Ron Paul on Alex Jones today

jezcoe · 21st November 2007, 08:58 AM

Kind of Politics but Alex Jones is involved. Too bad I am Traveling today and won't be able to hear what the nut has to discuss with Congressman Paul. The fact that Paul is actively courting the fringe groups means to me that his campaign is destined to implode the more popular and mainstream he becomes. But for now I am content to sit back and watch the show.

Pardalis · 21st November 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by jezcoe

The fact that Paul is actively courting the fringe groups means to me that his campaign is destined to implode the more popular and mainstream he becomes.

I tend to agree. Ron Paul should know who Alex Jones is by now, and what he represents. There's no excuse now.

Drudgewire · 21st November 2007, 09:06 AM

I was wondering who was going to put the final nail in the coffin of that campaign. Should have known it would be Ron himself.

Dolt.

MetalliSociety · 21st November 2007, 09:12 AM

Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him.

JAStewart · 21st November 2007, 09:59 AM

Someone grab a soundclip

jezcoe · 21st November 2007, 10:03 AM

The Congressman has been on Jones's show before. Someone from his campaign, Jesse Benton I think, talks to the show about once a week. Of course Paul knows who Alex Jones is. It is the fact that he is courting the crazies that turns me off to him the most. I doubt that 911 will ever come up, Jones tends to tone down particular theories depending on who he is talking to. I predict is will be about the Liberty Dollar seizure, The War, the Federal Reserve and the Plunging dollar. Not too far in the realm of lunacy but far enough in to appeal to Jones's audience.

nicepants · 21st November 2007, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by MetalliSociety

Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him.

He is on record on this issue. Someone asked him if he believed 911 was an inside job and his response was "Absolutely Not".

Most of the CFs over at LCF assumed he was just lying by saying that so he could get elected, then he could launch a new investigation.

T.A.M. · 21st November 2007, 11:56 AM

jhc...well not that I thought he had a chance anyway...If MSM gets a hold of this, and what Alex Jones is all about, I am guessing RP will be done for.

TAM

Drudgewire · 21st November 2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by nicepants

Most of the CFs over at LCF assumed he was just lying by saying that so he could get elected, then he could launch a new investigation.

Yeah. Funny how these are the guys who claim they just want our elected officials to be honest with us.

jberryhill · 21st November 2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him.

The weasel answer to that is pretty simple, along the lines of:

"I know a lot of people believe that, and while I haven't looked at their evidence in detail, there certainly are a lot of unanswered questions about 9/11 and we certainly need an honest and thorough investigation instead of a cover up."

Truthers generally take a statement like that as meaning the speaker is 'one of us'. Anyone vaguely suggesting that the Bush administration wasn't forthcoming about its failure to take action prior to 9/11 is understood by truthers to mean that the speaker believes it to be an "inside job". This is the basis of the bulk of sites like Patriots Question 9/11, for example.

Plantfoam · 21st November 2007, 01:15 PM

The last time I heard Jones on Coast to Coast, he stated that he has known RP for 14 years, and he had just finished having dinner with him.

This is nothing new.

1337m4n · 21st November 2007, 01:37 PM

Youtube this now now now!!!

ETA: I have a feeling this is Game Over for our good buddy Ron.

Drudgewire · 21st November 2007, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

ETA: I have a feeling this is Game Over for our good buddy Ron.

Outside of the Internet, the game never really started.

leftysergeant · 21st November 2007, 01:47 PM

Ron Paul has always been on board with Jones on the Federal Reserve. He is probably more after the single-issue people who want the Fed abolished, but, if he can pick up a few useful idiots, why not? Jones and RP are both playing on people's fears. It's a basic strategy among the tin-foilers and white nationalists, which is another block of voters that RP needs to tap, albeit discretely. His states' rights position would be a boon to those who want to undo a lot of civil rights laws at the federal level.

