I think I had a "prophetic" dream!

[TruthSeeker]

Last night I had a dream that one of my children (I have no children) was being cremated.

This afternoon, I got a call from my parents saying that my pet rabbit (who lives with them in the country rather than with me in the city. Long story) had died and that they had taken him to the vets to be cremated.

I am not a woo woo believer but this kind of creeped me out.

I'm also sad I lost my bunny. He was 12 years old and we all assume he just died of old age.

[ImpyTimpy]

Well, I had a prophetic dream not too long ago. I dreamt that there was a big explosion and I got wounded and had to go to a hospital.. More details followed, blah blah.. When I woke up I found out that there was an explosion in Israel that killed a few people in a cafe.



Spooky?



Nope. Because I simply matched up the details after the event. The dream itself, when I recall it, had very little to do with the bombing, but it's not hard to make the connections when I try. Couple that with the amount of dreams I have already had and this looks like nothing but a coincidence.

So, bottom line is, please note you dream a lot and out of all your dreams you finally have a prediction. Shouldn't you predict things more often?

Second of all, please note the dream didn't really match up the details. You dreamt about children, you heard the pet died. Cremation or burial are the two only possible way of disposing the body. I'd say you're the "cremation" type to begin with.

You simply matched up the details after the event and filled in the gaps to suit. The dream was just a random event, nothing more, heck the details didn't even match up properly

[Yahweh]

For a while, I've been having a recurring dream: My cats walk up to me, they begin speaking in unison (in a deep "human-y" voice), they say "To make your infrastructure grow big choose the potion red, to grow small choose green instead".

What does it mean?

[espritch]

Sorry about your bunny. These things happen.

[athon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
For a while, I've been having a recurring dream: My cats walk up to me, they begin speaking in unison (in a deep "human-y" voice), they say "To make your infrastructure grow big choose the potion red, to grow small choose green instead".

What does it mean?

It means eating salami and pickled fish before going to bed at night is not a smart thing to do.

Athon

[RCNelson]

Quote:

Yahweh:
For a while, I've been having a recurring dream: My cats walk up to me, they begin speaking in unison (in a deep "human-y" voice), they say "To make your infrastructure grow big choose the potion red, to grow small choose green instead".

What does it mean?

That's the trouble with cats - they always speak in riddles.

A dog would have simply told you the meaning straight and plain.

[fishbait]

I once took a handful of NoDoze and then drank half a bottle of NyQuill and had a dream that I couldn't fall asleep.

Spooky!

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Last night I had a dream that one of my children (I have no children) was being cremated.

This afternoon, I got a call from my parents saying that my pet rabbit (who lives with them in the country rather than with me in the city. Long story) had died and that they had taken him to the vets to be cremated.

I am not a woo woo believer but this kind of creeped me out.

I'm also sad I lost my bunny. He was 12 years old and we all assume he just died of old age.

From anecdotes it has been estimated that approximately 60% of ESP experiences occur during dreams. Of these about 1/3 are symbolic in nature.

Now it certainly could have been coincidence, or it could have been ESP. Difficult to say without further information from you.

Basically we find that in ESP dreams the dreamer feels very strongly that this was not just a normal dream. They kinda intuitively sense that the dream was special, that it was characteristically unlike normal dreams. So the question here is did you feel the dream was special in this sense? If yes then it is extremely likely it was ESP.

[Jeff Corey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
For a while, I've been having a recurring dream: My cats walk up to me, they begin speaking in unison (in a deep "human-y" voice), they say "To make your infrastructure grow big choose the potion red, to grow small choose green instead".

What does it mean?

You are getting pop-up dreams from a phallus enlarger (or shrinker - remember Deep Throat) company.
Disconnect you ethernet while sleeping.

[espritch]

Quote:

From anecdotes it has been estimated that approximately 60% of ESP experiences occur during dreams.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh wait...sorry. Was that not meant to be a joke?

[Jeff Corey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


From anecdotes it has been estimated that approximately 60% of ESP experiences occur during dreams. Of these about 1/3 are symbolic in nature.

Now it certainly could have been coincidence, or it could have been ESP. Difficult to say without further information from you.

Basically we find that in ESP dreams the dreamer feels very strongly that this was not just a normal dream. They kinda intuitively sense that the dream was special, that it was characteristically unlike normal dreams. So the question here is did you feel the dream was special in this sense? If yes then it is extremely likely it was ESP.

