My Crazy Theory Why Water Has No Flavor

TacoSnake · 16th November 2007, 09:35 AM

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I was up early (for me) and a tad bored, so I thought I would post my pet theory on a potential connection between water and evolution and see what people here thought of it. Theory is a bit strong really, since my academic background is Anthropology and my job is making video games.

Pure water has no taste or smell. Is this evidence of man's evolution from primative lifeforms?

Multicellular organisms first evolved in a liquid medium.
They needed to differentiate food from the nutritionless liquid around them.
They developed cells that worked as sensors to detect molecules of potential food when they bumped into it. These were rudimentary "Taste" organs.
Some of these organs evolved into more sensitive ones that worked to track down food floating in this vast liquid medium. They sifted molecules out of the liquid to home in on the food. These were rudimentary "Smell" organs.
Both organs had to ignore the bulk of the molecules around them (water molecules) - therefore, they did not react to (ignored) pure water molecules.
As animals continued to evolve, these sensors evolved along with them and become more diverse and specialized. Most never needed to start detecting water molecules again.
Therefore the modern organs of taste and smell still do not react to water molecules. Hence the odorless and tasteless nature of water.

Feel free to praise my amazing insight, or condemn my illogical blasphemy at your leisure.

TacoSnake · 16th November 2007, 09:37 AM

Just wanted to follow it up with a quick take on the religious angle of the issue.

God made man.
Man needs water to live.
Sorry Man, God made water have no taste. Man has no positive incentive to drink.
Instead God made man feel discomfort when he is in need of water.
Now Man is thirsty. Man needs to find water.
Lucky for Man, God made the Earth 75% water.
Sorry, all that water is actually poisonous to man.
Still very thirsty, Man needs to find FRESH water. Should be easy, right.
Sorry, God also made water odorless, so man can only find it by looking.
Apparently in a bad mood, God decides that on really hot days, warm air will create the illusion of water on the horizon.
Poor hot, thristy man. God doesn't seem to like you very much. Sinner.

rcronk · 16th November 2007, 11:01 AM

Where did the "multi-cellular organisms" at the start of your theory come from?

Is a theist strawman really part of the support for this theory?

Ryokan · 16th November 2007, 11:07 AM

Water tastes like.... water.

roger · 16th November 2007, 11:48 AM

err, what does your spit taste like? What is spit mostly composed of?

Can you think of any reason why you might be desensitized to the taste of spit?

becomingagodo · 16th November 2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

what does your spit taste like?

Ice cream

Quote:

What is spit mostly composed of?

Amylase

Quote:

Can you think of any reason why you might be desensitized to the taste of spit?

Ice cream freezes the brain, causing taste numbness.

ksbluesfan · 16th November 2007, 11:55 AM

Water and air seem to be defaults. Everything has a taste or smell relative to water and air. That's always been my thought anyway.

KingMerv00 · 16th November 2007, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by rcronk

Where did the "multi-cellular organisms" at the start of your theory come from?

How is that relevant?

rcronk · 16th November 2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

How is that relevant?

It's not. The second OP prompted me to ask for more detail about the origins of life. It seemed to be poking fun at people of faith in God and so I thought I'd poke back at the people of faith in abiogenesis. I guess I'm just being a smarty pants today. :P

But to be more relevant, I assume that we're talking about "pure water" right? I don't think that exists on earth naturally does it? Most water has minerals and other impurities in it by virtue of it passing through and over rocks and earth. A river by my house has a very distinct smell to it too. Tastes of water vary from location to location depending upon its content. It seems that people "get used to" the water in their area and water from other areas tend to taste different. This could just be because of desensitization. In fact reverse osmosis water - which my coworkers repeatedly tell me is so very pure - actually tastes quite strange to me, so that would imply that it has more to do with what we're used to than anything else. Of course, I've probably missed the point of the post, since it has to do with evolution.

Of course, this is just anecdotal and I'm not an expert in anything relevant to this topic - I just thought I'd throw my 2¢ in.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 16th November 2007, 04:32 PM

Did Roger say desensitization?

~~ Paul

kellyb · 16th November 2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by TacoSnake

Feel free to praise my amazing insight, or condemn my illogical blasphemy at your leisure.

Makes sense to me...

TacoSnake · 16th November 2007, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by ksbluesfan

Water and air seem to be defaults. Everything has a taste or smell relative to water and air. That's always been my thought anyway.