Plantfoam · 21st November 2007, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Ron Paul has always been on board with Jones on the Federal Reserve. He is probably more after the single-issue people who want the Fed abolished, but, if he can pick up a few useful idiots, why not? Jones and RP are both playing on people's fears. It's a basic strategy among the tin-foilers and white nationalists, which is another block of voters that RP needs to tap, albeit discretely. His states' rights position would be a boon to those who want to undo a lot of civil rights laws at the federal level.

As you state, they use people's fears to further their respective causes. Jones also says that the government instills fear into the public through choreographed events, since fear equals control. I sense some irony here.

Good Lt · 21st November 2007, 03:16 PM

Gave it some visibility here.

AMTMAN · 21st November 2007, 04:39 PM

I have yet to decide who I would vote for in 2008. I do know the one person I will not vote for, Ron Paul.

Father Dagon · 21st November 2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Good Lt

Gave it some visibility here.

Ouch!

OldTigerCub · 21st November 2007, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Good Lt

Gave it some visibility here.

I love the Jawa Report, but that webpage snapshot made my eyes hurt!

Good Lt · 22nd November 2007, 06:47 AM

So I think some people yesterday saw my Jawa Report post and said adios to Dr. Paul:

The Liberty Papers:

Quote:

For some more pandering to the Troofers and other conspiracy theorist whackjobs. I’ll listen for anything of note, but as of now, I’m done with Ron Paul.

The Ron Paul campaign has unfortunately become a gathering place for 9/11 “Truther” morons, racists, neo-Nazis, Southern secessionists, fascists, conspiracy theorists, wannabe authoritarians, Birchers, and nativists that I do not want to be associated with. Worst of all, the candidate himself knows about these err….outside of the mainstream supporters and he refuses to publically repudiate them and refund the donations from the most high profile ones. (No Lew, I’m not calling for Ron Paul to do background checks on all of his supporters, just refuse the donations from the high profile scumbags). If a candidate thinks its alright to make common cause with these people, especially one who is running a “principled” campaign on restoring liberty, than I have to question his conscience for aligning with these people at best and question his ability to lead at worst. I’ve come to the conclusion that a Ron Paul candidacy unless he repudiates these people who do not share the belief in liberty, will harm the overall freedom movement by giving the impression to the American people that “freedom” and “liberty” are just code words for fascism, racism, and conspiracy mongering like the “New World Order” and the “North American Union”.
The precedent is there. Ron Paul needs to follow it for entire freedom movement’s sake.

Until then, this classical liberal is not a part of the Ron Paul Revolution.

Publius Endures:

Quote:

A day after finally coming out with guns a-blazin' to discredit the whackjob fringe of his supporters, Ron Paul makes a return to Alex Jones' radio show. As a result, at least one fence-sitter has given up on him. As has been argued time and again, the problem isn't so much that whack-jobs happen to support Ron Paul; the problem is that he has no problem wasting his time actively recruiting them into his movement. If he didn't waste time doing that, he wouldn't have to waste time explaining why he wasted time with them in the first place....not to mention the fact that just about every true libertarian would have jumped off the fence to support him at this point.

As usual, I know that this post is going to get me slammed by the "Rockwell Brigades," who will most likely mistake me for a shill for Giuliani (now apparently named "Benito"). Of course, this will ignore the fact that I've been actively supporting Rep. Paul for months, and that my goal all along has been to persuade the other supporters that they might want to realize that the libertarian movement is much bigger than one man, and that a rationally-based campaign is the only way to get him out of the single-digits.

Alas, the personality cult of Ron Paul continues to grow, while the core philosophy of libertarianism becomes less and less important to the "netroots." In his interview with Jay Leno, Rep. Paul pointed out that his message is a simple message that isn't really his; indeed, IIRC he pointed out that while he is personally not perfect, freedom is. Well, now that the Ron Paul movement has started to hit the mainstream, making appeals for money to people who have no understanding of the word "freedom" hurts rather than hinders the freedom message (not to mention the campaign more generally).

