Security guards and patting down women

EeneyMinnieMoe · 18th November 2007, 07:23 PM

A while back, Jimmy Carter was doing a book signing at a local Barnes and Nobles to promote his latest book. My friend and I went to see him and got signed copies of Beyond the White House.

Of course, the security around the bookstore was enormous and my friend and I were subjected to full body, spread-your-arms pat downs by the Secret Service and had every inch of our bags searched and other security measures before we got anywhere near the President. Even flying to the United States from Poland after the foiled terrorist plot in England, I wasn't searched like that. Unsurprisingly. It wasn't pleasant but what can you do.

Whenever I show the signature to someone and they ask about security, they're often really surprised and outraged the security patted down two teenage girls and that they didn't at least have women do it.

Now, after giving it some thought, I really don't think it matters to me. Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it.

In fact, when security at airports call out female personnel and ask you to step aside somewhere, it kinda makes it even more uncomfortable and embarrassing for you.

Do any of the women on here feel the same way?

Modified · 18th November 2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it.

As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point.

TX50 · 18th November 2007, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Whenever I show the signature to someone and they ask about security, they're often really surprised and outraged the security patted down two teenage girls and that they didn't at least have women do it.

Now, after giving it some thought, I really don't think it matters to me. Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it.

You were not stripsearched. Having male guards do it is strange, though,
since it leaves the guards open to accusations from the women.

[anecdote]
When I served in Northern Ireland in the early 1980s we weren't alowed to
search females at all. All we could do was turn out their bags and ask them
to open their coats. Proper searching of females was done by female security
forces members - absolutely no exceptions.
[/anecdote]

EeneyMinnieMoe · 18th November 2007, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by TX50

You were not stripsearched. Having male guards do it is strange, though,
since it leaves the guards open to accusations from the women.

[anecdote]
When I served in Northern Ireland in the early 1980s we weren't allowed to
search females at all. All we could do was turn out their bags and ask them
to open their coats. Proper searching of females was done by female security
forces members - absolutely no exceptions.
[/anecdote]

Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does.

slingblade · 18th November 2007, 08:39 PM

I wouldn't like having some strange man pushing his hands between my thighs and over my breasts, especially in public where everyone can watch us dance. Putting up with it would depend on how badly I wanted that autograph, for instance, or whatever I was after. Meaning, I would, if I wanted something that bad, but boy, I sure wouldn't like it.

Ladewig · 18th November 2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does.

True, but there must be large numbers of female Secret Service agents. They knew about this appearance weeks in advance and therefore had time to assign female agents.

gtc · 18th November 2007, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

True, but there must be large numbers of female Secret Service agents. They knew about this appearance weeks in advance and therefore had time to assign female agents.

Precisely.

It seems like a lot to go to through to get Carter's signature.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 18th November 2007, 09:01 PM

He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President.

And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter.

Does anyone want to see the autograph?

I could upload it...

Radrook · 18th November 2007, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Modified

As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point.

Any type of authorized or unauthorized invasive procedure of this type is perceived as a humiliation. Perhaps the use of robots will lessen the psychological discomfort. But for that to happen people who feel victimized by such procedures have to demand a change. Otherwise those giving the examination or doing the degrading searches simply don't give a hoot! In fact, some might even be enjoying themselves immensly.

BPSCG · 19th November 2007, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President.

And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter.

Does anyone want to see the autograph?

I could upload it...

Here's an amusing Carter autograph.

TragicMonkey · 19th November 2007, 12:13 PM

I have no objections to searches, no matter how rigorous, provided I get to pick which of the available security persons conducts the search. It's only fair that if I'm going to be stripping off, I get to pick the cutest ones to watch.

I'm a threat to security, but not in the sense they are thinking of.

tkingdoll · 19th November 2007, 12:25 PM

[unsure but sticking neck out anyway]

I think in the UK it's illegal for a male security person to body search a female.

[/unsure but sticking neck out anyway]

Billdave2 · 19th November 2007, 02:01 PM

When I was in college (after I turned 21) I worked as a minimum wage security guard on campus. We had to be liscensed by the State, which meant taking a one hour coarse, which was taught by the security company's owner (it was about as informative as you would imagine). We were taught that if we had to frisk a female, to use a pen or pencil as a wand to feel for hidden objects. Of coarse, we were told that if we ever did actually do anything other than call campus police if we had a problem we would be fired.