Not true. In an exhaustive study of anecdotes it was found that 88.3 percent of them were derived from the fertile imaginations of the anecdoters, which were fertile because of the liberal application of B S.
Also, you seem to lack a sense that a number of other humans have.
Irony detector for Ian, anyone? At the least, a sarcasm sense. Let alone a pantomime horse or the Queen Mother.

[ImpyTimpy]

Umm..

Actually Ian makes an interesting point.. One that is easily refuted without resorting to name calling or sarcasm. When did the feeling that the dream was special come into play? Before or after the event...

Answer that and you've refuted the anecdotal argument.

[Jeff Corey]

Quote:

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Umm..

Actually Ian makes an interesting point.. One that is easily refuted without resorting to name calling or sarcasm. When did the feeling that the dream was special come into play? Before or after the event...

Answer that and you've refuted the anecdotal argument.

Show me the name calling or sarcasm. I don't indulge in the former on this board and the latter probably escapes you.

Edited to say that I used to, but I got better.
And I can crawl again!

[TruthSeeker]

Quote:

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy

You simply matched up the details after the event and filled in the gaps to suit. The dream was just a random event, nothing more, heck the details didn't even match up properly

You are correct of course. I think it was the grief talking I wonder if JE could pick up any messages from my bunny?

[TruthSeeker]

Quote:

Originally posted by espritch
Sorry about your bunny. These things happen.

Thank you.


I have to wait 60 seconds to post this. I'll get some 7Up.

[TruthSeeker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


So the question here is did you feel the dream was special in this sense? If yes then it is extremely likely it was ESP.

No, it was not special.

I didn't really even think about it much until after I heard. I did tell my partner about it before I heard of bunny's demise, so I know I didn't just "create" it afterward.

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker


No, it was not special.

In that case it was most probably just coincidence.

As I say, precognitive dreams have an unmistakable certain characteristic quality.

[Yahweh]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


From anecdotes it has been estimated that approximately 60% of ESP experiences occur during dreams. Of these about 1/3 are symbolic in nature.

Now it certainly could have been coincidence, or it could have been ESP. Difficult to say without further information from you.

Basically we find that in ESP dreams the dreamer feels very strongly that this was not just a normal dream. They kinda intuitively sense that the dream was special, that it was characteristically unlike normal dreams. So the question here is did you feel the dream was special in this sense? If yes then it is extremely likely it was ESP.

I fully realize that logical reasoning is not an absolute law which governs the universe, but I honestly dont believe in ESP because it would violate the Law of Causality (oh, and I dont believe in anything paranormal).

To suggest a dream is precognitive is a bit "unusual". Its simply finding vague "characteristics in common" between real life and dreams. Not worth any more than seeing faces in the clouds.

[ImpyTimpy]

Well, the following is written by you:

Quote:

Not true. In an exhaustive study of anecdotes it was found that 88.3 percent of them were derived from the fertile imaginations of the anecdoters, which were fertile because of the liberal application of B S.
Also, you seem to lack a sense that a number of other humans have.
Irony detector for Ian, anyone? At the least, a sarcasm sense. Let alone a pantomime horse or the Queen Mother.

You're right though, these aren't specific examples of being sarcastic or using name-calling. They're more examples of talking sh*t in order to disprove someone's point. I simply labelled them under something cleaner - name calling and sarcasm. Since you insist on the correct label, I shall do so.

You answered by talking out of your a** sir. There was no need for it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

Show me the name calling or sarcasm. I don't indulge in the former on this board and the latter probably escapes you.

Edited to say that I used to, but I got better.
And I can crawl again!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

I fully realize that logical reasoning is not an absolute law which governs the universe, but I honestly dont believe in ESP because it would violate the Law of Causality (oh, and I dont believe in anything paranormal).

ESP dreams do not violate causality.

Many is the time when I dreamed I had to pee, and when I woke up I really did have to pee.

Where's my million dollars?

[Yahweh]

Quote:

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
ESP dreams do not violate causality.

Many is the time when I dreamed I had to pee, and when I woke up I really did have to pee.

Where's my million dollars?

If you have a dream about your million, you'll know where to find it ...

Note to all: If you plan on having precognitions, do something constructive and dream about the lottery...