I guess I am trying to explain why those are defaults. Air is more difficult to work through though, partly because breathing air came so much later in evolutionary theory. Also I am not sure what "pure air" is compared to pure water (molecules of H20). So to keep my head from hurting I stick with one conundrum at a time - water.

TacoSnake · 16th November 2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by rcronk

It's not. The second OP prompted me to ask for more detail about the origins of life. It seemed to be poking fun at people of faith in God and so I thought I'd poke back at the people of faith in abiogenesis. I guess I'm just being a smarty pants today. :P

But to be more relevant, I assume that we're talking about "pure water" right? I don't think that exists on earth naturally does it? Most water has minerals and other impurities in it by virtue of it passing through and over rocks and earth. A river by my house has a very distinct smell to it too. Tastes of water vary from location to location depending upon its content. It seems that people "get used to" the water in their area and water from other areas tend to taste different. This could just be because of desensitization. In fact reverse osmosis water - which my coworkers repeatedly tell me is so very pure - actually tastes quite strange to me, so that would imply that it has more to do with what we're used to than anything else. Of course, I've probably missed the point of the post, since it has to do with evolution.

Of course, this is just anecdotal and I'm not an expert in anything relevant to this topic - I just thought I'd throw my 2¢ in.

It wasn't my intention to poke fun at faith, and I hope my small attempt at humor didn't sidetrack my OP too much.

Pure water doesn't exit in nature, however any environment such as an ocean is composed of mostly H2O molecules, which the organism needs to ignore, since they don't obtain nutrition from those molecules. Wouldn't it be so much harder to detect food and poisons in water if it always tasted like chocolate milk? The less reactive the "taste" the more sensitive the receptors can be toward the impurities in the liquid.

quarky · 17th November 2007, 06:59 AM

why doesn't tofu have a flavor?

Acleron · 17th November 2007, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by quarky

why doesn't tofu have a flavor?

Early organisms had to wade through it.

Cuddles · 17th November 2007, 04:29 PM

Taste and smell are the result of complex organic molecules fitting on to detectors. Water and other simple molecules are nowhere near big enough to affect the receptors and so don't smell of anything.

Pyrts · 17th November 2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Taste and smell are the result of complex organic molecules fitting on to detectors. Water and other simple molecules are nowhere near big enough to affect the receptors and so don't smell of anything.

That's exactly it! Complex molecules that we scent give us cues about the environment (something you can eat, a smell/taste (if you lived in liquid) foe, detect chemicals that signal the presence of others of your kinds, etc, etc.

However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away.

joobz · 17th November 2007, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Pyrts

That's exactly it! Complex molecules that we scent give us cues about the environment (something you can eat, a smell/taste (if you lived in liquid) foe, detect chemicals that signal the presence of others of your kinds, etc, etc.

However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away.

I wouldn't call it a pure size thing. H2S is rather small, but you wouldn't miss the smell.

quarky · 18th November 2007, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

I wouldn't call it a pure size thing. H2S is rather small, but you wouldn't miss the smell.

beat me to that one. there's plenty of other small molecules with a potent stink

DRBUZZ0 · 20th November 2007, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by TacoSnake

Pure water doesn't exit in nature, however any environment such as an ocean is composed of mostly H2O molecules, which the organism needs to ignore, since they don't obtain nutrition from those molecules. Wouldn't it be so much harder to detect food and poisons in water if it always tasted like chocolate milk? The less reactive the "taste" the more sensitive the receptors can be toward the impurities in the liquid.

Um... first of all, what do you mean by "pure water"? Do you mean distilled water? Or Regent grade water? Or Spectroscopy grade water? There are some aquifers which have water that is pretty damn close to pure by any measure.

But as far as a taste to water? For one thing, water is in your mouth nearly all the time because saliva is primarily water. You don't taste your own saliva, but sometimes when you kiss the other person's has a little taste to it.

But that's besides the point. Water is always in your mouth, water is in the environment and there's water vapor in the atmosphere. So if you could taste it you always would be tasting it and would almost certainly grow so accustomed to it that you would not notice.

But in any case. Taste is actually made up of primary tastes as well as more subtile tastes, which are actually really more directly related to the sense of smell.

You can taste saltiness from salts, either sodium chloride or otherwise. This is caused by ion potential. Sodium and calcium ions general give a salty taste, but other salt compounds don't generally do so in as direct a manner. But potassium works too.

sourness is related to acidity especially with a high hydrogen or hydronium concentration

Sweetness is generally related to simple carbohydrates, but it can also be to other organics, such as glycerol or kerotones.