Tsukasa Buddha · 19th November 2007, 03:15 PM

The obvious answer is to require gay security.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 19th November 2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Modified

As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point.

Yes. There is no way to make body pat downs NOT humiliating. When a woman does it to a woman, it's still humiliating. So much so it hardly matters who does it.

Ok, question for the guys then. Is there a difference between being searched by a woman and being searched by a man? Are either any more or any less invasive?

gtc · 19th November 2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Yes. There is no way to make body pat downs NOT humiliating. When a woman does it to a woman, it's still humiliating. So much so it hardly matters who does it.

Ok, question for the guys then. Is there a difference between being searched by a woman and being searched by a man? Are either any more or any less invasive?

No difference to me. I didn't feel humiliated the one time it happened to me at an airport.

Mr. Skinny · 19th November 2007, 04:45 PM

Back in the 80's when I worked as a cop, female officers were few and far between, so we were taught that if you had to frisk a female a female officer wasn't available, we could do a cursory pat down, using the backs of our hands to check for guns and the like. Once that was done and they were in handcuffs, we'd inform the jailers that a re-search needed to be performed.

Now that I think about it, it's kinda creepy having to frisk someone also. I mean, I had no real desire to have to run my hands in and under men's clothing and having to feel around their "package" looking for drugs or guns. Then again, it's preferable to getting shot, and you do get used to it in time.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 19th November 2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny

Back in the 80's when I worked as a cop, female officers were few and far between, so we were taught that if you had to frisk a female a female officer wasn't available, we could do a cursory pat down, using the backs of our hands to check for guns and the like. Once that was done and they were in handcuffs, we'd inform the jailers that a re-search needed to be performed.

Now that I think about it, it's kinda creepy having to frisk someone also. I mean, I had no real desire to have to run my hands in and under men's clothing and having to feel around their "package" looking for drugs or guns. Then again, it's preferable to getting shot, and you do get used to it in time.

You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched.

And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum?

TragicMonkey · 20th November 2007, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched.

And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum?

Depends on how attractive the man in question is.

chillzero · 20th November 2007, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched.

And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum?

Having lived with a prison officer for several years, I can agree with this. Additionally, you get patted down only once in a while, and (other than junkie prisoners and the like) get strip searched even more rarely. Officers have to do this regularly, and it's not in the kind of relaxed environment as a doctor's examination. It's hostile and stressful for all involved, apart from the obvious unpleasantness.

Obsequious · 20th November 2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by gtc

No difference to me. I didn't feel humiliated the one time it happened to me at an airport.

I'm going to agree with gtc. I don't like to be touched in general and by strangers in particular, but the couple of times patdowns happened to me at airports, it was no big deal. My companions expressed indignation and outrage, but over what? An extra 90 seconds delay and hardly more contact than you'll have with other strangers during the boarding crush? I wouldn't have cared if it was a man doing it and I suffer intense social anxiety around males; they barely touched any of us, certainly not on the chest or between the legs. In what way is a quick pat like this "humiliating?"

Maybe it's different in different places, more thorough or something. Perhaps my experiences have been anomalous because I have somewhat disarming/harmless appearance.

Beerina · 21st November 2007, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does.

Still, former presidents making public appearances is hardly new. They should have a female agent there to search females, especially teens (tho' I imagine there's no shortage of Mrs. Slocumb-like creatures out there, "Ooooh, what a strappin' lad you are. Are you sure you don't want to search under my skirt? There could be something there. No? Oh.

"

Dorian Gray · 21st November 2007, 01:42 PM

Are you guys suggesting that the Secret Service institute an affirmative action policy so a girl can be patted down all over by another girl instead of by a guy? What's next, only blacks can pat down blacks?

EeneyMinnieMoe · 21st November 2007, 06:14 PM

I'm not. Just to clarify, it's other people who act outraged- I'd rather not be searched, period.

hipparchia · 22nd November 2007, 04:50 AM

A couple of weeks ago, I had my first pat-down. Did not expect it, since last time I flew I passed without that search.

Totally weird experience. I was searched by that cute petite lady. Totally don't understand the crotch grabbing.

Tokenconservative · 22nd November 2007, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President.

And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter.

Does anyone want to see the autograph?

I could upload it...

LOL!

I love libs....their guys can rape women, have sex with their interns and lie about it, and have their security feel up teenaged girls and hey, it's all good!