I am trying to listen to the rebroadcast right now, but unless he is appearing for the purpose of disavowing Jones (so far, not so good), just about anything he could say to Jones at this point makes me sick. For the record- as someone who watched the Pentagon burn, and heard the Pentagon plane flying over my apartment less than a mile from the crash site- any deliberate attempt to court support from those who deny what happened that day is personally insulting to me.

But to go a step further. Plenty of commenters, myself included, have pointed out that Ron Paul could either be the best or worst thing to happen to libertarianism in decades. In order for him to be good for libertarianism (and for that matter, the country), he has to either win or, more likely, make people think. Continuing to seek out the support of 9/11 Truthers and nutcases is the surest way to ensure that his appeal remains exceedingly limited and to ensure that libertarianism as a philosophy becomes irreparably associated with these nutcases. In other words- actively seeking out the support of these people hurts both the Paul campaign and the libertarian philosophy more generally.

What make this worse is that it shows Paul's priorities- he would rather spend time chasing the votes and support of a tiny number of 9/11 Truthers than chasing the votes and support of the millions of libertarians, disillusioned Republicans, and disillusioned Democrats. It's simple math, really: he has limited resources. Why spend those limited resources on a small group of whack-jobs than on a large group of people who have been hungry for a politician speaking the language of freedom ever since Reagan left office?

I sincerely hope that what he said tonight was strong and indisputable against the 9/11 Truthers. If it wasn't, I am going to need some serious convincing to return to the Paul camp. My support will either go to Obama, Thompson, or, just as likely, no one at all.

Will update once I've heard the substance of Paul's interview. So far, this is the most tedious and intellectually barren 22 minutes of radio I've ever heard (the interview hasn't come up yet)- and I used to listen to Rush!

Other non-Paulians who helped spread the word:

Little Green Footballs
Bits Blog
Liberal Values
Hot Air

Good deal. Two defections is alright with me. Since he has only fringe support, every vote he loses will hurt him.

Keep up the quest for TROOF, Dr. Paul!

Alt+F4 · 22nd November 2007, 07:40 AM

What was Ron Paul's position on the Luciferians that are will take over the entire planet by late next year?

OneShotKi11 · 22nd November 2007, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by jezcoe

The Congressman has been on Jones's show before. Someone from his campaign, Jesse Benton I think, talks to the show about once a week. Of course Paul knows who Alex Jones is. It is the fact that he is courting the crazies that turns me off to him the most. I doubt that 911 will ever come up, Jones tends to tone down particular theories depending on who he is talking to. I predict is will be about the Liberty Dollar seizure, The War, the Federal Reserve and the Plunging dollar. Not too far in the realm of lunacy but far enough in to appeal to Jones's audience.

Get it through all your heads already Ron Paul courts to everyone and not anyone!!! He treats everyone the same and wont disregard you because of your dam beliefs. The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind!

What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)!
Most of you will never understand because your to involved with trying to appear politically correct instead of actually being politically correct!

Alex Jones is a man!
A man born of this country!
A Man born with liberties and rights this country has promised for him!
And a man who supports Ron Pauls message!
Alex Jones personal beliefs have nothing to do with Ron Paul and for you to judge Ron Paul based on what Alex believes is stupid of this community!

YOu guys link Alex Jones to 9/11 retard conspiracy's which is infact what the man believes, but is not the mans life! It is but of one portion!

Alex Jones weather you like him or not agree with him or dont is a man who believes in civil liberties, the constitution, the bill of rights and all the ideals Ron Paul stands for!

Here is a quote from his page infowars:
"As featured in such publications as The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, The Dallas Morning News, The Los Angeles Times, The Austin-American Statesman, and The Austin Chronicle, Alex Jones has created a powerful platform in an attempt to re-create a Bill of Rights, freedom-orientated culture in the face of an ever more federalized and security-obsessed America."

Ron Paul believes in liberty for all, and not liberty for everyone except those who believe in stupid conspiracy theories. Or those that the James Randi Educational Foundation might find as far fetched!
FREEDOM FOR ALL!!!

Like i said you guys would rather appear good to the majority then to actually be good to everyone! Ron Paul will not turn away from anyone who believes his message no matter how bad they might look to everyone else!!!