Bitterness is one of the more strange ones. It can be realted to high ph but also to various organics like proteins and various other compounds.

Then there are the things perceived as tastes which are really indirect smells or in the case of spiciness, coolness (as with menthol) or other factors, it's really more of a feeling sensation than taste.

Water falls into none of these in general, except perhaps for the sour catagory, since water would have some free hydrogen ions. But in any case, water generally is not going to go beyond the ionization of that type already present in your mouth which you would obviously be accustomed to.

JoeTheJuggler · 20th November 2007, 10:39 PM

I think before you go figuring out why we can't smell water, you should first determine that humans can't smell water.

I'm pretty sure I can smell water.

Cuddles · 21st November 2007, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Pyrts

However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away.

I don't think that's actually the rain that you smell, it's the smell of things getting wet. Wet mud and wet tarmac both smell very different. That's because it's not the wet that you're smelling. My best guess would be that organics either dissolve or emulsify with the water and can therefore evaporate much more easily than when they are part of a solid, so things smell different when they are wet.

That raises an interesting question of what it actually means to smell something. Does it have to be molecules reaching our receptors, or can a smell also be something that alters how other molecules affect the receptors? If something smells different when water is present, can the new smell be said to be water, even though the water is only altering how something else affects the receptors, or even just affecting the proportions of which molecules reach our noses in the first place?

quarky · 21st November 2007, 06:51 AM

ozone has a smell, often associated with rain.

Dorian Gray · 21st November 2007, 02:30 PM

Water has a taste - it tastes like water. Duh.

luchog · 21st November 2007, 04:35 PM

Hrm.

drzeus99 · 21st November 2007, 04:59 PM

I think because of evolution, water really CAN'T have a taste.
If it did, not everyone would like it. And by needing water (and being composed
mostly of it), as an essential ingredient, it has to be nutral for a species to
really survive and thrive. Just my 2¢.

Also, water is like the color white is to light. It's the absence of all flavor. (distilled water
with no impurities in it that is. It has no properties of sweet/salty/sour/bitter/umami (savory),
and so becomes something that's untasteable.

Cheers,
DrZ

quarky · 21st November 2007, 07:54 PM

dogs seem to enjoy their water flavored.

some people do too. certain stinky springs have sought-after water.
sulphur is a popular flavor. saratoga springs comes to mind.

evidently, if the water tastes bad enough, it gains healing properties.

The Man · 21st November 2007, 09:23 PM

Does pure alcohol have a flavor? Hydrogen peroxide? Methyl-Ethyl Ketone? Sulfuric acid? Polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB)? Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD)?

I do not know but I am sure there are plenty of colorless, odorless and tasteless liquids and a lot of them aren’t very good for you (like GB type nerve agents). They simply lack the chemicals needed to trigger our sense of taste.

rocketdodger · 21st November 2007, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by drzeus99

It has no properties of sweet/salty/sour/bitter/umami (savory),
and so becomes something that's untasteable.

If I remember correctly, umami is actually a receptor for some amino acid or derviative therof, right? (maybe glutamic acid or glutamate or whatever?) I think that is why MSG adds flavor to stuff.

ETA-- yep, just checked it out. Umami is glutamates in general.

DocTwisted · 22nd November 2007, 01:27 AM

While this is rather amusing, I think it's based on a false premise regarding the nature of the water we drink.

I know the water I drink now that I live in Hollister, CA is not the same as the water I drank growing up in Salinas, CA... and we're talking about a geographical distance of a measly 30 miles. Ever since moving, I've felt the tap water had a more metallic tang to it.

Maybe it's that I'm tasting a differing mix of impurities in the water? Are you talking about truly pure H2O, which doesn't exist anywhere in nature? because I gotta tell you, I've tried distilled water too, and had a slight sweetness to it. I'd probably drink more of that if I hadn't been warned how doing so can strip minerals out of your body.

16th November 2007, 09:35 AM	#1
TacoSnake New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 13	My Crazy Theory Why Water Has No Flavor Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. I was up early (for me) and a tad bored, so I thought I would post my pet theory on a potential connection between water and evolution and see what people here thought of it. Theory is a bit strong really, since my academic background is Anthropology and my job is making video games. Pure water has no taste or smell. Is this evidence of man's evolution from primative lifeforms? Multicellular organisms first evolved in a liquid medium. They needed to differentiate food from the nutritionless liquid around them. They developed cells that worked as sensors to detect molecules of potential food when they bumped into it. These were rudimentary "Taste" organs. Some of these organs evolved into more sensitive ones that worked to track down food floating in this vast liquid medium. They sifted molecules out of the liquid to home in on the food. These were rudimentary "Smell" organs. Both organs had to ignore the bulk of the molecules around them (water molecules) - therefore, they did not react to (ignored) pure water molecules. As animals continued to evolve, these sensors evolved along with them and become more diverse and specialized. Most never needed to start detecting water molecules again. Therefore the modern organs of taste and smell still do not react to water molecules. Hence the odorless and tasteless nature of water. Feel free to praise my amazing insight, or condemn my illogical blasphemy at your leisure.