[Jeff Corey]

Quote:

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Well, the following is written by you:



You're right though, these aren't specific examples of being sarcastic or using name-calling. They're more examples of talking sh*t in order to disprove someone's point. I simply labelled them under something cleaner - name calling and sarcasm. Since you insist on the correct label, I shall do so.

You answered by talking out of your a** sir. There was no need for it.

Actually, squire, that was an example of a lampoon, or possibly, a parody. And I was typing, not talking out of any orifice.

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

I fully realize that logical reasoning is not an absolute law which governs the universe, but I honestly dont believe in ESP because it would violate the Law of Causality (oh, and I dont believe in anything paranormal).

To suggest a dream is precognitive is a bit "unusual". Its simply finding vague "characteristics in common" between real life and dreams. Not worth any more than seeing faces in the clouds.

To address your second paragraph first, I find this hypothesis implausible, especially as alleged precognitive dreams are so characteristically unlike normal dreams.

Now, precognitive dreams violate the law of causality? Could you describe this law? I'm not sure if I'm acquanited with it. In addition, how do we know it is correct?

Of possible relevance here is to point out that Louisa Rhine conducted an analysis of 191 carefully selected precognitive cases to determine if the ESP rcipient was able to affect the foreseen outcome. In almost 70% (131) of the cases, they were able to take action to avoid the undesirable event.

One of those 131 cases involved a streetcar operator in Los Angeles. He dreamed one night he was operating a tram through a busy intersection. A big, red truck, making an illegal turn, was unable to see his tram because another passing streetcar blocked his view. In the following crash, two men in the car died and a woman passenger was injured. In his dream, the injured woman, who had large blue eyes, repeatedly shouted at him, "You could have avoided this". He awoke sweating and scared, but managed to put the dream out of his mind. That day, as he pulled up to the intersection, he suddenly felt sick to his stomach. When he saw the other streetcar appear, the dream came back to him. He cut the engine and applied the brakes just-in-time -a small truck with bright red advertising on the side barreled through the intersection. Three people were in the truck, as his ESP dream had foretold: two men and a woman with blue eyes. As they passed by the streetcar motorman, the startled woman gave him an "A-OK" sign with her thumb and forefinger, thanking him for stopping. The motorman was so upset he had to be taken off the job.

(From the L.E. Rhine Collection of Spontaneous Psi Experiences, Institute for Parapsychology, Durham, N.C.)

What I'm wondering is why the woman in the precognitive dream kept saying "you could have avoided this". I presume not because she knew he had had a precognitive dream! Er . . no . .not had a precognitive dream since that was the precogitive dream that she was saying it in!

[max]

I agree with Ian on this, having had a few pregognitive dreams. These dreams are totally different from normal dreams in that they are brightly lit, a light that we don't experience in our daily lives. They are imprinted on the brain ever after.....i.e. the streetcar driver will never forget the exact details of his dream. Time does not fade them one iota. They do not occur all the time and probably couldn't. My belief is that, in some cases, this type of dream is sent 'out' to millions so as to at least be picked up by someone who will act upon the information. It maybe that Truthseeker will one day have kids and indeed cremate one, who knows at this stage.
My daughter very seldom can recall dreams but one night she dreamt that someone pushed her over a balastrade at her workplace. Two days later some dreadful scene happened at work entailing her running up the stairs to an office. The person after her tried to pull her back but couldn't and got in the room first. She tried as hard as she could to pull the door open and then remembering her dream she stepped sideways, the door burst open and it would indeed have pushed her over the bannister and to a drop of some 10meters inevitably to terrible injury or even death. She was so concerned with the dream she rang me the morning after to tell me about it, which was a day before the event. So she didn't match the dream to the event afterwards.

[Thanz]

Quote:

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
So, bottom line is, please note you dream a lot and out of all your dreams you finally have a prediction. Shouldn't you predict things more often?

This is one of my largest pet peeves regarding skeptical analysis of paranormal phenomena - the idea that if something paranormal happens, it should either be repeatable on demand or happen with a some high level of frequency. Why is this assumption being made? Why is it hard to accept that something "paranormal" may happen, but only happen once or twice in someone's lifetime?

I know that this makes proving anything paranormal extremely difficult, if not impossible. But the fact that something only happens once or twice is not an argument that it didn't happen at all.