Dr Adequate · 22nd November 2007, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by OneShotKi11

Get it through all your heads already Ron Paul courts to everyone and not anyone!!! He treats everyone the same and wont disregard you because of your dam beliefs. The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind!

What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)!
Most of you will never understand because your to involved with trying to appear politically correct instead of actually being politically correct!

Alex Jones is a man!

Let us concede, for the sake of argument, that Alex Jones is a man, and per se not unworthy of Ron Paul's attention.

While I applaud your egalitarian sympathies, I would point out that at the last count your great and free republic had a population of around three hundred million, of whom around two hundred million are entitled to vote.

Were Congressman Paul to spend a mere fifteen minutes discussing his ideas with each of the elctorate, working twenty-four hours a day, every day, then his task would be complete sometime in the seventy-eighth century Anno Domini.

It follows that the good Congressman is obliged to be rather selective in his choice of interlocutors, and so one has to wonder at his judgement in lavishing so much of his time on a freakin' grade-A loon from Cuckooville.

Checkmite · 22nd November 2007, 07:53 PM

That's it. Between this and Ron Paul's vowed opposition to alleged "secularism", I can't see myself voting for him.

jezcoe · 22nd November 2007, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by OneShotKi11

YOu guys link Alex Jones to 9/11 retard conspiracy's which is infact what the man believes, but is not the mans life! It is but of one portion!

Yes and the other portions are taken up with Luceferian, Moloch worshiping, federal reserve using, Child sacrificing masons.

Quote:

Alex Jones weather you like him or not agree with him or don't is a man who believes in civil liberties, the constitution, the bill of rights and all the ideals Ron Paul stands for!

Except for the part of the Constitution that authorizes an income tax.

timhau · 23rd November 2007, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by OneShotKi11

What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)!

So... anyone not appearing on Alex Jones's show is violating his civil liberties?

gtc · 23rd November 2007, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by OneShotKi11

The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind!

If he believes in civil liberties and rights and equality then he should not be accepting the support of people who believe in denying the civil liberties of others.

Father Dagon · 23rd November 2007, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Let us concede, for the sake of argument, that Alex Jones is a man, and per se not unworthy of Ron Paul's attention.

While I applaud your egalitarian sympathies, I would point out that at the last count your great and free republic had a population of around three hundred million, of whom around two hundred million are entitled to vote.

Were Congressman Paul to spend a mere fifteen minutes discussing his ideas with each of the elctorate, working twenty-four hours a day, every day, then his task would be complete sometime in the seventy-eighth century Anno Domini.

It follows that the good Congressman is obliged to be rather selective in his choice of interlocutors, and so one has to wonder at his judgement in lavishing so much of his time on a freakin' grade-A loon from Cuckooville.

Ergo: The wise man doesn't wear waders in order to protect himself from the mud. The wise man avoids the mud so that he can wear normal clothes.

And here's some required watching for Paul:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Of course Cohn doesn't get the whole picture, as he doesn't see the value of honour and real loyalties. But he gets it mostly right.

21st November 2007, 08:58 AM	#1
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84	Ron Paul on Alex Jones today Kind of Politics but Alex Jones is involved. Too bad I am Traveling today and won't be able to hear what the nut has to discuss with Congressman Paul. The fact that Paul is actively courting the fringe groups means to me that his campaign is destined to implode the more popular and mainstream he becomes. But for now I am content to sit back and watch the show.
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84

21st November 2007, 09:02 AM	#2
Pardalis Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 20,674	Originally Posted by jezcoe The fact that Paul is actively courting the fringe groups means to me that his campaign is destined to implode the more popular and mainstream he becomes. I tend to agree. Ron Paul should know who Alex Jones is by now, and what he represents. There's no excuse now.
	__________________ "It is best to change your point of view in response to reality than to insist reality has it wrong because it doesn't agree with your point of view." aggle-rithm "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin "All we know is that we know much less and less, but at least we know less and less about much more and more" Christopher Hitchens

21st November 2007, 09:06 AM	#3
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8,707	I was wondering who was going to put the final nail in the coffin of that campaign. Should have known it would be Ron himself. Dolt.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

21st November 2007, 09:12 AM	#4
MetalliSociety Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 323	Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him.
	__________________ Greatest internet cartoons EVER! http://www.newgrounds.com/collection/tankmen.html I win again! HIGHFIVE!

