there are people who blame the poor for being poor and think everyone could be well off if they really wanted to be. I thought that was the most idiotic idea ever and couldn't imagine anyone arrogant and narcissistic enough to buy into it. Then I got an internet connection.....

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Yalius

I went to college full-time and worked full-time. I'd take 18 credits a week, picking my classes to fall on M-W-F. That left time to hold down a full-time job, sometimes as much as 50 hours / week; I pulled in about $2000 / mo. as a salesman at Circuit City. I'm not a superman, but I was willing to do what I had to do. I had a little scholarship, no financial aid at all after my freshman year, and paid my own tuition plus all of my bills. Plus, I got married during that time frame, but kept working and kept in school. I was willing to put in long hours, work hard, and get things done. And I'm sure as hell not unique in that regard. The opportunities are there for anyone willing to sacrifice their "me-time" for a greater goal.

That works when your school or department schedules classes like that. Neither the school I transferred from nor my department at UCLA does.

Why do you think that just because I couldn't afford health insurance, I'm lazy and/or wasn't sacrificing, "me-time?"

Do you seriously think I sat around on my ass until a magical fairy came along and plopped my ass in a class at UCLA? Seriously? Do magical fairies come along and pay my bills? Buy my textbooks? Pay for my medications?

When you were in college, where did your health insurance come from? Your parents or your school?

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

That works when your school or department schedules classes like that. Neither the school I transferred from nor my department at UCLA does.

Why do you think that just because I couldn't afford health insurance, I'm lazy and/or wasn't sacrificing, "me-time?"

Do you seriously think I sat around on my ass until a magical fairy came along and plopped my ass in a class at UCLA? Seriously? Do magical fairies come along and pay my bills? Buy my textbooks? Pay for my medications?

When you were in college, where did your health insurance come from? Your parents or your school?

Then suck it up and quit complaining. You're allegedly sacrificing your present for your future; you have health insurance; you're not living on the street. But you still want to complain that, oh waaah, they're not making it easy for me, oh waah, I shouldn't have to work while I'm in college, oh waah, the college I'm at makes it soooooo hard for me while at the same time giving me a boost up in life. Either you're willing to put your present on hold for your future, in which case you're doing just what you should be doing, or you're trying to get everything you want handed to you on a silver platter. If it's the former, good for you. If it's the latter, tough luck.

And I was on my parents' insurance i college, plus had my own policy through my employer; once I got married, I wasn't elegible for my parents' insurance any more, so I payed an extra $100 a month or so for my employer's coverage for my wife and supplementals. I opted out of the college's insurance plan because both options I had available to me offered better coverage.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Yalius

Then suck it up and quit complaining. You're allegedly sacrificing your present for your future; you have health insurance; you're not living on the street. But you still want to complain that, oh waaah, they're not making it easy for me, oh waah, I shouldn't have to work while I'm in college, oh waah, the college I'm at makes it soooooo hard for me while at the same time giving me a boost up in life. Either you're willing to put your present on hold for your future, in which case you're doing just what you should be doing, or you're trying to get everything you want handed to you on a silver platter. If it's the former, good for you. If it's the latter, tough luck.

And I was on my parents' insurance i college, plus had my own policy through my employer; once I got married, I wasn't elegible for my parents' insurance any more, so I payed an extra $100 a month or so for my employer's coverage for my wife and supplementals. I opted out of the college's insurance plan because both options I had available to me offered better coverage.

I wasn't complaining. I was commiserating on the difficulty of affording private health insurance when you're poor. Between now and when I graduate, I will be poor. I've accepted this. This is how I've always lived.

I have no clue where you're getting the idea that I'm whining about what I working with. I also have no clue why I've wasted my time trying to justify myself to someone who's decided that they're better than me because apparently, they've worked just that much harder. Not to mention someone who simply can't be bothered to actually read a thing I've written and apparently thinks I'm going to school for the sheer hell of it and despite what I've written, doesn't realize I also have a job.

Congratulations for achieving what you've achieved.

[Corsair 115]

It's threads like this that make me glad I live in Canada. That's not to say that our system is perfect, far from it, but at least you don't have to worry about finding health insurance or possibly being bankrupted by an unexpected disease or accident. Sure, you pay a bit more in taxes, but it seems like a good trade-off overall.

Speaking of bankruptcy, isn't one of the leading causes of personal bankruptcy in the U.S. due to medical bills from an unexpected major disease or accident?

Speaking of taxes, I recall an economic report issued not that long ago which stated that the publically funded health care system in Canada actually gave U.S. companies operating here a competitive advantage over their U.S.-based counterparts. Seems the higher taxes they paid in Canada were more than offset by the much higher health insurance costs in the U.S.

But perhaps this whole thing comes down to different irreconcilable differences over of the role of government in society...

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by shuize

Personally, I've never really understood how someone who can't afford health insurance in the U.S. now is somehow suddenly going to be able to afford the monthly payments on their national coverage. Or is that somehow going to be free?

Because it's easier to pay 2 or 3 thousand than 5 or 6 thousand.
Here's why:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html

Quote:

Health insurance is dirt cheap (<$400/mo);

The price of John Edwards haircut is dirt cheap???? I guess by dirt cheap you mean about twice as much as almost everyone other than Americans pay. Mine is less than $200
for a family of 4.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html

Look at Singapore, they pay less than 1/5 what Americans do, and they live longer and are healthier to boot. Japanese pay less than half and they live longer too.

It's not about Conspiraider wanting someone else to pay his bills, it's about wanting a system where we can all pay what the Japanese or the British or the Canadians pay instead of twice as much for the same thing.

It's simply a matter of economics.

[Policenaut]

I'd wager a bet that them living longer and healthier has little to do with their medical system and is mostly about their eating habits compared to the US. Also in Canada and Britain isn't there a shortage of doctors? The last thing this government needs is more bureaucracy. And as for the cost in Britain I recently saw this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...2/nhstax02.xml

[Cain]

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Back in high school the History teacher explained to the class that there are people who blame the poor for being poor and think everyone could be well off if they really wanted to be. I thought that was the most idiotic idea ever and couldn't imagine anyone arrogant and narcissistic enough to buy into it. Then I got an internet connection.....

That's almost sigworthy.

I'm not sure what the uninsured are complaining about -- they can always eat less. Do you really need to live in a house or apartment? In Southern California you could manage to sleep out on the streets during the warmer seasons (bam, I just saved you four months rent). The American model is ********** up. Unbelievably ********** up.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Singapore has a system that uses health savings accounts combined with catastrophic insurance, so that market forces work while also allowing everyone to afford good health care. This achieves better health outcomes for less money.

There would have to be laws passed to force hospitals and doctors to list their prices for the market to work. Right now just try getting an answer from a hospital about what any given procedure will cost (or what percentage pf patients at that hospital get complications), ain't gonna happen. The consumer has no information at all to base a choice on.