In my own life, I have had two instances of strange telephone precognition - the phone rang, and there was unexpected bad news. In both cases I knew what it was as soon as the phone rang. I don't know if it was just coincidence, or if I am only remembering the "hits" and not the "misses", but to argue that I should know more often what the message is when the phone rings is, IMO, a stupid argument.

[Starrman]

Quote:

Why is it hard to accept that something "paranormal" may happen, but only happen once or twice in someone's lifetime?

Because if it can be explained in earthly terms, why bring paranormal into the discussion at all? There are literally billions of dreams being had every night, it would be paranormal (read - not normal) if some of them did not turn out to come true.

Quote:

I know that this makes proving anything paranormal extremely difficult, if not impossible. But the fact that something only happens once or twice is not an argument that it didn't happen at all.

I would never say it didn't happen, but it better be pretty spectacular before we say it couldn't happen by chance or some earthly means.

Quote:

In my own life, I have had two instances of strange telephone precognition - the phone rang, and there was unexpected bad news. In both cases I knew what it was as soon as the phone rang. I don't know if it was just coincidence, or if I am only remembering the "hits" and not the "misses", but to argue that I should know more often what the message is when the phone rings is, IMO, a stupid argument.

I agree - but if you can't rule out the other possibilities you mentioned, then it is pretty stupid to say you had a psychic, paranormal experience (which I realize that you did not do). Again, billions of phone calls made and received every day, it would be very weird if someone's 'gut feel' didn't occasionally sync up with the news that was coming from the other end.

So, If you're right, then the paranormal exists but is indistinguishable from the normal - so where are we then?

[Cleon]

Quote:

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
I'm also sad I lost my bunny. He was 12 years old and we all assume he just died of old age.

Awww....

I'm sorry about the bunny. I have two little furballs of my own, a lop named Spike and a Dutch named Chainsaw. They're both about 3. They're my babies--VERY affectionate little furries.

12 is like 150 in bunny years...Most live to be around 8 or so. I guess you should be thankful you got to spend 12 good years with him.

[TruthSeeker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon



Awww....

I'm sorry about the bunny. I have two little furballs of my own, a lop named Spike and a Dutch named Chainsaw. They're both about 3. They're my babies--VERY affectionate little furries.

12 is like 150 in bunny years...Most live to be around 8 or so. I guess you should be thankful you got to spend 12 good years with him.

Thanks.

People were always amazed at his age and his excellent health right up to the end.

Your little furballs sound lovely. Give them a cuddle for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Starrman
[b]

Because if it can be explained in earthly terms, why bring paranormal into the discussion at all? There are literally billions of dreams being had every night, it would be paranormal (read - not normal) if some of them did not turn out to come true.

Right, so it doesn't matter how improbable such "earthly" explanations are? They must always take precedence over . . er . . "non-earthly" explanations, even where such non-earthly explanations appears to be wholly consonant with the evidence??

Hmmmmm . . most interesting . . .

BTW you've ignored my point that alleged precognitive dreams are characteristically quite unlike normal dreams.

[Thanz]

Quote:

Originally posted by Starrman

Because if it can be explained in earthly terms, why bring paranormal into the discussion at all?

I can basically agree with this. However, I am speaking more of things that do not have a handy earthly explanation, other than just "chance". I am not talking about the cat that turns on the tv - but rather about those things that make you really scratch your head and think "WTF just happened to me?"

Quote:

There are literally billions of dreams being had every night, it would be paranormal (read - not normal) if some of them did not turn out to come true.

I am not sure that I agree with this. Each dream is an individual event, and I don't know if aggragating them like this is useful. If a specific dream comes true very specifically, then that is a different character than the dream symbolism that could be present in the child/bunny thing.

Look at it this way - there are lots of books and stories being written all the time throughout history. Don't you think it would be paranormal if one of them actually did come true?

Quote:

I would never say it didn't happen, but it better be pretty spectacular before we say it couldn't happen by chance or some earthly means.

Some do seem to argue this, however. The call of "Oh yeah? do it again - but do it in a lab." happens a lot. Not all things are capable of being tested, however. When confronted with this, some conclude that the phenomenon does not exist. And I would agree if forced to pick between existence and non-existence. But it seems to me that at this point some people close their mind to the possibility of it existing, and it is that which I disagree with.