21st November 2007, 09:59 AM	#5
JAStewart Graduate Poster Tagger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Shetland Islands Posts: 1,224	Someone grab a soundclip
	__________________ Ignorance and google is a horrible combination. - BigAl

21st November 2007, 10:03 AM	#6
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84	The Congressman has been on Jones's show before. Someone from his campaign, Jesse Benton I think, talks to the show about once a week. Of course Paul knows who Alex Jones is. It is the fact that he is courting the crazies that turns me off to him the most. I doubt that 911 will ever come up, Jones tends to tone down particular theories depending on who he is talking to. I predict is will be about the Liberty Dollar seizure, The War, the Federal Reserve and the Plunging dollar. Not too far in the realm of lunacy but far enough in to appeal to Jones's audience.
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84

21st November 2007, 11:43 AM	#7
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,703	Originally Posted by MetalliSociety Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him. He is on record on this issue. Someone asked him if he believed 911 was an inside job and his response was "Absolutely Not". Most of the CFs over at LCF assumed he was just lying by saying that so he could get elected, then he could launch a new investigation.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein #4 on the CIT Enemies List

21st November 2007, 11:56 AM	#8
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 18,737	jhc...well not that I thought he had a chance anyway...If MSM gets a hold of this, and what Alex Jones is all about, I am guessing RP will be done for. TAM
	__________________ "Angry Young Man!" - The truth movement in a phrase, by O&A "His fists in the air, his head in the sand" - Angry Young Man, Billy Joel An English Professor that knew 9/11 from the Truth Movement quotes would conclude that hyperbole, simile, and metaphor caused the towers to collapse. - BigAl

21st November 2007, 12:35 PM	#9
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8,707	Originally Posted by nicepants Most of the CFs over at LCF assumed he was just lying by saying that so he could get elected, then he could launch a new investigation. Yeah. Funny how these are the guys who claim they just want our elected officials to be honest with us.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet Last edited by Drudgewire; 21st November 2007 at 12:36 PM.

21st November 2007, 01:08 PM	#10
jberryhill Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 259	Quote: Hopefully he goes on record on his show stateing he doesn't think it's an inside job. I wonder how Jones would react. Paul is a smart guy, and can probably debate him. The weasel answer to that is pretty simple, along the lines of: "I know a lot of people believe that, and while I haven't looked at their evidence in detail, there certainly are a lot of unanswered questions about 9/11 and we certainly need an honest and thorough investigation instead of a cover up." Truthers generally take a statement like that as meaning the speaker is 'one of us'. Anyone vaguely suggesting that the Bush administration wasn't forthcoming about its failure to take action prior to 9/11 is understood by truthers to mean that the speaker believes it to be an "inside job". This is the basis of the bulk of sites like Patriots Question 9/11, for example.

21st November 2007, 01:15 PM	#11
Plantfoam Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 219	The last time I heard Jones on Coast to Coast, he stated that he has known RP for 14 years, and he had just finished having dinner with him. This is nothing new.

21st November 2007, 01:37 PM	#12
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,026	Youtube this now now now!!! ETA: I have a feeling this is Game Over for our good buddy Ron.
	Last edited by 1337m4n; 21st November 2007 at 01:38 PM.

21st November 2007, 01:43 PM	#13
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8,707	Originally Posted by 1337m4n ETA: I have a feeling this is Game Over for our good buddy Ron. Outside of the Internet, the game never really started.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

21st November 2007, 01:47 PM	#14
leftysergeant Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 8,019	Ron Paul has always been on board with Jones on the Federal Reserve. He is probably more after the single-issue people who want the Fed abolished, but, if he can pick up a few useful idiots, why not? Jones and RP are both playing on people's fears. It's a basic strategy among the tin-foilers and white nationalists, which is another block of voters that RP needs to tap, albeit discretely. His states' rights position would be a boon to those who want to undo a lot of civil rights laws at the federal level.