Who the hell is Carter so afraid of? Conservatives hate him, sure, but we are not the ones who engage in violence.

That's you guys...the ones who love him.

As to non-American threats: why would any Islamist kill this walking, jibber-jabbering treasonous billboard for their "cause"?

Tokie

Tokenconservative · 22nd November 2007, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by hipparchia

A couple of weeks ago, I had my first pat-down. Did not expect it, since last time I flew I passed without that search.

Totally weird experience. I was searched by that cute petite lady. Totally don't understand the crotch grabbing.

I was patted down like that by a male cop years ago (I am male). He spent a LOT of time around my crotch.

Meh. No biggie. I mean, well...I hope he didn't think there was no biggie...I mean...aw hell, never mind.

Tokie

Darat · 22nd November 2007, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

[unsure but sticking neck out anyway]

I think in the UK it's illegal for a male security person to body search a female.

[/unsure but sticking neck out anyway]

Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (were the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around.

chillzero · 22nd November 2007, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (where the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around.

When I was a door steward (not allowed to call them bouncers

) a few years back, I was a valuable resource on the team, because we were informed that the male staff could not search or pat down females, so that was my job. Similarly I had to ask a male steward to search any men I thought required it.

Tokenconservative · 22nd November 2007, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (where the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around.

Don't know about GB, but here it's situational. If the cops have a good reason to suspect a NEED to pat down someone (usually involves a weapon) then they can do it male or female. Here (US) for a time, they used to have to call in a female cop to do the patdown, but something changed in the 90s, so that this is not ALWAYS necessary.

Apparently, what changed, was the view that the life of the cop is more important than bowing to feminist hysteria and PC pressure.

Tokie

Dorian Gray · 24th November 2007, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

LOL!

I love libs....their guys can rape women, have sex with their interns and lie about it, and have their security feel up teenaged girls and hey, it's all good!

Who the hell is Carter so afraid of? Conservatives hate him, sure, but we are not the ones who engage in violence.

That's you guys...the ones who love him.

As to non-American threats: why would any Islamist kill this walking, jibber-jabbering treasonous billboard for their "cause"?

Tokie

Heh, I love conservatives....their guys can torture people, have sex with their male interns and lie about it, get arrested for soliciting sex in a men's room and lie about it, and have their security arrest anyone they see fit and hey, it's all good!

Who the hell is TokenConservative so afraid of, besides Ironic Post of the Year? He says conservatives don't engage in violence, but Abu Ghraib, and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and oh, yeah, shooting people in the face.

Dorian Gray · 24th November 2007, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

I was patted down like that by a male cop years ago (I am male). He spent a LOT of time around my crotch.

Meh. No biggie. I mean, well...I hope he didn't think there was no biggie...I mean...aw hell, never mind.

Tokie

Look! Another ambiguously gay Conservative!

EeneyMinnieMoe · 24th November 2007, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (were the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around.

That was my question: are there any men here who would be offended at being search invasively by a female? Or is it all the same to you?

18th November 2007, 07:23 PM	#1
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	Security guards and patting down women A while back, Jimmy Carter was doing a book signing at a local Barnes and Nobles to promote his latest book. My friend and I went to see him and got signed copies of Beyond the White House. Of course, the security around the bookstore was enormous and my friend and I were subjected to full body, spread-your-arms pat downs by the Secret Service and had every inch of our bags searched and other security measures before we got anywhere near the President. Even flying to the United States from Poland after the foiled terrorist plot in England, I wasn't searched like that. Unsurprisingly. It wasn't pleasant but what can you do. Whenever I show the signature to someone and they ask about security, they're often really surprised and outraged the security patted down two teenage girls and that they didn't at least have women do it. Now, after giving it some thought, I really don't think it matters to me. Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it. In fact, when security at airports call out female personnel and ask you to step aside somewhere, it kinda makes it even more uncomfortable and embarrassing for you. Do any of the women on here feel the same way?