Quote:

I agree - but if you can't rule out the other possibilities you mentioned, then it is pretty stupid to say you had a psychic, paranormal experience (which I realize that you did not do). Again, billions of phone calls made and received every day, it would be very weird if someone's 'gut feel' didn't occasionally sync up with the news that was coming from the other end.

So, If you're right, then the paranormal exists but is indistinguishable from the normal - so where are we then?

I have no idea how I would rule out the other possibilities - that is the problem. How can I know that it was not just a coincidence? How can I know that I am forgetting the "misses" - by definition, I have forgotten them. But what I do know is that it was really ****** weird. So much so that it sticks out in my mind.

As for not being able to distinguish it - well, I don't know where we are. We can't say that something is definitely "paranormal". We can say that some stuff is really ***** weird. Does this advance sicence? Not so much. But it is interesting.

[plindboe]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
...When he saw the other streetcar appear, the dream came back to him. He cut the engine and applied the brakes just-in-time -a small truck with bright red advertising on the side barreled through the intersection. Three people were in the truck, as his ESP dream had foretold: two men and a woman with blue eyes. As they passed by the streetcar motorman, the startled woman gave him an "A-OK" sign with her thumb and forefinger, thanking him for stopping. The motorman was so upset he had to be taken off the job.

If the truck barreled through the intersection as you say, how was he able to establish that she did indeed have blue eyes?

[Ipecac]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
BTW you've ignored my point that alleged precognitive dreams are characteristically quite unlike normal dreams.

Anecdotal. Can you objectively quantify that they were "unlike normal dreams"?

We all have dreams that are more vivid than others. Most can't be remembered at all. There's likely a physiological explanation.

[max]

anecdotal anecdotal anecdotal seems to be the only word sceptics can come up with when they don't know the answers either.
Police were involved with two of my dreams in which criminals names were passed to me. I expect you'd call that anecdotal too

[plindboe]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
....A big, red truck, making an illegal turn, was unable to see his tram because another passing streetcar blocked his view....
....When he saw the other streetcar appear, the dream came back to him. He cut the engine and applied the brakes just-in-time -a small truck with bright red advertising on the side barreled through the intersection....

In the dream it was a big red truck, while the truck in reality it was a small truck with bright red advertizing. In other words it wasn't big or red. Just a truck.

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
The motorman was so upset he had to be taken off the job.

This implies that he was so upset because he realized the dream turned out to be true(if not, the story wouldn't have mentioned it). The more obvious reason is that he got such a shock by closely avoiding a major accident, and therefore had to be taken off the job. This clearly shows the bias of the writer of the story.

Was this the best story you could find?

[max]

Plindboe
The reaction on realising there is something out there truly sh*ts you up. Real shock I'm talking, it's very frightening. Then you have to deal with being ridiculed and being told 'anecdotal' 'anecdotal' by beings who have not a clue

[voidx]

Quote:

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


...snip...
One of those 131 cases involved a streetcar operator in Los Angeles. He dreamed one night he was operating a tram through a busy intersection. A big, red truck, making an illegal turn, was unable to see his tram because another passing streetcar blocked his view. In the following crash, two men in the car died and a woman passenger was injured. In his dream, the injured woman, who had large blue eyes, repeatedly shouted at him, "You could have avoided this". He awoke sweating and scared, but managed to put the dream out of his mind. That day, as he pulled up to the intersection, he suddenly felt sick to his stomach. When he saw the other streetcar appear, the dream came back to him. He cut the engine and applied the brakes just-in-time -a small truck with bright red advertising on the side barreled through the intersection. Three people were in the truck, as his ESP dream had foretold: two men and a woman with blue eyes. As they passed by the streetcar motorman, the startled woman gave him an "A-OK" sign with her thumb and forefinger, thanking him for stopping. The motorman was so upset he had to be taken off the job.

(From the L.E. Rhine Collection of Spontaneous Psi Experiences, Institute for Parapsychology, Durham, N.C.)
...snip...

Ok, let me get this straight. The small truck "barreled through the intersection, yet amidst this "barrelling" the streetcar driver had time to not only identify all occupants of the truck, but also to notice the color of the woman's eyes. Also amidst this "barrelling" of said truck through the intersection, the woman had time to give him the "A-OK" sign, and also to say thank you to him for stopping. Care to rephrase this story a bit? Let me guess, the only person's word we have to take for this is the streetcar drivers correct? Any other corrobarating witness'? Anyway to verifty any of these incredible details? Does the listed article give these items?