21st November 2007, 02:05 PM	#15
Plantfoam Thinker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 219	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Ron Paul has always been on board with Jones on the Federal Reserve. He is probably more after the single-issue people who want the Fed abolished, but, if he can pick up a few useful idiots, why not? Jones and RP are both playing on people's fears. It's a basic strategy among the tin-foilers and white nationalists, which is another block of voters that RP needs to tap, albeit discretely. His states' rights position would be a boon to those who want to undo a lot of civil rights laws at the federal level. As you state, they use people's fears to further their respective causes. Jones also says that the government instills fear into the public through choreographed events, since fear equals control. I sense some irony here.

21st November 2007, 03:16 PM	#16
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Philly Posts: 1,083	Gave it some visibility here.
	__________________ There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination Living there you'll be free if you truly wish to be. - Willy Wonka, noted 9-11 Truther

21st November 2007, 04:39 PM	#17
AMTMAN Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 578	I have yet to decide who I would vote for in 2008. I do know the one person I will not vote for, Ron Paul.
AMTMAN Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 578	__________________ You of course would forget that the original burden of proof falls upon truthers. Swing Dangler commenting on the air phones issue Here is a diagram of a Boeing 767. I see numerous potential exit points. For example, the Nose Gear Door.... A-Train on "potential" exits on a 767.

21st November 2007, 04:41 PM	#18
Father Dagon Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 978	Originally Posted by Good Lt Gave it some visibility here. Ouch!

21st November 2007, 05:42 PM	#19
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,621	Originally Posted by Good Lt Gave it some visibility here. I love the Jawa Report, but that webpage snapshot made my eyes hurt!
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