16th November 2007, 09:37 AM	#2
TacoSnake New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 13	Just wanted to follow it up with a quick take on the religious angle of the issue. God made man. Man needs water to live. Sorry Man, God made water have no taste. Man has no positive incentive to drink. Instead God made man feel discomfort when he is in need of water. Now Man is thirsty. Man needs to find water. Lucky for Man, God made the Earth 75% water. Sorry, all that water is actually poisonous to man. Still very thirsty, Man needs to find FRESH water. Should be easy, right. Sorry, God also made water odorless, so man can only find it by looking. Apparently in a bad mood, God decides that on really hot days, warm air will create the illusion of water on the horizon. Poor hot, thristy man. God doesn't seem to like you very much. Sinner.

16th November 2007, 11:01 AM	#3
rcronk Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 728	Where did the "multi-cellular organisms" at the start of your theory come from? Is a theist strawman really part of the support for this theory?
rcronk Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 728	Last edited by rcronk; 16th November 2007 at 11:02 AM.

16th November 2007, 11:48 AM	#5
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	err, what does your spit taste like? What is spit mostly composed of? Can you think of any reason why you might be desensitized to the taste of spit?
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

16th November 2007, 11:53 AM	#6
becomingagodo Banned Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 698	Quote: what does your spit taste like? Ice cream Quote: What is spit mostly composed of? Amylase Quote: Can you think of any reason why you might be desensitized to the taste of spit? Ice cream freezes the brain, causing taste numbness.
becomingagodo Banned Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 698

16th November 2007, 11:07 AM	#4
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 8,198	Water tastes like.... water.

16th November 2007, 11:55 AM	#7
ksbluesfan Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,384	Water and air seem to be defaults. Everything has a taste or smell relative to water and air. That's always been my thought anyway.

16th November 2007, 02:57 PM	#8
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by rcronk Where did the "multi-cellular organisms" at the start of your theory come from? How is that relevant?
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

16th November 2007, 03:20 PM	#9
rcronk Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 728	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 How is that relevant? It's not. The second OP prompted me to ask for more detail about the origins of life. It seemed to be poking fun at people of faith in God and so I thought I'd poke back at the people of faith in abiogenesis. I guess I'm just being a smarty pants today. :P But to be more relevant, I assume that we're talking about "pure water" right? I don't think that exists on earth naturally does it? Most water has minerals and other impurities in it by virtue of it passing through and over rocks and earth. A river by my house has a very distinct smell to it too. Tastes of water vary from location to location depending upon its content. It seems that people "get used to" the water in their area and water from other areas tend to taste different. This could just be because of desensitization. In fact reverse osmosis water - which my coworkers repeatedly tell me is so very pure - actually tastes quite strange to me, so that would imply that it has more to do with what we're used to than anything else. Of course, I've probably missed the point of the post, since it has to do with evolution. Of course, this is just anecdotal and I'm not an expert in anything relevant to this topic - I just thought I'd throw my 2¢ in.
rcronk Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 728

16th November 2007, 04:32 PM	#10
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,592	Did Roger say desensitization? ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

16th November 2007, 04:43 PM	#11
kellyb Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tennessee. Ain't you jealous? Posts: 4,416	Originally Posted by TacoSnake Feel free to praise my amazing insight, or condemn my illogical blasphemy at your leisure. Makes sense to me...

16th November 2007, 09:43 PM	#12
TacoSnake New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 13	Originally Posted by ksbluesfan Water and air seem to be defaults. Everything has a taste or smell relative to water and air. That's always been my thought anyway. I guess I am trying to explain why those are defaults. Air is more difficult to work through though, partly because breathing air came so much later in evolutionary theory. Also I am not sure what "pure air" is compared to pure water (molecules of H20). So to keep my head from hurting I stick with one conundrum at a time - water.