[Starrman]

Quote:

I am not sure that I agree with this. Each dream is an individual event, and I don't know if aggragating them like this is useful. If a specific dream comes true very specifically, then that is a different character than the dream symbolism that could be present in the child/bunny thing.

I don't understand your disagreement. You really don't think we should expect some dreams to come true every day, given the volume of people on earth? With 6 billion rolls of the dice a night, someone out there is going to dream they are in a car crash and then have one the next day eventually.

Quote:

Look at it this way - there are lots of books and stories being written all the time throughout history. Don't you think it would be paranormal if one of them actually did come true?

I think we have a diconnect on what both of us mean by a dream coming true. I'm talking about dreams about single events, not novels of information that must come to pass item by item. I'm talking about dreaming your dog dies, and then he does. Or dreaming your flight is delayed and then it is. Things like this are well within the laws of chance given the large sample that is the human race.

Quote:

Some do seem to argue this, however. The call of "Oh yeah? do it again - but do it in a lab." happens a lot. Not all things are capable of being tested, however. When confronted with this, some conclude that the phenomenon does not exist.

That is the correct assumption using Occam's razor. Until further evidence is presented (which may be difficult, in your theory we are discussing) there is no reason to add the additional factor of the paranormal.

Quote:

But it seems to me that at this point some people close their mind to the possibility of it existing, and it is that which I disagree with.

I try to look at even the anecdotes (sorry to use that word again, but it is what they are) with an open mind. But if it can be explained without elements of the supernatural, then there is no reason to bring that into the explanation at all.

Sorry to Max, but there is a reason skeptics and scientists don't like anectodes - because they rely on human memory and they are often difficult to verify.

Perhaps it is impossible to repeat a paranormal event in the lab, but that doesn't make the anecdotal evidence any stronger.

[Ipecac]

Quote:

Originally posted by max
Plindboe
The reaction on realising there is something out there truly sh*ts you up. Real shock I'm talking, it's very frightening. Then you have to deal with being ridiculed and being told 'anecdotal' 'anecdotal' by beings who have not a clue

Or maybe you're just wrong and all sh*t up for nothing.

[Ipecac]

Quote:

Originally posted by max
anecdotal anecdotal anecdotal seems to be the only word sceptics can come up with when they don't know the answers either.
Police were involved with two of my dreams in which criminals names were passed to me. I expect you'd call that anecdotal too

Don't know the answers? To what question? Whether or not people have vivid dreams? Whether or not people sometimes dream about something that happens?

Concluding paranormal from coincidence and relying on very fallible human perceptions (especially while dreaming) is not rational. Shall we then take your irrational conclusions as evidence?

[voidx]

Quote:

Originally posted by max
anecdotal anecdotal anecdotal seems to be the only word sceptics can come up with when they don't know the answers either.
Police were involved with two of my dreams in which criminals names were passed to me. I expect you'd call that anecdotal too

What else would you have us do? They are anecdotal, its not our fault they are, they simple are. Its not like we're not willing to consider your possibility, but it doesn't change the fact that all we have to go on in your personal account, things that are shown everyday to be highly subjective and potentially inaccurate. Its the reality of the situation I'm afraid, sorry.

Quote:

Posted by Thanz:
Some do seem to argue this, however. The call of "Oh yeah? do it again - but do it in a lab." happens a lot. Not all things are capable of being tested, however. When confronted with this, some conclude that the phenomenon does not exist. And I would agree if forced to pick between existence and non-existence. But it seems to me that at this point some people close their mind to the possibility of it existing, and it is that which I disagree with.

While I agree people do this, and shouldn't, its a hard call for people trying to be skeptical as well. Yes, perhaps its possible for some of these rare events to be authentic, and perhaps we're wrong or misunderstand what we know about the world in some cases. But for every one that might be authentic we're inundated with piles upon piles of people trying to make mountains out of molehills because well, life is a little boring sometimes. It becomes hard for us to take these seriously as they happen so rarely, and usually are lacking any significant amount of details for us to go on, or check into. People get very defensive about personal experiences that might seem to be paranormal to them, but they have to realize that we do not mean offense when we take these incidents with a large grain of salt, we have too.