22nd November 2007, 06:47 AM	#20
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Philly Posts: 1,083	So I think some people yesterday saw my Jawa Report post and said adios to Dr. Paul: The Liberty Papers: Quote: For some more pandering to the Troofers and other conspiracy theorist whackjobs. I’ll listen for anything of note, but as of now, I’m done with Ron Paul. The Ron Paul campaign has unfortunately become a gathering place for 9/11 “Truther” morons, racists, neo-Nazis, Southern secessionists, fascists, conspiracy theorists, wannabe authoritarians, Birchers, and nativists that I do not want to be associated with. Worst of all, the candidate himself knows about these err….outside of the mainstream supporters and he refuses to publically repudiate them and refund the donations from the most high profile ones. (No Lew, I’m not calling for Ron Paul to do background checks on all of his supporters, just refuse the donations from the high profile scumbags). If a candidate thinks its alright to make common cause with these people, especially one who is running a “principled” campaign on restoring liberty, than I have to question his conscience for aligning with these people at best and question his ability to lead at worst. I’ve come to the conclusion that a Ron Paul candidacy unless he repudiates these people who do not share the belief in liberty, will harm the overall freedom movement by giving the impression to the American people that “freedom” and “liberty” are just code words for fascism, racism, and conspiracy mongering like the “New World Order” and the “North American Union”. The precedent is there. Ron Paul needs to follow it for entire freedom movement’s sake. Until then, this classical liberal is not a part of the Ron Paul Revolution. Publius Endures: Quote: A day after finally coming out with guns a-blazin' to discredit the whackjob fringe of his supporters, Ron Paul makes a return to Alex Jones' radio show. As a result, at least one fence-sitter has given up on him. As has been argued time and again, the problem isn't so much that whack-jobs happen to support Ron Paul; the problem is that he has no problem wasting his time actively recruiting them into his movement. If he didn't waste time doing that, he wouldn't have to waste time explaining why he wasted time with them in the first place....not to mention the fact that just about every true libertarian would have jumped off the fence to support him at this point. As usual, I know that this post is going to get me slammed by the "Rockwell Brigades," who will most likely mistake me for a shill for Giuliani (now apparently named "Benito"). Of course, this will ignore the fact that I've been actively supporting Rep. Paul for months, and that my goal all along has been to persuade the other supporters that they might want to realize that the libertarian movement is much bigger than one man, and that a rationally-based campaign is the only way to get him out of the single-digits. Alas, the personality cult of Ron Paul continues to grow, while the core philosophy of libertarianism becomes less and less important to the "netroots." In his interview with Jay Leno, Rep. Paul pointed out that his message is a simple message that isn't really his; indeed, IIRC he pointed out that while he is personally not perfect, freedom is. Well, now that the Ron Paul movement has started to hit the mainstream, making appeals for money to people who have no understanding of the word "freedom" hurts rather than hinders the freedom message (not to mention the campaign more generally). I am trying to listen to the rebroadcast right now, but unless he is appearing for the purpose of disavowing Jones (so far, not so good), just about anything he could say to Jones at this point makes me sick. For the record- as someone who watched the Pentagon burn, and heard the Pentagon plane flying over my apartment less than a mile from the crash site- any deliberate attempt to court support from those who deny what happened that day is personally insulting to me. But to go a step further. Plenty of commenters, myself included, have pointed out that Ron Paul could either be the best or worst thing to happen to libertarianism in decades. In order for him to be good for libertarianism (and for that matter, the country), he has to either win or, more likely, make people think. Continuing to seek out the support of 9/11 Truthers and nutcases is the surest way to ensure that his appeal remains exceedingly limited and to ensure that libertarianism as a philosophy becomes irreparably associated with these nutcases. In other words- actively seeking out the support of these people hurts both the Paul campaign and the libertarian philosophy more generally. What make this worse is that it shows Paul's priorities- he would rather spend time chasing the votes and support of a tiny number of 9/11 Truthers than chasing the votes and support of the millions of libertarians, disillusioned Republicans, and disillusioned Democrats. It's simple math, really: he has limited resources. Why spend those limited resources on a small group of whack-jobs than on a large group of people who have been hungry for a politician speaking the language of freedom ever since Reagan left office? I sincerely hope that what he said tonight was strong and indisputable against the 9/11 Truthers. If it wasn't, I am going to need some serious convincing to return to the Paul camp. My support will either go to Obama, Thompson, or, just as likely, no one at all. Will update once I've heard the substance of Paul's interview. So far, this is the most tedious and intellectually barren 22 minutes of radio I've ever heard (the interview hasn't come up yet)- and I used to listen to Rush! Other non-Paulians who helped spread the word: Little Green Footballs Bits Blog Liberal Values Hot Air Good deal. Two defections is alright with me. Since he has only fringe support, every vote he loses will hurt him. Keep up the quest for TROOF, Dr. Paul!
	__________________ There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination Living there you'll be free if you truly wish to be. - Willy Wonka, noted 9-11 Truther

22nd November 2007, 07:40 AM	#21
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 5,521	What was Ron Paul's position on the Luciferians that are will take over the entire planet by late next year?
	__________________ "It is degenerate in that it tends to reverse the existing order. It is essentially immoral in that it will undignify marriage. It is ruinous to the progress of civilization in that it conduces to undermine religion." - Dr. Cyrus Townsend Brady, arguing against women's suffrage, 1915.