18th November 2007, 07:50 PM	#3
TX50 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,381	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Whenever I show the signature to someone and they ask about security, they're often really surprised and outraged the security patted down two teenage girls and that they didn't at least have women do it. Now, after giving it some thought, I really don't think it matters to me. Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it. You were not stripsearched. Having male guards do it is strange, though, since it leaves the guards open to accusations from the women. [anecdote] When I served in Northern Ireland in the early 1980s we weren't alowed to search females at all. All we could do was turn out their bags and ask them to open their coats. Proper searching of females was done by female security forces members - absolutely no exceptions. [/anecdote]
TX50 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,381

18th November 2007, 08:39 PM	#5
slingblade 63% similar to you Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In This Fog, Who Knows? Posts: 15,124	I wouldn't like having some strange man pushing his hands between my thighs and over my breasts, especially in public where everyone can watch us dance. Putting up with it would depend on how badly I wanted that autograph, for instance, or whatever I was after. Meaning, I would, if I wanted something that bad, but boy, I sure wouldn't like it.
	__________________ http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f1..._jewelrycraft/

18th November 2007, 08:47 PM	#6
Ladewig Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: USA Posts: 10,244	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does. True, but there must be large numbers of female Secret Service agents. They knew about this appearance weeks in advance and therefore had time to assign female agents.
	__________________ When I see all the kooky things posted on the JREF forums, I can't help but think of Max Bialystock's lament: "They come here, they all come here, how do they find us?"

18th November 2007, 09:11 PM	#9
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,831	Originally Posted by Modified As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point. Any type of authorized or unauthorized invasive procedure of this type is perceived as a humiliation. Perhaps the use of robots will lessen the psychological discomfort. But for that to happen people who feel victimized by such procedures have to demand a change. Otherwise those giving the examination or doing the degrading searches simply don't give a hoot! In fact, some might even be enjoying themselves immensly.
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,831

18th November 2007, 07:30 PM	#2
Modified Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,224	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Being stripsearched is so degrading and humiliating and uncomfortable, it doesn't make any difference who does it. As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point.

18th November 2007, 08:29 PM	#4
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	Originally Posted by TX50 You were not stripsearched. Having male guards do it is strange, though, since it leaves the guards open to accusations from the women. [anecdote] When I served in Northern Ireland in the early 1980s we weren't allowed to search females at all. All we could do was turn out their bags and ask them to open their coats. Proper searching of females was done by female security forces members - absolutely no exceptions. [/anecdote] Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does.

18th November 2007, 08:55 PM	#7
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,109	Originally Posted by Ladewig True, but there must be large numbers of female Secret Service agents. They knew about this appearance weeks in advance and therefore had time to assign female agents. Precisely. It seems like a lot to go to through to get Carter's signature.

18th November 2007, 09:01 PM	#8
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President. And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter. Does anyone want to see the autograph? I could upload it...

19th November 2007, 07:48 AM	#10
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President. And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter. Does anyone want to see the autograph? I could upload it... Here's an amusing Carter autograph.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

19th November 2007, 12:13 PM	#11
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 18,053	I have no objections to searches, no matter how rigorous, provided I get to pick which of the available security persons conducts the search. It's only fair that if I'm going to be stripping off, I get to pick the cutest ones to watch. I'm a threat to security, but not in the sense they are thinking of.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

19th November 2007, 12:25 PM	#12
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	[unsure but sticking neck out anyway] I think in the UK it's illegal for a male security person to body search a female. [/unsure but sticking neck out anyway]
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie Last edited by tkingdoll; 19th November 2007 at 12:26 PM.

19th November 2007, 02:01 PM	#13
Billdave2 Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Anderson, South Carolina Posts: 590	When I was in college (after I turned 21) I worked as a minimum wage security guard on campus. We had to be liscensed by the State, which meant taking a one hour coarse, which was taught by the security company's owner (it was about as informative as you would imagine). We were taught that if we had to frisk a female, to use a pen or pencil as a wand to feel for hidden objects. Of coarse, we were told that if we ever did actually do anything other than call campus police if we had a problem we would be fired.

19th November 2007, 03:15 PM	#14
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 5,078	The obvious answer is to require gay security.
	__________________ Monk to Zen Master: What happens after death, master? Zen master: I don’t know. Monk: But you are a master! Master: Yes, but I’m not a dead one yet.

19th November 2007, 04:22 PM	#15
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	Originally Posted by Modified As a man who has been given a prostate exam by both male and female doctors, I see your point. Yes. There is no way to make body pat downs NOT humiliating. When a woman does it to a woman, it's still humiliating. So much so it hardly matters who does it. Ok, question for the guys then. Is there a difference between being searched by a woman and being searched by a man? Are either any more or any less invasive?