16th November 2007, 09:50 PM	#13
TacoSnake New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 13	Originally Posted by rcronk It's not. The second OP prompted me to ask for more detail about the origins of life. It seemed to be poking fun at people of faith in God and so I thought I'd poke back at the people of faith in abiogenesis. I guess I'm just being a smarty pants today. :P But to be more relevant, I assume that we're talking about "pure water" right? I don't think that exists on earth naturally does it? Most water has minerals and other impurities in it by virtue of it passing through and over rocks and earth. A river by my house has a very distinct smell to it too. Tastes of water vary from location to location depending upon its content. It seems that people "get used to" the water in their area and water from other areas tend to taste different. This could just be because of desensitization. In fact reverse osmosis water - which my coworkers repeatedly tell me is so very pure - actually tastes quite strange to me, so that would imply that it has more to do with what we're used to than anything else. Of course, I've probably missed the point of the post, since it has to do with evolution. Of course, this is just anecdotal and I'm not an expert in anything relevant to this topic - I just thought I'd throw my 2¢ in. It wasn't my intention to poke fun at faith, and I hope my small attempt at humor didn't sidetrack my OP too much. Pure water doesn't exit in nature, however any environment such as an ocean is composed of mostly H2O molecules, which the organism needs to ignore, since they don't obtain nutrition from those molecules. Wouldn't it be so much harder to detect food and poisons in water if it always tasted like chocolate milk? The less reactive the "taste" the more sensitive the receptors can be toward the impurities in the liquid.

17th November 2007, 06:59 AM	#14
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	why doesn't tofu have a flavor?
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

17th November 2007, 07:05 AM	#15
Acleron Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a beautifully understandable universe Posts: 1,933	Originally Posted by quarky why doesn't tofu have a flavor? Early organisms had to wade through it.

17th November 2007, 04:29 PM	#16
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	Taste and smell are the result of complex organic molecules fitting on to detectors. Water and other simple molecules are nowhere near big enough to affect the receptors and so don't smell of anything.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

17th November 2007, 04:41 PM	#17
Pyrts Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 216	Originally Posted by Cuddles Taste and smell are the result of complex organic molecules fitting on to detectors. Water and other simple molecules are nowhere near big enough to affect the receptors and so don't smell of anything. That's exactly it! Complex molecules that we scent give us cues about the environment (something you can eat, a smell/taste (if you lived in liquid) foe, detect chemicals that signal the presence of others of your kinds, etc, etc. However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away.
Pyrts Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 216

17th November 2007, 07:53 PM	#18
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,503	Originally Posted by Pyrts That's exactly it! Complex molecules that we scent give us cues about the environment (something you can eat, a smell/taste (if you lived in liquid) foe, detect chemicals that signal the presence of others of your kinds, etc, etc. However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away. I wouldn't call it a pure size thing. H2S is rather small, but you wouldn't miss the smell.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

18th November 2007, 08:52 AM	#19
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	Originally Posted by joobz I wouldn't call it a pure size thing. H2S is rather small, but you wouldn't miss the smell. beat me to that one. there's plenty of other small molecules with a potent stink
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

20th November 2007, 09:49 PM	#20
DRBUZZ0 Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The Command Bunker Posts: 3,320	Originally Posted by TacoSnake Pure water doesn't exit in nature, however any environment such as an ocean is composed of mostly H2O molecules, which the organism needs to ignore, since they don't obtain nutrition from those molecules. Wouldn't it be so much harder to detect food and poisons in water if it always tasted like chocolate milk? The less reactive the "taste" the more sensitive the receptors can be toward the impurities in the liquid. Um... first of all, what do you mean by "pure water"? Do you mean distilled water? Or Regent grade water? Or Spectroscopy grade water? There are some aquifers which have water that is pretty damn close to pure by any measure. But as far as a taste to water? For one thing, water is in your mouth nearly all the time because saliva is primarily water. You don't taste your own saliva, but sometimes when you kiss the other person's has a little taste to it. But that's besides the point. Water is always in your mouth, water is in the environment and there's water vapor in the atmosphere. So if you could taste it you always would be tasting it and would almost certainly grow so accustomed to it that you would not notice. But in any case. Taste is actually made up of primary tastes as well as more subtile tastes, which are actually really more directly related to the sense of smell. You can taste saltiness from salts, either sodium chloride or otherwise. This is caused by ion potential. Sodium and calcium ions general give a salty taste, but other salt compounds don't generally do so in as direct a manner. But potassium works too. sourness is related to acidity especially with a high hydrogen or hydronium concentration Sweetness is generally related to simple carbohydrates, but it can also be to other organics, such as glycerol or kerotones. Bitterness is one of the more strange ones. It can be realted to high ph but also to various organics like proteins and various other compounds. Then there are the things perceived as tastes which are really indirect smells or in the case of spiciness, coolness (as with menthol) or other factors, it's really more of a feeling sensation than taste. Water falls into none of these in general, except perhaps for the sour catagory, since water would have some free hydrogen ions. But in any case, water generally is not going to go beyond the ionization of that type already present in your mouth which you would obviously be accustomed to.