22nd November 2007, 12:39 PM	#22
OneShotKi11 Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 635	Originally Posted by jezcoe The Congressman has been on Jones's show before. Someone from his campaign, Jesse Benton I think, talks to the show about once a week. Of course Paul knows who Alex Jones is. It is the fact that he is courting the crazies that turns me off to him the most. I doubt that 911 will ever come up, Jones tends to tone down particular theories depending on who he is talking to. I predict is will be about the Liberty Dollar seizure, The War, the Federal Reserve and the Plunging dollar. Not too far in the realm of lunacy but far enough in to appeal to Jones's audience. Get it through all your heads already Ron Paul courts to everyone and not anyone!!! He treats everyone the same and wont disregard you because of your dam beliefs. The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind! What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)! Most of you will never understand because your to involved with trying to appear politically correct instead of actually being politically correct! Alex Jones is a man! A man born of this country! A Man born with liberties and rights this country has promised for him! And a man who supports Ron Pauls message! Alex Jones personal beliefs have nothing to do with Ron Paul and for you to judge Ron Paul based on what Alex believes is stupid of this community! YOu guys link Alex Jones to 9/11 retard conspiracy's which is infact what the man believes, but is not the mans life! It is but of one portion! Alex Jones weather you like him or not agree with him or dont is a man who believes in civil liberties, the constitution, the bill of rights and all the ideals Ron Paul stands for! Here is a quote from his page infowars: "As featured in such publications as The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, The Dallas Morning News, The Los Angeles Times, The Austin-American Statesman, and The Austin Chronicle, Alex Jones has created a powerful platform in an attempt to re-create a Bill of Rights, freedom-orientated culture in the face of an ever more federalized and security-obsessed America." Ron Paul believes in liberty for all, and not liberty for everyone except those who believe in stupid conspiracy theories. Or those that the James Randi Educational Foundation might find as far fetched! FREEDOM FOR ALL!!! Like i said you guys would rather appear good to the majority then to actually be good to everyone! Ron Paul will not turn away from anyone who believes his message no matter how bad they might look to everyone else!!!
OneShotKi11 Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 635	Last edited by OneShotKi11; 22nd November 2007 at 12:41 PM.

22nd November 2007, 03:18 PM	#23
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,902	Originally Posted by OneShotKi11 Get it through all your heads already Ron Paul courts to everyone and not anyone!!! He treats everyone the same and wont disregard you because of your dam beliefs. The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind! What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)! Most of you will never understand because your to involved with trying to appear politically correct instead of actually being politically correct! Alex Jones is a man! Let us concede, for the sake of argument, that Alex Jones is a man, and per se not unworthy of Ron Paul's attention. While I applaud your egalitarian sympathies, I would point out that at the last count your great and free republic had a population of around three hundred million, of whom around two hundred million are entitled to vote. Were Congressman Paul to spend a mere fifteen minutes discussing his ideas with each of the elctorate, working twenty-four hours a day, every day, then his task would be complete sometime in the seventy-eighth century Anno Domini. It follows that the good Congressman is obliged to be rather selective in his choice of interlocutors, and so one has to wonder at his judgement in lavishing so much of his time on a freakin' grade-A loon from Cuckooville.

22nd November 2007, 07:53 PM	#24
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 9,302	That's it. Between this and Ron Paul's vowed opposition to alleged "secularism", I can't see myself voting for him.
	__________________ Nuclear energy is GREEN energy.

22nd November 2007, 08:42 PM	#25
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84	Originally Posted by OneShotKi11 YOu guys link Alex Jones to 9/11 retard conspiracy's which is infact what the man believes, but is not the mans life! It is but of one portion! Yes and the other portions are taken up with Luceferian, Moloch worshiping, federal reserve using, Child sacrificing masons. Quote: Alex Jones weather you like him or not agree with him or don't is a man who believes in civil liberties, the constitution, the bill of rights and all the ideals Ron Paul stands for! Except for the part of the Constitution that authorizes an income tax.
jezcoe Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 84

23rd November 2007, 12:24 AM	#26
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 4,115	Originally Posted by OneShotKi11 What kind of hypocrite would Ron Paul be if he stated he believed all these things (Liberties) but then refused to appear on someones show because of what they believed (Conspiracy's)! So... anyone not appearing on Alex Jones's show is violating his civil liberties?
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

23rd November 2007, 12:56 AM	#27
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,109	Originally Posted by OneShotKi11 The man believes in civil liberties and god given rights with equality and that everyman has been given the right to free speech and expression of ones mind! If he believes in civil liberties and rights and equality then he should not be accepting the support of people who believe in denying the civil liberties of others.