19th November 2007, 04:42 PM	#16
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,109	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Yes. There is no way to make body pat downs NOT humiliating. When a woman does it to a woman, it's still humiliating. So much so it hardly matters who does it. Ok, question for the guys then. Is there a difference between being searched by a woman and being searched by a man? Are either any more or any less invasive? No difference to me. I didn't feel humiliated the one time it happened to me at an airport.

19th November 2007, 04:45 PM	#17
Mr. Skinny Alien Cryogenic Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 7,242	Back in the 80's when I worked as a cop, female officers were few and far between, so we were taught that if you had to frisk a female a female officer wasn't available, we could do a cursory pat down, using the backs of our hands to check for guns and the like. Once that was done and they were in handcuffs, we'd inform the jailers that a re-search needed to be performed. Now that I think about it, it's kinda creepy having to frisk someone also. I mean, I had no real desire to have to run my hands in and under men's clothing and having to feel around their "package" looking for drugs or guns. Then again, it's preferable to getting shot, and you do get used to it in time.
	__________________ U.S.L.S 1969-1975 "thanks skinny. And bite me. :-) - The Bad Astronomer, 11/15/02 on Paltalk "He's harmless in a rather dorky way." - Katana "Deities do not organize, they command." - Hokulele

19th November 2007, 07:05 PM	#18
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny Back in the 80's when I worked as a cop, female officers were few and far between, so we were taught that if you had to frisk a female a female officer wasn't available, we could do a cursory pat down, using the backs of our hands to check for guns and the like. Once that was done and they were in handcuffs, we'd inform the jailers that a re-search needed to be performed. Now that I think about it, it's kinda creepy having to frisk someone also. I mean, I had no real desire to have to run my hands in and under men's clothing and having to feel around their "package" looking for drugs or guns. Then again, it's preferable to getting shot, and you do get used to it in time. You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched. And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum?

20th November 2007, 02:43 AM	#19
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 18,053	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched. And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum? Depends on how attractive the man in question is.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

20th November 2007, 04:50 AM	#20
chillzero Illustrated Infidel Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind my camera Posts: 14,042	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe You know, someone once told me that- that's sometimes as degrading to search and stripsearch as it is to be searched and stripsearched. And that's true- that it's as bad on the other side of the coin. Who would enjoy, excuse my language, shaking down a grown man's scrotum? Having lived with a prison officer for several years, I can agree with this. Additionally, you get patted down only once in a while, and (other than junkie prisoners and the like) get strip searched even more rarely. Officers have to do this regularly, and it's not in the kind of relaxed environment as a doctor's examination. It's hostile and stressful for all involved, apart from the obvious unpleasantness.
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20th November 2007, 10:03 AM	#21
Obsequious Thinker Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 179	Originally Posted by gtc No difference to me. I didn't feel humiliated the one time it happened to me at an airport. I'm going to agree with gtc. I don't like to be touched in general and by strangers in particular, but the couple of times patdowns happened to me at airports, it was no big deal. My companions expressed indignation and outrage, but over what? An extra 90 seconds delay and hardly more contact than you'll have with other strangers during the boarding crush? I wouldn't have cared if it was a man doing it and I suffer intense social anxiety around males; they barely touched any of us, certainly not on the chest or between the legs. In what way is a quick pat like this "humiliating?" Maybe it's different in different places, more thorough or something. Perhaps my experiences have been anomalous because I have somewhat disarming/harmless appearance.
Obsequious Thinker Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 179

21st November 2007, 07:41 AM	#22
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 15,788	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Just a guess but I think that since the Secret Service's main function is as bodyguards to the President and former Presidents and their families and other members of their administrations, they're not there to be security guards. So they don't make the same "accomodations" that airport security does. Still, former presidents making public appearances is hardly new. They should have a female agent there to search females, especially teens (tho' I imagine there's no shortage of Mrs. Slocumb-like creatures out there, "Ooooh, what a strappin' lad you are. Are you sure you don't want to search under my skirt? There could be something there. No? Oh. "
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 21st November 2007 at 07:42 AM.

21st November 2007, 01:42 PM	#23
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 14,614	Are you guys suggesting that the Secret Service institute an affirmative action policy so a girl can be patted down all over by another girl instead of by a guy? What's next, only blacks can pat down blacks?
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House I am a techno sadist - when I'm not beating you with my fists, I'm fisting you with my beats!

21st November 2007, 06:14 PM	#24
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	I'm not. Just to clarify, it's other people who act outraged- I'd rather not be searched, period.