20th November 2007, 10:39 PM	#21
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,825	I think before you go figuring out why we can't smell water, you should first determine that humans can't smell water. I'm pretty sure I can smell water.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

21st November 2007, 05:59 AM	#22
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	Originally Posted by Pyrts However, (as you may know if you lived in the dry southwest), you CAN "smell" water (even in its purest form.) You can smell rain coming miles away. I don't think that's actually the rain that you smell, it's the smell of things getting wet. Wet mud and wet tarmac both smell very different. That's because it's not the wet that you're smelling. My best guess would be that organics either dissolve or emulsify with the water and can therefore evaporate much more easily than when they are part of a solid, so things smell different when they are wet. That raises an interesting question of what it actually means to smell something. Does it have to be molecules reaching our receptors, or can a smell also be something that alters how other molecules affect the receptors? If something smells different when water is present, can the new smell be said to be water, even though the water is only altering how something else affects the receptors, or even just affecting the proportions of which molecules reach our noses in the first place?
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

21st November 2007, 06:51 AM	#23
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	ozone has a smell, often associated with rain.
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

21st November 2007, 02:30 PM	#24
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 20,196	Water has a taste - it tastes like water. Duh.
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House Additionally to Carlin being funnier than Izzard, I think Dorian is funnier than the Marquis. - Ron Tomkins

21st November 2007, 04:59 PM	#26
drzeus99 Hellmouth Beastie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wherever misfortune has me Posts: 366	I think because of evolution, water really CAN'T have a taste. If it did, not everyone would like it. And by needing water (and being composed mostly of it), as an essential ingredient, it has to be nutral for a species to really survive and thrive. Just my 2¢. Also, water is like the color white is to light. It's the absence of all flavor. (distilled water with no impurities in it that is. It has no properties of sweet/salty/sour/bitter/umami (savory), and so becomes something that's untasteable. Cheers, DrZ
	Last edited by drzeus99; 21st November 2007 at 05:09 PM.

21st November 2007, 07:54 PM	#27
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454	dogs seem to enjoy their water flavored. some people do too. certain stinky springs have sought-after water. sulphur is a popular flavor. saratoga springs comes to mind. evidently, if the water tastes bad enough, it gains healing properties.
quarky Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,454

21st November 2007, 09:23 PM	#28
The Man Scourge, of the supernatural Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 7,525	Does pure alcohol have a flavor? Hydrogen peroxide? Methyl-Ethyl Ketone? Sulfuric acid? Polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB)? Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD)? I do not know but I am sure there are plenty of colorless, odorless and tasteless liquids and a lot of them aren’t very good for you (like GB type nerve agents). They simply lack the chemicals needed to trigger our sense of taste.
	__________________ "Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius")

21st November 2007, 11:02 PM	#29
rocketdodger Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hyperion Posts: 6,669	Originally Posted by drzeus99 It has no properties of sweet/salty/sour/bitter/umami (savory), and so becomes something that's untasteable. If I remember correctly, umami is actually a receptor for some amino acid or derviative therof, right? (maybe glutamic acid or glutamate or whatever?) I think that is why MSG adds flavor to stuff. ETA-- yep, just checked it out. Umami is glutamates in general.
	Last edited by rocketdodger; 21st November 2007 at 11:03 PM.

22nd November 2007, 01:27 AM	#30
DocTwisted New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 13	While this is rather amusing, I think it's based on a false premise regarding the nature of the water we drink. I know the water I drink now that I live in Hollister, CA is not the same as the water I drank growing up in Salinas, CA... and we're talking about a geographical distance of a measly 30 miles. Ever since moving, I've felt the tap water had a more metallic tang to it. Maybe it's that I'm tasting a differing mix of impurities in the water? Are you talking about truly pure H2O, which doesn't exist anywhere in nature? because I gotta tell you, I've tried distilled water too, and had a slight sweetness to it. I'd probably drink more of that if I hadn't been warned how doing so can strip minerals out of your body.
DocTwisted New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 13