22nd November 2007, 04:50 AM	#25
hipparchia Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 468	A couple of weeks ago, I had my first pat-down. Did not expect it, since last time I flew I passed without that search. Totally weird experience. I was searched by that cute petite lady. Totally don't understand the crotch grabbing.
	__________________ "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli

22nd November 2007, 05:07 AM	#26
Tokenconservative Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,204	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe He is a former President of the United States and an extraordinary person, if not President. And think how cool it will be to be able to tell, well, my sister's grandchildren that you saw Jimmy Carter. Does anyone want to see the autograph? I could upload it... LOL! I love libs....their guys can rape women, have sex with their interns and lie about it, and have their security feel up teenaged girls and hey, it's all good! Who the hell is Carter so afraid of? Conservatives hate him, sure, but we are not the ones who engage in violence. That's you guys...the ones who love him. As to non-American threats: why would any Islamist kill this walking, jibber-jabbering treasonous billboard for their "cause"? Tokie

22nd November 2007, 05:09 AM	#27
Tokenconservative Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,204	Originally Posted by hipparchia A couple of weeks ago, I had my first pat-down. Did not expect it, since last time I flew I passed without that search. Totally weird experience. I was searched by that cute petite lady. Totally don't understand the crotch grabbing. I was patted down like that by a male cop years ago (I am male). He spent a LOT of time around my crotch. Meh. No biggie. I mean, well...I hope he didn't think there was no biggie...I mean...aw hell, never mind. Tokie

22nd November 2007, 05:16 AM	#28
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 51,261	Originally Posted by tkingdoll [unsure but sticking neck out anyway] I think in the UK it's illegal for a male security person to body search a female. [/unsure but sticking neck out anyway] Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (were the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008 Last edited by Darat; 22nd November 2007 at 05:20 AM. Reason: h

22nd November 2007, 05:19 AM	#29
chillzero Illustrated Infidel Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind my camera Posts: 14,042	Originally Posted by Darat Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (where the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around. When I was a door steward (not allowed to call them bouncers ) a few years back, I was a valuable resource on the team, because we were informed that the male staff could not search or pat down females, so that was my job. Similarly I had to ask a male steward to search any men I thought required it.
	__________________ For Starthinker: http://www.chillzero.com/

22nd November 2007, 05:21 AM	#30
Tokenconservative Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,204	Originally Posted by Darat Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (where the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around. Don't know about GB, but here it's situational. If the cops have a good reason to suspect a NEED to pat down someone (usually involves a weapon) then they can do it male or female. Here (US) for a time, they used to have to call in a female cop to do the patdown, but something changed in the 90s, so that this is not ALWAYS necessary. Apparently, what changed, was the view that the life of the cop is more important than bowing to feminist hysteria and PC pressure. Tokie

24th November 2007, 04:29 PM	#31
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 14,614	Originally Posted by Tokenconservative LOL! I love libs....their guys can rape women, have sex with their interns and lie about it, and have their security feel up teenaged girls and hey, it's all good! Who the hell is Carter so afraid of? Conservatives hate him, sure, but we are not the ones who engage in violence. That's you guys...the ones who love him. As to non-American threats: why would any Islamist kill this walking, jibber-jabbering treasonous billboard for their "cause"? Tokie Heh, I love conservatives....their guys can torture people, have sex with their male interns and lie about it, get arrested for soliciting sex in a men's room and lie about it, and have their security arrest anyone they see fit and hey, it's all good! Who the hell is TokenConservative so afraid of, besides Ironic Post of the Year? He says conservatives don't engage in violence, but Abu Ghraib, and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and oh, yeah, shooting people in the face.
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House I am a techno sadist - when I'm not beating you with my fists, I'm fisting you with my beats!

24th November 2007, 04:30 PM	#32
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 14,614	Originally Posted by Tokenconservative I was patted down like that by a male cop years ago (I am male). He spent a LOT of time around my crotch. Meh. No biggie. I mean, well...I hope he didn't think there was no biggie...I mean...aw hell, never mind. Tokie Look! Another ambiguously gay Conservative!
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House I am a techno sadist - when I'm not beating you with my fists, I'm fisting you with my beats!

24th November 2007, 05:55 PM	#33
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,545	Originally Posted by Darat Not sure if it is the law but most organisations (including official ones like the police) generally prohibit "intimate" searches (were the body is touched) of women by males but curiously not the other way around. That was my question: are there any men here who would be offended at being search invasively by a female? Or is it all the same to you?